Riddle me this, Hillary supporters.... if Hillary's strengths are among the working class and whites

[XemaSab]

then how is she doing so poorly in the rural areas of Washington state, which are predominantly working class and white? :shrug:

And for edification:

http://politics.nytimes.com/election-guide/2008/results/states/WA.html

[jsamuel]

1. working class has trouble with caucuses as the have a hard time getting off to caucus

In a primary they can go before or after work, absentee, and possibly early vote.

working class works on Saturdays too people

service workers work 24/7 for example

[NC_Nurse]

3. It's Saturday.

[HughMoran]

7. I was at kids travel basketball games all morning

No way I could have made it to a caucus.

[joshcryer]

11. Yes, working class should give up their only day off to go caucus for 4 hours...

...at a specified time, when they could spend 20 minutes to drop a ballot instead, any time of the day.

[quiller4]

42. for many years I took a vacation day to work the caucus

I took election day as a vacation day, too, and worked GOTV. I grew up in a family where that kind of civic engagement was expected. We are working class folks. My husband is a retired Teamster. I was SEIU.

At the caucus I attended today the vast majority were blue collar and several had taken the day off to work either for the party or their candidate. Many brought their children with them. I am quite certain that the fact that I was taken to caucuses as a child made it quite natural for me to causus as an adult. I haven't missed a caucus since 1968.

[anigbrowl]

44. Jeez Louise...

The general election only takes place every 4 years. I think that's a manageable commitment. If you can't spare that then maybe you're not that interested in politics.

This 'caucuses hurt the working class' is total BS.

[HeraldSquare212]

61. Maybe we should have caucus site at workplaces.....nt

[kerry-is-my-prez]

13. Uh - a lot of working class people work on Saturday - retail/restaurant/blue collar jobs.

White collar people work the 9-5 Mon-Fri office jobs.

[NC_Nurse]

23. I know that, most don't though.

I used to work weekends and holidays. I know how that goes.

[napi21]

22. Unfortunately not everybody has weekends off! My husband RARELY has

even one of the weekend days off, let alone both! He's had several different jobs over his lifetime from working in a steel mill, a company that made electric motors, and a meatcutter in a supermarket. The only time he ever had weekends off was a short 1 1/2 years with the co. that made electric motors. There are LOTS of jobs where people work weekends. It's he white collar crowd who almost always get them off.

[Hoof Hearted]

43. OMFG, are you really a NURSE? In what freaky universe do you get all Saturdays off?

Or perhaps you are better than those who do not? I DON"T GET IT.

[NC_Nurse]

60. Yes, I'm REALLY a nurse. Believe it or not,

lots of us have weekends off. Not everyone works in the ER or the ICU, ya know.
I have worked weekends in the past, and holidays. You can request off for days you want
too. I'm not saying nobody works weekends.

Some people work nights too. Some people have other reasons they can't get to the polls.
I suppose that the numbers may be greater than I realized as far as weekends go. The OP
did not mention anything about it though, and I would think that more people could probably make a Sat.
caucus than a weekday one. That is all. Carry on.

[IrishBloodEngHeart]

4. it is saturday

most (but not all) people have the day off

[jlake]

5. exactly.

Not everyone has the luxury of being somewhere for 2 hours to vote.
Some people would lose their jobs - or at least depend on that income to survive.
Others have no way of getting to the caucus and back in their timeframe.

[Ken Burch]

51. Oh come off it. You wouldn't be implying the caucus didn't include workers if HRC had won it.

This "It only counts when WE win" meme is something a three-year old would come up with.

A LOT of workers showed up at that caucus. And a lot of them backed Obama, at least as many as backed HRC. Obama is not a yuppie candidate and it's time to give the lies a rest.

[jlake]

53. No. I don't support caucuses period.

And yes, Obama is a yuppie candidate - just look at the fucking exit polls.
No one besides the wealthy and dumb can afford to bet their future on "hope"

[Ken Burch]

55. Louisiana proves Obama can win primaries too.

Don't be surprised if he takes Ohio, and maybe even Texas. HRC isn't a lock either place.

And if Obama was a yuppie candidate, the Restaurant Workers would never have backed him in Nevada.

