What is being learned tonight: Obama Is Not Seen As A Democrat

[berni_mccoy]

He's also not viewed as a Republican. He's seen as an AMERICAN. Sure, he's running on the Democratic ticket and his ideology is mostly liberal. But the problems we face, all Americans face, require that we all bind together, work together to solve them. If we don't, we will surely be lost. Millions of Americans will fall into poverty... unless we work together, UNITED as one PEOPLE to prevent it. Millions of Americans will continue to go without healthcare... unless we work together, UNITED as one PEOPLE to change. We must stand united as one people or our country will fall to ruin. We must stand united to heal the divisive politics that have been preached to us through right-wing radio. Whether we listened or not, enough people did, and the memes of hate and division were carried throughout all America via RW talk radio, destroying the unity that this country was built and raised on. The hate and divisiveness spread throughout all America, and you can see it reflected here on DU, like an echo of a loud, destructive noise that occurred long ago. We Americans have worked the hate and carelessness into our culture... it has been too easy to turn away from our neighbors, especially when they are in need. It has been too long since we cared for the poor, fed the hungry and healed the sick. And until the hate and divisiveness ends, and until the healing of this nation begins, we will continue to forget that we are not as divided as our politics suggest.

This is why Obama gives Americans hope. He holds the promise and potential for us to heal our divisions in order to restore this Union, establish justice and prosperity. This is why he is winning over Independents and Republicans. This is why his message rings true with Democrats. This is why he is seen as a true American.

He has seen this clear vision for America and he has shared it with the masses. We see how it can be a reality and how each and every one of us can participate in bringing it to fruition. This is why Obama will be the next great American President.

[MADem]

1. Keep telling yourself that. NT

[Thrill]

50. You must feel like

sh-t tonight?

[MADem]

52. ????

Why would I?

You must feel childish and immature, judging from that commentary!

:rofl:

[Voltaire99]

95. Come on, you want some Obama fever.

That Clinton hiccup just can't compare!

[polpilot]

106. Obama Fever!!! Obama Fever!!!Obama Fever!!!!

220 degrees and rising.

[niceypoo]

178. Bizarre...

...I will never understand the emotions in certain people ignited by simple canned slogans written by slick, professional, paid speechwriters.

[MADem]

167. If America ends up lowering that fever with McCain ice, don't cry to me. NT

[Patchuli]

191. From what I've heard,

Obama got more votes than both Hillary AND McCain. Don't underestimate the young and the formerly disenfranchised Americans. Women too are leaving the Hillary base.

I don't understand why people on each side like to piss on each others' parades. We need to support the DEM candidate no matter who gets it!

[MADem]

194. Overconfidence is dangerous.

You're CERTAIN all those Obama voters weren't nefarious Republicans and right leaning Indys?

I'm not.

[Patchuli]

195. I was an Edwards supporter

and are just slowly coming to the Obama camp. I don't know. I merely said that is what I heard...

[ACanadianLiberal]

137. Brent Taylor, we definitely will keep an eye on you in GE.

You are so distasting.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

141. Distasting?

Really?

[shadowknows69]

2. Agree 100% berni

K+R

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[backscatter712]

9. The cult meme is getting old.

Find another soundbite to parrot, Polly.

[journalist3072]

13. Sorry if the truth hurts you. Oh well..not my problem. The truth normally does hurt people engaged

in blind loyalty.

[berni_mccoy]

16. The truth that hurts you is learning your candidate isn't what America wants.

[Forkboy]

184. Try to go one day without being a flaming hypocrite.

You're one of the worst and most simplistic partisan clowns here.

[L0oniX]

188. That's why he's on my ignore list. n/t

[sniffa]

189. ...

:rofl: :thumbsup:

[QC]

14. But not half as old as the meme meme. n/t

[boricua79]

24. hey man, this a better kool aid

than the stale froth Hillary's selling.

Magical "Clinton Tear Ale", with a touch of "finding her voice", and a putrid aftertaste of "if I knew then what I know now".

Blah...I'm voting Obama. I like Kool-Aid! OOOHHH YEAAAAAH!

[Usrename]

66. !

:rofl:

mmmmmm... hope-a-dope flavor

[Auntie Bush]

176. Sorry, but I can't say the same for you.

[Roland99]

4. He's not polarizing is what it means. Hillary, sorry, is a polarizing candidate

People are tired of the Clinton/Bush dynasties.

[NashVegas]

102. Obama Is Very Polarizing Within DU and Democratic Ranks

In case you haven't noticed, there is a wide swath of people who are royally pissed off that BO is attacking fellow Dems via RW talking points.

Maybe someday you and other Obama supporters will get it.

[DWilliamsamh]

133. WTF are you talking about? What right wing talking points exactly?

Links to examples in his speeches? Or are you just parroting Clinton campaign talking points?

[DURHAM D]

You are so correct.

Real Democrats are pissed.

[peacock]

146. Oh, yes! I agree!

I don´t like this love feast with Republicans. We WILL pay dearly for it if Obama is elected.

[Sonnenschein]

177. What it seems it not necessarily the truth.

Obama has been relentlessly attacking Hillary at every turn. He tries to united every democract against another democrate Hillary.

[Roland99]

199. Well, she deserves every bit of it. Time to dump the DLC!

[QC]

5. You've never heard of raiding the other party's primary? n/t

[zabet]

34. Reading DU, it seems like no one has.

My biggest fear is this is a repuke
ploy to force Clinton down and when
the GE comes, turn all their votes
back to the repuke candidate.

[QC]

37. It's an old, old game: vote en masse in the other party's primary

for the weakest candidate. It's why some of us here have joked about switching party registration to vote for Huckabee or Paul.

Some people here are so naive you can't help but wonder if this is their first election.

[MADem]

53. It's why naive folks are so THRILLED that their candidate got WAY MORE VOTES than the GOP combined!!

Like those votes are going to STAY on our side in the GE...!!! They're so PROUD of that fact, too...!

Of course, we're fools--we run open primaries, allowing Indies to vote, and sometimes allowing GOP voters to cross over, whereas the GOP makes sure that THEY--and not mischief makers from our team--pick their candidates.

[EffieBlack]

104. So, when Obama wins, it's because of crossover votes, but when Clinton wins, she just won?

Your argument sounds like sour grapes - the kind of sour grapes that people often toss when someone other than the candidate they support wins.

It's not very persuasive. And I'd say the same thing if Clinton were winning and Obama supporters were making this claim.

[MADem]

166. Clinton is WINNING blue states. Not states where this sort of

nefariousness is ingrained and done for pure sport.

Also, Obama is winning caucus states, which are not representative of the popular vote AT ALL, and most of them aren't going to go for him in November.

I'm in favor of letting DEMOCRATS pick the nominee, frankly. I think contests that allow Republicans to vote in our primaries are simply ripe for mischief. And I think we saw mischief yesterday.

We'll see, come the fall.

