Perception game. Hillary has not lost '11 straight contests'

[publicatlarge]

From msnbc article: 'having lost the last 11 straight contests' referencing Hillary Clinton.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23437753/

She actually lost '4 contests' since Super Tuesday and the Americans Over Seas vote. Feb 9th, 10th, 12th and 19th - and Americans Over Seas. Not '11 straight contests'.

It is this kind of framing which I believe to be bullying and Rovian in nature. There is much of this kind perception put 'out there' by the MSM and Obama surrogates. It's not exactly 'dirty', but it sure isn't clean.

Oh, wait! Only HRC engages in dirty politics.

[adoraz]

1. ok?

I don't really see your point, but whatever. She has lost 11 straight primaries/caucuses in a row. happy?

[slick8790]

2. Are you kidding?

A contest is one primary/caucus.

And you talk about spin and perceptions.

[quantass]

3. Lost 10 states in a row + 1 Abroad == Noone wants this itch

[yourguide]

4. ROFL

Mark Penn, is that you?

[Window]

5. Huh?

[nomorewhopper]

6. very interesting analysis

your analysis of media bias and spin is incredibly detailed. i'm very impressed with your post, especially since you apparently haven't even learned how to count to eleven.

*sarcasm*

[adoraz]

23. ROFL!

[mohc]

7. Well in that case

Clinton has lost 6 or 7 straight contests. If a contest is just a date with primaries and/or caucuses, Clinton has yet to win anything as there has not been a single day where she received more delegates. At the very least Obama would have to be given 1/26 and 2/5, he won 1/19 on delegate count. 1/8 (NH) was a tie, otherwise he has won every "contest". But that simply is not what contest means. Primaries and caucuses are just types of contests, and she has lost the last 11 primaries or caucuses.

[WVRevy]

8. Seriously...we HAVE to fix Public Education!

If someone can get on the internet and post, yet can't even master the basic math skills to count to 11....we need a SERIOUS revolution in education in this country, people!

[babylonsister]

10. HA! Good point! nt

[publicatlarge]

17. In re education - how about an actual response to the premise of perception and framing? n/t

[tekisui]

20. I responded, and listed the 11 contests, you choose to ignore.

[publicatlarge]

Agree she lost 11 contests....

...and I was not trying to ignore. Went to look at the user profile options, and get a cup of java.

[WVRevy]

22. Simple enough...

The OP is attempting to "frame" the argument that there have only been a very limited number of voting days since Super Tuesday, all of which Hillary lost. He/She is attempting to create the perception that her slide has not been as bad as it has been portrayed by stating that she hit a slump, but that Tuesday will turn that slump around. He/She is trying to tell undecideds - as if THAT were a big demographic here on DU - that they shouldn't jump on the Obama bandwagon or OFF the Clinton bandwagon because the momentum he has been credited with is not what it appears.

Frankly, it's a bullshit argument. She HAS lost 11 seperate contests since Super Tuesday, and they are listed further down in this thread. Each was a SEPERATE primary or caucus, thus a seperate CONTEST. It's spin...pure and simple.

Thus endeth the lesson.

[mohc]

28. You are the one misusing the word "contest"

A date is not a contest. Primaries and caucuses are types of contests. Obama has won 11 straight primaries and/or caucuses, or in other words Obama has won 11 straight contests.

And if we accept your definition of contest to mean a primary and/or caucus date, then as I stated in my previous post you have to extend his winning streak. Obama won 2/5 (he got 14 more delegates) and 1/26. There is no clear date that Clinton has won, as her best performance so far is her tie in New Hampshire. By this "framing" of contest, Obama is undefeated in contests!

You take your pick, either Obama has won 11 straight contests, or he is undefeated in contests.

[quantass]

9. Whew! And i thought Hillary was done for -- i mean 11 straight losses would have been a disaster

oh wait...that state, plus that state, plus ... hey..

:hurts:

[tekisui]

11. Learn to count.

LA, NE, WA, DC, MY, VA, HI, WI, ME, Virgin Islands, and Dems Abroad.

That's 11 straight. Soon to be 14 or maybe even 15.

[grantcart]

37. you may like my spin # 32

[tekisui]

46. Yep.

I also said, 11 of the last 11 contests. How's that?

[grantcart]

49. yeah but since CA its really 12 for 12 lol

hint: its a little sneaky

[City Lights]

12. You can't be series!!1111!!!

:rofl:

[theboss]

13. I'm lost...

Are you suggesting that caucuses (cauci?) do not count?

[quantass]

14. So this means she's lost 100% of contests since Super Tuesday -- I smell comeback!! (roll eyes)

[publicatlarge]

15. Usual predictable reponses. n/t

[quantass]

16. Ask a silly question...n/t

[tekisui]

19. Because you are so fucking wrong. Seriously, learn to count.

[VolcanoJen]

18. Really?!???!???

[tekisui]

21. You are intentionally ignoring facts. Where's your profile, anyway>?

[publicatlarge]

24. Wondering the same thing myself! How* does one make it 'visible'?

Edited it to add info one day, and it disappeared. Must be a sign of some kind, eh?

:)

[tekisui]

25. Go to Options.

Go to "Edit your Preferences".

Chose "NO" on "Hide Your Profile"

But, Seriously. Count the 11. I posted them. You may be wanting to count days, but multiple contests occurred on each day. Look up thread.

[publicatlarge]

36. Got it! Thanks!

Not trying to be trollish in the observation regarding perceptions - btw. Just like to micro-analyze anything having to do with communications, especially in politics. Not denying the reality that Obama is ahead and has momentum.

[Sir Jeffrey]

26. Wow...

On Feb 9th, Obama won WA, LA, NB, and the Virgin Islands. That is 4 contests.

On Feb 10th, Obama won ME. That is 1 contest.

On Feb 12th, Obama won VA, MD, DC, and the Democrats Abroad contest. That is 4 contests.

So far, we have 9 contests.

Then, on Feb 19th, Obama won HI and WI. That is 2 contests.

So, in total, 4+1+4+2=11. Obama won 11 contests.

During the time that Obama was winning those 11 contests, Clinton won zero contests. She was *attempting* to win those contests, but she lost all of them. So we take the zero contests that Clinton won, and compare that number to the contests Obama won, 11, and we get 11-0 in favor of Obama.

So in conclusion, when you read about Clinton having lost the last 11 straight contests, it is not "dirty politics." It is 100% factually accurate.

To state otherwise is to deny reality.

[publicatlarge]

27. Definitions....

'Straight' may be construed as to be 'consecutive'. : following one after the other in order : SUCCESSIVE.

Of the eleven 'contests', many were grouped together, at the same time - hence not 'straight' or consecutive. Etc....

It is a point, especially if you are dealing in perceptions.

[tekisui]

30. No dice. They are consecutive.

They happened in different places in the country, different timezones. It is ridiculous to claim that they are not consecutive wins.

11 of the last 11 contests, how's that?

[publicatlarge]

38. That's a fair assessment. n/t

[Spider Jerusalem]

31. Parse words all you want. She's still lost eleven primaries since her last victory.

[mohc]

35. So if a baseball team wins a doubleheader

They can not count that as winning two straight contests because they occurred on the same day?

[publicatlarge]

43. In politics, the concept of development of strategies and momentum ...

...is an important part of the process. So, yes - it matters to state HRC lost 'eleven straight' contests. It implies she may have had time to make adjustments in campaign strategy, etc...when in fact that is not the case. My thoughts here regarding perceptions, I freely admit are a micro analysis. But these perceptions do have an impact.

[chascarrillo]

29. Apparently, knowing how to count to 11 is "Rovian".

Wow.

[grantcart]

32. How about this instead?

From the time that California primary closed Hillary Rodham Clinton has lost every single primary election held. These include 11 primaries and/or caucses plus Dem Abroad, all by landslide majorities. In addition to these 12 contests she has also seen her lead in super delegates cut almost in half.




Yeah your right that is much better.

[dansolo]

33. But she lost Super Tuesday

By your logic, she lost super Tuesday because Obama got more delegates than her. As a matter of fact, she hasn't won a single contest.

[slinkerwink]

34. Wow at the awesome stupidity in the post.

[Mass]

39. In this case, she lost SuperTuesday, as he got more delegates than she did.

+ South Carolina

It is a nice string of losses.

6 straight losses, by your standards. Is that better?

[JeffR]

40. Fuzzy math.

As someone once said.

[f the letter]

41. Math is not Rovian.. i'm not big on Obama or Clinton, but

you really are spinning these numbers by saying Clinton lost only 4 'contests' . If states had primaries two each day for 25 days, is that 25 contests or 50?

[Adelante]

42. Oh, this is pitiful nt

[publicatlarge]

45. How is this pitiful, WesDem? n/t

[stillcool]

44. It depends on which states count..

and you're right..it's not exactly 'dirty' but it sure ain't clean. That's some kind of Democracy they're pushing, eh?

[publicatlarge]

47. Well, yes. You are correct...

It is neither dirty or clean. Just that politics is a game of perceptions.

[high density]

48. Is this a sarcastic post or are we supposed to take it seriously?

Because I am laughing my ass off!

It's bullying and Rovian to recite the fact that Clinton has been losing a lot of states!

You should get a carbon monoxide detector for your home. I fear your brain may be deprived of oxygen.

[publicatlarge]

50. Well, I used the term 'bullying' because...

..there has been a lot of piling on HRC by the MSM over the last couple of weeks. And the brilliance by which this 'lost 11 straight contests' has resonated as it has, seems to give it the magic Rovian touch.

In* retrospect, I deserved many of the negative comments when I referred to the 'dirty/clean' politics, etc. Have been infected by the ambiance of GD-P/DU style, I guess. I accept responsibility for that.

Whatever - it is a small point. I just delivered it badly.

[high density]

52. I still fail to see how using facts gives something a Rovian touch

This reminds me of the Republicans who are constantly moaning that no good news is being reported in Iraq.

Team Clinton has to generate good news for it to get reported. Losing "11 straight contests" is what has happened, and I think she's getting a HUGE benefit of the doubt from everybody.

[VolcanoJen]

54. I mean, really

It is what it is, but it certainly isn't Rovian.

[VolcanoJen]

51. It's all in the way you look at it.

:-) Spin this...

[publicatlarge]

53. It's spinning furiously on it's own. :) n/t

[VolcanoJen]

55. Well, seriously, though.

Do you see anything "Rovian" in that graphic?

I'm totally confused here.