Kerry to meet with Dean to discuss possible endorsement

[WilliamPitt]

(Headline in subject line is what appears on Boston.com)

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/president/kerry/articles/2004/03/09/kerry_complains_about_bushs_effort_for_the_nations_seniors/

Kerry complains about Bush's effort for the nation's seniors
By Mike Glover, Associated Press, 3/9/2004

CHICAGO -- John Kerry, dismissive of the nation's prescription drug law, argued on Tuesday that President Bush has offered little to help the elderly as the presumptive Democratic nominee looked to boost his wins with a four-state primary sweep.

The nomination locked up last week with the departure of chief rival John Edwards, Kerry focused on his November foe as he traveled from Florida, which joined Louisiana, Mississippi and Texas in voting Tuesday, to Illinois, site of a March 16 primary.

"It must be getting lonely for George Bush," Kerry said in an appearance with Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich. "It seems he's the last person left in America who actually believes his failed policies will ever work."

Kerry may soon get help from former rival Howard Dean, who was meeting with the nominee-in-waiting Wednesday to discuss a possible endorsement, sources said.

...more...

[frank frankly]

1. good and it will be even better to have him on CNN like Clark has been

we can't take anything for granted.

the way they've gotten away with Haiti is a bad sign...

[bigwillq]

2. Don't think Dean needs to endorse

We all know DEan is behind the Democratic nominee

[emulatorloo]

3. "Dean has been very clear he wants to be part of the team. . ."

<snip>

"Dean has been very clear he wants to be part of the team, he wants to help win," Kerry said. "John Edwards has been very clear he wants to be part of the team."

<snip>

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=694&ncid=703&e=2&u=/ap/20040309/ap_on_el_pr/kerry

[Larkspur]

29. Dean definitely wants Bush out in 2004

There has never been a question about that and Dean has always said that he would support the Dem nominee, if it wasn't him.

After Bush is gone, House Repukes and Kerry, if he lapses back into caving into Repukes, become the target. I don't see the House going Democratic in 2004. Maybe the Senate but not by much. If the Repukes remain in control of Congress for the next 2 to 4 years, I see them stifling Kerry's domestic agenda, unless it aligns with the Repukes pro-corporate agenda, and prepping Jeb Bush for 2008.

[sangh0]

4. "a possible endorsement"????

Didn't Dean promise he would support the nominee?

[bigwillq]

5. Exactly n/t

[WilliamPitt]

6. An actual, verbal endorsement carries weight

It is a story for a day.

[bigwillq]

9. Story, snory

We all know Dean will Support Kerry when he gets the nomination at the convention. Dean will also help spread the message and the vision of the DEM party. I hope Dean doesn't verbally endorse. In my opionion, Dean has already giving Kerry his support. More would be overkill.

[WilliamPitt]

15. Erm...

You're suggesting that a guy with as much juice as Dean could support the nominee 'too much'?

[sangh0]

18. "Too much support"

It reminds me of the guy I saw on TV who, when asked if he thought OJ was guilty replied "No. There's too much evidence. That's fishy"

[bigwillq]

19. I like how Dean is playing it right now

I don't want to see Dean get too mushy with Kerry cause then the media will be "Dean: Possible VP choice" and the like. I want Dean to support Kerry and help him in any way possible but let's not make this the remake of Busom Buddies now, yea'hear!?

[janx]

22. If I'm reading bigwillq's message correctly, his point is one

of timing.

Dean has always said that he would support the nominee.

[sangh0]

25. What kind of timing?

I don't understand. What does timing have to do with it?

[janx]

28. Dean knows his supporters. He also knows that it is only

March, and that a lot of them haven't even been able to cast their primary votes yet.

He respects his supporters a great deal and won't just throw the magic list to Kerry--at least not this soon. That would piss his supporters off to an unbelievable extent. It would go against everything that Dean stands for; he's not going to do it.

bigwillq's point is explained in his post below. It's similar to my thoughts on the matter in that the timing isn't right yet, yet he has other (very valid) reasons for thinking so.

[bigwillq]

30. Good point about the primary

and the "magic list". In due time.....

[janx]

33. There's going to be another problem, too.

Dean's initial success was due to his very broadly based support. He had 70-year-old independents and Republicans working with 24-year-old Greens, for instance. And so he was right when he said that all of those votes would not automatically transfer.

Even if he ever does hand over the list (and I don't know that he will), it may not do as much good as the DLC types hope because some of those supporters will vote for and support other candidates, and other supporters won't vote at all.

[bigwillq]

37. Agree-I think may post below (response to a bewildered

DUer) eludes to this.

[sangh0]

31. I still don't get it, and bw's post haven't helped

What does the primary votes have to do with this?

What's with the "magic list"? I thought we were talking about an endorsement.

Why would giving the list to Kerry piss his supporters off when Dean has already said he would be supporting the nominee?

