So, what is Obama telling us about the votes he received in Florida?

[Maribelle]

The Obama campaign has stated over and over again that a good reason Florida votes should not count is that the people did not get to know him because he didn’t campaign there.


If you believe that, then what exactly is the Obama campaign saying to the world? Are they really telling us that the good people of Florida that did vote for him didn’t know him? Or what excuse do the use today regarding these voters? Especially, what about the voters of three congressional districts of Florida where Obama handily won, perhaps thanks to the intricate surgery by Republican gerrymandering at it’s finest.


A map of the republican fine-tooth-combed and carved congressional districts:
http://fcit.usf.edu/florida/maps/congress/congress.htm

The stats of three Florida districts where Obama said people did not get to know him:

1. Congressional District: 3 Obama 58.1%
   
   http://fcit.usf.edu/florida/maps/congress/cong03.htm
   
   race alone or in combination with one
   or more other races:
   Black or African American . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 298,183.....50.8%
   http://censtats.census.gov/data/FL/5001203.pdf
   
   
   
2. Congressional District:17 Obama 55%
   
   Race alone or in combination with one
   or more other races:
   Black or African American . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 366,030.....63.4%
   
   http://censtats.census.gov/data/FL/5001217.pdf
   
   
   
3. Congressional District:23 Obama 52.1%
   Race alone or in combination with one
   or more other races:
   Black or African American . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 363,519.....58.7%
   

http://censtats.census.gov/data/FL/5001223.pdf
http://election.dos.state.fl.us/elections/resultsarchive/index.asp?ElectionDate=1/29/2008

Obama’s forked tongue has grown so split he can stick the ends in his ears. Most Floridians know this.

[Kittycat]

1. Oh shut up already. Forked tongue?

Give me a fucking break. You know damn well that when Obama campaigns in a state, he gets more voters. And you know that many floridians didn't vote because they assumed their vote wouldn't count, and the tax bill didn't involve them.

If FL would agree to a re-do, this would be over with. But they won't. They broke the rules. And I'm taking Pelosi's side on this in that FL should not determine the winner.

[indimuse]

4. and we also know..

obama runs on lies...the public has NEVER heard the truth about...Your beloved FORK TONGUE!He needs to run run run all the way home...he comes here...I am known as "Mighty Mouth!".. I will put that nick name to use! hhehheh ;) ;)

[Kittycat]

19. Liar :)

Just like a good hillbot. Attack your opponents strength. He's strong and honest, so you attack him as weak & lying.

[indimuse]

40. you are a LIAR and and a accomplice!!

the truth will be revealed soon..I hope soon enough!Attacts..? Truth is NOW attacts..? Just like a BUSHY you are! :P 5 hours..? War funding! Nuclear Backers! Rev Wright and Farakahun

http://www.beatitudessociety.org/blog/alex_carpenter/20080125/710
http://sweetness-light.com/archive/obamas-spiritual-mentor-brings-up-monica

Obama took the title of his more recent book, The Audacity of Hope, from the first sermon he heard preached by Wright, whom Obama met while working in Chicago

as a community organizer…

Hot off the presses from MSNBC:

"Obama said he would vote for a Peruvian trade agreement next week, in response to a question from a man in Londonderry, NH who called NAFTA and CAFTA a

disaster for American workers. He said he supported the trade agreement with Peru because it contained the labor and environmental standards sought by groups like

the AFL-CIO, despite the voter's protests to the contrary. He also affirmed his support for free trade."


http://rezkowatch.blogspot.com/2008/02/rezkos-power-plant-in-iraq.html

ezkoWatch will follow the adventures -- and misadventures -- of indicted Chicago political friendster-fundraiser Antoin "Tony" Rezko and his relationship with

Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.).

Tuesday, February 5, 2008
Rezko-Auchi-Alsammarae: power plant in Iraq (renamed w/Updates)
Chicago Business reported July 29, 2005, that Chicago-based Rezmar Corp., owned by indicted political fundraiser Antoin "Tony" Rezko, had "entered into a joint

venture with a British firm in a $150-million deal to build a <250-megawatt> power plant in Iraq," with construction to begin in the fall. However, construction did not

commence in 2005.

