Why I'm DONE.

[AnarchoFreeThinker]

No, it wasn't the big yes on the Iraq War Resolution. It wasn't all the pro-death-penalty stuff. It wasn't even the vote to legitimize cluster bombing of civilians. It should've been. But it wasn't.

No, it's the fucking picture. I know it's politics. It's a contact sport. But I'm now done with Hillary Clinton. If she wins the nomination, I'm still done with her. No, I won't vote for her against McCain.

Why? She's just like them. Until now, I would've swallowed the policy differences, her inability to unite, her disastrous decision-making skills, her phoniness. I would've kept it all down somehow and voted for her over McCain if she somehow outflanked Obama for the nomination.

Now, that will never happen.

She has some people to fire today, some real (REAL) outrage to express at her own campaign publicly, and a duty to destroy the notion that it's just politics to play to people's fears.

Don't fool yourself, Hillary supporters. That's all it is. If you think this is about just providing people with information or leveling a fair charge at Obama or about the fact that something ought to stick to him, finally, after all, then ask yourself what that charge is: that he's dressed like an African when he was in Africa? What, exactly, needs to "stick"? That he looks like he could be Muslim after all?

No, we know what this is about. WE ALL KNOW. We're not the party of terror alerts and fear-based politics. We're not the party of WAR ONLY. We're not the party of bigotry. We're not the party that plays to the worst aspects of humanity. At least we shouldn't be.

If Hillary is going to make us that sort of party, then I opt out. If Barack doesn't win the nomination, then our party is going to be short my one very insignificant vote this November.

[grasswire]

1. I'm done with people who trust Matt Drudge...

...as a source.

[dkf]

4. Its on politico.com, rawstory, ABC and MSNBC now.

According to rawstory, the pic was emailed by Clinton staffers to reporters.

They have asked for confirmation, but haven't had a response yet.

Politico has had a "no comment" comment.

[UALRBSofL]

8. This is going to be a long summer

As Huckabee said this morning, he and Hillary are in it to the convention because neither candidate will be able to get the number of delegates to put them over the top. No arm twisting can change that.

[cali]

37. nah. don't worry. she's cooked to a turn.

she can't get to 2025 no matter what. she'll drop out next week after she loses TX. Campaigns always say they're in it for the long haul, but hill's campaign isn't even saying that anymore. Last week bill said she couldn't win if she lost TX or OH. Insiders are pressuring her to withdraw. It's almost over. No long summer.

[rodeodance]

49. long long

[Tatiana]

5. How about Hillary's own campaign then?

They have refused to deny they circulated the photo to reporters when asked.

[Abacus]

6. It's one thing to distort, but

this would be a straight out lie. Is it your position that they made this up?

"Wouldn't we be seeing this on the cover of every magazine if it were HRC?" questioned one campaign staffer, in an email

[npincus]

13. Hillary campaign did not deny nor confirm.

So what do you think that means? (rhetorical)

[UALRBSofL]

2. I'm sure I can say this for the Hillary Camp

Likewise for most Hillary supporters in reference to your voting status.

[DemGa]

3. We will have to develop a social psychological term for the Obamas

How about: supposition based confirmation?

[arewenotdemo]

7. Perhaps you haven't seen Maggie Williams' response to the question?

[Straight Shooter]

11. Do you have a link, please?

Thank you. :hi:

[yourguide]

21. nondenial from HRC

from politico:

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0208/Clintons_response_the_days_Drudge.html#comments


The Clinton campaign puts out a response from Maggie Williams, which doesn't respond to the question of whether a staffer was circulating the photo of Obama in Somali garb, but takes issue with the Obama campaign's embrace of the issue:

Enough.

If Barack Obama's campaign wants to suggest that a photo of him wearing traditional Somali clothing is divisive, they should be ashamed. Hillary Clinton has worn the traditional clothing of countries she has visited and had those photos published widely.

This is nothing more than an obvious and transparent attempt to distract from the serious issues confronting our country today and to attempt to create the very divisions they claim to decry.

We will not be distracted.

[Straight Shooter]

44. Until they find out exactly who distributed the photo, they need to be careful with their words.

Otherwise it could bite them in the butt, or it could play to their advantage if it's traced to an Obama campaign worker. Or maybe it came from that a**hole GOP operative Roger Stone. Or maybe it was a freeper. Maggie is not omniscient. Also, if she wanted to use the photo to Hillary's advantage, she could have done so. She's right, though, about the Obama outrage. He should have downplayed the reaction. He downplays everything else, why the uproar over this photo?

