After seeing Clinton speak, I am even more convinced that Obama made the right choice

[EffieBlack]

Clinton did an excellent job, but the setting was awkward. Instead of being a part of the event - which was a symposium with a series of group conversations, she was tacked on at the end and expected to give a speech - which she did well - and then answer questions - which she also did extremely well. I have no doubt that the audience was impressed with her. But her segment was oddly dissonant from the rest of the event.

Had Obama gone, he would have been in the same situation. And having both of them there would have turned the event into a circus. It would not have been an interesting, engaging give-and-take discussion, but would have been turned into a media frenzy: "Clinton v. Obama in Front of the Black People - Who Will Be Left Standing?"

Watching Clinton made it even clearer to me that Tavis Smiley's insistence that both she and Obama appear was somewhat of a PR stunt since the appearances in no way complimented the overall event.

Again, I thought she did an outstanding job and her grace and graciousness, knowledge and genuine connection to the audience impressed and touched me. And she probably helped to mend some fences that were damaged in South Carolina, which she needed to do - and will have to continue to do some more. But I'm glad that Obama did not go and I'll bet he is, too.

[Rageneau]

1. Are you saying that Obama would have looked weak compared to Hillary?

[Schema Thing]

3. reading comprehension is a beautiful thing. get some.

[Rageneau]

6. In English, we begin our sentences with capital letters.

And the smarter of us can recognize a rhetorical question when we see one.

[EffieBlack]

5. No.

[wellstone dem]

2. I was surprised at how little time they gave her

to take time out of her campaign to come on for that brief period helps me understand why Senator Obama did not attend.

[EffieBlack]

8. Me, too

After all that she went through to go there, to introduce her by saying she was going to speak for 5 minutes was very strange. Fortunately, she took more time than they apparently alotted her.

[anamandujano]

14. They were already out of time. Tavis kept thanking CSPAN for letting

them run over.

[anamandujano]

15. PS--Obama should have attended.

I've no doubt that even the audience, not to mention the panelists, while supporting him in just about everything, would have liked him there.

[EffieBlack]

17. Lots of audiences at lots of events in lots of places probably would like Obama to speak to them

Including the audiences that he DID speak to today. He can't be everywhere and I will bet you that most of the people in the State of the Black Union audience had aleady been to events where Obama spoke.

He can't be everywhere and this event would not have been a good use of his time - especially considering how little time he would have had to speak and answer questions.

[anamandujano]

21. Different kettle of fish, and you know it.

I actually don't think he is going to do much of anything to advance their issues.

He has been running toward the Repukes so fast, his upper body is out in front of his feet a couple of yards.

It's going to be interesting to see how his present supporters in the black community react once they see how badly he burns them.

[EffieBlack]

24. You seem to believe you're an expert on the views of the black community - why don't you tell us how

we should react?

[DemGa]

4. In S.C.? You mean that trumped up race-baiting charge?

Stop stating conjecture as fact.

[EffieBlack]

7. Regardless whether you think it's a "trumped up" charge

Hillary Clinton's standing in the black community has dropped. She went to Louisiana in an effort to shore it back up. I admire her for that.

So please spare me the snarky drive-by attempt to hijack this thread with bullshit strawmen.

[DemGa]

11. delete

[EffieBlack]

13. I didn't say anything about race-baiting. You jumped into this thread trying to provoke something

and inserted an issue that I did not raise.

I simply said that fences were damaged in S.C. - and they were. You obviously have a sore spot about something that has nothing to do with my post. I suggest you go work it out elsewhere.

[Forkboy]

29. Stop acting human as if it's a fact.

[bigtree]

9. I'm happy because I think he would have completely upstaged her.

:-)

[EffieBlack]

10. I think his appearance would have upstaged the entire event

No matter what he said or did, it would have become the Obama show.

Tavis Smiley should thank his lucky stars that Obama declined.

[anamandujano]

22. Was it better for her to be upstaged by all the anger,

much of which was unfairly focused on her?

[EffieBlack]

26. I didn't see any anger focused on her.

But, of course, you WOULD see it that way - given your view that these were a bunch of stupid-mouthed black people doing the talking, right?

[iconocrastic]

28. Wow, do you have issues or what?

[ronnykmarshall]

12. Jeepers!!!

[jasmine621]

16. It was supposed to be an opportunity in for the audience to also

ask questions and hear from the candidates. It was awkward because no one showed up except Hillary. She was virtually mauled by the panel appearing before her and was not present to respond in her own defense. In addition, about half of the audience departed before Sen Clinton made her appearance (which i thought was rude since she did take the time from her campaign to come to the event). I would much rather have had her on stage with the rest of the panel taking questions and making statements. But she is courageous to even attend knowing full well what this primary and the Obama supporters have done to her and Bill's standing with many blacks. I thought her response to the question about the charges made against Bill were excellent with the proper deference and tone and sincerity.

[anamandujano]

18. All I could think is, "Let no good deed go unpunished."

It would have been nice to see her with the panel, I agree.

Shame on Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and Dick Gregory. I missed the first panel; I'm sure there were others running their stupid mouths and doing the black community no good at all.

