Hillary being called a "Bitch": Makes me want to get on the next wave of feminism

[cap]

I dont know about you guys ... but I am sick of Hillary trashing. I support Obama but I do not like seeing Hillary trashed. Anyone interested in signing up for re-examining women's rights and coming up with a new platform please post below.

Anyone who wants to debate the "bitch issue" please go to another thread. There are lots of other threads for that issue. I will ask the mods to delete your post if you insist on continuing that argument here.

Hillary and Obama supporters, let's come together on this issue. Please start posting about the stuff you would like to see the next Democratic president do for women.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

1. Why Is Sexism Accepted In So Called "Polite Circles" But Racism Isn't?

Ditto for homophobia being acceptable...

Shouldn't we condemn all forms of bigotry with one voice?

[leftofcool]

8. Yes we should

But women who are powerful, agressive, smart, and out and out fighters will always scare the hell out of men and many women. Using sexist or denegrating langage toward women is how those doing it combat their own fears, at least in their own minds.

Left of Cool

[Dinger]

47. Goddamn Right

I wonder how long a thread with the "N" word would last, or how often it would come up? people who start that shit are going down the wrong path, and as I predicted earlier today, an increasing number b***h threads has popped up in GDP. Yes, this shit HAS to stop.
But at least when this primary is truly over, 99.9% of these people will disappear.

[powergirl]

2. Obama supporter here and I do not tolerate

name calling and labeling women. Obama stays above the fray.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

4. I Still Hear "So Called" Educated People Making Homophobic And Sexist Remarks

~

[rodeodance]

10. thank you. I know Obama would be appalled by the name-calling of some of his fans here on DU!

[midora]

78. A Mean Woman

No, it's not appropriate to call a public figure running for political office a bitch. That five letter word might be accurate, but I won't use it. How about if I say she's a mean woman whose weapons of choice are vitriol and bitter sarcasm? I would never vote for her, and if she wins the nomination, I will be staying home on Election Day.

The sad thing is I actually agree with her on a lot of things. But her sniping and negative attacks turn me off. She is too partsian and too divisive.

[saltpoint]

3. Thanks for bringing the issue up, or not, as the case may be.

When Senator Clinton held a commanding lead in opinion polls last summer and well into the fall and late fall, I didn't hear objections to her being victimized.

When her campaign's ineptitude and arrogance resulted in a plunge in her polling, then we got the Hillary-as-Victim threads.

No sale. She entered the field "to win it," she said, and she knew what she was getting into.

She's an Ivy League-educated woman and a 2-term U.S. Senator, as well as a wealthy former First Lady. I add that up and don't get "victim."

[DemocratSinceBirth]

9. How Does Losing Her Lead In A Poll Turn Her Into A "Stupid" Or "Fucking Bitch"?

If Barney Frank loses his congressional seat does that turn him into a "flaming faggot"?

[saltpoint]

11. You are connecting two disparate things. Try evaluating the one you raised.

If your contention is that sexism exists, of course it does. I seriously doubt anyone will argue that point. I hope they don't, anyway.

But Clinton was champ for months on end but there were no posters railing against sexism in regard to her candidacy while she was in the lead.

And a substantial lead it was.

[Sparkly]

15. Yes, there were.

I started defending her against sexism when she was in the lead, as did others.

[saltpoint]

20. Well, good, but the point stands, doesn't it, that the sheer number of

posts portraying her as the victim of sexism increased exponentially correspondent to her losing her once-commanding lead?

Senator Clinton's problem is not sexism. It's lousy campaign strategy.

[Sparkly]

23. Do you have a graph or something?

And, can you factor in the number of posts on the primaries overall?

[saltpoint]

26. That can be your project if you want. You have a star. Do your own

footwork.

Clinton has lost ground not least because her campaign has been a shitty mess.

[Sparkly]

29. It was your claim, not mine.

And I'm not arguing about her campaign. That's a separate matter.

[saltpoint]

30. If it's a separate matter, Sparkly, then the OP is mistaken.

It is in fact my claim and I'll stand by it.