I like Maggie Williams a helluva lot more than I like that piece of slime Robert Gibbs.

[yourguide]

54. Sorry

turning this around on the obama campaign is pretty low.

that is NOT a denial

[Straight Shooter]

64. I said either accusation would be ridiculous.

As for turning this around, who knows where it really originated? It's been on the Internet since February 4th, at least.

When was the photo even taken, and why didn't Obama distribute it himself after it was taken, to get ahead of what his campaign managers must have known would be a subject of distraction.

[yourguide]

65. If you can defend this then keep drinking the Clinton

kool aid, all dems know the implications of this and the purpose. I expect this from Rove and Co, not from one of our own.

and just because "it's been on the internet" doesnt mean the clinton camp should distribute to perpetuate the bullshit. jesus christ, so it's on the internet that Hillary is a lesbian, is it ok for the Obama campaign to circulate an innocent photo of HRC kissing another woman?

Just stop, please dont try and defend this. You cant and you shouldnt, I called Obama out when he made that stupid snarky remark about being likable enough, the least some of you HRC supporters can admit when your candidate crosses the line.

[Straight Shooter]

68. There are other threads on this forum indicating the photo came from Repubs.

I think it's all a tempest in a teapot and I'm not affected either way by the photo. I'm going to wait until all the evidence is in before I make a judgment as to who is responsible.

Please stop lecturing me. I've had it up to my eyebrows defending Obama against smears of "Muslim connections" to people here who live in my red county.

[yourguide]

70. That's no excuse for the CLINTON'S to send it out!

[Straight Shooter]

75. As I said, all the evidence is not in.

I'm seeing posters representing that it was Plouffe who began sending this image out, also, we well as one DU'er who said the ploy could be to detract from the Farrakhan imbroglio which is developing. In other words, by expressing outrage that Obama is portrayed as Muslim, they deflect the notion that Obama has sympathetic policies with Farrakhan.

There's also a story beneath the story, especially when the timing is so suspicious. This photo was printed on the cover of The Enquirer weeks ago.

Also, I wouldn't trust Drudge as a source for information. He's an evil little f*ck. Remember the brouhaha over the "affair" Kerry allegedly had.

I'm sure Rove is somewhere, laughing his fat arse off at the Dems squabbling over this issue.

[yourguide]

76. WHERE IS THE DENIAL???

All I saw was a nondenial. Blaming Obama somehow.

Rove wouldnt be howling so hard if HRC & Co didnt send it out!

[Straight Shooter]

78. Please stop yelling at me.

I've responded as many ways as I can to this. I'm not going to dissect what Maggie said.

I'm outta here for the day. Maybe things will have calmed down by this evening. :hi:

[grasswire]

83. it could be a Rather type ploy

It's pretty clear that it is from the right, meant to bait both Dem campaigns.

[madaboutharry]

9. This photo business is very upsetting to me.

If she didn't know this and someone from her campaign put this out, then she is not in control. Putting this photo out is really racist and I can not for the life me understand what someone was thinking. She has no crediblity now in complaining about his campaign or comparing him to Karl Rove.

Ugh, it just makes me want to turn away from the whole thing.

[1776Forever]

15. My feelings exactly - makes me ill! Shame on you Hillary!!!!!!!!

:hangover:

[Big Blue Marble]

18. That is what negative campaigning does.

It suppresses the vote. She wants ot suppress the Obama vote and hold on to her own.

[Straight Shooter]

10. Maybe obama's campaign leaked it so they could blame it on Hillary.

Jumping Jeezus on a pogo stick, one accusation is just as ridiculous as another. It started at Freeperville on Feb. 4. See MassDem's thread posted in this forum.

[Big Blue Marble]

20. You know that is silly.

There is no advantage to Obama.

[Straight Shooter]

30. I said one accusation is as ridiculous as another.

It all started with Rove bugging an office and blaming it on Hightower, and political machinations have gone downhill ever since.

[TheDebbieDee]

24. But this could be true!

The Obama Campaign is full of former Clinton operatives. Of course they know all the tricks she will use because they helped her use these tricks in the past.