The candidate who was part of the NAFTA administration has no particular claim to the votes of workers.

[jlake]

56. This is not about my dislike for Obama. Yes, Obama can win primaries - and that is a fair win.

I am NOT trying to keep him from winning - just pointing out that caucuses are not fair.

And those Restaurant workers may have endorsed Obama - but they voted for Hillary.

[Ken Burch]

58. Would you be saying that if YOUR candidate was winning them?

(Remember, in 1988, nobody implied that anybody's primary season victory's weren't real EXCEPT for Jesse Jackson's landslide in the Michigan caucuses. Gee, wonder why they said that one, and that one alone didn't count...hmm?)

The truth is, Obama is at equal strength with HRC AND GAINING, so you guys are no longer entitled to treat Obama and his supporters as upstarts who should "remember their place". Your candidate never was automatically entitled to the nom.

[jlake]

59. Yes I would be saying that.

[HughMoran]

6. Yeah, is that why the caucuses are so tilted toward Obama?

I'm not sure how this is fair if many voters who can't get out for a few hours are disenfranchised.

[nonconformist]

57. 75% of Obama's wins have been in caucuses or open primaries

while 75% of Clinton's wins have been in closed or semi-open primaries.

When only Democrats can just go and VOTE, they vote for Hillary Clinton.

[IrishBloodEngHeart]

2. Furthermore, why did it take her til February until she started

raising money among small doners and the internet? Why did she only go after fat cat donors until this week?

[marlakay]

8. Look I am white and in WA

and many women in my caucus including me went for Obama and we talked about it. We think Obama is more for women than Hillary. He is the future and she is the past.

We have read his books and saw what kind of person he is, what kind of father. We aren't voting on Bill's wife, or for a woman, we are voting on a person we believe in.

[K Gardner]

10. Thank you Marlakay !

[XemaSab]

18. Hey, I'm a white woman for Obama too...

:D

[DB1]

28. Thank you. Snohomish county is pretty darn white and very OBAMA.

[XemaSab]

36. It's also really poor

:(

[rufus dog]

50. Very well written!

You took a lot of time to come to your decision. I almost makes me tear up, well it did! Very well written!

[WCGreen]

9. how come only about 40k will show up to represent the whole state...

Not everyone is as committed as you or I to spend the time and effort to attend a caucus...

I'm just saying I do not like the caucus system...

It surely is better than the way it was but a primary is the one true way to select candidates...

[joshcryer]

14. That's less than 1%, too. Truly representative of Washington State.

:sarcasm:

[quiller4]

31. closer to 200,000 showed up across the state

I live in a very blue collar district. We overflowed a community college gym. We didn't just vote. We raised money for the party and met candidates for local office. Nearly 50% of the Dems in my precinct showed up. That is more than usually vote in an off-year election. Our precinct's votes reflect the statewide results. We elected 8 Obama delegates to the county convention and 4 Clinton delegates.

[WCGreen]

41. I would still rather see a primary....

And that is great if you got that many folks to come out in your precinct...

But there are about 3.3 million registered voters in your state...

I would have to guess that about a third, a low guess, are registered democrats...

That means that about 20% of registered democrats bothered to show up for a caucus, if you are correct in claiming close to 200,000...

CNN is saying there were only about 32k delegates who showed up to select delegates for the convention...

If that is the case, then a little over 3% of the democrats in Washington State bothered to show up...

Better than the smoke filled rooms of yore, and yet still very very unrepresentative, especially for a competative race...

[eridani]

54. Only if you like money and MSM decisions determining the outcome

States with caucus systems have far stronger political parties, with lots of worker bee recruits to counterbalance the money whore act.

[TwilightGardener]

12. I'm baffled by the "it's a caucus" thing, to dismiss Obama's wins.

Turnout is high EVERYWHERE. If caucusing is so much trouble for Hillary voters, who actually tend to be older/retired white women (saw that myself today at my caucus), why aren't they too much trouble for Obama's black voters, and younger voters (who work, I guarantee you)?

[joshcryer]

15. Less than 1% of a state population is "high turnout"?

The primaries of the country had turnouts of millions of people!