[Sparkly]

71. The OP is about calling Hillary a "bitch"

not a discussion of how well her campaign's been run. :shrug:

[saltpoint]

86. I get the point, but I see that the post was presented in GD-Primaries

and that Senator Clinton's name is predominant.

You can understand why one might think that was on the OP's mind.

[Sparkly]

89. This is silly.

You said "there were no posters railing against sexism in regard to her candidacy while she was in the lead." That's what I responded to.

Perhaps because you didn't have a response to my response, you introduced a different track. No, it wasn't the OP -- clearly, that was written by an Obama supporter sick of the apolitical attacks on Clinton. I think the point there was clear.

So, I'll take this all as an "Okay, there actually were some posters railing against sexism in regard to her candidacy while she was in the lead." Many posters defended her while not supporting her campaign. Two separate things, as the OP here emphasized, as well.

I accept your apology. ;)

[saltpoint]

93. You think she's going to win the nomination?

And do you really think if she doesn't it's because of sexism?

Now read the OP again.

[Sparkly]

94. I doubt it, but you're changing the subject again.

And in this discussion, it doesn't matter what I think the reasons are.

I don't know what you think the OP is saying. :shrug:

I defended her, as did others, when she was a front-runner. And it didn't have anything to do with her candidacy.

[saltpoint]

95. Her being a frontrunner has nothing to do with her candidacy?

I applaud your defending anybody against bigotry, no question there.

But her candidacy is what is provoking vacuous posts like the OP's.

And a great deal of others correspondent to her plunge in the polls.

She's a candidate for public office. She's lost a big lead. She's no longer the inevitable nominee. The OP cries sexism in the GD-Primaries forum.

[Sparkly]

96. "I support Obama but I do not like seeing Hillary trashed. "

Sometimes things ARE what they seem.

[saltpoint]

97. They may well be what they seem but that doesn't make them thoughtful.

[0007]

49. A shitty mess indeed.

[cap]

60. dont want to debate the point... I am just energized to take action

after the campaign .... that's my point.... Please go elsewhere to debate it. I want action after this campaign is over.... and I want to start making a change in the way we do business. There are too few women in power... Often there is only one.... as in this case.

Please go to another thread and continue this discussion. I want to start to pull together an action plan for 2009.

[saltpoint]

87. Well, cap, I go elsewhere all the time. I go to the grocery store, the

post office, to see a film -- the whole works.

You're posting in GD-Primaries if I'm not mistaken.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

18. You shouldn't attribute someone's actions to their race, religion, gender, or sexual orientation...

It robs all of us of our individuality....

[saltpoint]

21. But robbing "all of us" of our individuality is what I DO. That's why they

pay me the big bucks.

[MethuenProgressive]

5. The HillaryHaters will all fade away soon, no matter who gets the nom.

They're not really Obama supporters, so if Obama wins they'll have nothing to post about anymore.

[rodeodance]

33. so true.

[Beausoir]

67. I don't know about that. That much hate doesn't just vanish overnight. Hate transference is a very

real possibility.

[JVS]

6. She has earned the trashing that she gets by her despicable actions

Now in order not for my disgust to be mistaken for sexism, I will call her a nice a gender neutral term:
She's a total asshole, and I reach this conclusion by taking her at her word.

[rodeodance]

14. the MATURE obamafolk are into vile thrashing nor name-calling!!

[easy_b94]

7. MY mom watch 60 Min. last night and she call her a bitch

[DemocratSinceBirth]

12. I Am Half Jewish

Can I call Jews I don't like kikes, Jew bastards, and Christ killers?

[tyne]

13. But....

SNL said that "bitch" is the new black. And we all know that Hillary uses SNL as the guide for honesty.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

22. Did They Say Bitch Should Be Prefaced By "Fucking" Or "Stupid"?

~

[tyne]

28. Why would that

matter?

Did they say "bias unfair media" should be prefaced by "fucking" or "stupid"?