This is not an attack. I just see you making assertions that I suspect another Dean supporter would understand, but for me, I think they need to be explained. TIA

[bigwillq]

35. Hope this helps

Some of my points that some others expressed and I agree with:

1. Kerry is the "likely" nominee
I feel if Dean gets too comfy with Kerry, Dean may possibly take too much media light away from Kerry. Dean may get the ole' "VP" selection story and the like. I don't think this will help Kerry or Dean. This shouldn't happen so I think Dean should play it safe.

2. Dean shouldn't unite with Kerry too much until all the primaries are over. Let the Dean supporters choose who they will vote for in their primary. After the primaries are over, Dean should help Kerry in any way possible.

3. Giving the "magic list" away
Dean shouldn't give Kerry his e-mai lists until after all the primaries are over.


Timing is one thing for me. Also uniting too strongly with Kerry is another. Kerry and Dean have two different strategies. Yes, Dean wants to support Kerry (or any of DEM nominees but we all know who it will be) but Dean still has some very different approcahes to all the DEM party should move. HE shouldn't back away from this. Uniting with Kerry too much may: 1. Turn off some Dean supporters.
2. Turn off too many Kerry supporters.
3. Turn off people who are still undecided.

[sangh0]

36. Thanks

that helped a great deal.

[bigwillq]

38. Glad to help

By the way who did you support for the DEM nominee? If you don't mind me asking!

[sangh0]

42. Pretty much all of the candidates, with two exceptions

but my preference has been for Kerry

[bigwillq]

43. Thanks for sharing

[janx]

40. You're right. They are two very different human beings

with vastly different approaches to politics.

[bigwillq]

46. I really hope that Dean can help Kerry

get rid of the Shrub. I think Kerry needs to have Dean involved. And Dean's supporters. What a dedicated bunch "we" are. I also hope Dean is hired when Kerry takes the White House.

[janx]

48. I doubt Dean has a place in any Kerry administration.

But that won't stop him from supporting Kerry once Kerry is the official nominee. He scared the hell out of the leaders and the DLC, as well as other D.C. Dems. (And some corporations, AND the media...)

But he will do what he must do to get Bush* out. Of all of the people in politics who want Bush* out of there, I'm convinced Dean wants him out the most badly.

I also think that he would have had a better chance of beating Chimpy. He had an enormous amount of crossover and independent support. The crossover support is gone. Some of the independent and Green support will go to Nader.

Even so, he will do all he can to get Chimpy out. He will support Kerry. There is no doubt.

[bigwillq]

49. Just a question:

What makes you think Dean would have a better chance of beating the Chimp? I thought so too before the primary results.

I still think Dean (on the issues) can face off with Chimp better than Kerry can.
Kerry has really "flipped flopped" and the even the Chimp is starting to call Kerry on this.

[janx]

52. Not only in the way he would face off with Chimpy,

but in his broad based support from people who weren't just Democrats. He had a LOT of Greens and independents as well as some Republicans backing him.

[bigwillq]

53. Do you think that would've been

enough support? There are still many even some DEMS who dislike Dean. I think vote wise Kerry could do better than Dean. I think Kerry is the safest choice for the public but issue wise for me Dean wins in a landslide. Not a knock on Kerry, I will be voting for him in the GE!

[janx]

39. It's a matter of respect, sangh0.

You can't understand that? This front-loaded primary has been an insult to a lot of American voters who want to at least believe that their votes will matter somehow--if not in the eventual nominee, then in the platform. They really do believe in an old fashioned democratic republic, one in which there is still hope even if things don't go exactly their way.

As far as the list goes, c'mon. Everybody wants it. That's a no-brainer. The list would be implicit (in the minds of some people)and included in that endorsement. I happen to think they might be deluding themselves, but hey...

Does that make sense? ;-)

[sangh0]

41. Thanks

I understand respect. What I didn't understand was some of the things you and the other poster said, so I asked some questions. The poster has since posted an explanation that helped answer my questions.

[janx]

45. You're welcome.

;-)

[KoKo]

56. NC with 16 Electoral Votes won't hold it's Primary until mid-April!

This front-loaded primary has taken away my chance to vote for whom I wanted to. It wasn't fair and it makes me angry. Our Repug Party did this to us by delaying the Primary and actually trying to cancel it.

For my Dem Party to not allow me to vote by frontloading and declaring a winner before the election is too much! It's insulting.

So while Kerry is the "presumed nominee" I still want my chance to vote for who I wanted to. I don't think that's too much to ask.

I don't want my name turned over to Kerry because I supported both Dean and Kucinich. If I give to Kerry he will have my name. Otherwise I'm not a mail list that can be passed along! :grr:

[bigwillq]

26. I think I agree with your "point" of my message

I just don't want a Dean/Kerry union to be "over"played and to take away from the main goal: Beating Shrub. Dean is doing the right thing by supporting and trying to help Kerry but Dean doesn't need overexposure, he's not running for prez no more (this from a big Dean fan). We don't want Kerry to lose support over too much Dean. If everyone wanted Dean as the nom. more people would've voted for him. Kerry and Dean need to be cool but not too cool if you know what I mean.

