After the Cleveland Debate, Not Even Clinton's Spinners Could Claim Victory for Her

[babylonsister]

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/davidcorn/2008/02/after-the-cleveland-debate-not.html

After the Cleveland Debate, Not Even Clinton's Spinners Could Claim Victory for Her

By David Corn | February 27, 2008 9:16 AM

Here's a simple way of summing up Tuesday night's debate in Cleveland between Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton.

Minutes after Thursday night's debate in Austin ended, the Clinton campaign zapped out a triumphant email to reporters:

snip//

No such email followed the conclusion of the Cleveland debate. About an hour after it finished--it took an hour?!--the Clinton campaign disseminated a statement from Ohio Governor Ted Strickland, a Clinton supporter:

Hillary Clinton showed Ohioans again tonight why she is uniquely qualified to be president and begin turning our economy around on her first day in office. Hillary is the fighter, the doer and the champion Ohio's working families need. No one is better prepared to deliver quality, affordable health care for every American and lead our country as commander in chief.

Note that there was no claim of victory. Another Clinton email cited positive insta-reviews in the media about Clinton. NBC News' Andrea Mitchell, for instance, had said that Clinton "came across very credibly, very strongly as a fighter." That was true. The problem was that Obama came across rather well, too. None of the quotes her campaign found useful described Clinton's overall performance as a game-changer. And that's the point. She did perform in a fine manner. But Obama, coming across as smooth, confident, smart, passionate, and poised, did at least as well, if not better. It was the Clinton camp that wanted more and more debates. But Obama keeps improving, while she long ago hit the ceiling (and it's a high ceiling) in terms of debate performance.

So the Clinton campaign was--finally--unable to spin a victory claim. That would be playing with reality too much. And when a presidential candidate's spinners cannot claim a debate win, that candidate is in trouble.

[ORDem]

1. Wow! Considering how they even spun that standing ovation at the

previous debate for HRC (it was the end of the debate, so it was for both candidates) then this is really, really bad. I'd say they are just about to throw in the towel. It's got to be extremely depressing in their meetings about now.

:kick:

[NJSecularist]

2. Yes, Clinton's spinners sure could claim victory for her

.... have you seen this forum since the debate ended?

[donheld]

5. For some DUers, if Hillary had

Laid on the floor and kicked and screamed, they still would claim Hillary won.

[Tarc]

3. Is this the last of babylon's 3 GD-P post allotment?

Time to go get lunch soon, and I'd rather not hurl it back up upon returning.

When the other person just weakly "me toos" half the time, that is a win for her by default.

[Just-plain-Kathy]

17. You have to be kidding. Obama was great last night. Hillary looked half a sleep.

She didn't come across as a strong leader, she seemed weak and acted like the underdog.

[eleny]

4. She's playing checkers - He's playing chess

[Froward69]

8. short and

succinct... bravo!

[eleny]

10. Thanks....

And hi from Lakewood!

[grantcart]

15. She's NCAA hes NFL

[UALRBSofL]

6. Hillary's Reviews Are In: ‘A Strong New Note,’ ‘Effective Tone,’ ‘A Solid Body Blow’

Lindsay Levin 2/26/2008 11:09:54 PM

NBC News’ Andrea Mitchell –Hillary ‘came across very credibly, very strongly as a fighter.’

NBC News’ Domenico Montaro – ‘That was a solid body blow by Clinton on Obama not holding a single hearing on Afghanistan.’ “That was a solid body blow by Clinton on Obama not holding a single hearing on Afghanistan despite that he talks about it being the front line on terrorism and that he chairs the subcommittee on Europe, which oversees NATO. While Obama's explanation may be realistic -- that he became chair at the beginning of his campaign -- doesn't it reinforce Hillary and Bill Clinton's points that he is inexperienced, that he has only been in the Senate for a limited time and hasn't cut his teeth yet. Doesn't that play right into the inexperience narrative quite well?”

ABC News’ Rick Klein – ‘It does seem like Clinton has settled on an effective tone this evening.’ “That silly distraction of an SNL reference aside -- it does seem like Clinton has settled on an effective tone this evening. She's mixing substance with style, attacking without seeming overtly negative, sounding like she's playing defense when she's really playing offense.”