[Marie26]

32. That's so missing the point

I can't figure out if the people who keep bringing up SNL are just clueless or willfully obtuse. As if, now that SNL did a skit, it's now totally OK to call women a slur! That skit was about taking ownership of a slur & removing some of the sting. Other groups have done this as well; gays have adopted the word "queer" as a way of taking away the negative power of the word & showing pride. But that does not give permission to people to use it as an insult & way of demeaning somebody.

[I Vote In Pittsburgh]

57. My mom is in her 60s and she calls her a bitch too

And my mom would walk over coals to strangle Bush.

[cap]

59. This remark is off topic

[I Vote In Pittsburgh]

61. No it isn't

The fact that so many women are insulting Hillary implies that there is more to Hillary hating than sexism.

[cap]

64. I did not intend for this thread to be a discussion of whether there is sexism

I want this thread to be about being energized to do something about it such that this does not happen again. Please go to other threads and continue the discussion there.

[JoFerret]

74. your mom has a problem

...it's known as internalized misogyny.
(And your point in reporting on your mom is...?
Do you think that because you mom is female that makes it OK? Geez. we've not come very far it seems.)

[susanr516]

16. I don't know how to handle it.

The main difference I see in sexist/homophobic remarks vs. racist remarks is that most of us seem to be able to recognize a racist remark immediately. In the case of sexism/homophobia, many people don't have a clue that their remarks are considered disparaging to these groups. Just because one may use a sexist term about a man, or a homophobic slur about someone who's straight, doesn't make those terms and slurs less sexist/homophobic.

Am I making sense? Maybe gently pointing out the nature of these terms after the heat of the primary wars has lessened might help.

[Little Star]

17. The sexism, hit what I thought was my last nerve, at the Iowa debate. Then

came the New Hampshire debate and it threw me over the top! Who knew that sexism would turn me from a hard core Edwards' supporter into a Hillary supporter? I am glad it did though, because it made me get to really know more about what her policies are. I still have a soft spot in my heart for Edwards, he became my second choice until he dropped out. Point being: I was shocked to see how many sexist's do not even know that they are sexist. I thought we had, come a long way baby. I was very wrong, we've got many miles to go.

[UALRBSofL]

19. Who is calling her a B****?

Is it the media or all the Obama supporters?

[MethuenProgressive]

34. "Name removed", mostly. Our Mods are doing fine work!

If only tombstones followed for the Haters...

[rodeodance]

36. some

obama supporters have take it as their sport today.

[dysfunctional press]

24. hillary needs to stop acting like one, then...her "as far as i know" comment re: Obama's religion-

was just a slimy jab that she didn't have to tack on to her statement.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

31. That's A Ridiculous Argument

If a Jewish person uses shoddy busineness practice does that make him or her a "Kike"?

If an African American person robs a 7/11 does that make him a "N-word"?

If a gay person says something you find offensive does that make him a "fag"?

[dysfunctional press]

37. it's more than just the one comment- it's her entire demeanor throughout this campaign.

the "as far as i know" comment wasn't necessarily the bitchiest, just the latest.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

39. Your Argument Becomes More Ridiculous

Let me ask you a question.

If a person offends me is it morally permissible for me to attribute that person's actions to his or her race, gender, religion, or sexual orientation?

For instance my former business partner and I got cheated by this man who happened to be gay... My former business partner used every homophobic epithet he could think of to describe the guy...Was that permissible?

[dysfunctional press]

44. i'm not blaming hillary's campaign conduct on her race, gender, religion, or sexual orientation-

i'm blaming it on the fact that she's being bitchy about a lot of things- and if obama were being bitchy about it, i'd say the same about him.
but he's not.
she is.

as far as your business partner's attitude- as long as no actual laws were broken, then yes,it's "permissible" because people are entitled to their opinions. if he did it in a way that breaks the law, then no- it's not "permissible"- that's how free speech works in this country. you may not like or agree with everything someone says- but that has NO bearing on their RIGHT to voice their opinion.

would you prefer that the 1st amendment be scrapped entirely, or just re-written to suit you? :shrug:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

45. The First Amendment Only Protects You From The Government

If it didn't Fuzzy Zoeller, Don Imus, Jimmy The Greek, and Al Campanis would still have the jobs from which they were fired from...


