Without Clinton Democrats working for him in the general election...

[Sybbis]

Barack Obama has a huge problem, one that could shit-can his campaign.

I've worked for every Democratic nominee since Jimmy Carter. Hell, my mother had me out hanging door flyers for George McGovern when I was a kid.

Sadly, after what he and his supporters have done to the Democratic Party this election cycle, I will not be working for Barack Obama's campaign if he wins the nomination. I know quite a few experienced, serious, veteran Democratic campaigners all across the country who feel exactly the same way. It actually seems to be getting worse, rather than improving at all.

I asked one of Obama's college kids about this recently. He very enthusiastically said, "Oh we're bringing in new voters and young people. They'll do the work!" I almost laughed at his ignorance about young, inexperienced campaign volunteers. I managed not to giggle and wished him luck. You can't tell kids anything.

So, current Obamaniacs who have already worked two or three presidential campaigns, you know what I'm talking about. If he wins the nomination and loses a huge percentage of experienced, reliable, Democratic campaign workers - seriously - what are you going to do?

[Name removed]

1. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sniffa]

2. I care

Series!!1! :hug:

[KhaOZ]

159. She divides again.

[thunder rising]

3. The torch has been passed. If you wish to sideline yourself OK, but you'll be back. from a Deaniac

[mrreowwr_kittty]

23. Former Clarkie here.

Amazing how these Clinton folks assume that we'll obligingly jump over to help her like we did for Kerry. Sorry, but while Kerry wasn't perfect, he wasn't a slimy campaigner either.

[Cha]

41. I'm a Deaniac and Kerry, I found out,

is a real class act. Who could have predicted hilary would try and meltdown the Dem Party with her own words.

[thunder rising]

78. No win with Hill, if she becomes President she'll fire Howard Dean, loses and it's scorched earth.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

127. worse, what if she puts Mark (Blackwater) Penn in her cabinet

cause she is paying him millions a month to give her all of this "great" advice.

[Eurobabe]

147. DraftClarkie here, Kerry was Mother Theresa compared to HRC

Sorry Wes, but I cannot support your candidate of choice.

[krkaufman]

162. Yep, I, too, was a Clark supporter in '04, and was disappointed ...

... to see him get behind HRC this cycle -- especially given that Obama is the candidate echoing Clark's call to reach-out to independents and Republicans to grow the Party.

[Sybbis]

61. There's so much political work to be done, of all kinds...

It's not exactly a hardship to focus more on other issues that we work on in-between elections anyway.

Still, I have yet to see a substantive answer to my question. I guess Obama supporters really have no interest in the campaign work and experience of other Democrats.

Good luck to them with that.

[madfloridian]

66. Pure arrogance

[Nederland]

71. Quite honestly

As I look at the ineffectiveness of the Clinton campaign I'm not sure all that campaign work and experience is worth much...

[Sybbis]

82. A general election is different than the primaries...

The turnout is two to three times higher. All voting occurs on the same day across the nation. Some people only work for the nominee every four years and don't get involved in working the primaries.

But hey - like I said upthread, if you guys have all the seasoned Democratic campaign workers you need to win a general election, best of luck.

[Nederland]

185. Hillary supporters who won't work for Obama

...are either petty or lack true dedication to liberal politics. I don't believe there are as many of those people as you claim, and frankly we don't need them anyway. During the primary Obama has energized and brought in so many new people that he more than makes up for a handful of sniveling whiners who want to take their ball and go home.

[sniffa]

180. indeed

:thumbsup:

[Big Blue Marble]

121. You are drunk on your own arrogance.

Most Democratic activists want to win the presidency. They will work for our candidate. Obama
will win with or without your support.

He will have the money and the support that he needs. Many experienced Dems will be excited to
join him. It looks like a few here and there have already done so.

Do not worry. Obama will be fine without you. So take your pretty little marbles and go home.

[Sybbis]

132. It's so sad that you can't even talk about this issue...

I'm glad to learn that all of the seasoned Democratic campaigners who have been turned off by/to Obama are no loss. Best of luck.

[Big Blue Marble]

150. What in the hell are we going to do about it?

Gees if you are turned off, you are turned off. Why would we want a turned-off campaigner working with
us anyway? It you do not like him, you sure would not being working very hard to help him win.

I think you are more than a little too much in love with yourself as a Dem activist. Go do something you really
like and leave us to work for Obama. Somehow we will manage without you.

[Sybbis]

152. The thing is, I do like him - it's YOU I can't stand...

He's never been my choice for Democratic nominee but I liked the guy. I always said that he had a great future in our Party. Now, while I like him considerably less than I used to, I still enjoy some things about him. He does give a hell of a set speech. Many experienced political people feel that way. In a lot of ways it's his supporters who have turned people off so completely.

Working on a campaign is a grueling business and something you volunteer to do. You have to feel some sort of kinship with the people you are trapped alongside for month after month after month, slaving away. To many, participating in the election as we normally would isn't looking like a good possibility. We don't want to spend all that time with people who are obnoxious and abusive towards us. But you don't want to look at that. You don't want to discuss that. You can't even acknowledge it as a reality and a detriment to your candidate.

Well, it is a reality. It's something that you guys are going to have to man up and deal with, but apparently you're not quite ready for that yet. So, as far as Obama supporters are concerned, seasoned Democratic campaign workers are absolutely not needed. Got it. Best of luck.

[Big Blue Marble]

154. Yes I know it hard work to volunteer.

As I told you downthread, I have been volunteering in campaigns much longer than you have. Guess what?
I am seasoned too. As many of us here are. If you think we are under 20 or something, you are missing the point.

You are making so much shit up. You come on DU very recently and act so superior to us Obama supporters.
Then you tell us we are abusive and and obnoxious and how you do not want to work with us.

You are the one with the chip on your shoulder. Get over yourself.

[Sybbis]

158. Good luck to you!

[JeanGrey]

198. Look, your guy (or girl) lost. Get over it. LIfe goes on.

How many times can you say the same thing in three different posts?

[Political Heretic]

168. The "Experience" the Clinton camp has shown so far is to run one of the worst campaigns in history.

They are out of touch, and out of date.

It's not that we don't want to work together or want your support. It's just that your not in a position to use clinton "credentials" as some sort of a threat. Work with the rest of YOUR party to support its nominee, or don't. But forgive me if I'm not going to lose sleep over it.

[Eurobabe]

191. Anyone smell a pizza coming?

[democrattotheend]

75. I vowed that I wouldn't campaign for Kerry

But I caved and spent the last few weekends before the election traveling to West Virginia, Ohio, and Philadelphia knocking on doors. I hope Clinton supporters will come around, but Obama has already attracted such a groundswell of volunteers that I'm not too worried about it.

[Dark]

4. Both sides are saying that.

Honestly, I think that looking at another four years of Republicans in the whitehouse, after the last eight, will make people realize the importance of this election.

[Garbo 2004]

64. You would think so, but according to some I've seen here, some say just don't care. n/t

[mrbluto]

91. Not merely saying - DECLARING!

What is the difference between the two?

Not much.

Neither have much principles that I can tell.

One's "inspiring" and hangs with LIEberman the other has a well-oiled machine that employs Mark Penn (Blackwater PR guy).

Can you blame me for being less than excited with my choices?

The difference between the two is not the difference between chocolate and vanilla - it's the difference between vanilla and french vanilla.

I'm tempted to vote for Nader. I'm starting to warm up to the wisdom of "it's gotta get worse before it'll get better."

Neither candidate is committed to actually punishing the people in the current administration and their ilk - you know, the ones that don't like actual democracy, the ones for whom democracy is the snake oil that makes the public accede to their oligarchic manachian plans.

If those guys don't see a negative expected value to their coup attempts they'll just try again and again and again.

The media has chosen our candidates - what can we expect?

Not much.

[Garbo 2004]

93. OK. But Nader won't be the one making Supreme Court appointments. n/t

[mrbluto]

100. Wow. What a well reasoned response.

You're right - at this rate it'll be McCain.

The Democratic party is starting to look like the Washington Generals.

You know - the team that plays the Harlem Globetrotters.

[Garbo 2004]

116. OK, try this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4748085&mesg_id=4750825

Or far better, this: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4653714

[mrbluto]

134. Wow. Those are informative links you pointed out.

Really.

Took me a bit to read.

<sigh>

Well...I only said I was tempted to vote for Nader.

Never said I would.

What? What do you want me to say?

...OK Fine!

I'll vote for whoever the Democrats nominate.

But I won't like it!

Man, I really wanted Edwards.

#$@%* Kool-aide drink'n idiots! Hillbots, Obamiacs. Grumble.

Maybe we can have a brokered convention?

[Garbo 2004]

166. Thanks for taking the time to read. Time for Change's long post on the SCOTUS was worth it, I hope.

Yeah, I was partial to Edwards too.

[pocoloco]

5. Obama over McCain and McCain over Hillary

Case closed

[mrbluto]

96. How lucky for you.

That in your world you get to say "case closed" and that's the end of it.

The real world might not be so charmed by this approach.

[Political Heretic]

170. The "real word" needs to look at "reality-based" polls and forget about being "charmed."

No polls show it otherwise, though the point differences vary slightly.

Obama beats McCain. McCain beats Clinton.

[Adelante]

6. There are many, many experienced Dem activists in Obama's camp

Don't think you are the only seasoned Democrats and we would be oh, so lost without you. Stop stereotyping and you may be able to see what is happening here.

[Sybbis]

54. Okay, if you've got enough campaign workers already...

then best of luck to you.

[thevoiceofreason]

60. Certainly we want you to work for Obama

If you aren't able to (for whatever reason), please help the party by working for your local senate, congressional or local candidate with the same enthusiasm that you would have given Hillary. Luckily, there are plenty jobs and slots up and down the ticket to go around.

[woolldog]

80. What a bunch of self-important

hogwash.

Given the lack of grassroots type organizational skills Clinton has shown so far this campaign, I'm not sure it matters as much as you think it does.

[Big Blue Marble]

123. Well.........

it sure doesn't sound like you would have much to add anyway.

[Sybbis]

137. Hmm...

Since you apparently didn't read the OP, I've worked on every Democratic campaign since Jimmy Carter's. So, again, best of luck.

[Big Blue Marble]

146. You Sybbis missed my point.

It is not that you do not have experience. You have let us all know how important that experience is.

It is that you will not bring the energy, dedication, and commitment to a Barack Obama Campaign
that will be necessary for him to win.

Others with the experience necessary will replace you. With your attitude being what it is, we
will not miss you at all.

And FYI, I have been working on Democratic campaigns even longer that you have.

[Sybbis]

153. You think it's just me alone? Okay.

I'm so glad to know that the experience and hard work of the rest of the Democratic Party is not needed by the Obama campaign, due to our lack of fervent devotion to Mr. Obama during the primaries. Of course, no seasoned political person would ever say something like that, so I have to wonder exactly what kind of campaigns you've been working on all these years. Pat Paulson's? I kinda miss him.

[Big Blue Marble]

155. You seem to get some kind of pleasure

in coming on DU and threatening us with the fact that you will not help us in the general.
Then when we tell you to just go away then. You get mad and insult us.

Do you really think we would want to work with someone who is so arrogant and self-important?
As I said before we will just have to get along without you. I hope you find volunteer work
that is more satisfying for you. I am so excited about this campaign, that I will be working
from now to November. And I am not worried about getting all the help we will need.

[Sybbis]

160. Okay, good luck to you!

[Nickster]

7. That's just down right crazy. Would you really want a McCain Presidency? I'm not completely

sold on Obama, but am leaning to him. I'm even less sold on Hillary, but I'll certainly vote for her in the GE. I'm not so short-sighted to take my ball and stay home just because my choice didn't get the nomination.

[Sybbis]

47. I'm not talking about voting, I'm talking about WORKING...

In order to win the vote you have to win the campaign. In order to win the campaign you have to have massive amounts of experienced support. The majority of reliable, experienced campaign workers in both parties are women. The majority of women in the Democratic Party are Hillary Clinton supporters.

I'm talking about all of those women who, every four years, give up their time and devote a lot of energy and work to the Democratic candidate. That's how elections are won and, without them, that's how elections are lost.

Are the Obama people thinking about this at all?

[Nederland]

73. Let's analyze this statement

In order to win the vote you have to win the campaign. In order to win the campaign you have to have massive amounts of experienced support. The majority of reliable, experienced campaign workers in both parties are women. The majority of women in the Democratic Party are Hillary Clinton supporters.

If all of these statements are true, why is Hillary losing?

[Sybbis]

86. Because primaries aren't general elections...

There's a big difference in how each is fought and won.

However, as I have said several times in this thread - if it is your opinion that Obama has all the seasoned Democratic campaign workers he needs to win a general election, best of luck to you.

[muntrv]

83. So how are those "experienced" campaign workers doin' with Hillary's campaign?

[Sybbis]

89. Check NY, CA, MA, NJ, FL, NH, etc.

Seems as if they are doing okay.

But, as I keep saying, if this issue is truly of no concern to Obama supporters and you have all the experienced Democratic general election campaign workers you need - good luck to you.

[muntrv]

90. Obama's been winning all the contests since Super Tuesday.

[Sybbis]

106. Once again...

As I keep saying, if you have all the experienced Democratic campaign workers you need to win a general election - good luck to you.

[muntrv]

111. Oh stop it!! What makes you think that Obama's campaign workers don't

have what it takes to help win the general election? His campaign is more general election than Hillary's. Obama's campaign is going further and wider than Hillary.

[Sybbis]

112. Okay. Good luck!

Seriously. You have it all figured out. You have it wired. You don't need the rest of the experienced campaign workers in the Democratic Party to win a general election against the Republicans. Best of luck to you.

[muntrv]

113. How do you know that Obama has no experienced campaign workers?

Show me proof that only Hillary has the experienced campaign workers. And should the Obama campaign workers just stop what they're doing and copy Hillary's experienced campaign workers?

[boppers]

126. Ohh, muntrv nailed it!

Apparently, we only have "workers that you can Xerox".

[Sybbis]

133. "THE experienced campaign workers?"

That's not what I said, nor does it have any bearing on my point. Did you read the OP or any of my responses on this thread? Jesus.

There are SOME seasoned Democratic campaign workers in both campaigns. Just as there have been SOME in all the Democratic candidates' campaigns.

The issue is that in a general election you need ALL of them to win. If not all, then certainly most. Many seasoned, experienced campaign workers have been completely turned off by Obama and his conduct during the campaign as well as by his supporters (not just on DU) and their behavior during the campaign.

Normally, those of us who have been doing this for years would all actively work for the Democratic nominee's campaign. This year, I know many Democratic veterans who don't have any interest in working for Barack Obama's campaign. It's about a 40/60 split between being put off by Obama himself and avoiding his more obnoxious supporters.

However, I have been told by many, Many, MANY Obama supporters on this thread that our work for the Democratic Party and our experience in general elections is definitely not wanted and certainly not needed. So, clearly, it doesn't matter one bit. Good to know.

[mrbluto]

142. Obama - eh. Supporters - Yech!

If DU is any guide.

I actually know someone who works on the Obama campaign and the Kool-aide thing is apt.

This is a guy who I ussed to play chess with and debate hundreds of various subjects art, ethics, policy, economics, etc. When I asked him "why Obama?" (I liked Edwards at the time) he basically said "I'm not gonna waste my time explaining. I needn't bother."

Nice.

Gives me real confidence that I'm going to get listened to in the future, or that the Obama campaign has any objective other than getting elected.

But as I've said elsewhere in this tread "It doesn't appear I have much choice."

I'll vote for whoever the Democratic nominee is. It just pisses me off that Obamiacs depend on that and treat the rest of us like sh*t.

So excuse my lack of enthusiasm for the upcoming GE.

I'm wishing for a brokered convention. Not just because neither of the actively running candidates thrills me, but also because I think the current dynamic hurts our chances. Will Clinton supporters flip to Obama? A significant portion won't. Will Obama supporters flip to Clinton. Well it seems that'll be a cold day in a certain venue. The "I'd have to think about it" comment from Michelle O. is pretty telling. What - maybe she was waiting for Nader to enter the race?

How can Obama supporters ask for what they weren't willing to give?

That's what left that I want to hear now.

If they can manage that - and not set off my BS detectors - then maybe I actually will have this "hope" I keep hearing about.

[mrbluto]

94. How about if....

...the medias choice got the nomination.

Do you want to validate that?

They have elections in dictatorships too.

Guess what they're for.

[Nickster]

183. I seem to remember Senator Clinton being the media's choice until the voting actually started to

take place.

[mrbluto]

208. Of course.

They're working their way down their list - in descending order of threat.

(with "chance of getting elected" & "inimical to corporate plans" as the compound factors)

1.Kucinich
2.Edwards
3.Clinton
4.Obama

#3 is in progress, then they'll move on to #4.

[polichick]

8. "After what he and his supporters have done"???

I don't see that they've done anything but organize and work for what they believe in ~ a message board is not the real world; I'd bet that those who fight the most here work the least.

This week I attended a meeting for Obama here in PA ~ longtime activists like me were joined by lots of brand new activists to get out the vote here. You really underestimate the enthusiasm out there for Obama on the part of both old and new activists.

[sendero]

24. "what his supporteers have done"...

... is organize and kick the ass of a spoiled little brat who thought she could THUMB HER NOSE at her base and most of America by blathering on about the war needing to go on for an indeterminate period and continuing to vote with George Effin Bush for stuff like Kyl-Lieberman.

She's getting what she had coming, and Obama's getting what he has coming, the presidency.

[Sybbis]

79. Yes, his supporters and his campaign...

"I don't see that they've done anything but organize and work for what they believe in ~ a message board is not the real world; I'd bet that those who fight the most here work the least."

I've been on the internet since it was only available in DOS. I am well aware that cyber-reality is very different from the real world. I posted earlier today about how Obama supporters screamed abuse at a friend of mine while she was out holding up a Hillary sign on Super Tuesday. She had her two young children there with her. I've heard a lot of stories like that from people I know around the country, in addition to what I see here and elsewhere.

"This week I attended a meeting for Obama here in PA ~ longtime activists like me were joined by lots of brand new activists to get out the vote here. You really underestimate the enthusiasm out there for Obama on the part of both old and new activists."

No, I don't doubt the enthusiasm of Obama supporters. I just find them to be inexperienced, sometimes crude and often unwise in how they approach supporting their candidate. They've turned off a lot of experienced Democrats. I'm talking about useful, seasoned campaign workers. People the Obama supporters could have scooped up to share the massive load in a general election, had they been less dickheaded.

Apparently nobody is supposed to mention it around here, but it's the plain truth and it will come back to haunt his campaign.

[scheming daemons]

97. "experienced Democrats"

You "experienced Democrats" have managed to lose 7 of the last 10 Presidential elections. In those last 10 elections, only ONE TIME have we managed to exceed 50% of the vote (1976).


If that is the kind of work you "experienced Democrats" have managed to churn out over the past 40 years.... perhaps it is time for a new set of ideas and a new campaign style.


We want your vote..... but if you can't accept the new realities of what it takes to win a campaign, then it is YOU that needs to re-evaluate things.


Obama has a 50-state ground game second to none in this country. Hillary, your queen, has managed to ignore whole states and regions and is working on a 50%+1 campaign with no margin for error.


Let's just say, you wouldn't be my first choice for advice when looking for good stock tips. You and your ilk killed promising campaigns in 1980 (Kennedy), 1984 (Hart), and 2004 (Dean).... because they had the NERVE to try to energize America's youth.


Your condescending dismissal of millions of *NEW*, young Democrats is ridiculously counter-productive.


NOBODY.... not even Hillary Clinton.... is *ENTITLED* to the nomination. It must be earned. I'm sorry you guys all felt that she should have a coronation and go unchallenged. But the American voter wanted something else... and it is good we found out now, instead of the GE when Hillary would've been CREAMED - even by a horrible candidate like McCain.


Keep knocking the "kids" that Obama has brought into this campaign with a level of enthusiasm this country hasn't seen in half a century. Those "kids" are the Democratic party that will save your Social Security, grandpa.


Finally... I find it hard to imagine any Obama supporters being as "dickheaded" as you were in the OP. Look in the mirror.


Rant over.

[Sybbis]

115. Hmm...

I'd take Hart off the list, unless you'd like to re-visit his self-destruct-athon with Donna Rice. Yes, some of us are old enough to remember what actually happened. (Still, Gary Hart had great position papers, some of the best I've ever seen. His implosion was a disappointment.)

Anyway, again, for the zillionth time to you Obama supporters, if you have all the experienced Democratic campaign workers you need to win a general election, best of luck to you.

[Mme. Defarge]

117. Took the words

right outa mon bouche!

Where was this legion of experienced Democrats when elections were being stolen from Gore and Kerry?

[Sybbis]

141. There was nothing we could do about Jeb and Deibold

Sorry about that. We were working our asses off all over the country. What were you doing during those elections?

[boppers]

128. "I've been on the internet since it was only available in DOS"

Yeahbutno.

Fusing DARPANET, USENET, BITNET and NSFNET was done over the years with VMS and *nix machines, OS/360 and GECOS/POSIX machines... DOS was a much later invention, and the internet was never "only available in DOS".

[scheming daemons]

138. LOL..... snap!

[Sybbis]

139. Yeah but yeah, and you know exactly what I meant.

[Kittycat]

9. You mean the experienced clinton supporters that have been helping with her fabulous grass roots..

campaign? :crazy:

Listen, it's like this... HRC is dividing this party, and doing so badly. She's the loon on tv screaching her head off, for something doing 1/100th of what she's been doing all along. I never ONCE considered her "my candidate of choice" because honestly - I have NEVER liked Clintonian politics, or DLC scum. Nor do I pretend to overlook the fact that she's never apologized for IWR, her excuses hit a 100 on my bull-shit-o-meter. And the one time - ONE TIME, I felt a sense of sincerity from her was last Thursday - until I found out it was just a rehash of Edwards & Clinton I's words. She's so full of shit, she doesn't even know the truth from spin anymore. And personally, I can't wait to watch her sink in the cesspool she's creating for herself.

[Carolina]

50. Dear Kitty, I couldn't

AGREE more!:hi:

[Auntie Bush]

72. Stop playing in the kitty litter.

[bigtree]

10. Over 10 million strong now

but, I think most will rally, out of good sense and necessity.

[jmg257]

11. "after what he and his supporters have done.." Sorry Hillary is losing, but change means just that

While she is busy prepping for 2012, he will be making a difference in DC.

[BuyingThyme]

12. He has an extremely strong campaign organization.

And it's currently kicking the shit out of the Clinton campaign organization.

[Adelante]

28. Here is an article for anyone who wants to read about it

http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=the_year_of_the_organizer

[bluestateguy]

13. The same could be said for the Obama supporters, re: Hillary

I will vote for her if she is (somehow) nominated come hell or high water, but the money I have set aside to donate to the nominee? Well, I'm having second thoughts. I may instead send it to Al Franken or Tom Allen.

[Sybbis]

101. This is exactly my point...

When it comes to the general, attitudes like that could sink the Democratic nominee. At this point, although I do not support him, it looks like Obama may well win the nomination.

There are millions of Hillary Clinton voters whose attitude towards Obama is the same as yours towards Clinton. I think it's a serious problem for Obama, as it would be a serious problem for Clinton should she win the nomination.

Any way you slice it, it's a huge problem for Democrats. One that will be, I believe, unresponsive to browbeating by the nominees supporters.

[democrattotheend]

207. We go through this every primary season

In 2004, a lot of us Deaniacs were bitter and we didn't want to volunteer for Kerry, but most of us came around. I know I did, although I was never involved with Kerry's campaign to the extent I had been with Dean's.

Every primary season leaves some people unhappy and some activists less enthused about volunteering for a candidate who wasn't their first choice.

Granted, it might be a little bit of a bigger problem this year because the primaries have gone on longer and gotten a little nastier, but I still think enough Clinton supporters will come around, just as enough of us will come around if Clinton is the nominee.

Given how successful Obama's ground game has been so far, I'm not that worried about his ability to attract capable volunteers, both seasoned and new. Obama's "college kids" have helped get him this far, outmaneuvering Clinton with all of her institutional advantages in large part because of a better ground game.

[earthlover]

14. "clinton democrats" who don't vote democratic..oxymoron....or.. just plain moron

[Sybbis]

143. I'm not talking about voting, I'm talking about WORKING for the campaign

[muntrv]

15. What has he done to the Democratic Party? Brought in more money?

[Ichingcarpenter]

16. "what are you going to do? " Easy answer

Not hire Mark Penn

[John Q. Citizen]

17. We will kick DINOs who would allow McCain in office out of the party and

finally clean up the mess the DLC has created.

It takes Obama to clean up after the Clinton machine!

I volunteered for the McGovern campaign while I was in High School, so I'm a bit older than you.

Any so-called Democrat who won't help defeat McCain is scum in my book.

Good riddence. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[Sybbis]

156. If Hillary doesn't get the nomination..

I wish that there was a way that I could actively work against McCain and not have to deal with these totally fucking obnoxious Obama supporters.

And therein lies the dilemma for so many Democrats these days and, really, the crux of my OP. In a breathtaking example of hubris, you imagine that you can put a Democrat into the White House without the rest of the Democrats on board. I'm so sorry, but you couldn't possibly be more wrong. I'm surprised that an old political hand like yourself hasn't realized that yet.

[John Q. Citizen]

211. You are a tiny minority who doesn't represent either the Clinton or the Obama voters in this

race.

Read the exit polls. The overwhelming majority of both Clinton and Obama supporters like the other candidate just fine. And they like the other candidate's supporters just fine.

Your problem isn't hubris, it's that you are incredibly out of touch with the voters.

You think you are representative of other Clinton voters. You aren't.

Your solution is to appoint the candidate who is currently trailing by almost a million votes nationwide, because if that doesn't happen you are stomping your feet and throwing a conniption fit. Most people will not join you.

Watch and see.

[City Lights]

18. That knife cuts both ways.

Just sayin'...

[Yael]

19. I am sure that if you have been paying attention, you know that it isn't the party big wigs

and endorsements that are getting people out to the polls -- it is the Howard Dean 50-state strategy that is churning out well trained volunteers and activists with boots on the ground in record numbers.

South Carolina alone had 15,000 people out canvassing for the campaign.

These folks will be ready, willing and able to do it again in November while the "my candidate didn't win" people sit home and pout.

[ErnestoG]

20. Most Hillary supporters would vote for Obama the nominee

A few of them wouldn't (as we have seen here on this ...Democratic..forum) but most would.

[Sybbis]

149. Sure, they'll vote for him but they don't want to WORK for him...

And, more particularly, they don't want to work with the fanatical and unpleasant Obama supporters. That's an issue that none of you Obama guys are willing or able to address.

Most of you seem to think that it doesn't matter but it actually matters a great deal. It matters to Barack Obama. That man is trying to figure out a way to fix all this damage asap, that's for damn sure.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

21. Hate to break it to you, but this isn't the first disco for a lot of us Obama supporters

There are a lot of us, long time activists who went for Obama because we liked what we saw and weren't too enthused about signing on to Hillary Clinton's coronation. We didn't appreciate the attitude of entitlement and the ASSumption by the Beltway Bubble-heads that we yokels in the flyover states would just fall in line behind a warmongering triangulator.

While you dis the young people who are excited about Obama, you forget that the new generation of Dem activists has to come from somewhere. Who do you think does the canvassing in July heat, puts up the signs, and drops lit at 2am? Who registers most of the new voters?

Finally, if Obama's camp is such a bunch of inexperienced fumblers, what does that say about your candidate, considering she's had her ass handed to her the past 10 primaries?

[ErnestoG]

26. Bingo. Thank you.

This cowboy has been in a few rodeos himself, and is getting awfully tired of being relegated to wild eyed noobie by the worst of the Hillars.

[jmg257]

35. That's bull! (it's over the last 11 primaries - and 31 out of 38?) ;) nt

[Yael]

42. Damn!

:applause:

[Adelante]

53. Really

I've only been a Democrat for forty years and probably worked on as many campaigns as anybody at DU.

Oh, my, oh, my, whatever shall we do without "Clinton Democrats" to train us? :scared:

[Sybbis]

171. I don't care why you support Obama and don't support Hillary...

And I'm sure you don't care why I support Hillary and don't support Obama. We've made our minds up. It's completely irrelevant. This is about the general election.

I used to be one those inexperienced young people you're talking about. It's how we all learn and it's still useful to know. However, I have no illusions about the reliability and productivity of young, inexperienced campaign workers. Do YOU? If so, you haven't worked on many campaigns. (Yes, we all have anecdotes about stupendously hard working young people. Let's also stipulate that most of us were exemplary in this respect ourselves. I'm talking about everyone else.)

You seem to be taking this as a personal insult. I never said that Obama primary workers were fumblers. You misrepresented what I said to get there. What I said was that come the general election, what are you going to do about all the Democratic old hands that you've alienated so completely?

For the most part the response has been, "We don't care about the people we've trashed. We don't want your kind of Democrat working on our shiny new campaign anyway." I find that attitude briefly amusing and ultimately tragic for Barack Obama.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

203. I don't know what to tell you since most of the "old hands" where I am are working for Obama

Of course, if you read my post, you would have concluded that. Hillary Clinton and her presumptuous supporters, with the attitude of entitlement dripping off them, already alienated us. You must live in some Clinton stronghold like Arkansas, because your experience certainly doesn't mirror that of most of the people who responded it this thread. Reading your own thread might provide you with a clue as to what's really happening in the country.

[RBInMaine]

22. PLENTY of us "old time Dems" are working for him.

Please stop the sily stereotypes. First, far from all of the Obama workers are "college kids."
Please give it up. It's insulting and downright WRONG. It also makes you look blunt-minded. (I'm 40 with plenty of blue collar blood in me by the way.) Next, I agree we will need all hands on deck for November, but if you are going to jump ship because your candidate loses, that's just being a sore loser/. I really wanted Edwards, but it didn't happen. So now I'm with Obama. If Hillary were to win, at this point I'd be holding my nose a bit, but I'd still work for her rather than risk
McCain. So let's stop this and at least wait until the primaries are over. Finally, you should be thrilled that so many young voters are getting involved. That's the party's future.

[Labors of Hercules]

25. Let me just be as plain as I can...

If Obama wins the Democratic Nomination and you, being an "experienced" (albeit egotistical) veteran DEMOCRATIC campaigner, refuse to campaign for him?... You are only proving one thing:

You are a two-faced narcissistic crybaby.

[Capn Sunshine]

27. I have trouble with the veracity of this post

suddenly, concern trolls abound, threatening god knows what for god knows why "if Obama gets the nomination"

News Flash: It's a fait accompli, and your chance to voice this passed some time in late January.

If you're actually what you say you are, which is also questionable.
Welcome to DU if you are.

[madfloridian]

70. You need to quit using such big words. You will confuse and upset the OP

:hi:

[mrbluto]

114. Another post without substance?

Are they all like this?

Save me some time - are all your posts like this? All 1000+?

[madfloridian]

119. Now that is funny.

Thanks for the smile.

[mrbluto]

135. You know, you're not helping the cause much.

Not with your attitude.

If you look around at my posts, even within this thread, it's clear I'm willing to be persuaded, but you're not doing it.

You make no sort of case for your position, can't answer direct questions - basically have an attitude that makes me think "Why bother?"

Is that what your were hoping for?

[mrbluto]

144. Please see post 135

It applies to you.

[stahbrett]

29. I just hope that the people who appear to know how to win elections are in charge (eom)

[skipos]

30. I have the SOLUTION!!!!!

All we need to do is get Mark Penn and all the other Clinton advisors and consultants to work for McCain. That'll get Obama a 300+ electoral victory for sure!

[yourguide]

31. Considering how he and Axelrod

Are running circles around HRCs seasoned team of veterans with whatever team they have cobbled together...I think the self proclaimed "experts" working the HRC crew might be past their expiration date when it comes to how politics are working now.

Axelrod and co are beating career politicians right this second, politicians who SHOULD know how to run a campaign.

[wellstone dem]

32. Reminder. It is about the Supreme Court

not bruised egos.

We cannot have 2 more justices appointed by the GOP!

[elizm]

33. Okey Dokey. nt

[IndyOp]

34. Welcome to DU Sybbis! There will be lots of long-time Dems who sit out

the general when Obama becomes our nominee, but there will be lots who campaign their hearts out -- just as they have in the past after their primary preference did not become the nominee.

:hi:

[Cha]

36. Oh BooHoo and Shyte..hilary's the

shit canner and you know it.. she can go and take her big top down dinos with her.

[babylonsister]

37. Just -ugh. He's doing fine; if they're Dems they'll be more interested in

their party succeeding than anything else. If they're not interested, they're not very committed to begin with. Bye now.

[Jamastiene]

38. My primary vote will not be allowed to be counted.

North Carolina doesn't have our Democratic Primary until May. From the sound of the Obama supporters, they don't care if my vote gets counted or not.

[union_maid]

67. That's hardly unique to this year

I'm in NY. This is the first year we voted on Super Tuesday. In 2004 my first choice was off the ballot by the time I voted. Before Bush, I didn't even really bother with the primaries because we voted late. I just voted in 2004 as a sort of solidarity thing. If NC decides to join other states in voting early in the future, then your vote is more likely to count. Actually, though, I'd go back to voting late gladly if they stopped making these things earlier and earlier.

[SoxFan]

39. damn kids

[NJSecularist]

40. Thanks for giving the election to the rethugs

Why don't you go campaign for them since you love them more than Obama?

[OhioBlue]

43. "What he and his supporters have done to the Democratic

Party in this election cycle"

1. Excited people about politics
2. Recruited many new volunteers and donors
3. Offered a choice to Democrats that didn't "fall in line" with the chosen one
4. Frames a message and presents Democratic Values to voters better than any other Democratic candidate

yeah... I could go on, but I think I've made my point.

[creeksneakers2]

44. I don't believe a significant portion of Hillary supporters won't

support Obama. As a Hillary supporter on DU, I've been glad to see that very few Hillary supporters threatened to jump ship. We are all in it together.

There are no volunteer jobs that only one person can do. A new generation will add energy and make for a much better future party. If some of the older people aren't energized the young are making up for it, at least so far.

I've been angry with Obama a couple of times but I didn't see any candidate this primary season who didn't throw some low blows.

My strongest motivation for supporting Hillary was the unfair attacks she received. Obama will start receiving them too now. I hope once all starts you'll come back.

[MadBadger]

"Sadly, after what he and his supporters have done to the democratic party this election cycle."

Oh please explain.

[apocalypsehow]

48. He kept winning primaries and caucuses in states that "don't count."

n/t.

[apocalypsehow]

45. I guess we'll just have to muddle through the best we can.

:eyes:

[madfloridian]

46. In 2004 we went straight from Dean to GOTV for Kerry.

We donated, bought yard signs, replaced them, stumped for him here.

Times are changing now.

I went through being made fun of as a Deaniac, but I am still one and still proud of it.

This is a pathetic kind of post. To me person above who asked my age, I could probably be your grandmother.

What a childish post, and so very divisive

[Lone_Star_Dem]

49. Do what you think is best.

I'll be working for either one that wins. Usually all I get to really do is phonebank and sometimes head to a neighbor state to help if I can afford to that year. I'll be doing it for either one of them that takes the nomination.

I like my nose and don't have any desire to cut it off just because I'm angry at my face.

I don't believe you know "quite a few experienced, serious, veteran Democratic campaigners all across the country" who are also planning on have a childish fit of taking their ball and going home. Really. I don't believe that. Either that our you and I have a very different opinion as to what a serious, veteran Democratic campaigner actually is. None of the true blue, work for the better good of the people Democrats I know have even hinted at such a thing. But then somehow they've also been managing to support opposing candidates in this primary without resorting to calling each other childish names.

[Sybbis]

174. You're entitled to your opinion...

But it is what it is. I started off, like you, supporting whomever took the nomination and vilifying anyone who wasn't like-minded. We all started off that way, as usual. Unfortunately, our experiences with Obama supporters have been terrible. I don't mean the bitchfighting here on DU, I mean out in the real world.

Everyone has primary candidates who don't make it, that's more common than not. My old political cronies and I have faced the fact that we aren't excited about the likely candidate. That, in itself, is not necessarily a barrier - we're veterans of the Mondale and Dukakis campaigns, among others. The thing is, we never had any problem with Mondale and Dukakis supporters. We were all Democrats and it just wasn't an issue. Certainly there was nothing like what we've experienced with Obama supporters. It's not a change for the better, I assure you.

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised but I am still pretty revolted. As it is, the Party is pitting older Democrats against younger Democrats, blacks against whites and latinos, women against men, it's a clusterfuck functioning as a circular firing squad.

I don't see any good coming of this, I really don't.

[Muzza]

51. I hear ya!

Excellent analysis. I for one will not be supporting Barack Obama if he is the nominee. I am a hardcore democrat and would never have predicted I would abandon the party due to dissatisfaction with a leader. In this case, I must. If BO is the nominee, count me out until he is replaced! There are too many reasons to list for my decision. I do not believe BO represents the ideals of the democratic party and I do not believe he has any real interest in improving the lives of everyday people. The arrogance in which he has conducted his campaign has repelled me in the strongest of ways. His complete and utter dismissal of everything achieved in American politics before his arrival is unbelievable. His sexist behavior towards Clinton has disgusted me. And now onto the supporters...

It is perhaps the Obamamaniacs themselves that have most strongly fueled the development of my anti-Obama position. Their behaviour has been repulsive to a level that I cannot even comprehend. The hatred and anti-Hillary fervor has been disturbing. All corners of the internet from youtube, myspace, facebook to all news blog sites have been INFECTED with pro-obama, anti-hillary propaganda and lies. This character assasination of Hillary Clinton by Obamamaniacs has led me to consequently despise the leader they pledge allegiance to. I once liked Obama - momentarily. But then I woke up and saw what was really going on - that was the start. And then when the Obamamaniacs began to rise up and spread their hate and venom far and wide, my dislike and repulsion was solidified. I began to make the connection between Obama's leadersip style, his dangerous messages and the effect of these on the behavior of his supporters. At that point, there was no turning back. A true unifier does not have the effect of inspiring hatred, hostility and violence in his/her followers.

A vote for Obama is a vote for 4 more years of GOP rule because respectable and principled democratic followers have ZERO desire to be aligned with the troubling "movement" this man is leading.

[apocalypsehow]

55. "A vote for Obama is a vote for 4 more years of GOP rule" - "I am a hardcore democrat"

Uh-huh. :eyes:

[Forkboy]

56. This is the third time today and anti-Obama poster has used the terms "Real Democrats"..

.."True Democrats", and now the ones that agree with you are the "respectable and principled democratic followers."

Do you guys take lessons in arrogance?

Is this like the "Real Americans" the Repubs like to talk about by any chance?

[Adelante]

57. Welcome to DU, Muzza

And fuck you :hi:

[Lone_Star_Dem]

.

:spray:

I take that to mean you're not buying all the "concern" either.

[Muzza]

102. So kind of you

And exactly what I would expect...

[tabasco]

84. Sign up for your fuhrer's war right here, sparky:

www.goarmy.com

Stop fighting the "culture war" on the internet and get your ass in a real one.

[anonymous171]

122. You're that person

who likes the band until it becomes popular.

[Adams Wulff]

163. Despite your pretentious attitude...

...you are still an ass.

[dionysus]

52. trolliolioooooo....

[Zhade]

58. If Clinton supporters want to endanger the Dem's chances for the White House, that's on them.

NT!

[BattyDem]

59. So you don't care if Dems lose the down-ticket races?

You may not like the nominee, but keep this in mind: if the nominee loses, Dems in the down-ticket races probably won't do very well.

You're either a democrat or you're not. Being a democrat doesn't mean you'll only support one person as the nominee, it means you'll support the nominee. It's certainly your right not to do so ... but don't assume that all democrats are as short-sighted as you are. And don't assume that all so-called "Obamaniacs" are college kids. While it's true that Obama has brought many young, enthusiastic people to the process, they aren't the only ones who support him ... and in case you haven't noticed, his campaign supporters have done an AWESOME job!

[monomach]

62. His current volunteers seem to be doing just fine. n/t.

[Moderate Dem]

63. I must admit that I originally supported Hillary

because I agreed with her on Iraq, and I saw her as somewhat LESS liberal than Obama. But what Bill said (although I admire him greatly) after South Carolina, went a long way towards getting me to support Obama. The Clinton campaign just sounds...old politics, that's the best way I can put it.

[Diamonique]

65. This has to be the most arrogant, selfish, childish post I've seen here in the past few weeks.

"If we don't get our way, we're gonna take my ball and go home!"

Puhleeze!

[mrbluto]

109. Maybe we'll just have to think about it.

Just like Michelle.

Sound reasonable?

[Orangepeel]

68. I hope you'll get past it. But if not, I guess we'll have to make do.

Fortunately, most experienced democratic campaigners will put their own hurt feelings aside and work for the nominee and the good of the country like they always have. Besides, it's not like Obama doesn't have a lot of establishment support. I know lots of experienced campaigners who support Obama. They'll just have to organize and manage all those young workers just like they are now. It seems to be working.

[Exultant Democracy]

69. Generally most staffers are pretty damn young, the people who do the real heavy lifting

volunteers do however tend to be retired.

[democrattotheend]

74. I think it would be more of a problem if it went the other way

I think a lot more volunteers would sit it out if Obama goes into the convention with more delegates and Clinton got the nomination by strongarming superdelegates.

I'm sorry you have decided to sit it out, and hope that you will instead put your energy into down-ballot races. But given the groundswell of volunteers Obama has attracted in the primaries, I'm not too worried about it.

[Sybbis]

175. I agree, I see it as a problem for either campaign...

Seasoned, experienced Democrats who are working for Obama would be a huge loss for the Clinton campaign in a general election. I've been thinking about that for months. Now that it's flipped and Obama is the more likely nominee, I find that it's a non-issue or simply an issue treated with contempt by Obama supporters.

We were less cavalier about it, I can tell you that. People in this thread keep telling me how old they are, as Obama supporters, but I'm not sure I believe it. I know they exist, my neighbors are at least ten years older than I am and they are huge Obama supporters. We've discussed it several times and never had a cross word between us. I find that the unnecessary vitriol comes from the younger, less experinced supporters. At least in real life - god only knows who people are on the internet.

I'll probably roust my district against our Republican Congressman. He's a leftover from Tom DeLay's belly-button lint and basically an asshole. Sadly, many of the people in my district are also total assholes and the bastard does support the environment. This will be a primarily Quixotic quest. However, it will keep me busy and blessedly local, unlike working a general election, so there we are.

[HooptieWagon]

76. Obama's ground crew and fundraising

are setting the standard for either party this election cycle, while Clinton's has been rather poor. I can't imagine they'll be missed. If Clinton should manage to wrangle the nomination, by either hook or crook, she'll be in far greater need of Obama's team, and given the feces she's been flinging I wouldn't blame them a bit if their enthusiasm is lukewarm.

[Freida5]

77. I agree. I am completely offended by the tactics of the Obama campaign.

They may win the primary, but they won't have my help in the fall

[Muzza]

105. I hear ya!

The hatred emanating from the Obama campaign for anyone that does not support "the movement" is indeed very disturbing.

[Robeson]

81. Sadly, I hate your attitude. I'll work my f*cking ass off for whomever...

...our nominee may be. I'll be damned if I'm going to help McBush win the White House.

[scheming daemons]

85. What *HE* has done to the Democratic party.... riiiiggggghhhhtt.....

Hillary's slash-and-burn, scortched-earth campaign has NOT hurt the Democratic party... but Obama's increase-the-democratic-voter-rolls, campaign-on-a-positive-message campaign has HURT the Democratic party.


Yeah.... I get it now.


What he "has done" to the Democratic party is breathe incredible new life into it... but from YOUR perspective, he "dethroned a rightful queen", so he has been damaging.


Just WHAT .... seriously.... has he done to the Democratic party?



You don't deserve to be in a party of ideas. You've lost your soul. If it is true you worked for every Democratic campaign for 32 years, then you have become a sad shell of what you USED to stand for.

[More Than A Feeling]

87. Well, I'm no Obamamaniac, but I seem to recall

Clinton supporters running around asking people to sign loyalty oaths when it looked like Hillary would run away with it. More than a few of them were just as arrogant then as you say Obama supporters are now. Remembering how some of Clinton's supporters were acting, I find it hard to have sympathy for you now. I think both groups of supporters deserve each other.

[proud2BlibKansan]

88. I don't believe that will be a problem

He has already built a great campaign team and they are very well organized. And here in my area, they were on the ground running a year before Hillary's team was. Honestly, I worry more about Hillary's team and their ability to win this election than Obama's.

[workinclasszero]

92. How the hell can this place be called Democratic Underground

When you have post after post of Hillary supporters pledging to not vote for or help in any way the nominee of the Democrat party??

Shit freepers must be cheering you people on! I see post after post filled with right wing talking points against Obama.:puke:

Turn on Limpballs and Handjob and you hear the same exact thing!

If you people insist on throwing a hissy fit and holding your breath till you turn blue so McCain gets elected, you will all have the blood of untold thousands on your hands!

[Sybbis]

177. It has nothing to do with voting, it's about WORKING for the campaign.

[Recursion]

95. Yup, the old guard has to get cycled out every generation or so

Thanks for your work, and don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.

[Sybbis]

178. You're welcome.

It's a pity that you don't genuinely appreciate all we've done for the Democratic Party. Best of luck in the general.

[gravity]

98. Because Obama supporters are delusional and don't know what they are doing

:sarcasm:

It looks like some people are in denial about this Obama phenomenom. The reality is that Obama has been running a very organized campaign, which has been very successful without the Clinton Democrats. The results speak for themselves.

[Sybbis]

181. In a PRIMARY, yeah. Jesus.

[gravity]

204. If he can get that kind of organization in just a PRIMARY

think about how well he will do in the general election.

If the Clinton Democrats want to prove that their experience counts, they need the results to back them up. Apparantly, Obama is doing just fine with this new gerneration of democratic workers, so your argument has no weight.

[Egnever]

99. Well considering his campaign is running circles around you old timers

I suspect he will do just fine.

[Recursion]

104. Honestly? You guys haven't done much good for Senator Clinton

And if the implosion of her campaign is a sign of the kind of "support" you can offer; maybe I'd rather have you on the other side.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

103. You don't sound like a Democratic Party member!

all die hard Democrats will vote for the nominee regardless of who it is.

[Sybbis]

182. It's not about voting, it's about WORKING for the campaign.

[Johnny__Motown]

107. In case you didn't notice, Obama has a pretty good operation, and hired Kerry's GE campaign guy

[ErnestoG]

108. And how many insult fests launched at Obama supporters will garner their support?

Any guesses?

[WolverineDG]

110. say hello to my ignore list

I don't have time for this emotional blackmail crap anymore.

dg

[stillcool]

118. I feel your pain...

Barrack Obama has the best organization of any campaign I have ever seen. I'm sorry, but I don't think the campaign will miss you.

[muntrv]

120. Experience doesn't automatically translate to success. This post is saying

if I don't get my way, I'll take my ball and go home.

[enid602]

124. democrat for a day

With the Obama campaign having urged Hillary-haters to become 'democrats for a day,' I fear that many Hillary supporters will become non-democrats on election day.

[candice]

125. Non-Obama-mite here: I won't be working or donating a "dime,"

which is the amount that Obama claims he has not accepted from lobbyists (and a blatant lie). He accepts money from lobbyist surrogates and has ten federally registered lobbyist bundlers to Clinton's 20. I started being involved with Democratic campaigns before I was 4 (politics is my mother's passion).

...this will be the first Democratic candidate of my lifetime (and my mother says of hers) for whom we have no respect. My brother refuses to vote for O (not qualified).

I'll vote as long as there is no scandal, but accepting $1000 for your latest campaign from Tony Rezko when poor blacks in your district who live in his apartments have no heat for more than a month during a Chicago winter either shows that you don't know what is going on in your own district (and don't pay attention to the news) or have no heart.

[Hippo_Tron]

129. Specifically what has Obama done to the Democratic Party this election cycle?

[nolabels]

130. chirp, chirp,chirp (crickets)

Get some sleep, they won't be answering that question with any honest answers tonight at any rate, it's all just vapid reactionary talking points :boring:

[Hippo_Tron]

131. It was pretty much a rhetorical question anyway

Some Clinton supporters (although frankly I don't think they are a majority, which is a good thing) believe that Obama hasn't earned the presidency because he hasn't paid his dues like Hillary has.

Furthermore they believe because she has support from labor, women, and senior citizens that she has the support of all of the REAL Democrats. Whereas young people and anti-war progressives are not real Democrats. African Americans are real Democrats but they are only supporting Obama because he's black.

This shit gets played out in most elections. McCarthy vs Humphrey in '68, McGovern vs Muskie in '72, Carter vs Scoop Jackson in '76, Mondale vs Hart in '84, Dean vs Kerry and Gephardt in '04.

[casus belli]

136. So your question is "I'm screwing you, what do you think of that"?

Well, I guess my answer would be, I'm sorry you feel that way. Do what you've got to do. I wouldn't be doing the same if Hillary won the nod, I'd be voting for her even though she wasn't my first choice. But, if you'd rather be right and have another four years of a Republican in the WH, then that's something you'll have to own when the time comes. I have been, on more than one occasion, insulted for not supporting Hillary. My ignore list is currently full of Hillary supporters I will most likely un-ignore when the primaries have played out - I realize its the heat of an extraordinary primary. Making history isn't always a pretty process. Despite the disrespect, I understand that having a Democrat in the whitehouse, even if it wasn't my first choice in candidate, is always going to be preferable to another Republican admin. If you are (and I'll take your word for it) an experienced campaign volunteer and organizer as you state, I would expect you to realize that without someone telling it to you.

In any case, best of luck to you...

[Sybbis]

165. No, that isn't what I'm saying at all.

It has nothing to do with voting, I'm talking about working on the campaign. Normally, I would work on the Democratic nominee's campaign. I always do, as do lots of others and we've been doing it together for years. We've all had losing candidates in primaries before, that's not the problem.

It's different this year for a lot of us, more bitter and less likely to lead to unity. But apparently I'm not supposed to talk about it here on the Obama Underground.

As always, best of luck.

[casus belli]

173. I welcome open discussion..

If it's the way you feel, let's hash it out. I apologize for misinterpreting your post. I thought what you were saying is that you wouldn't support him at all if he got the nod. I've seen alot of posts like that here. It isn't really my place to apologize to you if you feel you've been disrespected by other Obama supporters. But I will say I am truly sorry that some people choose to take that path to show their support. I have seen some very stupid posts from people who support Obama, that accuse Hillary supporters of all manner of things - alot of which are totally off base. However, I will state that this animosity hasn't been one sided. You obviously aren't going to be on the receiving end of Hillary supporter ire, being someone who supports her. But if you are willing to take me at my word, I can assure you the frequency is a 50/50 proposition.

This really is a primary like I've never seen. If you want to look at the bright side, if we can come through this as a party, it just speaks to the success of progressive politics and shows that a big-tent philosophy CAN succeed even when there are deep divisions within the party about the way forward.

Things will inevitably cool down, and after we've had some time to clean our wounds, we'll be a unified party behind our candidate. Some won't play along. Some folks are just saying that out of anger, others may actually live up to their promises and sit out in protest. It's all well and good. Once we are back to a choice between and R or a D, things will be brought back into perspective. I hope my fellow supporters haven't ruined it for you by then, but try to brush it off and see it for what it is.

Being a big tent isn't easy, but it's the right thing to do.

Best regards....

[goldcanyonaz]

140. The anybody but Clinton topics go over much better around here.

The ABO's not so much.

I was told that my vote wont matter in the GE because I live in Arizona.

[cliffordu]

145. See ya later....... n/t

[Obamaman2008]

148. Honestly, Obama is better off without the Clinton Political Machine that appears to be broken

I think that sour pussies and a broken campaign machine would be more of a problem than help for Obama.

I Hope the Clintons stay out the general election, go hide away somewhere in a deep bunker and let Obama handle the election, rally, fundraising, and other political issues. They were the top in the 90s, but these Clintons are really using old style outdated methods that people see through now.

[crispini]

151. All the Clinton supporters in my area that I know personally (and I know many)

are true blue yellow dog dems that will work for the nominee in November. :patriot:

As will I. :patriot:

[mattclearing]

157. Don't let the door hit you on your way out.

You won't be missed.

[krkaufman]

161. Well, I'll guess we'll make due with people who are willing to work for change. n/t

[cali]

164. the world does not revolve around YOU

Most Clinton supporters will support Obama and work for him. And like you, I've worked on every Presidential campaign since Carter. And had Clinton won, I'd likely get out there and work for her.

[Political Heretic]

167. You seriously overestimate the continuing impact of "clinton democrats"

This primary season was a referendum and the verdict is in -- the clinton dynasty is the past. The future is now.

[polichick]

169. No reason for concern...

There are plenty of seasoned activists ready to train the millions of newbies that are showing up all over the country ~ if there weren't, his ground game wouldn't be where it is and he wouldn't be sweeping the primaries.

[Alexander]

172. Most Clinton supporters are reasonable and will work and vote for Obama.

The ones who say "I'll stay at home or vote third party. I HATE OBAMA!!!!!11!!" are a tiny vocal minority of trolls who probably aren't even old enough to vote.

[Sybbis]

179. Most people will vote for him, if it comes to that...

But volunteering energy, expertise and a good portion of time is another matter entirely. My understanding is that many Obama supporters feel exactly the same way about working for a Clinton campaign in the general election. They'll vote for her but they don't have any interest in working for her.

It's a problem for Democrats either way. I don't see a big Kumbaya moment on the horizon. The candidates will manufacture one but it won't move the supporters of either campaign.

[AtomicKitten]

176. Smoochy kisses.

[Perry Logan]

184. Did the Obama people really think sleaze would win our hearts?

[Perky]

188. Oh give us a break Perry....all you do is post vile anti-Obama post

Yo do not think that cuts both ways?

[Perry Logan]

190. Actually, they're "anti-Obama-supporters" posts, no more vile than their targets.

If you check, you'll see I virtually never attack Obama. Lots of wisecracks and leg-pulling, mind you.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Perry%20Logan

[TheDonkey]

186. Give it a rest. No one is buying this crap. If you want to sit aside and let McCain

in and not fight then you deserve to walking silently into the shadows. Good riddance to you and your veteran democratic friends.

[Perky]

187. What has he done that is so wrong?

and please be specific. SInce you intend to sit on the sidelines as a result.

[Armstead]

195. He successfully challenged Clinton for the nomination

[mmonk]

189. Back at you.

And all DLC candidates for that matter.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

192. You know what?

Back during the last quarter of 2007, when this message board was full of people screaming that they wouldn't vote / would vote green / etc if Hillary won the nomination, I told those people they were idiots:

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/yibbehobba/5

At the time I was a Richardson supporter, but have since moved to Obama, though I'd hardly consider myself an "Obamaniac" or anything of the sort. I never thought I'd live to see the day when Hillary supporters, of all people, started throwing out the same tired crap about Obama that hardcore anybody-but-Hillary people had been spewing about her.

It is my contention that somewhere between 50% to 75% of the I-won't-support-X threads are bullshit propogated by supporters of Y in order to scare people into voting for Y. I seriously don't understand this attitude at all. For the first time in ages - ages - we have two really GOOD candidates, either of whom will make a formidable candidate in the general. People on this forum love to go around shouting, "THIS IS WHAT DEMOCRACY LOOKS LIKE!" Well, this is what Democracy looks like, warts and all. It's not a personal affront to you. It's just politics.

[Vinca]

193. It works both ways. At this point it is highly unlikely I could

support Hillary. I never thought I'd see the day when a Democrat smears another Democrat in the fashion Hillary is doing it. To release a photo of Obama in native garb to try to make people think he's a freaking terrorist. Unfuckingbelievable.

[Arugula Latte]

194. I can see why Democrats would be upset that Obama has brought out countless voters and enthusiasm

for the Democratic party, not to mention unprecedented donations. Yes, what a horrible, horrible thing to get people from all walks of life engaged and active and ready to vote for a Democrat. :eyes:

Face it -- the Old School triangulated and sold the party's soul to the DLC. The 50 State Strategy is kicking butt and the old Clintonian crowd can't handle that.

[RichardRay]

196. Please take a deep breath...

...and don't make threats you may not want to carry through upon a few months from now. I started carrying a sign for Adlai Stevenson, and there have been several Democrats since then I've not loved. Never, though, has it seemed worthwhile to give support, even by default, to the Right. If your anger with Barack Obama is truly such that you don't feel you'll be able to work for the Demcratic candidate in this cycle think about what that would have meant to you in previous cycles, or might mean in the future. Is it really where you want to go?

[JeanGrey]

197. Oh please get a ife. You sound almost as desperate as HIllary.

What he has "done" to the party? Let me assure you that Obama will have no trouble. LOL

[totodeinhere]

199. The Obama organization, experienced or not, has done well so far.

But at the same time the Clinton campaign has been viewed as one of the most incompetent in recent memory. They took what most observers believed was her inevitable nomination and blew it.

So what makes you think that the fall campaign would be any different? Why wouldn't the Obama campaign be just as efficient in the fall campaign as they have been so far?

[NC_Nurse]

200. I think you are mistaking the atmosphere on DU with RL.

Most of the Dems I talk to locally are not pissed off at either candidate. They are excited to have two good candidates and
eager to participate in helping the Dem nominee. I'm sure some die-hard Hillary supporters won't be involved, but I doubt
that they are a huge contingent. If Obama loses somehow, I will get over it and work for Hillary. I don't want to see Pres. McLame.

Our country is F*cked at the moment, so whoever inherits it is going to have a big job and get blamed for a lot of problems that they didn't create.
If Hillary doesn't win, she may end up relieved. Same for Barack. We're still all Dems, you know.

[Seabiscuit]

201. I'd vote for him in November, but he's going to have to win it without any other help from me.

I've been working campaigns since 1968 (Eugene McCarthy first, then RFK). If Obama gets the nomination, I'll sit this one out.

[BigAnth]

202. For all of you who choose to "sit this one out"...

there will be at least twice as many new volunteers to take your place. And they'll probably be younger and more energetic.

[Az_lefty]

205. It's the Clinton's who have divided everyone...

their mentality is if they can't be king & queen they will break all the toys. As for Hillary's supporters, if they want to act childish and let that loony tunes McCain into the White House, they will have no one to blame but themselves.

[democrattotheend]

206. Most of the "activist types" have supported Obama

Clinton herself said that she has done poorly in caucuses because they tend to attract activist types. Obama's stellar performance in caucuses among "activist-types", as well as the groundswell of volunteers he's attracted already are encouraging. I don't mean to sound flip or disregard the issue, but I think there are bound to be people who are unsatisfied with the nominee after every primary season. Some come around, some don't. It happens every time.

We went through this in 2004 and we'd go through it this year no matter who got the nomination. It took me a while to be willing to volunteer for Kerry, but in the end I did, because I knew how terrible I would feel if Bush won and I had sat back and done nothing.

I hope you will come around as I did, but if not, there are plenty of down-ballot candidates who could use your help.

BTW, as a recent college grad, I find your attitude toward college students a little insulting. On every campaign I have volunteered for, college students and young people have made up a large share of the volunteers. And for what it's worth, these "inexperienced college kids" have carried Obama this far, despite any advantage Clinton might have among "seasoned" activists like yourself.

[ORDem]

209. OMG, now the HRC supporters are using the "experience" argument.

Are they all so condescending? Or just bitter that their "experienced" candidate ran such a piss poor campaign.

:dem:

[NastyRiffraff]

210. I can understand the OP in principle

I've been vacillating about how much, or if, I'll work for the Obama campaign. And that's not like me...I worked as a kid for the Kennedy campaign, unofficially of course. I even met Jack Kennedy once (very briefly; he told my mother I was "cute") And I've worked in every presidential campaign since.

But now? I'm hesitating because first, I don't like or trust Obama. There, I've said it. Flame away. Second, I've been insulted by smug and arrogant Obama supporters with a superiority complex, and not just on DU (which I could ignore). I've been called stupid, old (I'm a young 60), useless, a fossil, and much much worse when I tried to get into a substantive discussion about this primary race. And I'm supposed to WORK with these jerks? Please.

I'll definitely vote for the Democratic nominee; I DON'T want McCain or any Republican in the White House. But I can't work up enthusiasm for Obama. If I do volunteer, I'll just tell myself I'm working for "a Democrat in the White House."