If the superdelegates defy the clear will of the people

[calteacherguy]

[Webster Green]

1. I'll be out of the party and in the streets..

Enough is enough!

[msongs]

2. obama and clinton both agreed to run under party rules nt

[calteacherguy]

5. This isn't about the candidates, it's about the People. n t

[KittyWampus]

28. That's my opinion as well. Obama supporters can't want rules enforced only when it suits them

[CaptJasHook]

33. Why do you want to make this an Obama/Hillary problem?

Are you always on attack mode?

This affects all of us.

[zonmoy]

3. it will simply be one more nail in the coffin of democracy.

[MonkeyFunk]

4. What's the clear will of the people?

The most pledged delegates? The popular vote?

[calteacherguy]

7. The candidate with the most popular vote. nt

[MonkeyFunk]

9. So superdelegates from Illinois

should vote for Clinton if she gets the highest popular vote? I'm OK with that.

[calteacherguy]

12. If Obama would win the nomination if they did not vote that way

and Clinton ends up with the most votes of the people, then yes. Absolutely.

Edit: Because Michigan and Florida were not Democratic elections, they are not included in the popular vote total.

[mopinko]

17. i think that state by state, or district by district would be fine.

he cleaned her clock in illinois.

[MonkeyFunk]

18. If we go state by state

Clinton currently leads in superdelegates 242 to 171.

[CaptJasHook]

22. Fine, that is Democracy

I also like the idea of Region by Region.

[CaptJasHook]

24. Correction, the rules of Electoral Democracy up until 1972

[MonkeyFunk]

27. Who are you correcting?

And why?

[CaptJasHook]

30. Myself. Because I can be an idiot.

[CaptJasHook]

21. As long as my Oregon has a proportional amount of SD, sure.

[CaptJasHook]

8. Do you understand what Democracy means?

[MonkeyFunk]

11. Yes

What's your point?

There are various ways superdelegates could vote. They could vote for the person with the most pledged delegates. They could vote for the candidate who won their state. They could vote for the candidate with the greatest popular vote. All of those would be "democratic".

[CaptJasHook]

20. How is it that one Superdelegate counts as over 50,000 voters

An unelected Superdelegate.

40% of the primary votes at convention will be Super delegates. Appointed by Party bosses. Why? Because you and I are not smart enough to elect the "right" candidate.

I call foul

[MonkeyFunk]

26. What are you going on about?

This is about how superdelegates should or could vote.

You want to discuss the very existence of superdelegates, go start your own thread on the topic.

[CaptJasHook]

31. Read the OP

It doesn't say this thread is about could or should. The question is IF....

Thanks for policing the thread though :eyes:

It sounds like you know more about this than me (no sarcasm intended). So please justify the Super delegate system for me. I have never encountered this problem before in my time as a voter, and am shocked and dismayed.

[MonkeyFunk]

34. It's a little premature to be shocked and dismayed

People are already getting outraged over an offense that hasn't happened.

[CaptJasHook]

37. True

But if we just wait until it happens, then we will feel shocked, dismayed and impotent.

I like to feel like I can still get it on.

[Life Long Dem]

15. Pledged delegates are the will of the people. That is clear.

[MonkeyFunk]

19. The popular vote

is a more accurate reflection of the will of the people. That is clear.

[CaptJasHook]

6. I will be working hard on a Real Progressive Party

[gulliver]

10. The superdelegates probably represent more people than the primary delegates.

You can't disenfranchise all the people who don't vote in the primary by taking away the right of a superdelegate they did vote for to vote their conscience. The rules are the rules. I didn't get a chance to vote in the primary, but I count on my Dem rep and Senator to vote their conscience. That's my representation. How dare you try to disenfranchise me by saying a primary delegate who got 1/10th of my Senator and Congressman's votes should get to decide the whole thing--in violation of the rules.

People who want to change the rules in the middle of the primary only because it favors their candidate are behaving unethically, IMO, notwithstanding their democratic pose. They are actually denying representation to the millions who don't vote in the primaries while simultaneously trying to bend the race through rule-breaking.

[OHdem10]

13. You cannot be absolute. How should Kerry and Kennedy

place their Delegates. HRC won Mass.

What I am tryin to explain is you cannot be absolute about
one way. This is why Superdelagates have that status.
If put to the test they must weigh many factors.

[Crooked Moon]

14. other.

stay in the party and effect change from within. the current superdelegate structure was instituted in 1980 as a pushback against the changes made after the 68 convention that gave more voice to the people.

it's a tug of war that is ongoing and should not be seen as a sacred cow that cannot be changed.

[DJ13]

16. My problem with this issue is that no one defines the word "steal"

What if Dean and the DNC pressure a mass movement of the 414 uncommited SD's towards one candidate (without touching the existing SD's commited to either candidate) long before the convention to pressure the other candidate out against a rising tide of delegates then in one candidate's column?

Is that "stealing" if they can force one candidate to drop out before the convention?

[CaptJasHook]

23. Good point

I have been using the word "steal". It is hyperbolic, but I feel it expresses the situation well.

I would gladly use a different word if I could think of one without another cup of coffee.

[Avalux]

25. The rules are the rules. The candidates agreed to them. What's so difficult to understand?

Saying you'll leave the party because the rules won't be bent to accomodate your candidate is ridiculous.

[CaptJasHook]

32. This has nothing to do with "my" candidate

He is already gone. I am talking about "our" candidate.

The candidates may have agreed to these rules, but I had never heard much of them until this election.

The reasoning behind the creation of Super delegate system seems reactionary and patronizing to me. I didn't vote for it.

[jwirr]

29. Well I guess the pugs have finally figured out how to win in 08.

[Bullet1987]

35. The DNC could very well have a mutiny on their hands if the Superdelegates

don't go with the candidate ahead in pledged delegates...and Dean knows that. That wouldn't only be bad for the Party...it would be bad for whoever the nominee is too. A lot of people already don't like this Tammany Hall-style system to begin with...it wouldn't almost force the DNC to do away with the system to remain together and they don't want it to go that far.

[MonkeyFunk]

36. Why are pledged delegates

more important than popular vote?

[CaptJasHook]

38. K