You still miss the point...When I was nine years old, an African American kid stole my bicycle...By your logic he would be a n-word...To me he was just a thief...

Interpeting someone's actions through the prism of race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, etcetera is the hallmark of bigotry...

[dysfunctional press]

66. they may not have jobs- but they weren't prosecuted for anything involving what they said.

i don't think you know what your point is-
btw- the only way that "my logic" would make the black kid that stole your bike a ni**er, is if that's what YOU really wanted to call him. (and that certainly seems to be the case)

as i said before- i'm NOT interpreting hillary's actions through race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, etc.- i use the word "bitch" to describe bitchy actions by both men and womem, and hillary was being a royal bitch in her comments about obama's religious affiliations.

it REALLY is that simple.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

68. It Is Not That Simple

You refuse to acknowledge that you're interpeting her actions through the prism of gender...I am glad, that even at nine years old, I knew better than to interpet someone's actions through the prism of race...

People do messed up things all the time and it has nothing to do with their race, gender, religion, or sexual orientation.

What part of that don't you understand?

And for your edification here's the definition of bitch:


bitch /bɪtʃ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. a female dog.
2. a female of canines generally.
3. Slang. a. a malicious, unpleasant, selfish person, esp. a woman.
b. a lewd woman.


When you're in a hole it's time to stop digging...

[dysfunctional press]

73. it is that simple for me...i use the term bitch in reference to both men and women...

if that's too difficult a concept for you to grasp- it's not my problem.

it's yours.

:hi:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

75. Maybe You Need To Create A New Dictionary And New Definitions

bitch /bɪtʃ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. a female dog.
2. a female of canines generally.
3. Slang. a. a malicious, unpleasant, selfish person, esp. a woman.
b. a lewd woman.

[dysfunctional press]

76. not necessary...

i know exactly what i mean.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

77. You Can Call A Horse A Plane But That Doesn't Mean It Can Fly

~

[rodeodance]

35. She talks of how the Muslim rumor is a smear job-Did you forget that comment in your hate?

Forum Name General Discussion: Primaries
Topic subject SHAME ON YOU, Steve Kroft, for asking Hillary about Obama's religion!
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4856180#4856180
4856180, SHAME ON YOU, Steve Kroft, for asking Hillary about Obama's religion!
Posted by Apollo11 on Mon Mar-03-08 05:08 AM

AND SHAME ON YOU, Obama supporters, for accusing Hillary of trying to gain some kind of political advantage by supposedly encouraging voters to be fearful of the possibility that Obama might be a Muslim.

PLUS PROPS to Hillary for dealing with this question with clarity and truthfulness! B-)


Hillary Clinton on CBS - 60 Minutes - March 2nd, 2008 (my transcript)

KROFT: You don't believe that Senator Obama's a Muslim?

HILLARY: Of course not. I mean that's, you know, there is no basis for that. You know, I take him on the basis of what he says. And, you know, there isn't any reason to doubt that.

KROFT: You said you take Senator Obama at his word that he's not a Muslim.

HILLARY: Right. Right.

KROFT: You don't believe that he's a Muslim?

HILLARY: No. No. Why would I? There's no ... No. There's nothing to base that on - as far as I know.

KROFT: It's just scurillous ...

HILLARY: Look, I have been the target of so many ridiculous rumours. I have a great deal of sympathy for anyone who gets, you know, smeared by the kind of rumours that go on all the time.

[saltpoint]

38. Hillary Clinton knows full well what church Barack Obama belongs to.

Her remarks were untoward and smarmy.

"As far as I know..."

[dysfunctional press]

40. but the "as far as i know" comment basically negated all of that.

it was totally unnecessary, especially with the inflection she put on it while speaking.

[saltpoint]

41. Agreed. Sen. Clinton forgets, on purpose, that words really do matter.

And her choice of words in that interview was notably smarmy.

[Sparkly]

25. How about reviving the Equal Rights Amendment?

Even if it never passes, it does get the debate going.