[EffieBlack]

185. "New Rules"

Not only are you coming up with "new rules" you're wrong. Obama is winning blue states as well - maybe you're not paying attention.

It's kind of hard to argue that the candidate who is winning most of the states, most of the votes, and, so far, most of the delegates, is not as viable a candidate as the candidate who is losing to him. And I have a feeling that if the shoe were on the other foot, we wouldn't hear ANYONE (at least no one serious or sober) saying that this proved that Hillary Clinton was less electable than Obama.

But then, that's just me.

[MADem]

187. We'll see what happens in November.

No one is saying he's NOT viable. That's a nice strawman, but it isn't true.

What some are saying is that he is the ONLY viable candidate. And that if he wins the nom, he'll cruise to victory--without a single Swiftboating, with a "We Are The World" soundtrack, without any strain.

And that's presumptive. To say nothing of profoundly naive.

[RazBerryBeret]

147. with all due respect....

are you including John Kerry in this criticism?

this is an email I received from John Kerry today...

"This blew me away: in Barack’s victory in Virginia last night, he won 142,000 more votes than all of the Republicans combined, and his victory margin over Senator Clinton was larger than John McCain’s entire vote total. All of this, in what the Old Guard liked to pretend was "red state" Virginia."


I am officially ashamed of my party...

[MADem]

165. Excuse me? WTF does our PRIMARY system have to do with

any complaints about Kerry?

Most of those voters aren't going to STAY with us in November. If you don't realize that, you're politically innocent.

Who were you before you changed your screen name?

[libbygurl]

172. Exactly. This is the November scenario I fear.

Politically innocent? Well, I doubt the loyalty of so many so-called 'Democrats' on DU who cheer on this crossover voting in the open primaries.

Why are primaries not closed for all, anyway? So easy to game it against the opposition party's weakest candidate, which is what seems to be happening with the O phenomenon.

[dansolo]

186. So are you claiming that Obama isn't inspiring people

It sounds like you are saying that the record numbers during this primary is entirely due to Republicans crossing over to vote for Obama. So I suppose that all of the money that he has been raising recently is also coming from Republicans as well?

[MADem]

196. Why don't you try reading what I write, and stop trying to suggest what I "claim."

Or what I "sound like." Read what I say, and stop trying to put your own flavor on it.

It's pointless having a discussion with acolytes. It's not a discussion-it's an "affirmation session" or nothing.

:eyes:

[RazBerryBeret]

201. sorry 2 B confusing...

my post was in response to post #53; this line in particular
"It's why naive folks are so THRILLED that their candidate got WAY MORE VOTES than the GOP combined!!"

and my point is that John Kerry is one of those people so thrilled that OUR candidate got way more votes ....

and, I've never changed my screen name....I don't post much here...

Hope I cleared up WTF ....

[Blue_In_AK]

59. We Alaska Democrats used to do it up here all the time.

We had no power, so we'd all vote for the very worst Republican on the ballot. They finally got wise to us and moved to a closed primary. Bastards/

[Jim Sagle]

61. Are they ALL so naive, or have some raided DU as well as our primaries?

[QC]

63. I think it's the latter. n/t

[TheDebbieDee]

64. They're not naive, they're blinded by HOPE!

[robbedvoter]

99. It's both. Just like in the election> Some mess things up, others blindly follow

[libbygurl]

173. Agreed. nt

[miceelf]

88. But

Why do you assume that this is happening in Obama's victories rather than in Clinton's? Especially given that people like LImbaugh and Coulter are actively urging their followers to vote for her.

[GMFORD]

161. You act as if the results

haven't been sliced and diced to death. The 'switching party' vote has been insignificant.


Here's some formal logic to ponder.

Statement 1: Clinton is tough enough to beat McCain.
Statement 2: If Obama wins the primary, he is tough enough to beat Clinton.
Ergo: Obama is tough enough to beat McCain by a larger margin than Clinton.

Hope that puts your mind at rest.

[femmedem]

45. Maybe the media's playing that game,

but I do know of quite a few Republicans, some of them family members, who have an irrational hatred of Senator Clinton, but who would vote for Obama rather than McCain. Most of them initially preferred Edwards.

[MADem]

54. And when Rush and Hannity tell those folks to hold their noses and vote McCain, they will. NT

[Skittles]

85. oh, they won't even hold their noses

they'll goose-step with PRIDE!!!

[9119495]

134. But Rush's people didn't vote for Obama

and fewer listen to him each year. Moderate republicans pissed at Bush don't listen to Limbaugh.

[MADem]

163. And you know that, how? NT

[9119495]

190. And you can't see this, why?

Come on, you think that Rush really has an army of Virginia and Maryland voters suspiciously crossing over as...mu-ha-ha (evil laugh)...democrats to vote for Obama? When Hillary's negatives are so high? And Obama's so low?

Tell you what, if I am wrong...I owe you a Susan B.

How many listeners does Rush actually have in Virginia...and did they swing the election to Obama?

[MADem]

198. This is SOP. I can't believe you've never heard of it.

Activists of all stripes do it in any open contests, especially when their team's nominee is a lock. It doesn't take "Rush" to "pass the word." It is a tactic--vote for the weakest candidate that the opponent puts up.

The tactic is called "strategic voting." Folks have gotten PhD's studying it. Do the Google, you'll see.

You are being a bit naive when you do that mua-ha-ha bullshit, too.

It is the GOP that have the CLOSED, winner take all primaries.

It's the DEMS that have, in many cases, OPEN primaries where we----yes WE-- ALLOW the GOP to cross over, and we ALLOW Independents (even right leaning ones) to pick OUR nominee.

I'm not going to argue with someone who doesn't understand how the system is rigged, or who innocently thinks this is some brand new bright idea--it's been a trick for eons, going back as long as open primaries have existed.

It IS an argument for (D) closed primaries, though.

Obama's team has SOLICITED strategic votes prior to this, too: http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/01/obama_precinct_captains_mailer_urges_republicans_to_switch_parties_and_caucus_against_hillary.php

[9119495]

202. AHEM

Come on, you think that Rush really has an army of Virginia and Maryland voters suspiciously crossing over as...mu-ha-ha (evil laugh)...democrats to vote for Obama? When Hillary's negatives are so high? And Obama's so low?


Just how much influence do you think Rush has to swing a primary--in one state?

And yes...I've heard of this practice...I just don't buy that this "Rush army" has 270,000 people in VIRGINIA! That was the vote difference between Obama and Clinton.

[MADem]

204. It helps, you know, to READ what people write. You have not, by your answer.

Rush isn't going to have any effect on PRIMARIES.

Go back and show me where I suggested that.

I didn't.

Now, if you read what I wrote, you'd see that.

Please read this full post carefully, and click on the link I offer--if you really want to understand what I am saying, that is, and aren't just in a combative mode.

Rush comes in at the GENERAL, when he tells the minions to get out there and hold their noses and vote for JMCc. And it is actually getting easier for him to do so, because Romney is going to endorse the guy.