[TwilightGardener]

21. Yep, high turnout for caucuses. The voters who care. If you want to

make the argument that Hillary depends mostly on voters that press the lever because it has a familiar brand name, rather than folks who are educated and tuned in the process, then I suppose you can. Caucuses aren't held all day long, they're limited, you have to be motivated to go. I saw a lot of motivated Dems today in Nebraska--many who were little old white ladies and middle-aged ladies who were for Hillary. And I saw a mix of mostly middle-class/working-class-looking people, farm people, voting for Obama--some elderly, some young--none of whom looked like "latte-sipping liberals". Trying to say that caucuses give an unfair advantage to Obama is ridiculous.

[jenmito]

16. If she loses LA, which is NOT a caucus, what will the excuse be?

Seems like they have an excuse for everything!

[Straight Shooter]

20. It's a wonder anyone in Louisiana voted, considering how the U.S. govt. screwed them over. n/t

[TwilightGardener]

24. Well, then, caucuses are AWESOME!!! And fair!!

[Fresh_Start]

17. lots of parents are doing sports or debate or dance

or music with their children on Saturday

[jenmito]

19. Yup...including Obama supporters.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

25. More of the older crowd goes for Clinton - younger for Obama.

n/t

[jenmito]

30. Yup. And younger people have to work. Older people are retired.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

33. I'm talking about baby boomers & 40-65. We aren't retired yet...

n/t

[quiller4]

35. while it is true that 2 Clinton delegates were 75+ one of the

Obama delegates we elected will be 80 on his next birthday. The age range at my caucus was 22-91. Obama won in every age group and every ethnic group. One of our Obama delegates is Korean American. Another is a Cuban American. Three are Black and three are white. That is quite reflective of the racial makeup of the district.

[Fresh_Start]

26. Well after doing two hours of volunteer work this AM

and three hours of shepharding a groups of boys to do their community service this afternoon, I would not take the time to go to a caucus.

[jenmito]

29. And you think Obama supporters don't have similar stories?

[Fresh_Start]

32. since there are a lot more of them under 30....NO

because they're not old enough to be chasing after three children in middle and high school.

[Bonobo]

27. It's not true, XemaSab. I tried to explain my area at least, it is definitely NOT true.

Hillary won in the conservative towns here in Western Mass and she won clearly among the Progressive towns.
The contrast was stark and the meaning was clear.

It's even true in Jewish Congregations.

Hillary wins in the conservative ones, Obama in the progressive ones. (I'm going to start a thread on that one too!)

[XemaSab]

37. I'm not sure that's true either

Washington state has some very conservative rural areas.

[milkyway]

34. Conditions have to be just right for Hillary to win a state--no caucus, not too black, not too white

not too rich, not too poor, near an ocean or near Arkansas.

[XemaSab]

38. Not too urban, not too rural....

:P

[OHdem10]

39. She decided that Obama would do well there and she is using

her resources in other places.

In Missouri for example where it was so darn tight, Hilary
swept with Blue Collar, Working Class MiddleClass and RURAL.
Primary.

[XemaSab]

40. Funny you should say this...

You think she'd do the same in the general election? :shrug:

[goodgd_yall]

45. Washington is like no other

Is all I can say. Maybe it was the news that Obama once said something about decriminalizing marijuana (although he hasn't said it in his campaign) that got the Washingtonians so supportive.

[Enrique]

46. that graphic doesn't support your assertion

[goodgd_yall]

48. You're right

The county she won in has about 19% Latino population. There's a good chance they may have helped her win in Douglas County.

[goodgd_yall]

47. She does as well as Obama does with whites.

Isn't the white vote usually split 50-50 between them? I haven't heard or read anything that says she does better among white voters.

[WA98070]

49. I thought Hilary does well with retirees. Most of my precinct was over 50.

[bridgit]

52. her 'strengths' aren't with the "working class and whites" she carried much via the latino vote...

but it is a multi-cultural world in either event, and it's time for many to get used to it

[ElsewheresDaughter]

62. Washington has an OPEN CAUCUS & Primary a poor indicator of reality in the GE