So, now they are with Obama and use the tricks first and blame them on Hillary's campaign. The media is so in love with Obama that they just repeat what they are told by the Obama Campaign. The MSM is being used as stenographers yet again.

[TheDebbieDee]

12. Good-bye!

[Barack_America]

14. You know what, dmsRoar, I'm with you.

I cannot cast my vote, if my vote will support these tactics. If this is what the Democratic party desires to unite behind, then it is no longer a party I can support.

In the meantime, I'm going to do everything in my power to keep that from happening.

[yourguide]

16. Fire people HA...she issued a non denial today

from politico:

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0208/Clintons_response_the_days_Drudge.html#comments


The Clinton campaign puts out a response from Maggie Williams, which doesn't respond to the question of whether a staffer was circulating the photo of Obama in Somali garb, but takes issue with the Obama campaign's embrace of the issue:

Enough.

If Barack Obama's campaign wants to suggest that a photo of him wearing traditional Somali clothing is divisive, they should be ashamed. Hillary Clinton has worn the traditional clothing of countries she has visited and had those photos published widely.

This is nothing more than an obvious and transparent attempt to distract from the serious issues confronting our country today and to attempt to create the very divisions they claim to decry.

We will not be distracted.

[Mezzo]

17. After "Harry & Louise" I feel the same way about BHO

I'm DONE with him. Say whatever you want about that Harry and Louise mailer, it is NOT the Politics of Hope, and certainly not what I would HOPE politics to be. He promised he would be different, and then took a page right outta the 90's right wing smear machine. Isn't going backward what he wanted to avoid? Again, THAT it can even be identified as the Harry and Louise lookalike ad proves that it was indeed a play right outta there. My guy was Edwards, but I am disappointed at the Practice of Politics, as opposed to Practicing What He Preaches. (hope)

And if *HE* can take that page, all bets are off for him.

[npincus]

19. like your post

but for me, she lost me on the IWR vote.

[Unsane]

22. I will NEVER vote for Hillary Clinton now.

Before today, I was willing to hold my nose and pull the lever. But now? I will NEVER vote for her. FUCK THIS

[sharp_stick]

25. No

fuck you

[Unsane]

26. Fuck your race-baiting, fear-mongering candidate.

[sharp_stick]

28. Whaaaa

Shit now the list is uneven again

[CitizenRob]

34. Fuck your ANTI-DEMOCRAT Hillary.

You want that traiter to our party in office? FINE. But I wouldn't vote for her after this. I'm putting my foot down. I could've held my nose before, but after seeing what her campaign did over the weekend I have to say that I'm DONE playing the Clinton/Bush Merry-Go-Round games. FUCK HER, AND FUCK HER GOD DAMN CANDIDACY.

[Mezzo]

38. Fuck your 90's REPUBLICAN Barrack.

You want that traiter to our party in office? FINE. But I wouldn't vote for him after this. I'm putting my foot down. I could've held my nose before, but after seeing what her campaign did over the weekend I have to say that I'm DONE playing the Obama/KenStarr Merry-Go-Round games. FUCK HIM, AND FUCK HIS GOD DAMN CANDIDACY.

It's so useful when you dish, but can't take.

I suppose the Harry and Louise thing was fine with you.

[CitizenRob]

42. Fine, none of us well vote for a Democrat. You win (moron.)

[Mezzo]

51. so both of us should vote for him, HYPOCRITE, and none

of us should vote for her. You're acting like an ass. Dish, but can't take.

[AlinPA]

45. Up until today I felt the same, having gone back and forth among our candidates. nt

Now, I'm fed up. I really wanted either of them to win. This picture is going to hurt Obama, it will be on TV like the Dean "scream". Damn.

[grasswire]

84. why don't you have a profile?

Time for DU-ers to start checking the creds of posters who don't have profiles, IMO.

[sharp_stick]

23. Why I'm done with you

:puke:

I'm sick to fucking death of this bullshit fake outrage over any candidate but your own.

I don't give a flying shit if you're supporting Obama or Clinton, you are all a bunch of whining fucking children.

Frankly nothing here makes me more sick than this, I'm taking my ball and going home if I don't get my way post. What are you twelve? Do us all a favor and STFU with the bitching and moaning.