You don't have to believe the reality of mischief making in the primary if you don't want to, but it does happen. It happens often at the grassroots level, and sometimes, it happens because OBAMA supporters--like a precinct captain in NEVADA-- send out flyers urging Republicans to vote against Clinton. You know, like these:

This WAS an Obama precinct captain who ginned these idiotic flyers up--horrible misspellings and all. Full story here:


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/14/proobama-flier-urges-rep_n_81447.html

[libbygurl]

174. You sure about that? When hordes of Repubs are registering as Dems in the primaries?

nt

[susankh4]

83. My concerns exactly...

The Dem party is being scammed.

[peacock]

148. To be sincere, I don´t know

waht we should do. I was for Edwards but as ususual, the Democratic Party rejected the best candidate. Okay, so we have Clinton and Obama. Clinton better represents core Democratic Party issues, but is also burdened with Republican hatred (and some Democratic hatred). Obama is a "Reagan" Democrat. He just might win and win big, but what will he do?

[kaygore]

192. I was in line to vote surrounded by Republicans at my precinct

in Virginia Beach, VA, during my 30 minute wait to vote. We can cross party lines to vote here. The Republicans did joke about it--but the joke was to vote for Hillary to stop Obama, not the other way around! They wanted to stop Obama, noting that their was "No way in Hell that Hillary would be voted in as president"!

The truth is that the majority of Americans, and Democrats, simply do not trust Hillary Clinton.

I heard Obama in person in Alexandria, VA, at the Town Hall meeting there say that he is a progressive! All I have heard from Hillary is her trying to claim conservative lineage.

[OzarkDem]

6. He's a Shape Shifter

He's like his hero, Ronald Reagan. He will appear any way he needs to appear depending on who he's talking to.

He's the perfect candidate for the GOP to use to manipulate Dem primary results.

[Capn Sunshine]

25. Reagan is a million miles from one of Obama's "heroes"

It's disingenuous to suggest he was. Perhaps that's the point.

He did however, acknowledge that Reagan was a political force for change, and despite the positive aspect of the word, not all change is progressive and good. But this goes over the head of folks that just read the headlines or listen to soundbites without context or thought and skip what actually happened. Like 50% of the posters at DU.

[OzarkDem]

87. Privatizing Social Security

Free market rules for health care. Those sound pretty Reaganesque to me.

[miceelf]

89. LOL

Yeah those sound Reaganesque. They also don't at all sound like Obama's policy positions. Where has he argued for privatizing social security?

[OzarkDem]

92. Check his economic advisors

And yes, Obama has talked of privatizing Social Security or (providing a "choice", which is the same thing).

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4539978

[miceelf]

97. Right

Clinton's advisers are even worse. And whatever his advisors think, he's been explicit about his support of social security. Funny you can't even provide a quote supporting your position.

And if there's a candidate left in the race that is DLC, it is HRC.

[cottonseed]

39. He shifted to the shape of the Democratic frontrunner in just a few weeks.

So that can't be too bad.

[Beaverhausen]

7. You think republicans want the same things we want?

really?

[Bluebear]

12. Evidently:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4559903&mesg_id=4560386

[Beaverhausen]

19. I honestly don't get it

The republicans want to: build a fence around this country and not allow anyone who isn't white to enter; they want to deny rights to gays and women; they do not want univeral healthcare (they want healthcare but not the way we do); they want to stay in Iraq forever and want to invade even more countries; and they want to take away a woman's right to reproductive freedom, etc, etc, on and on and on...

How the hell are we to work with those people? What are our common goals?




:banghead:

[Bluebear]

22. Compromise on gays & women, Compromise on healthcare. Compromise on Iraq...

Marvelous.

[Beaverhausen]

23. and all that compromise will get us nowhere

I give up.

[berni_mccoy]

40. You are CONFUSING compromise with showing the other side that our way is the way

for all Americans. For the first time since Kennedy, Americans realize that they have been artificially separated by political talking points... points they bought into that didn't serve their own interest. Obama is uniquely capable of showing them otherwise. This isn't about compromise at all... it's a dramatic shift in perception by the American people... and Obama has unique talents for helping people to see the truth.

[Beaverhausen]

41. the truth about what?

tell me, what issues is Obama winning the republicans with?

[berni_mccoy]

43. The truth is that Americans who call themselves Republicans are realizing

that they are maybe not represented by people with the same values. Obama has done well at pointing that out to them. By focusing on the issues faced by most Americans, he is able to show Americans, regardless of how they are registered, that Washington needs a fresh approach, a new start, and serious change.

[CatnHat]

70. Just like Bush

successfully ran his campaigns on "compassion", "unity" and "change"; and what did our country get. The list is too long to mention; but you get my drift. If people would just stop and "think", our country would be better off. No lessons learned. Looks like Rove met his match with the Obama camp. Catchy little "snippets" when our country is crying for something or anything to "feel" good about; yeah, that's the ticket, sadly.

If the country would just "think" with their heads, and not their emotions, the choice is there; and it isn't Obama.

[Chisox08]

159. Please don't compare Obama to Shrub

George Bush has done more to hurt this country more than any president in this country since Franklin Pierce (A distant relative to Georgie), who did more to cause the outbreak of the Civil War then anyother President. Back to Shrub, he was the only President to ever cut taxes during a war, the first President not to have job growth during a war (Most wars the manufactoring sector grew instead shrunk like during the Shrub Admin).

Hillary Clinton will do exactly what Bill did in his first Administration and let the Bush Crime Familiy off with their crimes. She said that it took a Clinton to clean up the mess that the first Bush left but all that lead to was another Bush in the Whitehouse. I personally don't want to see Jeb Bush in 2016.

If anything the Clintons are more Republican than any Dem. except for LIEberman. Some people go as far as to say that Bill was the greatest Republican President we ever had. And if Hillary gets elected all of the bad from ther Clinton years will get flung in our faces. Faux News is gearing up their zippergate and other Clinton scandle reports. The Rethugs has way more ammo on Clinton then they do on Obama. The only thing they got on him is Rezco and he is new to national politicics.
Just because Hillary is losing please stop with all of the pointless attacks that will be used by the Repukes in November. Just like Obama supporters need to stop with their poitless attacks. Debating their records is one thing pointless attacks is another.

[bpeale]

170. i agree Cat!

[rpannier]

100. This is the same memo we've been getting for over 20 years

And it has failed every time but twice (92 and 96)

Reason is simple...
We listen to polls that tell us how Americans are tired of the negativity and divisiveness of the campaigns.

It's a lie:

Since 1964 almost every candidate that waged the most aggressive campaign (and negative) got the White House

64: Johnson was far more aggressive and negative
68: Nixon
72: Nixon
76: Kind of a wash. Probably Ford was a little more aggressive, but he had the Nixon millstone and the election was still fairly close
80: Reagan
84: Reagan. Although Reagan could have only talked about his new kitten and he'd have won.
88: Bush: Willie Horton anyone?
92: Clinton. Respond in kind times 1000
96: Hard to say but Dole was dead in the water from the start and Clinton's team took no chances
00: Scrubbie
04: Scrubbie

Unless Obama is willing to get aggressive and negative, he will lose.