[littlejoe]

47. Like Gore's endorsement of Dean.

[Melinda]

7. While the terms are synonomous, I'm thinking media appearance(s)

as opposed to written endorsements. We'll see.

[emulatorloo]

8. Appearances and Campaigning ala Gen Wes Clark, IMHO

EOM

[Larkspur]

10. Here's Kerry waffling again

The actual title of the web link was Kerry complains about Bush's effort for the nation's seniors

I recall that Kerry missed the vote on the Prescription Drug/Medicare bill, the vote Kerry bragged about during the Pre-Primary race that he'd miss some days campaigning so that he could vote against that bill.

As far as Dean's endorsement of Kerry, I expect that. It's just a matter of time, but I won't be donating dollars or time to Kerry. If I donate money to Kerry for Dean's sake, it won't be until after the Convention. I don't want my money helping Kerry pay off that mortgage on his mansion.

[WilliamPitt]

16. The front page of Boston.com

had the headline about the endorsement. I copied and pasted it into my subject line.

[MaineDem]

23. You're right

It was a very large headline on the main page.

[NightNurse]

54. Smug. Self-Righteous little PRIGS

:spank:

[Exgeneral]

11. Whither Kucinich?

[sangh0]

12. At the moment, in the hospital with food poisoning

but I don't think he's going to endorse Kerry when he gets out.

DK is still in the race

[Sushi-Lover]

13. Probably trying to decide if

a formal endorsement right now would be the best thing to do. I'm sure Dean is willing to do it .. he has always said he would. Problem is it might not be the best course of action, since Dean can perhaps serve as a link bringing funds and support from people who don't like Kerry. Those people also hate Bush and want him out. They have, for whatever reason, taken an extreme dislike to Kerry (just as some have an extreme dislike of Dean). An endorsement later, after the new organization is formed, might be better in terms of giving those people a psychological out (they don't have to contribute directly to Kerry) while still harnessing money and efforts for democrats.

On the other hand, an endorsement might be the kick in the pants some people need and Dean stumping for Kerry could be pretty powerful. Lack of an endorsement might cause some people to not support Kerry. I have no idea what the best thing to do is. I can just see pluses and minuses to both endorsing now and waiting.

[janx]

20. Dean has said that he will endorse the nominee.

I doubt he'll formally endorse Kerry tomorrow though, since he knows that many of his supporters have not even been able to cast a primary vote yet. It is *only March*, you know?

Kerry is supposed to be meeting with both Edwards and Dean tomorrow. the three guys are probably meeting to initially hash some things out--and I have to admit, I imagine there's quite a lot of hashing to do.

[janx]

14. I think they changed the headline. It's different now. Also:

"Officials familiar with the discussions, speaking on condition of anonymity, said Dean was prepared to endorse Kerry, campaign on Kerry's behalf and ask his contributors to donate to the presumptive nominee. But that was contingent on the outcome of the meeting, and Kerry's willingness to help court the faction of Dean's supporters still skeptical of his commitment to reform, the officials said."

Interesting.

There's some kind of contingency involved.

[Forkboy]

17. I'd love to see Dean endorse Kerry

it will provide chuckles a plenty around here!

[polpilot]

27. He could 'endorse' him and then fall on the floor laughing................

...or Dean could arrive in a flight suit! and say things like 'war hero' 'vote to keep Americans safe' 'the right thing to do', etc.'more troops', etc. etc.

[HalfManHalfBiscuit]

32. That is the truth n/t

[Kahuna]

55. *snarf*

:hi:

[madfloridian]

21. He has said he would do what he could to help Kerry win.

He did say he would not turn over the list, that he would work it.
I have no problem whether he endorses or not. That is his decision.

I think it will cause a lot of the independents and moderate Republicans to vote for Bush then. I have seen a lot of that where we are.

Why this line of thinking from people? I don't see it, but they seemed to attracted to his fiscal conservative nature.

I saw a poll today in our area that indicates that a small majority now support civil unions for gays. Not marriage, but rights. I was surprised as our area is very fundamental in nature.

Dean should do what he needs to do about an endorsement. He does recognize that many of us will vote for Kerry, but choose to financially support chosen candidates and his new org.

[janx]

24. I doubt he'll do anything before March 18. Actually,

I think he'll endorse Kerry once Kerry is the official nominee.

[NNN0LHI]

34. Governor Dean would take a bullet to get rid of Bush

He knows as much as anybody what the stakes are in this election.

Don

[janx]

44. Yes he would. He risked taking bullets after he signed the

civil unions bill, and he would risk it again.

[NNN0LHI]

50. Just by becoming a candidate for president as Dean did increases...

...ones chances of a sudden violent death exponentially. A lot of people don't think about that. And you are probably right about the 18th too. A week or so build up just gets more free media coverage.

Don

[janx]

51. He and his family received all kinds of death threats after

he signed the civil unions bill.

That's what I was referring to. When he last ran for governor, people came from out of state to threaten him again.