I can't believe how full my ignore list has become recently. I've had one poster in there since the day I logged in 2004 until this nomination became a two way race. Now it's got almost a dozen, not counting the tombstoned that I've been able to remove, split damned near evenly between so called Obama and Clinton supporters. Actually with you, it is evenly split, thanks for the symmetry at least for a little while.

x( :mad:

[AnarchoFreeThinker]

29. proud to be ignored since 11:17 EST

[Arkansas Granny]

27. Please check out this thread. This picture has been circulating

on the internet and in print for 3 weeks.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4758064

[Barack_America]

33. So you think that HRC should be circulating it?

Because that's what her campaign has apparently been doing (no denial) and THAT is what people are angry about.

Not who originally published it, but who is PUBLICIZING it, and why.

[Arkansas Granny]

39. Has anyone seen any proof that her campaign has actually

circulated it? This picture has already been posted by the freepers and has been on supermarket displays for 3 weeks. I'd like to see some actual facts before I make any judgments on this.

[AnarchoFreeThinker]

36. point: who is pushing it point: why

[Arkansas Granny]

41. It's on Drudge's site, not Hillary's. So who do you think is pushing it?

[AnarchoFreeThinker]

46. Drudge and Hillary.

Saying the obvious: "we didn't do it."

What H's campaign said: "what's the problem? Hillary dresses up overseas, after all."

I'm not going to pretend they didn't do it when they won't even pretend they didn't do it.

[rodeodance]

40. Thanks AK. I just

logged on and am trying to figure out what the heck is going on.

[Arkansas Granny]

43. It seems that people are going into mass hysteria over a story

on Drudge report.

:eyes:

[rodeodance]

47. so it does, so it does. just read two threads--several more out but

most reading the drama queen stuff.

[Extend a Hand]

31. I am voting for the democratic nominee

And if you don't then you will be responsible for President McCain.
Get a f*cking grip. It's a political campaign it's going to be nasty. You will never know the truth about who is responsible for much of the nastiness. SO IGNORE IT.

[CitizenRob]

32. I could've held my nose. But now she's a traiter to the party.

And after this I wouldn't vote for her if she were the last Democrat after a Stalinesque purge of Bush/Cheney's political enemies.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

35. Wah Wah Wah. Go Away.

[AnarchoFreeThinker]

56. this is the full Clinton Camp defense, I take it

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

57. Nope. This Is From An Educated Voter Who Cares About People Outside Of Himself.

You wanna forgo voting for your selfish tantrum reasons? Fine. Go in a corner, cry, and leave the voting to adults who actually give a shit about the country and the world more than they do their own selfish pet issues.

[AnarchoFreeThinker]

59. OMC, with all due respect, this line of argument isn't up to your own standards...

how can you defend THIS in any way?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

62. So What You're Saying Is: This Incident Means More Than The Risk Of Losing Women's Rights,

continued war, continued deficit, continued loss of civil rights, global implications, and an all around 8 additional years of a total clusterfuck? You think this one incident outweighs all that?

Yeah. You've got your head on straight. Yeah. You're not being selfish and throwing a tantrum. Whatever you say pal.

[AnarchoFreeThinker]

63. presumably about one half of the million dead Iraqi civilians were women and girls...

...and you want to lecture me on what's best for women's rights when your candidate banged the drum without even reading the NIE?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

66. Keep Your Parrot Squawk Up. But You Can't Deflect From The Direct Issue Presented To You.

I nailed you and you know it. Now you can either do the right thing and back away from your tantrum like declaration, or you can hold onto it which then makes you guilty of every damn thing I said. You've got a choice to make pal.

[AnarchoFreeThinker]

69. okay, me first then:

If H wins the nom, why should I vote for her when her hate-based rhetoric suggests she could at most be good for WHITE women? Why should I trust her judgment, if she thinks THIS is best for the country? Why should I vote for her, if she shows ZERO accountability for what her campaign has done? I'm through with presidents who deny accountability, aren't you? Why would I vote for someone who plays to fear in order to manipulate the masses? I've had enough of that, too, haven't you?

So, no, I won't vote for a candidate who stands behind a racist message/attack, all the while naively believing my country will be the better for it.