You can talk polls, the 'Kennedy-esque hope he brings and the people you've talked to all you want.

The republikkans will paint him exactly the way they want and if he doesn't respond in kind times 1000 he will have the same "deer in the headlights look that Dukakis, Gora and Kerry had." With the same end result.

[juajen]

44. OMG, now I see.

We just needed to tell them all these things. We shouldn't have just been writing these points in our secret diaries. Whodathunkit. It was that simple all along.

[berni_mccoy]

46. You won't be able to do it with an attitude of anger and bitterness... and that is why many

have failed to share the vision of a united democracy. We have been torn asunder by hate and at some point it must stop or we will be past the point of reconciliation. You won't win over any moderates or republicans to the way that suits their best interest by being angry and spiteful.

[nonconformist]

80. United democracy? He can't even unite our PARTY.

We've never been so divided. I've had enough of "uniters". It.doesn't.work.

Idealism vs. pragmatism.

[rpannier]

111. Yet when the republikkans are angry and spiteful they got those

moderates and republikkans. I wonder why?

Oh, yeah. Because when they do it they look like they wanna win.

And people have faith that when those tough choices are to be made they'll make 'em.

[MADem]

56. That's not what he is doing, though. He's triangulating, without specifics,

only on him, the outfit is styling...at least that's what his supporters keep saying.

His side is the GOP side, near as I can tell. And it's hard to tell, because he doesn't say much about anything. Hope, change, fired up....you can't find much policy meat in that BS.

[berni_mccoy]

62. Can you honestly tell me you've tried to read his policies.

They are available online here:

Civil Liberties: http://www.barackobama.com/issues/pdf/HowardConvocationFactSheet.pdf
Disabilities: http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/DisabilityPlanFactSheet.pdf
Economy: http://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/EconomicPolicyFullPlan.pdf
Education: (pre-k to 12: http://www.barackobama.com/issues/pdf/PreK-12EducationFactSheet.pdf) (college: http://www.barackobama.com/issues/pdf/CollegeAffordabilityFactSheet.pdf)
etc. etc. etc.

You can find all his plans on all the issues here: http://www.barackobama.com/issues/

Something tells me you won't read them though.

I've read both his and Clinton's plans. They are both very similar. Obama breaks out the issues more, while Clinton treats them in broad strokes. However, they are quite similar in their approach, plans and policies. The difference is Obama's ability to reach the other side with his vision and plan.

[MADem]

68. I've read his stuff and listened to his stump speech a dozen or more times.

And he is unspecific and uninspiring to me. Of the two I think Obama is the more "generic."

If you think Obama is "reaching the other side" well, I can't disabuse you of that notion. I don't agree with it, though. I think those indys and GOP voters aren't going to be on our team come November. They know who the GOP nominee is going to be....they want to clear the path for Crazy Johnny and give him the weakest possible opponent.

[rodeodance]

71. "he's triangulating, without specifics" now that would be a trick!,

[miceelf]

90. LOL @triangulating

Now, who invented "triangulation"?

Lemme see.....

[BlackVelvet04]

74. OMG.....

you're really that stupid? HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA He's going to lead them into the promised land, eh? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[jackson_dem]

93. What did JFK achieve legislatively?

JFK keeps being invoked as somehow Obama is the reincarnation of JFK. JFK won by 0.2%. What did he achieve legislatively? It took LBJ to get everything done. Oops. Will I be tarred as anti-Irish for giving LBJ credit?

Obama is selling people false hopes. Even FDR's peak was 61% of the vote. Obama is going to get 70%? 80%? People have different views on the fundamental role of government. This has been the case since Jefferson and Hamilton went at it. It always will be.

[mahina]

81. Hey hey bluebear,

did the Dead just do a show?

[susankh4]

84. I am now reserving the right ....

to vote "present" in November.

If this kind of rhetoric from the Obama camp doesn't stop:

blogs.abcnews.com/political...ton-d.html

blogs.abcnews.com/political...ntons.html

Mr. Obama needs to understand something. We, the "older" more established base of the Dem party have our opinions too. He is bashing, not only the Clintons... but those of us who voted for Bill and will vote for Hillary.

The list of Clinton accomplishments is quite long. I won't go into them now.

Mr. Obama can expect to get less in the General Election, than the 47% he thinks Hillary can get, if he doesn't knock this off. And NOW.

[susankh4]

101. Oops... here's the active link:

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/02/obama-clinton-d.html

The second link is embedded within.

[bpeale]

169. he doesn't want to compromise on gays, he wants them deprogrammed!

[bpeale]

168. here's obama's goals

and obama wants to deny rights to gays, wants us to have healthcare that leaves 15 million uninsured, is wishywashy on whether to leave iraq, and on and on and on ...

[OzarkDem]

20. No, they don't

They want Dems to lose the GE, that's why they're tryin to get him the nomination.

[lastliberalintexas]

58. Apparently so

And the latest argument from the Obama supporters is that elected republicans might be evil, but republican voters are actually peaceniks who want socialized medicine and a nationalized oil industry.



Personally, I don't like either and am just glad for once my vote doesn't count and I can vote my conscience in Nov. But hell, at least the Clinton supporters mostly stayed grounded in political reality.

[NMMNG]

60. Yeah, the Republicans are all going to roll over and give Obama what he wants

All hail the Mighty Obama. He'll get the Republicans to give up everything they've stood for all those years and realize they love Liberal ideals after all. They want equality for all, vastly expanded social services, same-sex marriage, freedom of all religions, open immigration, comprehensive sex-ed (including LGBT information) and all that. Isn't it amazing?

[Maven]

197. Yes. That's just how magical he is!

MAGICAL!

:sparkles:

[Recursion]

129. Yes

Safe streets, clean air and water, good education for their kids, economic opportunity.

[Bread and Circus]

8. kick for a good analysis.

[rodeodance]

69. no analysis in OP--lots of stringing together of phases-part bible,part founding farther. ect

[Exultant Democracy]

10. Off to the greatest page with you. k&r

[THUNDER HANDS]

11. Obama is the best candidate we've run in eons.

[VotesForWomen]

79. tell the truth; you'd never even heard of him a year ago, had you? nt

[sniffa]

94. I'm pretty sure since at least 2004

but that's just a guess.

[grace0418]

126. I'm a Chicagoan, and have known about him for years.

He's a good man. And I think he'll make a great president. Not perfect, but who is?

[meow mix]

15. yep, glad to see this...

its an great and exciting turn america is taking lots of potential here. we need another jfk.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[smiley_glad_hands]

18. Don't kid yourself.

He is a Democrat. I am one of the white guys in VA that voted for him today.

I know many of you hope and yearn for something better, and believe that he can deliver it.

