Caucuses don't matter.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

There is nothing in a caucus that tells us what the voters of a state will likely do on election day. They are not representative, they are not confidential and they bear no resemblance to a real election. They are useless and will be obsolete soon.

[LostinVA]

1. I think caucuses are biased against working class people

Working class people are less likely to be able to afford the time off from work necessary to caucus, and more likely to have to work on weekends.

[jakem]

2. hmm. seems they do matter for now!

[LostinVA]

60. WTF does that have to do with my post?

[jakem]

65. take a fucking chill dude.

i am sure you would never ever hit reply to the post below the one you intended.

no, you are too good for that.


$%&$%!

[LostinVA]

67. I'm not a dude, and I have no clue what you are talking about in the body of your post

Please explain:

"
i am sure you would never ever hit reply to the post below the one you intended.

no, you are too good for that.


$%&$%!"

[Proud2BAmurkin]

3. notoriously

[Maddy McCall]

16. Yes.

[LostinVA]

70. Of course, in the last week, I've also learned on DU

that people vote for Hillary because they're uneducated, which apparently means stupid.

So I'm not surprised some people don't care about the working class.

[stahbrett]

23. Some caucuses allow for absentee voting, including Maine's caucuses today (n/t)

[joshcryer]

46. Most caucuses only allow for that for military or very disabled people.

You have to "show" how you could *not have possibly gone*. They expect you to give up a part of your life for a 3-4 hour window to go caucus. It's not fair.

[stahbrett]

53. I'm not a huge fan of them, but haven't we had them for a LONG time?

It's not like Obama's campaign came up with the concept of caucuses for this presidential election.

My personal preference would be to use something like "instant runoff voting" or "approval voting", with a primary election system that gave people 2-3 days to vote.

[LostinVA]

59. We've also had the electoral college for a long time

Doesn't mean I think it's a good system. I don't think caucuses or the Electoral college are democratic.

[stahbrett]

62. They are not ideal, but it hasn't seemed to be a big deal for many people until now (n/t)

[CalGator]

26. with HRC that is a self-fulfilling prophecy

attempting to suppress worker turnout in Las Vegas by trying to shut down voting on the strip for union service workers. yep, HRC really cares about workers not being able to caucus.







:sarcasm:

[cali]

39. Hmm. one working class/poor town in Maine after another

going for Obama. And I know those towns. Believe me, in Houlton Maine there's nothing but working class and poor. They had a big turn out and that goes for a lot of the towns in Maine.

[joshcryer]

48. Some working class are politically inclined, this cannot be said for all of them.

[LostinVA]

57. Did that post say working class people don't care about politics?

I have them on ignore. Obviously, for a good reason.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

54. Tell that to the Mainers falling out in droves.

Including in blue-collar backwoods hick nobody places. It's pretty cool. :)

[LostinVA]

56. Like I said, many people may not be ABLE to AFFORD taking off work

It's a truth that you may understand when you don't have everything paid for by your parents.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

63. It's a Sunday, so fairly a lot of people aren't working.

You also can caucus absentee in Maine without needing a particular excuse, which I know some have done. I think these caucuses, at least, have gone quite well. I'm just glad people are showing up and making their voices heard, whether it's primary or caucus.

[LostinVA]

66. Yes -- but that doesn't hold true for every caucus state

[democrattotheend]

58. Many states require time off to vote, including WA

Wonder if HRC mentioned that to the three nurses who said they couldn't caucus for her.

Here is a state by state breakdown of the rules:

http://www.inc.com/news/articles/200611/employees.html

[LostinVA]

64. In many states, it's unpaid time off

Someone who lives paycheck to paycheck will not be able to afford unpaid time off to caucus. The time off allowed may also not be enough time to caucus.

My point stands.

[NightWatcher]

4. I'd be saying that they didnt matter if I were losing them too

[SoFlaJet]

17. NW-I really think this guy (p2ba) is

a republican operative here to stir things up and cause division among us REAL democrats-sorry, it's just the way I see it now-we never had this kind of divisiveness between us until these kind of posters started flaming the site here at DU

[newmajority]

51. I think that's true of most of the professional Hillbots online and on the radio

I actually went to my caucus yesterday, prepared to deal with militant Hillbots getting in my face. Oddly enough, there weren't any. No heated arguments, no blood on the floor. Just a bunch of neighbors who might have some differing ideas about moving forward, or taking the bridge back to the end of the 20th century.

[SoFlaJet]

52. these people are NOT our enemies

these Clinton supporters who come here and defend their candidate-the enemy is clever-is a wolf in sheep's clothing they are republican operatives-they are NOT DEMOCRATS-people like the guy that started this thread

[Bongo Prophet]

74. Yes, people are often nicer face to face, and in the "real world" - fortunately.

You can do your part in making GDP more friendly too - try to drop the Hillbot name calling, and deal with the real.

We are all democrats here, except for the mischief makers.
I am glad you had a good experience at the caucus.
Finally, Texas will actually matter, so we will get both candidates in here for the first time since 1992.
I am pretty happy about that!

[Orangepeel]

5. Ha! They sure as hell matter in the delegate count.

You are correct that caucuses don't tell us how the electorate of a state will vote in November, but neither do primaries.

[BluegrassDem]

6. Funny, you never said this after Nevada?

I didn't see you come on here and say that after Hillary won Nevada? Now they don't count when Obama is winning? Gimme a fucking break.

[Occam Bandage]

7. Translation: I'm pissed that HRC's ground game is shit.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

9. Actually Nevada made provisions for some working people so the same criticism

didn't apply to the same extent

[Occam Bandage]

18. Right, HRC's crap ground game wasn't as big a problem there. She didn't think

she'd have to invest the time and funding required to build that infrastructure; she thought she'd have it wrapped up by now.

[Yael]

8. Lets just make them obsolete now!!

Throw out all of the caucus state delegates and just run with primary states. w00t!!

:freak:

[Proud2BAmurkin]

13. They might be

[Tropics_Dude83]

20. What an outrageous thread

Completely outrageous. They've mattered for every presidential election cycle for 4-5 decades. All the candidates start their campaigns in the Iowa CAUCUSES.

As for primaries, Obama has won 9 primaries and 8 caucuses thus far I believe. It's not 16 Obama caucus victories and no primary victories.

Secondarily, on Tuesday, when HRC gets crushed in Virginia, crushed in Maryland and crushed in D.C. by double digits, will those primaries not matter either? I guess not. Obama's 8.3 million votes thus far don't count.

OUTRAGEOUS

[Proud2BAmurkin]

22. votes and primaries will matter

[MadBadger]

10. Murky Lurky Do, and Murky Lurky Dot.

[rug]

11. I wouldn't want to spend three hours in a room with Obama supporters.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Occam Bandage]

24. That's a great post.

[Buzz Clik]

14. Ah. Another complaint from the Hillary camp.

Change the system.

[SoFlaJet]

28. I just don't think these people are really

Clinton supporters Buzz-I have a sneaking suspicion that these types that we've all seen the past 2 months are here to try and divide us-I'm not gonna let them do it any more if I can help it in any way

[Buzz Clik]

34. You could be correct, and I may be too quick to cast insults toward the Clinton supporters.

However, this ... poster ... manages to piss me off about three or four times per day. Not because he/she has great insight, but just the opposite -- sweeping insults based on ignorance and stupidity.

I'd like to see this one "disappeared" from DU. In the absence of that, I'll do the next best thing...

[SoFlaJet]

50. Please read my new thread i just posted

and think about it for a minute...

[Unsane]

15. Thanks. Now go play with your blocks.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

19. Yes, they do.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

21. no they don't!

[Occam Bandage]

27. Your denial is delicious. BHO built a ground network. HRC didn't bother. It bit her in the ass.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

30. That might be true that Clinton ignored caucus states but it doesn't disprove the premise

[Occam Bandage]

33. Rather, the fact that caucuses award delegates disproves the premise.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

38. Mine did.

Hundreds of non-rich, working-class people meeting on a Tuesday night after working hours. Private ballots. You bet it mattered.

[no name no slogan]

25. They're not supposed to be representative of a general election

they are a chance for party activists to take care of the business of THEIR party.

Comparing a caucus to a general election is like comparing a fish to a lemur.

[LostinVA]

71. That is precisely why primaries should decide delegates

They are more representative of a general election.

[no name no slogan]

73. Not necessarily. Party primaries tend to attract party faithful,

and are also not representative of a general election. Primary voters tend to be more informed than general election voters. Also, primaries tend to have substantially lower voter turnout than general elections, as well.

Party primaries are not representative of a general election, nor should they be.

[cd3dem]

29. the caucuses of 2007 may be historical in the same way Florida and Ohio were in 2000 and 2004

I must say that I never thought much about caucus vs. primary until 2008... many people in our state were disenfranchised b/c they were afraid to come out (older voters with disabilities and middle age middle class people)... I tried to drive seniors and get more than ten people to come out... and they stayed home.. if we had a primary, they would have voted..

and there was no way of keeping track of voters... the lists were illegible and no verification of people... people could have voted in one room and gone down the hall to the next... given bogus names and bogus addresses... and voted as often as they wanted...

we will never know if there was voter fraud...

[wellstone dem]

31. In Maine, people could caucus absentee

so let's see how that affects the result.

Didn't have to go to caucus and be intimidated.....

BTW I've caucused for 30 years and no one has ever criticized me for any position I've taken. They don't always agree but folks have always been polite.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

35. That's slightly better in one area but nowhere near as representative as a primary

[book_worm]

32. turnouts in caucuses have been record levels, besides Obama has won as many primaries as caucuses

and almost as many as Hillary.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

37. The primaries he won mean something not the caucuses

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

41. The caucuses mean something. You just don't like what they mean.

[MadHound]

36. Really? Actually they harken back to the direct democracy days of town meetings and such

But hey, either way, it doesn't matter, Hillary is still getting her ass handed to her. Guess that means you'll be voting for Obama come November eh? Oh, wait, I forgot:blush:

[Melinda]

40. Funny, that's not what you said in *this* thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4117979

Seems to me that someone *else* is a failure at campaigning.

How else would you look at it?

:rofl:

[NightWatcher]

42. Oh Snap!!!! nice catch Mel

[Occam Bandage]

43. OMG LMAO

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

45. LOL! Good catch.

Guess it all depends on what side the bread's been buttered on...

[Bicoastal]

47. HAH! Game...set....MATCH! Melinda wins! nt

[JVS]

44. "Waaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!"

[polichick]

49. MORE sour grapes?????

You must bill them by the thread.

[Vinca]

55. Ho hum.

:donut: Have something to eat - it'll make you feel better.

[Tweed]

61. But Michigan and Florida do?

:crazy:

You need to check the DNC rulebook my friend.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

68. so true

[TSIAS]

69. People are proud to support Obama

But why don't they pledge allegiance to Clinton

[gmudem]

72. Caucuses should be gotten rid of

That being said, they absolutely DO matter because they have delegates and there are Democrats that VOTE in these caucus states. Just because your candidate seems to a good job of getting creamed in caucuses doesn't mean you can just wish them away, stomp your feet and pretend they don't exist.

If Hillary was more successful in caucuses you would never post anything like this.