The unnamed "British firm" was General Mediterranean Holding SA which belongs to Nadhmi Auchi, the corrupt Iraqi-British billionaire who provided Rezko with the

$3.5 million that caused him to lose his bond and wind up in jail to await his March 3, 2008, trial date.

The contract for the power plant had been negotiated in 2004. The agreement was signed with Aiham Alsammarae, the head of Iraq's ministry of electricity, who called

for "the soon-to-be named joint venture" to be based in Jordan. The plant was to "supply power to Iraq for 10 years," according Michael Rumman, who speaks Arabic

and who was Rezmar's spokesman, Chicago Business reported.

During a summer 2005 Chicago Sun-Times interview, Rumman, Rezko’s point man on his proposed power plant in Iraq said "Rezko used his 'formidable overseas

network of business relationships' to join energy consulting companies and win the contract."

On December 3, 2006, the Chicago Sun-Times reported that Rumman "already had been to Jordan, where 'most of the negotiations and deal structures are done.' He

had hoped to begin construction on the Chamchamal plant in January of this year."

In the same article, the Sun-Times reported that, when it reached Rumman for comments, he "declined to discuss the plant or Alsammarae. The U.S. Army Corps of

Engineers confirmed that the contract for the Chamchamal project no longer is in effect." Chamchamal is a Kurdish city located to the east of Kirkuk and west of

Suleimania in Iraqi Kurdistan.

Additionally, the Sun-Times reported that

Federal authorities are investigating an Iraqi power plant deal involving Antoin 'Tony' Rezko, a former top fund-raiser for Gov. Blagojevich charged with defrauding Illinois

taxpayers.

Investigators want to talk to Iraq’s jailed former electricity minister, Aiham Alsammarae, about how Rezko landed the potentially lucrative contract, a source familiar

with the probe told the Chicago Sun-Times. ... helped Rezko get the deal

[Maribelle]

5. Did the voters in the districts he won not know him?

I believe you are purposefully attempting to add a toxic substance to my thread because you are too terrified of the truth.


But I do thank you for showing this fact off, truly. I couldn't have done it better myself.

[Kittycat]

21. Your thread is toxic substance.

Instead of trying to engage and discussion your issue - you attack. Therefore, your argument is falling on deaf ears. Your no better than your win-at-all-costs hillary, the cheat.

[indimuse]

2. Obama ran ads..Against the rules...and yet ,lies about campaigning there!

Ad campaign! Please I live in Fl...people know who he is...no likeee go away! lol...

[Yossariant]

3. I feel very sorry for those poor voters. Living in tents, no TV's, no media access.

If they had electricity, maybe they could have watched a debate or two between the candidates.

:think:

[Maribelle]

10. Yes, if only they had TV's ...

they too could have been a part of that exclusive club of 6.5 million households in Florida that received Obama's "Nationl ads" (the ones he could not have possibly done any other way).

Sorry about that folks!

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

13. Yea they can get together with the Wisconson voters

Who the hill bot swear need an instate debate to know the candidates..

[anamandujano]

58. There is plenty more clarification needed on both candidates intentions

for our country.

They could do a whole debate on health care, or Obama's plans for eternal war (he is so close to McCain on this, it's eerie.)

So far the debates have given us a taste of their plans. We need more details. Thank you very much.

Edit to add--There are also important issues within each state that the voters of that state would most likely need clarification on, hence the need for instate debates.

[Vinca]

6. Let's close our eyes and pretend the tables were turned.

If Obama had won Michigan and Florida and wanted the delegates seated, the Hillary people would already be on the steps of the courthouse trying to stop it. The more Clinton presses to have an unfair vote counted, the sleazier (and more desperate) she looks.

[Maribelle]

8. To find your answer to "pretend the tables were turned" you simply need to turn all that energy...

into doing your homework. There are thousands of hits on google of the candidates statements before January 29th - - and also more thousands of hits from Floridian voters before the primary. Try to keep up.

[Vinca]

9. And your point is what? That Clinton, a brand name by all accounts,

having been First Lady for 8 years and married to Bill Clinton, is on equal footing with Obama because of Google? That's one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. Keep it up. Split the party. We'll have Grandpa McBush installed and war will continue for decades. It's pathetic she feels she must seat questionable results to win. I think John Edwards might have won Michigan, but Hillary wants to glom the voters anyway.

[Maribelle]

11. My point ? My response was a proposed solution to your feigned quandary

Nothing more, nothing less.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

14. Ummm

Hill was the only one on the MI ballot and it was known that on name recognition she was going to win fla... I would be as if VA had broke the rules and the day before the voted Obama started sabre rattling..

[Maribelle]

15. And what do YOU think Obama is telling us about the votes he received in Florida?

I would like to hear your opinion of this - - you don't have to post links - just your pure opinion.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

53. I think that there should be a revote.

I think telling a bunch of people 'ths state does not count' means that you cant rely on the outcome being the same as the true will of the people..

If I knew Minnesota would not have counted I would not have packed up my kids and taken a very difficult trip to the polling place..

[Little Star]

55. Hillary was not the only one on the MI ballot. Try google.

[Yossariant]

7. "Count the votes!" (2000) "Don't count the votes!" (2008) The Dems look great on this one.

:crazy:

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

12. Hillbot are funny..

No campaigning in Florida is not depriving the voters of an accurate picture *but* not debating in every state where Hillary is in shooting distance *is* depriving the voters!

[Maribelle]

17. Can't give an answer to the question in the OP so you twist and turn?

Not too clever, that.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

54. Its not twisting and turning its seing desperation for what it is!

Hill bots have been saying that the lack of a debate in WI is denying people information but think that a state iwth no campaigning should count?

[Lerkfish]

16. "forked tongue"???!!!! man you guys are getting muy desperate.

I fail to see how this helps your cause any, frankly.

[Maribelle]

18. And what do you think Obama is telling us about the votes he received in Florida?

But thanks for showing off your focus on forked tongues.

[Kittycat]

23. That all candidates agreed that the delegates wouldn't be seated.

PS. And look at that... Another loser is being added to my ignore group. Great job showing your true colors :)

[Lerkfish]

25. hey, you brought it up, I'm just pointing out how counterproductive you are

if you can't handle the truth, whatever dude.

[Maribelle]

28. So, you haven't a clue what Obama is saying about the votes he received in Florida ?

Sorry that Obama is leaving you clueless.

[Lerkfish]

42. not my responsibility. I'm not on the Obama campaign committee

However, I can still object to heinous terms like "forked tongue". Why you gotta go racial on everything?

[anamandujano]

62. They seem to enjoy being clueless. They wage a bloody battle over

any and every probe into his background, his issues, his backers, everything.

[JTFrog]

20. THE VOTES WERE TAINTED BEFORE THEY WERE CAST.

That is the fact. Nothing will change this fact. No matter who's fault it was, no matter what subsequent steps were taken, the fact will remain:

THE PRIMARY VOTES IN FLORIDA AND MICHIGAN WERE TAINTED BEFORE THEY WERE CAST because of the controversy caused by changing dates.

No matter the cost, no matter who benefits, the only way to fairly resolve the matter is to allow the candidates to campaign in those states and hold another vote. As for time, we have states that won't be voting until June, I think those two states could arrange something before then.

If that doesn't happen then the democratic party will lose no matter if the delegates are seated or not. You could make an argument for seating or not seating, but it wouldn't change the tainted data that they are working with.

[Kittycat]

22. Well, that and the fact that the voters were told that their votes wouldn't count

So many didn't vote.

It's no point arguing with these two trolls. They're just here to bait and flame.

[Maribelle]

26. Floridians were told their votes would count, by the agency that is the authority.

Obama, Kerry, and DNC had no right to tell Floridians their votes would not count.

The State of Florida is the authority, and they told all Floridians their votes would count.

[Maribelle]

24. In Florida, Obama and Kerry tried to 'taint' the votes by saying they would not count.

The State of Florida contradicted them royally, counted each vote, and posted all the votes into the annals of history for the world to see.

[JTFrog]

27. So you agree with me.

That is the fact. Nothing will change this fact. No matter who's fault it was, no matter what subsequent steps were taken, the fact will remain:

THE PRIMARY VOTES IN FLORIDA AND MICHIGAN WERE TAINTED BEFORE THEY WERE CAST because of the controversy caused by changing dates.

[Maribelle]

29. No, JTFrog, I don't agree. I said they "tried to". They were not successful in Florida.

Sorry, but we disagree.

[JTFrog]

30. Kerry and Obama are late players in that game. The actual controversy began when the primary dates

were changed. From that point on the vote was tainted. Regardless of who was at fault or what subsequent steps were taken. Nothing will ever change that fact.

[Maribelle]

31. The DNC only said the delegates would not be seated. The vote is not tainted.

The vote in Florida has been validated by The State of Florida.

It's official.

Its' recorded in history.

[JTFrog]

37. It is recorded as tainted history. I'm sure you were satisfied by the state's validation

of the votes in 2000 as well. You can stop by any local library and get a dozen books that report that vote as tainted. So will history be written about 2008.

[Maribelle]

39. You're wrong.

All authority has validated the presidential preference primary vote of 2008 in Florida without protest, as in 2000.

You need to work on those 'facts' of yours.

[Little Star]

57. I see no problem in a do-over if the two states remain the

primary states they are. No caucuses for primary states.

[anamandujano]

64. That's the way I saw it until I realized that Repukes were crossing over and

meddling in our primaries and caucuses to install the weaker candidate, Obama.

It would be worse now that McCain has it wrapped up.

That would be a world class tainted vote.

[Little Star]

69. good point

[suston96]

32. Both states will be lost to the Democratic nominee in the general if delegates are ignored. nt

[Little Star]

59. Why wait? Let's just hand them to Mac now so Obama will not

lose the majority of delegates that Hillary got in both states! Wouldn't want to make Obambi cry now would we!

[Tactical Progressive]

33. And he's saying no need for more debates because everybody has seen them

nationwide.

So he plays the national visibility argument against debates and plays the local argument against counting their votes.

[Maribelle]

34. Many species of reptiles ...

have forked tongues.

[KaryninMiami]

35. I'm in FL and I selected my candidate knowing it would not be counted towards a delegate

Had I known that it would, my choice would have been different. I voted with my heart- not for somoene who could win or for whom the vote would make a difference for. The Florida statewide votes for the statewide and local issues did count. But we were all told clearly, that we'd been stripped of our delegates. They cannot change the rules after the game has been played. Period.

[Maribelle]

38. Why did you think you knew it would not be counted towards a delegate. It always counted.

What was your source?

The Florida Democratic Party ALWAYS said the primary votes would count towards a delegate. They are in fact, selecting delgates now based on the Jan. 29 final tally.

The State of Florida, in its election rules of 2007, have given this athority to the STATE party committee.

F.S.2007 Ch. 103.091



2) The state executive committee of a political party may by resolution provide a method of election of national committeemen and national committeewomen and of nomination of presidential electors, if such party is entitled to a place on the ballot as otherwise provided for presidential electors, and may provide also for the election of delegates and alternates to national conventions.

(Page 79 of 152 in PDF document)


(4) The names of candidates for political party nominations for President of the United States shall be printed on official ballots for the presidential preference primary election and shall be marked, counted, canvassed, returned, and proclaimed in the same manner and under the same conditions, so far as they are applicable, as in other state elections. If party rule requires the delegates’ names to be printed on the official presidential preference primary ballot, the name of the presidential candidates for that political party may not be printed separately, but the ballot may reflect the presidential candidate to whom the delegate is pledged. If, however, a political party has only one presidential candidate, neither the name of the candidate nor the names of the candidate’s delegates shall be printed on the ballot.

(Page 81 of 152 in PDF document)


http://election.dos.state.fl.us/publications/pdf/2007electionLaws.pdf

[KaryninMiami]

44. You are incorrect. The DNC stripped MI and FL of delegates as punishment - Links provided

I Live here. Trust me- we were outraged to be told by our own party, that through no fault of our own, our votes were not going to count towards delegates. We were advised of this repeatedly.

Florida and Michigan moved their primary dates up this year, in clear violation of DNC policy. As punishment, the DNC ruled that they will not seat delegates from those states at the Democratic National Convention in August. Furthermore, the candidates for the Democratic nomination made a pledge not to stump in Florida, which combined with the DNC lockout, would render the primary results of Florida and Michigan all but meaningless. "

Links: Washington Post, August 26, 2007
Washihttp://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/25/AR2007082500275_pf.htmlngton

DNC Strips Florida Of 2008 Delegates No Convention Slots Unless Later Primary Is Set
The Democratic National Committee sought to seize control of its unraveling nominating process yesterday, rejecting pleas from state party leaders and cracking down on Florida for scheduling a Jan. 29 presidential primary.

The DNC's rules and bylaws committee, which enforces party rules, voted yesterday morning to strip Florida of all its delegates to the 2008 Democratic National Convention in Denver -- the harshest penalty at its disposal.

USA Today http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/2007-08-25-florida_N.htm
Democrats strip Florida of primary delegates

Other Links
http://www.nowpublic.com/dnc-votes-strip-fla-delegates
DNC votes to strip Fla. of delegates

[Seeker30]

51. So you voted for someone you didnt like because you thought it would count?

Now thats some funny shit!

[Little Star]

56. You still got that brooklyn bridge for sale? Me thinks

you are fibbing about your voting for someone and now claim your choice would have been different when you cast you ballot. Why would anyone, vote for the opposite person on voting day, even if they thought it would not be counted toward delegates? You certainly knew, they were at the very least, going to tally up the nominee votes. If you were silly enough to play with your vote and bring down the tally for your preferred candidate, you must be one funny person. :rofl:

[ElsewheresDaughter]

36. He held a TV News Conference in Tampa on the Sunday before the vote too saying......

"I promise you that the Florida delegates will be seated"

[Lerkfish]

41. link?

I don't recall that. Of course, I"m following every speech, either.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

43. here ya go...yeah it is crazy to even try tio follow them all

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2007/sep/30/obama-vows-do-whats-right/?news-breaking

oh and btw...Obama broke the campaign rules by doing this in FL

[Lerkfish]

49. hey thanks.

like I've said before, my two best candidates are no longer running, so I've not kept up with Obama from the beginning cause I was hoping Edwards or Kucinich would still be in by now.

well, nothing surprises me, really. I still think Obama is the better of the two choices currently running, but I'd have preferred more choices.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

52. Kooch was my man and still is and Edwards was my 2nd too...sigh

[Lerkfish]

66. so here we sit all broken hearted, wanted to vote but our choices departed....

:)

[jackson_dem]

45. Obama was for seating Florida's delegates before he was against it

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2007/sep/30/obama-vows-do-whats-right/?news-breaking

[Little Star]

61. This need it's own thread. Did you use your 3 today? I still

have three if ya need help.

[UALRBSofL]

46. Great post

K/R :)

[Johnny__Motown]

47. He is saying that only about 1/3 of voters got to know him, you honestly can't figure that out?

[Yael]

48. He's telling us that if we don't preserve the rules of the party that the next primary

will be a clusterfuck.

[anamandujano]

65. This primary is a clusterf*ck. By contrast the GE will be a walk in the park

for the Repukes.

I'm beginning to think the DNC reports to the RNC.

[rodeodance]

50. Thanks Floridian

Obama’s forked tongue has grown so split he can stick the ends in his ears. Most Floridians know this.

[trthnd4jstc]

60. Let Florida, and Michigan Caucus in June

Why not allow Florida, and Michigan Democrats Caucus in June, to be able to send delegates to the Convention. Sen. Clinton has no rights to any delegates from there anyway. The rules are the rules, Floridians, and Michigans voted to violate the rules. I am not 100% about the Democratic Party, but I am 100% against splitting the Party.

[Little Star]

63. NO friggin Caucuses!!!!! Those states are primary voting states,

if need be let them re-vote. Caucuses disenfranchise tons of voters. Don't make me go drag out the list of who gets disenfranchise by a caucus again. I've posted the list a Brazilian times already.

[Yael]

67. That is against party rules -- they can't reprimary but they can add a caucus.

Sorry Hillary's ground game doesn't do well in those -- but thems the rules!

[Little Star]

68. link?