[saltpoint]

27. I'm for it and endorse your idea. It's long overdue, in fact,

and should have been undertaken in the 8 years of the Bill Clinton administration.

Next best time is right now.

[cap]

81. hear hear....

(fist pounding the table!)

[saltpoint]

42. I am not seeing any "wave" of feminism as a bad wave to get onto, and see

them all as one "wave," and not several. That Oldsmobile commercial never had much impact with me.

So this is in fact your mother's and great grand-mother's feminism, IMO.

If you are going to hop onto a feminist wave, I suggest a different list of exponents. Katha Pollitt would be very high on my list, well ahead of Hillary Clinton.

I think feminism rightly begins with a time none of us can remember in temporal terms. It begins with Sappho's poems. More recently it is manifest in the life and work of Georgia O'Keeffe.

Adrienne Rich.

Maya Angelou.

Dar Williams.

Etc.

[totodeinhere]

43. You are always going to have a certain amount of that in any campaign.

Obama can't control what some of his fanatical supporters might say at DU, including the use of the "B" world. Likewise, Clinton can't control all of her supporters either. It's the nature of the beast. But the vast majority of supporters on both sides are good people who don't engage in sleazy rhetoric. That's the thing to remember.

[Barack_America]

46. I don't think that Tina Fey meant any harm. n/t

[rodeodance]

48. Sexism is candidate Clinton's primary opponent [Philly Inquier}

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/opinion/20080123_Sexism_is_candidate_Clintons_primary_opponent.html

Sexism is candidate Clinton's primary opponent

Jodi Enda- is a former White House correspondent for Knight-Ridder


Posted on Wed, Jan. 23, 2008


No one has called Barack Obama a witch.

No one has suggested John McCain is too ambitious.

No one has disparaged Mitt Romney for misting up.

No one has accused John Edwards of faking emotions.

No one has depicted Mike Huckabee as calculating.

No one has critiqued the pitch of Rudy Giuliani's voice.

No one says male presidential aspirants are cold or feisty or careless about their cleavage (or any other anatomical feature). If they tear up, or even - gasp! - cry, no one says men are too weak to run the country. If they blow a gasket (à la Bill Clinton), it's manly. If they blow off a question (classic Reagan), it's strategic.

But when a woman has a chance to win the presidency, all bets are off. It's no conspiracy; this is America.

Sure, Hillary Clinton is a popular target in ways that other women are not. Clinton-hating is something of a blood sport, and nothing Clinton does will undo that. Still, the haters did little to diminish her husband's popularity (no matter what he did to help them) when he was in office. We're talking about something different now, something . . . sexist………

[printpolitico]

50. bingo

If women are to overcome this dark cloud that is looming above they are going to have to band together much as did the black community and fight for the right to fair pay and
fair scrutiny and most importantly equal rights within the sub conscious of the worlds male community. You have many women who stand up for their rights and fight. But you have two other groups that hurt the fight for equality. The first is the religious community that takes the Bible out of context and say if you are female you are to be sub servant to the man. That is
if you read that verse without reading it in it's entirety and taking the entire Bible's contents as they are meant to be read. The second is the group of women who are afraid to stand up to their
men, for whatever, personal reason they may have.

Sounds silly, but watch a show like survivor when the women have a chance to vote off the last man standing and go unified into a final four, they almost always let the
guy manipulate them into keeping him and he ultimately wins.

It is time we unify and take a stand. Hillary is a strong woman but even she sometimes seems afraid to enter those open doors Obama gives her in the debate. ( don't get
me wrong I understand she doesn't know which way to turn because the media spins it. But I say go for it and see where it takes you.)
Then watch Obama. He radiates arrogance. Some might see this as strength but this is a turn off in much the same way as GW Bush. But even Bush didn't exude this kind of arrogance because of his bumbling nature.

[rodeodance]

54. There is another group--who take things for granted--the rights many early

worked for, died for.

the 8 hr shift. workplace safty, child labor rights in early 19th c.the list goes on.

birth control, ect ect.