Now, please explain how you can vote for a pro-death penalty, pro-Iraq War, pro-cluster bombing candidate and how Hillary's IWR vote was best for a half million dead women and children.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

71. So What You're Saying Is:

John McCain is better for women, has better judgment, has taken accountability, does not play to fear or manipulate the masses, and doesn't have any sort of racist messages or attacks?

Hmmmmm. Sorry, but I find that to be really really dumb.

Unless, of course, you want to take a dumbass nader-like position of saying there's no difference between the two. Now, you don't wanna go ahead and do that, do ya?

Stop being so selfish and think about what I'm tellin ya.

[AnarchoFreeThinker]

72. fair enough...I'll think about it. Now, please answer my question to you.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

74. Your Answer:

Because I'm not a selfish, closed minded, ignorant jackass.

[AnarchoFreeThinker]

77. right back where you started.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

81. Yup. As The One With The Winning Argument.

Tah tah! :hi:

[Bluerthanblue]

86. winning really isn't everything dear friend-

(and I call you that from the heart, not as sarcasm)

If it comes down to voting for Hillary, and I am still up and about- walking and talking, I will cast a ballot for her.
But I will do it with more sorrow and disgust than I could ever imagine feeling for a candidate that I have no choice but to vote for.

Winning at any cost isn't winning. If you sell your soul for a win, and get what you 'want'- that still makes you a loser.

But... I will reluctlanty give her my vote if need be- and hate myself for doing so.

I don't expect you to understand, agree or even care what I think, but even still, I feel it is important for me to say it anyway.

peace~

[mculator]

48. Matt Drudge Owns You.

[AnarchoFreeThinker]

50. why pretend H's camp didn't do it when they won't even pretend they didn't do it?

[mculator]

52. You're being shallow.

You just want me to switch to Obama. That won't happen while Hillary is in the race, now way. She's first rate stuff, not some show business promise maker.

Obviously she can't deny it because she hasn't a clue yet, this is a new story. If someone did it, they'll be fired. You know this, and yet you use your post to ask a question you can't accept the answer to. What if I Druge said Obama called her a bitch? Will you at least pretend you wouldn't still be in love with your rockstar loverman president?

edited to add:

... i can be shallow right back

[AnarchoFreeThinker]

55. mculator, I'll gladly apologize when she fires somebody

anybody.

fair enough?





ed.for misspelling mculator

[Laurab]

53. I'm with you. Not just because of this one thing.

Because of ALL the negative campaigning and lies - I will sit this one out if by some miracle she manages to dirty play herself into winning - and that's the only way she CAN win.

[CitizenRob]

58. It's called a tipping point. We've reached it. Stick a fork in her.

[maximusveritas]

60. It was their response that bothered me more than just the picture

If this was just a lone staffer sending this picture around, I really wouldn't care. But the fact that the campaign said Obama should be ashamed if he finds the picture divisive really pisses me off.

[AnarchoFreeThinker]

61. you bet

[Iggo]

67. Why do I get the feeling you're not really done?

[Araxen]

73. If we can't win in 2008..we'll win in 2012

We'll just have to make sure we can run in 2012.

[karynnj]

82. I do think she'll still be able to win her Senate seat in 2012

She is after all a smart woman and will be a 2 term incumbent and I assume that President Obama will campaign for her to make any people still thinking of the then long ago nastiness realize that he values her as a strong Senator who would then be on the verge of having significant seniority.

[still_one]

79. I am a major Obama supporter, in fact I just donated again today, through the matching donor thing

but much as I agree with you regarding the picture and outrage, for me no matter who the Democratic nominee is, that is who I will vote for in November

I understand your feelings though, but look at it this way, coming out of the primary, our nominee, most likely Obama, but even if it is Clinton, will be more than ready to take on the repuke 529 which will be far worse

[cotdom]

80. IF you wont vote for the democratic nominee, then you dont belong here.

Period. Get out!

[AnarchoFreeThinker]

88. if you won't decry race-based fear-mongering in our party, you don't belong here.

Period.

[Unbowed]

85. I wonder if the negativity from Clinton and the possibility of a rift in the Democratic Party ...

is what started Nader sniffing around?

He knows he can't win, but he's admitted that what he's running against is the two party system. Isn't it ironic, that HRC might be his unwitting ally in this?

[eridani]

87. What if it's Drudge instead of Clinton?

Please don't fall for this crap.