Did they ever hear about attacking the enemy, not your long standing friends?

[EffieBlack]

23. First of all - no one ran their "stupid mouths" All of the panelists are intelligent, articulate,

rational and compelling thinkers and speakers.

Second, no one trashed either the Clintons or Obama.

And, as for whether they did "the black community" any "good at all" why don't you leave that determination up to the black community?

[Beacool]

30. I can't stand Jesse Jackson Jr. ever since he said the B.S.

about her emotional moment in NH and questioned why she hadn't cried over Katrina. I don't remember his guy crying either. Furthermore, it was Hillary who invited Obama to tag along with her when she went to New Orleans after Katrina. As far as I'm concerned, Jesse Jr. is a race bating SOB!!!!!!!!

As for Sharpton, what can one say about the guy? He has done some good for the community, but most of the time he seems to be concerned with one cause: promoting himself.

[EffieBlack]

31. Jesse Jr. wasn't there. It was Rev. Jackson

[Beacool]

36. Oops, sorry!!!

I took a quick look and thought that I saw him in the panel. I have no beef with Rev. Jackson.

:blush:

[EffieBlack]

19. Tavis tried to tack on a "candidates forum" onto the end of his symposium and it didn't work

It would have been even worse if Obama HAD come since he and Clinton probably would not have agreed to appear on stage together (since that would have technically made it a "debate" which they don't do except under very specific circumstances), so it would have been even more awkward.

It ended up looking like two totally different events.

[goldcanyonaz]

32. It was beyond rude. She's a much better woman than I because I would have cruised.

[iconocrastic]

20. "her grace and graciousness"? Try this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9CRgFO2mnM&eurl

[EffieBlack]

25. No, thank you. Why don't YOU try it? I'm not going to engage in your petty bullshit.

[iconocrastic]

27. If you don't want to see Her Majesty at her best, that's up to you

But "petty bullshit" is EXACTLY what HRC is displaying in this video.

Very precise choice of words.

[UALRBSofL]

33. Effie, I wished Hillary had been there when Dyuss

Dick Gregory, and Jessie Jackson were there. I think that was the best part of the event. There was a lot of excitement and electricity in the air.

[TexasObserver]

34. The panel was compelling. Hillary's speech was boring, out of place, and a let down.

She's lucky they let her speak, and lucky everyone didn't leave, instead of only about 30% leaving before she spoke. She's lucky she had Tavis there to plead for people to stay, and to protect her.

Her political purpose clearly was not welcome at this black symposium, and her appearance was clearly the most uninteresting part of the entire day.

I thoroughly enjoyed the panel. As I have told other whites for decades, if you want to know what black people think, go to churches or public meetings that are run by blacks, where blacks are doing all the talking, shut up and listen. Don't try to ask questions. Don't try to be a part of it. Just watch and listen.

[EffieBlack]

37. I blame Tavis for this, not Sen. Clinton

He was the one who invited her and he could have included her in a way that made more sense.

As I've said before, this was not about letting people learn more about the candidates or giving the candidates an opportunity to connect with voters. This was about Tavis and his bragging rights.

You make an excellent point about listening to what black folk have to say. Too often, some white people believe they are experts about blacks and spend more time telling us what we supposedly think or what we should think than actually trying to find out what we really are thinking - and they often seem surprised to discover that we're thinking at all.

I would add another place people should go to learn - barber shops and beauty salons. Those locations are often our "town square!"

I'm convinced that one of the reasons that Obama is doing so well and seems to have his finger on the pulse of not just the black community, but many different communities is that, until very recently, he has gotten his hair cut in the same small barbershop on the south side of Chicago. If you want to know community, spend an hour or so in a black barbershop.

[TexasObserver]

38. I felt the Black Convention was simply not the place for a candidate speech.

Remember when Jesse used to say about busing "it's not the bus, it's US!"

I felt the conference was about blacks, and bringing in a candidate is incongruous. Up until then, it had been such a great symposium. I really, really enjoyed it, and it is the kind of window into the real black world that many whites need to see, listen and learn. I find most of the characterizations of blacks in TV sitcoms to be downright offensive. I'd use a term that some of my black friends use privately to describe that quasi minstrel show atmosphere best exemplified in Spike Lee's excellent film Bamboozled, but it would involve using the "c" word with the "ing" ending, and I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.

I have been in black beauty shops and barber shops, always with a black friend as my "passport." By that I mean someone who is a friend, who can say "this guy is cool, he's a friend." I never, ever try to preach to blacks about what they "need to do," which is what so many white people do the first time they think they're good friends with a black person.

I've been in black churches more times than I can count, and have always loved the experience. Theme dressing the ladies do, for example, is something you never see in white churches. Black churches are just more fun, that's all there is to it.

Anyway, I enjoy your comments and know from them you are for real. I've seen some here who claim to be black that I don't feel that way about.

[EffieBlack]

39. I really enjoy your take on all of this.

You are so interesting.

Black churches are fun, aren't they? Reminds me of the line from Purlie Victorious: "Being colored sure is fun . . . when nobody's looking!"

Seriously, one of the more interesting phenomena in our society is how black Americans are much more familiar with and comfortable with whites than vice versa. I think this is a historical thing dating back to slavery when slaves were virtually invisible to whites. They lived in "the big house," interacted with the families, suckled and raised the babies, served the meals, attended to the owners' most intimate needs, etc. As a result, they heard, saw and learned everything about their masters. On the other hand, for the most part, the white slaveowners hardly noticed the slaves' existence, much less learned much about their lives, culture, thoughts, and opinions.

My grandmother once told me that her mother, who was a slave, said that the slaves on their plantation were more knowledgeable about the Civil War, political issues, military strategy, etc. because they overheard all of the discussions of well-connected, powerful people at the dinner table, who spoke in front of the house servants as if they didn't exist. The house servants would take the information back to the slave quarters and, as a result, the slave community was much more informed than poor and middle-class whites.

I think this phenomenon has continued to this day, to a lesser degree. Because whites still control so much of society - including the political structure and media - blacks have been exposed to and immersed in and are, thus, extremely familiar with white culture, politics, etc. Many of these segments of our society continue to ignore blacks to a great extent and, in fact, in order for black people to be included in them, they must "leave their blackness at the door," and subsume themselves in white culture - it's often called "transcending race," but it really means, don't talk or think about any black stuff and we'll let you hang with us. As a result, we have a very clear, sharp, and deep understanding of white culture - and we can even mimic it extremely well (witness the bilingual skills of many blacks - our "white voice" and our "black voice").

But unless a white person makes a special effort, as you have, they can pretty much go through life, have successful careers and very full lives without any meaningful interaction with or depth of understanding of blacks. Sure, whites and blacks have regular contact, but many of these contacts are very superficial and don't give whites a real understanding of black culture or thought. And many white folks - some of them right here on DU - will actually get pissed off at the thought that there IS black culture or thought that is any way different than white culture and thought and insist that the latter is AMERICAN or HUMAN while the former is some kind of separatist aberration that should be let go in favor of embracing "American {i.e., white"} values."

What they don't understand is that black culture, too, is AMERICAN and that white culture CAN'T be fully American without it. As Dr. West so eloquently said yesterday, we don't have and don't need a color blind society, since such a society turns a blind eye to the richness and beauty of our various cultures. We need to have a society that embraces, respects and enjoys everyone's culture.

So, I really appreciate your thoughtfulness and your efforts to learn more about all people. I hope more people do just what you're doing.

[TexasObserver]

40. You wrote "one of the more interesting phenomena in our society is how black Americans are ...

You wrote "one of the more interesting phenomena in our society is how black Americans are much more familiar with and comfortable with whites than vice versa." That is so true. And for the reasons you cite.

Black people are constantly called upon to be the only black person in a room full of white/other people. White people are never called upon to do that. You have to make a real effort to be the only white person in a group of black people.

Most white people could not do it and would not try it. I had a unique experience as a child, going to many black churches, where the only white people were my dad and me. We'd go home with some family after church and have "dinner" (lunch) and that is where I first learned how to be around black people in their churches and homes, and be at ease. It was great fun, and made me into a person who always feels simpatico with blacks, not alien to them. Blacks can tell in a heartbeat which whites are comfortable in the black community and which are not. I really pity people who have never had a meal in a black home, never been where black people are entirely comfortable and not measuring their conduct to fit some white expectations.

It's the same with all cultures. I've learned the Hispanic culture similarly. You have to immerse yourself in the culture of others - surrender entirely to it - if you want to learn it and accept it fully. I find all cultures and subcultures are accepting, but most white people never make the effort.

ACCEPTANCE of others is what it's all about. Talk is cheap. You have to put your narrow behind in a pew, or chair, in the black or Hispanic or Asian cultures, all of which are wonderful in their own way.

My son teaches International Studies and Languages at a university, and it's because the apple does not fall far from the tree. I taught him, just as my dad taught me in the 1950s and 1960s. Fear is the thing that causes most whites to avoid learning more about the real black community, not the imaginary one that exists only in their heads.

I agree with Dr. West. We don't need a color blind society. We need a society that sees and appreciates the vast differences in cultures and subcultures, and accepts each one on its terms. I wince every time I hear a white person say that trite "I don't care if a person is black or white or green." If they say that, YES, they do care and they're trying to cloak it. I want the full range of the rainbow, and all the fascinating cultures and subcultures that make it up. ACCEPTANCE is a real thing, not just a word.

[krkaufman]

35. FYI... Some people have no clue as to what event you're talking about. nt

[REACTIVATED IN CT]

41. State of the Black Union

an event run by Tavis Smiley - held yesterday in NOLA -
Broadcast by CSPAN. I enjoy his show on the radio every Sat. AM from WLIU on Long Island

The only part I have been able to see so far is HRC's speech and the Q&A with Tavis. I thought she came off well - if only she can keep that tone and does not cause a split in the party.

[krkaufman]

42. thx for the info. n/t

[dajoki]

43. Obama offered to send his wife...

but Tavis Smiley wisely refused.