[cap]

62. You have some good ideas but let's not lose them in

don't want to talk about Hillary/Obama... let's talk about changing the world.

[saltpoint]

51. No it isn't.

The deal was an inside job.

[rodeodance]

52. Sexism has played a role--i do not agree it is primary.

[saltpoint]

88. But sexism, whether nuanced or overt, plays a part in a lot of things.

There is also, for example, reverse sexism.

And racism.

And agism. Mike Gravel, in the 07-08 nomination race, is a hell of a smart guy, incidentally closer to Edwards and Kucinich on the issues than to either Obama or Clinton. He's a white male. If sexism (or racism) were the force the OP is suggesting, Gravel would be well ahead of the two frontrunners. White males own the joint, right? But Gravel is too anti-corporate and too "old" for some tastes. Not for mine, maybe, but I'm only 1 of 300 million U.S. citizens. And I've been known to be esoterically liberal.

There are anonymous women who suffer the genuine wounds of sexism. Virtually none of them is running for president. Posts on DU, IMO, which cast Sen. Clinton as a "victim" of sexism, are not persuasive. All women may theoretically be in the path of that storm but some of them take a far more direct hit from the twister than an Ivy League attorney/Former First Lady/2-term Senator/and wealthy citizen like Hillary Clinton.

[0007]

53. Be my guest

[redqueen]

55. It fucking well pisses me off.

She's a politician. Obama went dirty when he said she was "likeable enough" but nobody called him any dirty words which refer to the color of his skin.

I've alerted on every asshole I've seen post it.

[cap]

56. Let's focus on what do we want to do next...

Forget the Hillary/Obama primary.
My ideas are:

1. Remove the glass ceiling: Given the large number of boomer women in the ranks, there is no reason why women are not 50-50. They've had their kids... so kids arent an issue

2. End the discriminatory layoffs...

3. Provide mentoring for junior women so that they can identify when they are being tracked into areas that will not lead to promotion/pay increases. It's their choice if they dont want to do this.

4. Encourage women to think of themselves as breadwinners and take on extra responsiblity and pay. I find a lot of women in service related industries will stay as a customer service rep/cashier etc. and not ask for pay.

5. Provide Daddy time and force men to take it. Men should be doing their share of the work of child care and taking care of their own relatives when they grow old. No one should be penalized for doing this. Actually, people who don't take an appropriate amount of time off for their kids should be socially ostracized. This time off should reasonably accomodate parental responsiblities.

5. Identify culturally appropriate ways for women to express strength without turning into an automaton. Identify culturally appropriate ways for women to express power. These should be the same as those for men. Identify culturally appropriate ways of talking about women in power.

6. Identify stereotypical means of denying women access to power in our society.

7. Prepare for women leadership in the community.

This is the intent of my post.... I dont want to hear another word about Hillary/Obama. I want to hear suggestions of what we want as a society.

[cap]

58. I'm alerting the mods on some of this...

Let's get back on the subject. If I cant get this thread back on subject, I will ask the mods to shut it down. There are a lot of other threads for people to discuss Hillary/Obama primary.

[Maddy McCall]

80. Do not give the obnoxious fuckers the power to shut your thread down.

Ignore the trolls.

:hug:

[Bucky]

63. Thank you! I'm for Obama, too, but the reflexive sexism against Clinton is appalling

I never quit being an old style, radical feminist dude. Me and Phil Donohue.

[Beacool]

65. This Saturday is International Women's Day.

If this past election season has taught us anything, is that we may proclaim to be very progressive in this country but in reality we are a backward nation when it comes to true equality among the sexes.

Hillary has been trashed by the MSM and by too many others based on her gender and not her stance on the issues. The endless wasted hours of air time and inches of print on subjects such as: her hair, age, weight, cleavage, laughter (cackle), voice (shrill), marital problems, sexual desirability (or not), etc.; have left a very bad taste in my mouth and that of countless other women.

This Saturday I will have very little to celebrate..........

[DURHAM D]

69. The number one issue for women that needs to be addressed is health care/insurance.

Getting insurance, keeping insurance, or living without is the number one issue for women from 0 -65. If we have universal health care women will be able to make different and better decisions.