The Swamp's Jason George – 'Clinton strikes a new strong note, saying she plans to get $55 billion back from special interest groups for the American middle class.'

NBC News’ David Gregory said Hillary’s ‘answer on having to be a fighter on health care is her strong suit.’ “Senator Clinton the fighter. This answer on having to be a fighter on health care is her strong suit. Her point in lampooning Obama's high-flying oratory is to say, I, too, had only the highest ideals about public service in Washington. But I know through experience, you need different tactics. This is her experience argument.”

MyDD’s Todd Beeton – Hillary’s ‘I’m a fighter’ line was ‘one of her best selling points.’ "Hillary Clinton: "I'm a fighter." One of her best selling points, especially against Obama."

Ohio Daily Blog – ‘Clinton did well with Russert's question about her 2000 pledge about creating jobs in Buffalo.’

WCPO Radio’s Dan Walthrip – ‘Hillary Clinton certainly claimed ownership of the word 'universal' in terms of healthcare.’

[babylonsister]

11. Tell that to Cleveland:

:eyes:

http://www.cleveland.com/editorials/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/opinion/1204113439284890.xml&coll=2


Editorial: Barack Obama showed in debate he has best chance to achieve changes
Wednesday, February 27, 2008

snip//

In purely political terms, Clinton needed somehow to change the momentum of a campaign that is undeniably slipping away from her. She failed.

As he has done repeatedly in recent weeks, Obama consistently deflected her efforts to portray him as callow or somehow indifferent to Democratic Party principles.

Obama disputed the idea that he is all about pretty talk. But he noted, quite effectively and correctly, that to achieve real change, a president must inspire the American people to demand it, must bring together people in a new sense of cooperation and self-interest.

In her final seconds, Clinton urged voters to ask themselves who can actually change the country.

The problem for her is that the question had already been asked and answered.

And once again, Obama had prevailed.

[UALRBSofL]

14. Waves to babylonsister

:hi:

[emilyg]

18. !!!

[ClassWarrior]

7. He got the only applause line. She got the only boo line.

All other things being equal, that says a lot.

NGU.

[psychopomp]

9. Two points

First, the image of a "fighter" does not seem to be apt given Sen. Clinton's "meet me in Ohio" posturing before the debate, which led to a lot of anticipation for a Bust-Up in the Buckeye State.

That package was not delivered when she met Sen. Obama in Cleveland. Whether she was spent or not, she just did not seem to be able to get things started for herself during the debate.

My second observation is that Sen. Clinton looked as a person who had, deep down inside, resigned herself to yielding to her opponent. If you look at how things have quieted down on GD-P (take a look at thread views) it seems a large number of people foresee an end coming soon for the past few weeks' emotional roller-coaster.

In that light it might be best to tone down the rhetoric and even pause for silence as the icy grey waters lick at the deck of the once-invincible ship that was the Clinton campaign.

(edit: who knew that GD: P when typed without the space would come out looking like GD:P?)

[global1]

12. The Operative Word From The Clinton Camp Was "Fighter".....

most of the HRC surrogates last night and this morning made sure that they said that word. This must have went out before the debate and was reinforced afterwards.

I don't think it worked.

[Imagevision]

13. Hillary lost this debate in her opening statement...!

[grantcart]

16. Ted is not having a partiuclarly good week

First he gets stuck on stage as solo back up singer for Clinton meltdown now he gets stuck with driving the bus out of the ditch.
No wonder he is saying Ohio is in doubt


http://www.texasobserver.org/article.php?aid=2689
After Sen. Barack Obama's decisive victory over Sen. Hillary Clinton in Wisconsin, Ohio Gov. Ted Strickland was reported expressing doubt to political colleagues about whether he could hold his state for Clinton during the two weeks remaining before Ohio's Democratic presidential primary March 4.

Polls taken before Wisconsin voted gave Clinton a double-digit lead in Ohio, a state necessary to sustain her presidential hopes. A Clinton win there also might be needed for Strickland's chances to be the running mate for either Clinton or Obama