I just want him to win the damn general election and roll the clock back on what the REPUBLICANS have done the past 8 years.

I don't want or need a camelot candidate.

[BeatleBoot]

26. Good call...

[islandmkl]

21. at this point in time, you must realize the for some people...

the only hope they see in Obama is the 'Hope he doesn't win the nomination."

[berni_mccoy]

29. The Chorus of Cynics is screaming tonight LOL!

[jlake]

27. I sure don't see him as a Democrat.

But I'm also not falling for the set up.

[Raine]

28. Agreed! nt

:thumbsup:

[TheWraith]

30. He's seen as a LEADER. That's why he's such a huge hit.

It's the same way that even a lot of Republicans respect Kennedy. Despite being a strong liberal, he's not perceived as partisan.

[greyghost]

38. Kennedy liberal? Not so much. eom

[rodeodance]

72. a hit?--like a rock star--no thanks. We need someone who can help solve a whole

lot of serious problems we have.

[mopinko]

31. well said

and hopefully, people will learn that there is a difference between the republican politicians and the voters that they have taken for a ride.

[mopinko]

32. well said

and hopefully, people will learn that there is a difference between the republican politicians and the voters that they have taken for a ride.

[TexasObserver]

33. I agree. He has transcended the D v. R paradigm, and it's huge.

We've not had a candidate who could do that in a long time, and we as a party badly need it.

[rodeodance]

73. transending to where? to what? I really do not know.

[QC]

76. transcending to a far better world out there...

[H2O Man]

35. Nominated.

Thank you.

[elocs]

36. Partisans: if you sip their drink it is fine wine, all other's is kool aide.

As somebody who is still undecided, I think the OP makes some good points. I think there are a lot of people who do not view all things through the Democrat/Republic lens and find hope in Obama. I can see a lot of those types who normally swing Republican that like Obama. Try and marginalize his supporters by calling Obama's candidacy "cultish", but you may be surprised. Then I can see how some will pout and threaten to take their ball and go home. Oh well.

[CatnHat]

200. Obama marginalized himself

and his "fans" do little to bridge any gap within our own party. The Obama crowd only sees what they want to see; bound by some strange "loyalty, and yes, it is creepy.

You mentioned "hope", as I see it, Obama talks the talk, but can walk the walk; doubtful. This election is just too
important to drop in the hands of an inexperienced candidate.

If you are on a plane, wouldn't you rather have an "experienced" pilot?

If you were sick and needed medical attention, wouldn't you want your doctor to be experienced?
Why then, is the Obama crowd so willing to put the fate of our country in the hands of someone who isn't tested?

Obama isn't the HOPE, the DEMOCRATS are the HOPE.

And once, people start thinking about it, I "hope" they make the right decision, and go with experience. Simple as that.

What get me is that Obama and his crowd "actually" feel they are the ONLY ones to bring hope and change.
Get real.

The Obama camp "Change" is different from my "Change". I want "Change" in DC with a candidate who will bring to the
table specific policies, and has the "know how" to implement them.

This isn't a contest of words, it's a contest who is better and more equipped to handle the job.

John Edwards, Joe Biden, Dennis Kucinich, Chris Dodd, and yes, Hillary Clinton can bring "Change". The RIGHT
kind of change. That's the difference. To hear the Obama supporters, it all about HIM; not about our country.

This isn't about "establishment" vs. Change, Hope. Just because Hillary Clinton doesn't use HOPE, CHANGE every five
minutes, doesn't mean squat. Change is a "given" to any Democratic candidate.

Do you really think Obama, the most liberal candidate running will actually win the hearts and minds of any republican, they are still bickering among themselves that McCain isn't conservative enough. All Obama's pandering to the republicans won't mean a hill of beans, IF he faces them in the GE.

[backscatter712]

42. K&R! Obama's ability to unite is exactly what America needs.

One of the most insidious things that Bush has done in his eight years of "leadership" in this country is divide us. He's got America divided into virtually armed camps, with our fingers clutched around each other's throats. If we don't find a way to break this pattern, this country will continue to fall apart around us. Until we learn to work with Republicans, and Republicans learn to work with us, instead of pulling the Bush-style "Bipartisanship is doing it my way!", we're going to continue to lose what makes us American.

Obama impresses me because he is able to not only draw Democrats, but independents and even Republicans. I've talked to multiple Republicans who actually like Obama. They don't agree with him on all the issues, but they actually like him, and will listen to him. And he does this without Clinton-style triangulation. He does this without selling out principles like Lieberman. Obama doesn't go for cynicism. He doesn't throw people under the bus. He's one of those really rare true uniters.

The thing we forget here on DU is that the Republican Party, yes, does have its Machiavellians, but that's not all they have. There's lots of Rovian types who go straight for the dirty tricks, the smears, the swiftboating and shoved-down-the-throat bad ideology. It's polluted the party to the point where nastiness dominates, and the leaders don't know anything else. It's not surprising that we see so much demonization here.

But under all that nastiness, there are lots of ordinary people, who don't like what the GOP has become. They're tired of drinking the Kool-Aid. They don't want a leader who'll promise to be fiscally responsible, they want one who'll actually do it, rather than spending like a drunken frat boy with his first credit card. They want civil liberties. They want intelligent leadership. They even want better health care and they want to bring the troops home from Iraq. And the GOP has failed horribly in providing it. Those Republicans can be our allies if you'll have them.

Just as in the 80's there were a bunch of Reagan Democrats, I predict there will be a huge number of Obama Republicans who'll help us change this country for the better.

[krabigirl]

55. Obama Republicans?

[backscatter712]

57. Yeah. Obama Republicans.

Obama was mentioning a few Republicans he's met at his rallies in his speech tonight. And some of my friends are Republicans who are pulling for Obama, because they're fed up with the lunatics in the GOP.

[bpeale]

171. impressions

<<Obama impresses me because he is able to not only draw Democrats, but independents and even Republicans. I've talked to multiple Republicans who actually like Obama. They don't agree with him on all the issues, but they actually like him, and will listen to him. And he does this without Clinton-style triangulation. He does this without selling out principles like Lieberman. Obama doesn't go for cynicism. He doesn't throw people under the bus. He's one of those really rare true uniters.>>

and you think they are all going to fall into line and sing Kumbaya or I'd like to teach the world to sing? George Bush has been a divider & those in the republican party really know the politics of division. think you've heard the last of racism? think again. it has been accepted in this country for the last 7 years and it will continue to fester. the republicans will see to it. as for his principles, are you aware that Lieberman is his mentor? and he may not throw people under the bus, but his supporters do ... they are throwing the boomers, the seniors, the disadvantaged, the poor, those on social security ... they are equal opportunity throwers. they'll throw anybody under the bus and as long as obama says or does nothing to the supporters doing this in HIS NAME, then he is guilty of it as well. all i hear is ME, ME, ME, ME.......... when do we get to hear WE, WE, WE instead?