For instance, my older sister can not retire until she reaches 65 when medicare kicks in because it is her job that pays the $700 monthly insurance premium for herself and her husband. Meanwhile, she leaves work every day and goes to visit my parents - Mother in a special needs unit (Alzheimer's) and Father living semi-independent in the same facility. My sister stops to buy the groceries for my Dad, pays the bills, talks to both their doctors, takes time off from work to take them to appointments, prepares their tax returns, does their laundry, fights battles with the pharmacy over double billing, etc. etc. etc. She spends 30-40 hours a week addressing their needs. When she gets a few days vacation built up she takes time off to fly to Chicago or D.C. in order to baby set her grandchildren so that her stressed out children can get away for a few days with their spouses. She never complains but she needs to retire because it is too much for her. BTW, when she goes to take care of her grandchildren I take time off from work to fly across the country and take care of my parents. I need to retire also but can't until medicare kicks in.

This is a long story to point out that universal health care is the one thing that will positively change women's lives to the greatest degree. I don't see where this is Obama's passion but I know that it is Hillary's. In the AARP debate Hillary talked about the squeeze on women (like my sister) who are caring for their parents and their children in this way. She wants to change social security so that women providing care can retire earlier without being penalizing on their SS benefits and, of course, universal health care takes care of the issue of working only to retain health insurance. Obama chose not to attend the AARP debate. Universal health care needs to be the passion of every feminist and every Democrat.

[cap]

82. Your right about health care

and I think we have to bring back the working wage and an 8 hour day.

[RoadRage]

70. Hillary even seemed to think it was cool to call herself a "bitch"..

at least that was implied with her overt happiness with all of the SNL skits. "Bitch is the new black".. certainly didn't seem to have any complaints from the Clinton campaign.

I guess it's OK if it's in a positive context, but not OK if it's in a negative one? :eyes:

[Medusa]

72. I'm a woman. I've been called bitch.

I've always rather taken it as a compliment. I prefer ball-buster though.

[Beacool]

79. Good one!!

:rofl:

[Hoof Hearted]

83. I'd like her to be a woman.

[BeyondGeography]

84. Hillary says she's not a bitch and I take her at her word

Is she a bitch? Of course not. As far as I know.

[cap]

98. back to the original post: what are we going to do for the next wave of feminism...

I think we need to concentrate on developing a farm system rather than gloaming on a candidate's personality or lack there of.

There are a lot of women who really dint like the word bitch. Just as African Americans have moved on from the word "colored" or "nigger" can't we have our wishes heard? that we just don't like the word used? Yes the are African Americans who use the word nigger between themselves but non-African Americans generally stay away from that word out of respect for other people's sensitivities.

At any rate, back to the intent of the original post, how must feminism change so that we can deal with some of these issues? Who here wants to change it?

[sandnsea]

85. I'll just call her a rat bastard from now on

Just like I do every other corrupt lying rat bastard in the country. Better?

[jzodda]

92. LOL

thats more like it!

[boston bean]

90. I never thought I would be on the wave, but since NH, I've been riding the tidal wave. nt

[seabeyond]

91. i am voting obama and i sure will yell about the seism shit too. n/t

[krabigirl]

99. I think she should own the bitch label. I don't mind being called a bitch. That said, sexism sucks.

[seabeyond]

100. i ahd a 15 yr old tell me being called a whore was ok because it just doesnt mean

the same thing anymore.

i told her that was bullshit.

then i thought how a couple decades ago being called a bitch was pretty nasty, but now a days, us women. .... we are just owning it.

i wonder today, if this si what we want.

anyway, not important to this thread or your post necessarily, was just thinking about it

[Fire Walk With Me]

101. It doesn't surprise me that we've ended up with the two most easily demonized Demo candidates.

Who would the Republican strategists want to be our choices? Those most easily demonized and used to create argument and division. I posted about this a while ago and it seems to be coming true. If WE use these differences amongst ourselves, it will be even easier for the swift boaters come November.

Divide and conquer. :shrug: