sfecap
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Wed Dec-31-03 01:51 PM
Original message |
The DINO dilemma: Clark or Lieberman? |
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Let's face it...we've got two DINOs in the race. Which is the better candidate? I say it would have to be Lieberman.
Lieberman has a voting record. He's strong on national defense. He supported, and continues to support the Iraq War. He's got name recognition. He polls relatively well.
Then there is Clark. A "new" (literally) Democrat. He's strong on defense. He praises the bush* administration. He has neocon colleagues. He votes for repukes. He's flip flopped on the Iraq war, but he looked good on CNN when he was promoting it.
If you want a tried and true DINO with legislative experience and good name recognition, go with Joe.
If you want a new DINO, who is a political neophyte, with no legislative experience, Wes is your guy. Of course, Wes has the "fear factor" going for him. Elect an ex General, and he'll keep you "safe"!
It's a tough choice, but I say go with the more experienced DINO.
BTW...rumor has it that Zell Miller will be endorsing Clark soon.
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Wed Dec-31-03 01:51 PM
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WhoCountsTheVotes
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Wed Dec-31-03 01:53 PM
Response to Original message |
2. There's at least three |
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DINO is right - Dean is a Rockefeller Republican.
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jmaier
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Wed Dec-31-03 01:54 PM
Response to Original message |
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I'd like you to point out any set of Clark's policy issue position statements that point him significantly to the right of Gov Dean or reveal a DINO-like character. I'm betting that you can't.
This thread is a smear and inflammatory and if your candidate needs this type of support to win the primary then God help the democratic party.
And yes, I do protest often when alleged Clark supporters behave like adolescents.
Wes Clark. He will make an extraordinary American President.
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sfecap
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Wed Dec-31-03 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #3 |
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Gee, I sure didn't mean to smear Lieberman. He's been a registered Democrat for many years.
I don't recall him speaking at any republican fundraisers.
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windansea
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Wed Dec-31-03 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #5 |
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see a tank in your rear view mirror??
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bowens43
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Wed Dec-31-03 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #3 |
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because of the lack of a verifiable record all we have is Clark's word as to what his position is on any issue but his recent voting history and praise for republican administrations (including the current administration) belie his words. As the general said, he would be a republican if Rove had returned his calls.
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CMT
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Wed Dec-31-03 01:56 PM
Response to Original message |
4. If it came down to Joe vs. Clark |
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I would reluctantly choose Joe. Why? While he is too hawkish on international affairs for my liking he does have a demonstrated, generally liberal domestic record.
BTW, I thought Zell endorsed Bush for 2004?
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bowens43
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Wed Dec-31-03 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #4 |
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I never thought that I would chose Lieberman over anyone...then Clark entered the race.
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MysticMind
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Wed Dec-31-03 01:58 PM
Response to Original message |
6. On DU anyone not as far left as Mao is considered a DINO |
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Now they're even saying Dean is a Republican. What a joke. I hate extremists who demonize every candidate who isn't "pure" enough.
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BobbyJay
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Wed Dec-31-03 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #6 |
8. I know, it's ridiculous. |
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Whoever becomes mainstream becomes un-liberal.
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dolstein
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Wed Dec-31-03 01:59 PM
Response to Original message |
7. The False Dilemma Dilemma |
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Edited on Wed Dec-31-03 02:00 PM by dolstein
Why is it that so many supporters of Howard Dean are so quick to brand other candidates as DINOs? I guess they're only following the lead of their chosen candidate, who claims that he alone repreesents the "Democratic wing" of the Democratic Party and recently dismissed the DLC (and, by extension, Bill Clinton) as the "Republican wing" of the Democratic Party.
Well, all I can say is that this lifelong Democrat would be far more comfortable backing someone like Clark or Lieberman in the general election than Howard Dean.
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Padraig18
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Wed Dec-31-03 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #7 |
10. I absolutely disassociate myself with those remarks. |
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Not every Dean supporter feels this way. I wish I could make stupid, flame bait posts like that one go away. Sorry... :shrug:
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Rowdyboy
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Wed Dec-31-03 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #10 |
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noway you can keep asses from posting flames. I've tried on my side and failed-at least you make the effort.
What a pity that some can only resort to baseless namecalling and accusations.
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Padraig18
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Wed Dec-31-03 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #18 |
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The kind of flame bait this post represents is completely uncalled for, and helps Gov. Dean not at all.
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_NorCal_D_
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Wed Dec-31-03 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #10 |
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I really want to like Dean, though on more than one occasion certain Dean supporters have completely destroyed that possibility.
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Jerseycoa
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Wed Dec-31-03 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #10 |
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I was just about to turn nasty, but you stopped me short.
I'm going to ignore this thread for the sake of New Years Eve. I might have to start drinking early though :beer:
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bowens43
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Wed Dec-31-03 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #7 |
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He's been a Democrat for a whopping 3 months.
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dolstein
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Wed Dec-31-03 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #17 |
38. Well, he's voted Democrat since 1992 |
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He voted for Clinton twice and Gore in 2000. Plus, I'm always willing to welcome new Democrats into the fold. Besides, Eisenhower had been a Republican for a very short period of time when he ran for president in 1952, and he helped revive a party that had been shut out of the White House for twenty years. I think Clark could do wonders for the image of the Democratic Party. I also think that Clark is one of the only Democrats who could effectively campaign in the South. I want to get rid of Bush, and I think Clark had a far better shot at achieving that goal than Dean does.
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private_ryan
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Wed Dec-31-03 02:02 PM
Response to Original message |
9. Clark not Marxists enough for you? |
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Clark at least has a chance.
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Wed Dec-31-03 02:04 PM
Response to Original message |
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sfecap
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Wed Dec-31-03 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #12 |
19. Hi net nanny, thank you for the scolding. |
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But differing opinions are allowed here, the last time I checked. Or maybe not?
If you don't like it, I suggest you don't read it.
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Wed Dec-31-03 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #19 |
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Padraig18
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Wed Dec-31-03 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #21 |
Padraig18
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Wed Dec-31-03 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #19 |
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But obviously someone who knows better than to post pure, flame-bait bull that does nothing to help Gov. Dean. :grr:
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sfecap
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Wed Dec-31-03 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #22 |
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Lieberman had been relentlessly attacked here for being a DINO. I don't recall your outrage.
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Padraig18
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Wed Dec-31-03 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #26 |
28. Then you've not read very carefully. |
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Edited on Wed Dec-31-03 02:18 PM by Padraig18
I've defended Joe on here a LOT. Do you REALLY think you're helping Gov. Dean with this sort of gutter-level, flame bait?
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sfecap
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Wed Dec-31-03 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #28 |
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Relax. It's just a discussion board.
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Padraig18
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Wed Dec-31-03 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #31 |
36. It's also supposed to attempt to be civil. |
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Your post doesn't even have a nodding acquaintance with the word.
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sfecap
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Wed Dec-31-03 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #36 |
39. I think my post is very civil. |
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And well presented. You may not like the message, but don't attack the messenger.
Now there must be many other uncivil threads that you could be monitoring here, isn't there?
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Padraig18
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Wed Dec-31-03 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #39 |
43. What is it about 'turning off fellow Democrats' you don't understand? |
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Your post is the most rank sort of flame bait.
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sfecap
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Wed Dec-31-03 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #43 |
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Edited on Wed Dec-31-03 02:34 PM by sfecap
Highly recommended.
See post #32.
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Padraig18
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Wed Dec-31-03 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #47 |
54. Power switch on your comp. |
sfecap
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Wed Dec-31-03 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #54 |
56. Reflecting on your tone. |
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Wed Dec-31-03 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #56 |
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sfecap
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Wed Dec-31-03 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #58 |
60. Bobby...not very nice. |
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Please reconsider your language. And have a very nice day.
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Wed Dec-31-03 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #60 |
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BeyondGeography
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Wed Dec-31-03 02:05 PM
Response to Original message |
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on the issues, which are fully detailed on his website, would have him excommunicated from the Republican party. The man is a Democrat, and we're lucky to have him on our side.
Next canard, please.
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sfecap
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Wed Dec-31-03 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #14 |
29. He would have been a republican.... |
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...if only Rove had returned his calls. LOL.
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meow mix
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Wed Dec-31-03 02:05 PM
Response to Original message |
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and a great example of why i disagree with the style of the dean campaign. pure bs.
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BOSSHOG
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Wed Dec-31-03 02:05 PM
Response to Original message |
16. I read your post and similar ones |
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and I'm supposed to be civil to your overtures of supporting your candidate? Me thinks it is time for Dean supporters to unload themselves of the chip on their shoulders. It apparently is getting heavy.
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John_H
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Wed Dec-31-03 02:13 PM
Response to Original message |
24. LOL! Dean raises money from Wal-Mart, Pfizer, Boeing, and the NRA and |
HFishbine
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Wed Dec-31-03 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #24 |
61. And, of course, you can substantiate those assertions |
_NorCal_D_
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Wed Dec-31-03 02:15 PM
Response to Original message |
25. Zell Miller has already |
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proclaimed that he will be supporting and voting for Bush. Next time do a little research before spewing such inflammatory crap.
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sfecap
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Wed Dec-31-03 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #25 |
Padraig18
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Wed Dec-31-03 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #27 |
BobbyJay
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Wed Dec-31-03 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #27 |
45. Their policies for one thing. |
edzontar
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Wed Dec-31-03 02:20 PM
Response to Original message |
32. OK-I am assuming this thread is a parody of the anti-Dean threads |
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The language is so similar that this just has to be the case/
I certainly found myself laughing, which is not usually the case in these threads.
So, for the moment, I am assuming this is a joke.
Am I right?
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sfecap
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Wed Dec-31-03 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #32 |
BobbyJay
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Wed Dec-31-03 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #35 |
42. Unfortunately it isn't |
edzontar
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Wed Dec-31-03 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #42 |
44. He ADMITTED it was a satire!!!!! |
BobbyJay
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Wed Dec-31-03 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #44 |
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If it is satire, it is pointless. What is the point of this? Just to piss people off?
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sfecap
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Wed Dec-31-03 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #46 |
51. Does calling members "morons" piss them off? |
BobbyJay
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Wed Dec-31-03 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #51 |
53. Not as much as starting inflamatory threads |
sfecap
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Wed Dec-31-03 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #53 |
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You don't even have to read them. LOL.
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BobbyJay
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Wed Dec-31-03 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #57 |
59. Unfortunately when you include the name calling IN THE TITLE |
sfecap
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Wed Dec-31-03 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #44 |
meow mix
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Wed Dec-31-03 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #44 |
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Edited on Wed Dec-31-03 02:38 PM by meow mix
he does it constantly, and the pretends like "itsa joke"
his statements further down, more accurately show us what is motivating this behavior. (a twisted view of reality)
one sec, here ok.
"Bold and honest assessments are only permitted here if it reflects poorly on Howard Dean. Any others will invoke outrage and scolding from net nanny"
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OKNancy
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Wed Dec-31-03 02:22 PM
Response to Original message |
liberalnurse
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Wed Dec-31-03 02:22 PM
Response to Original message |
34. This is a bold and honest assessment. |
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Edited on Wed Dec-31-03 02:25 PM by liberalnurse
Lieberman does have strong democratic history; VP ticket with Gore tops the list. Clark is new on the block without any, nada democratic history...only words.
I never looked at this angle before. It deems recognition as a responsible voter.
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sfecap
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Wed Dec-31-03 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #34 |
37. Bold and honest assessments... |
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...are only permitted here if it reflects poorly on Howard Dean.
Any others will invoke outrage and scolding from net nanny. :-)
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edzontar
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Wed Dec-31-03 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #37 |
48. Actually, although you admit this is a joke, you make a good point |
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Regarding Lieberman....
NOT enouh to make me like him very very much, but a fair case for his loyalty overall to the Dem social-economic agenda.
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Wed Dec-31-03 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #37 |
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Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
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Rowdyboy
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Wed Dec-31-03 02:55 PM
Response to Original message |
63. Thank God for Dean supporters like Padraig who help |
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me suppress the nausea I feel in reading the trash that passes for "satire". Thankfully, most Dean supporters have way more class than is shown here.
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chiburb
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Wed Dec-31-03 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #63 |
64. Only one problem with Padraig's posts... |
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I always read them because he's intelligent and thoughtful. But... to me it looks like he's having a conversation with himself. Oh well...
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windansea
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Wed Dec-31-03 03:09 PM
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Moderator
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Wed Dec-31-03 03:20 PM
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1. If you start a thread in the General Discussion forum, you must present your opinion in a manner that is not inflammatory, which respects differences in opinion, and which is likely to lead to respectful discussion rather than flaming. Some examples of things which should generally be avoided are: unnecessarily hot rhetoric, nicknames for prominent Democrats or their supporters, broad-brush statements about groups of people, single-sentence "drive-by" thread topics, etc.
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