[yeswecan08]

47. He will be the greatest U.S. president - the transformational president!

[Wizard777]

48. I'm also having problems seeing Obama as a black man. I see him as just a man.

I see him as every man.

[Altec]

49. Right, but eventually....

people will realize he his far to the left, and then what will happen to the coalition? When the tables turn to the issues, people can easily forget about being united.

[Jim Sagle]

65. Far left, my ASS. Back to Freeperville with you.

[David Zephyr]

51. berni_mccoy, I like you.

Excellent.

[buzzard]

67. As do I, I have no horse in this race but it long past due to have someone who embodies hope

and dreams no matter how abstract they are. I have been following your election and every time I see Obama I feel hope for something better, I realize they are politicians but his message resonates across gender, racial and political divides. I hope if elected he can make a difference.

[jasonkrueger]

75. It's easy to talk about unity when the fight against the Republicans hasn't even started

Do you think Obama will attract Republicans once the other side begins to lodge nasty accusations against him?

[BlueStateGirl]

77. So, if you are a candidate that doesn't want to bond with Republicans

or a regular ol Democrat that doesn't buy all this bipartisan love in, you are what.... not a "true American"?

I want to vote for a Democrat.

There is a reason for the spilt. I happnen to believe that we are right and they are wrong. And I don't want to compromise with them.

[VotesForWomen]

78. "I'm a uniter, not a divider." - W. how many times will people fall for this tripe? nt

[EFerrari]

82. Junior never brought the constituencies together that Obama is.

That's just dishonest.

Eta: bernie, you are right. He crosses over, whether that is earned or not, he's doing it.

[saltpoint]

110. Agree -- Dubya never pulled it all together. Consensus appeal is not his

long suit. He's more of a ram-it-down-their -throats politician.

Obama backs up the impulse to bring people together over common goals by asking for their collective investment. Plus, unlike Dubya, Obama can speak.


:thumbsup: :hi:

[EFerrari]

142. That may be half of Obama's appeal.

He can talk.

lol

:hi:

[shaniqua6392]

86. I just hope he lives up to the rhetoric.

It is my greatest fear that there is no substance. Americans have been beaten down by the Bush Administration and they are looking for a savior. We were ripe for the plucking, so to speak. That is a lot to ask of a politician who is only human and is not our savior. I hope everyone is right about him or it will be a long time before another Dem makes it into the White House. It would be great if he were really going to change things. But, I just don't know.

[rodeodance]

91. Obama's first coming. Some interesting questions related to comments here:

orum Name General Discussion: Primaries
Topic subject Obama's first coming
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4540643#4540643
4540643, Obama's first coming
Posted by rodeodance on Mon Feb-11-08 04:55 PM




I think this Oz author raises some valid questions that we should all critically think about.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23182456-28737,00.html

Obama's first coming

Washington correspondent Geoff Elliott | February 09, 2008

IT was early 1994 when Nelson Mandela gave a speech in a slum outside Cape Town and spoke in grand terms of a new beginning and how when he was elected president every household would have a washing machine.

People took him literally. A few months later he became South Africa's first black president. That's when clerks in department stores in Cape Town had to turn people away demanding their free washer and dryer.
.......
How does a cult figure, in the eyes of some something akin to a messiah, make the transition to a political frontrunner - president even - where disappointment will soon crush what seemed to be a journey to a promised land?
Looking into the faces of a more than 16,000-strong crowd in a basketball stadium in Hartford, Connecticut this week, the Mandela magic I'd seen before was there too. Black and white, and the youth; they appeared in a state close to rapture watching Obama speak. Here and there one could see women crying and the some men wiping away tears too.
.......
In the US today there are echoes of that Rainbow Revolution. Through the media and on the streets people are getting a bit giddy over Obama. In this man they are projecting a new course - one that he says he will lead - where the US buries the culture wars, charts a new course in bipartisan politics and heralds a new dawn for America. ......
........
And therein lays the danger for Obama. The Obama shuttle has made it into orbit but at some point he's going to have to land this thing back on Earth.
.........
But the danger remains for Obama in managing the cult-like fervour. Obviously, he's no messiah and lofty expectations of his supporters is something that Obama is also acutely aware of. In stockmarket parlance, Obama's share price is soaring on expected future earnings. Clinton, 20 years in the public eye, is like the industrial conglomerate: steady share price and reliable dividends. Think of Obama as Google and Clinton as General Electric.
.............
"We can do this," he told ecstatic supporters on Tuesday night. "It will not be easy. It will require struggle and sacrifice. There will setbacks and we will make mistakes."
But then Obama, in the next sentence, in attempt to appeal to more voters out there, didn't even mention the Democratic Party but instead his "movement" saying: "I want to speak directly to all those Americans who have yet to join this movement but still hunger for change: we need you. We need you to stand with us, and work with us, and help us prove that together, ordinary people can still do extraordinary things".
.........
In his Super Tuesday speech Obama said "we are the ones we've been waiting for", attempting to make the case the time was now to get some "change" in Washington: a post-partisan world where politicians reach across the aisle for the common good. "This time can be different because this campaign for the presidency of the United States of America is different," he said. "It's different not because of me. It's different because of you."
.......
"Rather than focusing on any specific issue or cause - other than an amorphous desire for change - the message is becoming dangerously self-referential. The Obama campaign all too often is about how wonderful the Obama campaign is."
I hear that too in the voices of Obama's staff constantly, themselves referring to this "cult of Obama".
"Even if he doesn't go all the way, and I'm not being defeatist, I'm so thrilled to be a part of this and see the size of the crowds turning out," one staffer tells me.
.........
. He may well build an unstoppable momentum. And then the giddiness might evaporate and be replaced with something else. In marketing they call it post-purchase disappointment. If he gets the Democratic Party's nomination another test begins anew: how to turn the narrative which is all about striving for what is possible, to one where people are suddenly asking how are you actually going to do it?

[shaniqua6392]

96. This is what I have been afraid of.

Why are Americans so gullible? I am not saying he would not make a good President, but why do we not ask more questions of him? It is all fluffy and nice with no substance. After all that we have been through with Bush, shouldn't we be demanding more from a candidate? I guess I am just cynical when it comes to ALL politicians and I do not look at them through rose colored glasses. That is extremely dangerous, in my opinion. We must force them all to be held accountable. Even some of the Dems now in Washington have turned on us to promote their own agenda. Look at all the Dems who voted nay yesterday on holding the communications companies responsible for allowing Bush to spy on us. This is not the only thing they have gotten away with while the American people have been distracted by Obama's motivational speaking engagements.

[robbedvoter]

98. And, this is a good thing now? Bookmarked! Viva el bipartisanship! No wonder Daschle is in it too!

Can Gephardt be far behind?

[Rockholm]

103. With Pelosi in the wings too.

[Ian_rd]

105. I think you've nailed it there.

Hillary appears (rightly or not) to be an agent of the entrenched Democratic political machine. Obama is seen as a true outsider - a spoiler to the party who wants him to go away so the "serious" people can remain in charge. I think there is truth in this if you ask me.

I think Huckabee benefits from the same interpretation. But of course, Huckabee is almost out and the Republicans are left with someone they can't stand - McCain. How that happened, I cannot fathom, unless electibility became a strong factor among Republican primary voters while they curse him at the same time.

[robbedvoter]

107. Down with the democratic party! let's dismantle it and embrace or brothers GOP!

They won't torture us - too much. After all, McCain was against torture - sorta.(he voted for the expanded version)

[Ian_rd]

109. You must have responded to my post by accident ...

... for it it has absolutely nothing to do with what I wrote. Unless you equate my political interpretation to an endorsement of the GOP (and torture?). In that case, your response is an incoherent knee-jerk reaction to a liking for Obama.

[MethuenProgressive]

108. Obama is the first candidate of the New Republican-Democrat Party.

Obama is the first candidate of the New Republican-Democrat Party.

[robbedvoter]

115. True that! I am voting Democrat in Novemeber - one way or another

[jjr]

112. You are so Right (pun intended)

I am voting for Obama and I am a registered Rupublican living in Sugar Land, TX home of Tom Delay. I voted for George Bush twice and I feel so betrayed by the Republican party that I want a NEW Washington! McCain, Huckabee, and Hillary are not NEW. They are the old establishment and we need to flush the clogged toilet that is Washington, DC. If an old white right wing extremist like myself can change his tune than millions more will as well! Obama is the next President of the United States.

VERY IMPORTANT - If you are a Republican living in Texas you can vote in the DEMOCRATIC primary! Someone needs to get the word out on this fact for Obama as a LOT of registered Republicans will vote for CHANGE and will vote for NEW and will vote for YOUNG!

[smiley_glad_hands]

113. Some of you are effing nuts. eom

[Horse with no Name]

114. So how are long-time Democrats/advocates going to feel

if Obama decides to SHOW his bipartisanship by nominating a republican to SCOTUS?
After all, isn't THAT what all this is about?

[berni_mccoy]

117. He won't. He's going to show Republican voters why a non-Republican Judge would be better

[Horse with no Name]

119. You don't KNOW that. Neither do I. You can expect after ALL of his

talk of "bipartisanship" that the media AND the republicans will force him to "walk the walk".
That will include giving up some plum positions of power to them.
I have a very hard time with that.

[berni_mccoy]

121. He's already shown Republicans that a Democratic President could be a great choice for them

Why is it so hard to believe the same for SCOTUS?

[Horse with no Name]

123. So let me get this straight

Because Obama says "Democrats are good"...republicans are just going to fall on their swords and repeat the meme? You think all of the sudden they are just going to "see the light" and realize that they were wrong all along?
You don't think that Obama is going to have to include the republicans in his cabinet/SCOTUS after ALL of the talk of bipartisanship?

[backscatter712]

128. I think it's more like...

ex-Republicans who are sick of Bush's and Cheney's shit will open their eyes and get on the Obama train.

Sure, there are the 23-percenters who will continue to drink Bush's Kool-Aid (Look everyone! I made a Jim Jones Kool-Aid reference that isn't being used to call Obama's campaign a cult!) but there are also the people who call themselves Republicans who as we speak are fleeing their party, because the lunatics have taken over the asylum over there. And where are they fleeing? Here. Because they're starting to figure out that Democrats are actually better than Republicans at being fiscally responsible instead of paying lip-service. They're figuring out that rattling sabers everywhere is not a sensible foreign policy, and that starting multiple wars in the Middle East is a recipe for disaster. They're figuring out that they're being screwed by their health insurance companies, and that the Democrats are actually coming up with plans to make sure they and their families have decent health care.

And it's about damned time that we stop flinging poo long enough to realize that there are a lot of people out there willing to join us if we extend a hand to them. It's not selling out. It's bringing our progressive message to a larger audience.

[Horse with no Name]

130. What it is

Is diluting OUR party's progressive message.
Instead of US asking THEM to bend to our views on same sex marriage, abortion, religion, etc...we seem to want to bend to their views so we can show them we are better than they.
The more right wingers that are added to our party--pushes the traditional Democratic message to what is lovingly termed "the far left" so as to make it seem extreme.
republicans don't expect to come into "the big tent" and be gracious guests...instead, they tend to want to stand in the center and loudly proclaim their ideals while pushing the grassroots/populist/progressive/liberal voices OUT from under the tent.
I'm sorry. They fucked up their own party and if they want to come into MINE, then they need to learn to be good houseguests.
But we all know that they aren't.
They pissed in their bed and now want to come into mine and soil it.

[backscatter712]

135. Let me give the choices we have.

1. We can keep the Democratic party and the progressive movement our exclusive little clique. We can laud about how we never "sold out", and how we always stuck to our guns. At the same time, our ideals will never become reality. We'll be forever bitching about how we need to change things, and complaining about how the establishment is screwing us, but nothing will change - the other guys will always have the reins of power, and we'll always be pushed to the sidelines.

2. We can expand. No, it is not selling out. It is not compromising. It is expanding to a larger base. You seem to think that we have a zero-sum game here, that the amount of progressive thought distributed among the population is fixed. That is not true. We have the chance to become the progressive majority. We have the chance to take people who thought of themselves as conservative, talk some sense into them, and convince them to become liberal. Now's the time to strike, now that Bush has fucked up the country so badly that it's obvious to everyone who isn't still a Bushie that the GOP ideology is bankrupt, and that it's time to move on to our alternative - something new, something better, more humane, that will lift up everyone, not just the fat cats on top, and that makes us think of ourselves as Americans again, rather than as Democrats or Republicans. Bring enough people on board and we can change America forever.

Or we can sulk in our exclusive little clique.

C'mon, have some ambition!

[Horse with no Name]

136. How is that working out for the GLBT community?

The further right we move the further their rights get thrown under the bus.

[backscatter712]

138. I don't know about you, but I have no intention of throwing the GLBT community under the bus.

If we can get a majority, maybe we can actually push through some things like real legal gay marriage.

But we have to be willing to reach out and get that majority.

Don't exclude. And you're right - don't sell out our principles either.

PERSUADE! It can be done.

[Horse with no Name]

140. Not with the likes of McClurkin lurking. n/t

[robbedvoter]

125. I used to doubt this fact, seing how GOP-ers are, but now I realized you are right:

[robbedvoter]

116. It's good you got all the new friends - GOP, indies - you won't need Hillary's voters

Because they will probably vote democratic in November - like me. One way or the other, democratic

[berni_mccoy]

118. He's got her voters too. Don't confuse crossover with switching sides.

[robbedvoter]

124. Problem is - her voters are democrats, wanting to vote democratic - not bipartisan

So, maybe this post-partisan posture has a few drawbacks after all.

[berni_mccoy]

154. If she doesn't want indie and repub voters then she will never win.

You can't win the General Election on only Democratic voters. Obama is running a national campaign for the GE. Clinton is losing base Democratic voters.

[robbedvoter]

160. Indie, GOP voters only corssed over to mess up our primary - they'll vote GOP

in November. believe it.

[berni_mccoy]

162. Now THAT's some great Koolaide. Is that the Conspiracy flavor?

[libbygurl]

182. No, that's the REALITY. Repubs are NOT naive,

...unlike some Dems these days.

[QC]

120. It's certainly working on me.

I have a very hard time seeing him or his supporters as Democrats.

[berni_mccoy]

122. The irony of your divisive post eludes you.

Many extremists here can not get past the hate they have for their neighbors who do not see things from the far left perspective.

And as far as this Obama supporter goes, I've been a Democrat as long as I have been registered to vote.

[jaybeat]

150. You want a "far left" perspective. Here's one:

I don't want a President who will work with Republicans. I want a President who will put Republicans in JAIL. (Except for the ones who did REALLY nasty things. I want a President who will ship THEM off to the Hague!)

Republican policies are KILLING AMERICA. If we don't face up to that, and call it for what it is, we can kiss our sweet country GOOD BYE!

If we're lucky, we'll have this ONE CHANCE to show the American people that MOST Republican politicians are CRIMINALS who want want what is best for themselves and their corporate benefactors and will stop at nothing to sell this country and its people to the highest bidder.

We blew our chance in '92 because Big Dog wanted to be a "new" kind of Democrat. So he let GB I and all of the other Iran-Contra/BCCI criminals off the hook. And look where it got us.

If we don't, if we play nicey-nice and all compromisey, then there's a chance there will be, in 4 years, 8, 12, whatever, another Republican President. When that happens, you, I, and all your sweet compromising asses will get hauled into FEMA camps or worse.

This is a fight. A fight to the death. A fight we'd better not lose. We will not survive with half-measures. We will not survive with the kind of politics that says "impeachment is off the table" or "we'll let Roberts and Alito through as long as you *promise* not to send us anyone worse," or "we don't want to uphold the LAW because we think it is more important to elect Democrats in the next election."

Newsflash. If we don't elect Democrats who WILL uphold the law, there won't be a law to uphold for very much longer.

*Disclaimer* I'm not saying Hillary will go after Republican crimes any more than Barack will. Too much of her husband's patented triangulations are caught up in them. But this talk of "unity" and coming together with war criminals and people who'd just as soon kill your baby in an airport as look at you makes me want to puke.

[hfojvt]

132. some of them are former Edwards supporters

I had a hard time seeing Bill Clinton as a Democrat. Before and after the election of 1992.

[publicatlarge]

127. Obama should run as an Independent

..instead of trashing the Democratic Party. Bushco and the Republicans have nearly ruined the country, and that point needs to be heard loud and clear. No retro-active immunity for Bushco.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

131. you are so right.

[tbl92666]

139. I can't wait to see the look on your smug little face

when your little god turns out to be nothing that he promised you he would be.

Really...you people are delusional with this second coming crap. Good luck winning without all of us you turned off with your mooney-eyed genuflecting, though.

[Oskie]

143. For change we need more Dems in Senate&House so why did...

Obama campaign for Lieberman in '06? Instead of Lamont. Lieberman is pro Iraq war and Obama could have shown how deeply against the war he is, and effected real change, by helping Lamont. But opted to support Lieberman. As a former idealistic leftie, don't be surprised when "change" gets blocked in Congress because of Lieberman and other Repubs lite. I don't care who you vote for -- just don't fall for the BS. Ha!

[happygoluckytoyou]

144. WOOHOO>....the center has moved --OBAMA IS A CENTRIST!!!!!!

[backscatter712]

151. Maybe that's the key.

The way to do centrism correctly isn't to sell out and move yourself towards the center.

We want to bring the center to us!

Obama seems to be the man that's doing just that!

[peacock]

145. Good luck!

[jillan]

149. I find it surprising that the same people that want our Dems to stand strong against

the rpugs are the same ones that are thrilled to have a candidate that makes it no secret that he is willing to reach out to the repugs.

[ProSense]

152. "makes it no secret that he is willing to reach out to the repugs." You're confusing Obama with

the Clintons and Mark Penn!

Obama's version of building coalitions:

..Obama pledges to reach across partisan lines, and outside them as well, to build support for a progressive agenda, he's not talking about abandoning his party and sharing power directly with people who don't share his (or Nunn's) assessment of the challenges facing America, and who would oppose any progressive agenda with every political weapon available. Best I can tell, Obama's offering an extended hand to the GOP that he's willing to make into a fist. And his argument with some in the Democratic Party, most notably John Edwards, over how to enact progressive policies, mainly reflects differences of opinion on how to marshal public opinion to reverse most of the GOP policies of the Bush era.

A few examples of progressive leadership in action: here, here and here

Hillary's version of coaltion building here and here.

[berni_mccoy]

153. It seems hard for the Clinton supporters to get this. Maybe because Clinton caved on so much

during his Presidency.

[jillan]

156. Are you insulting Bill Clinton's presidency?

Let me guess, you preferred Reagan.

[ProSense]

157. Bill Bradley on

triangulation:

An Obama supporter and ex-presidential candidate himself, former New Jersey Sen. Bill Bradley said Bill Clinton is conveniently ignoring his own presidential past of "triangulation," adopting some Republican ideas in order to get re-elected in 1996.

"It was indeed in the Clinton administration ... that the whole concept of triangulation took place, which means appearing to be Republican to enough people to get elected, and that's what happened," Bradley told MSNBC.

[jillan]

155. all I see is ignore-

whomever you are.

[berni_mccoy]

158. It's too bad. They have a great point.

[Torn_Scorned_Ignored]

164. @ =

:puke:

[libbygurl]

175. He's all things to everyone - even the Repubs like him (not), so...

...he must be the Second Coming.

Politically naive thinking here, methinks.

[EFerrari]

179. Appealing to those outside your base isn't naive, it's practical. n/t

[libbygurl]

181. And do you seriously think those Repubs-turned-Dems will vote for him, too, in

...the General Election?

I have a bridge that I can sell to you, too. Cheap!

[EFerrari]

183. Yes, they will and you couldn't sell me water in the desert.

Your pitch is too negative to even listen to.

[kaygore]

193. Yes, in Virginia they will

I have been shocked by the number of friends who have always been die hard Republicans who are for Obama. His message of uniting the country again resonates with them.

[sampsonblk]

180. No, Obama is a way for 'moderates' to avoid admitting they fucked us twice

Many were stupid and voted for Bush. We all got fucked. Obama is a way for them to make amends without actually eating the crow. Voting for Hillary Clinton would have been too much for some of them. Too much like saying they helped Bush screw this nation.

[LWolf]

203. Sorry, but I'm not feeling the hope.

I DON'T LIKE HIS "CLEAR VISION" FOR AMERICA.

I guess I'm not one of the "masses." :shrug: