Hillary is not a traitor but she did just star in a powerful ad for McCain

[cali]

if Obama is the nominee. And that's the problem with her comments of yesterday. There was no qualifier about McCain, just praise with a false statement about Obama. You may think he doesn't have enough experience, but to claim he has none at all, is simply false. She has four years more in the Senate than he, and that's it. He has 8 years in the Illinois Senate in addition to his 3 years in the U.S. Senate, and if Hillary is going to count her years as First Lady and other stuff, he's certainly free to count his years prior to being elected to the Illinois leg as experience.

Her comments were unusual because they can be used so neatly by the opposition. It was going negative. And it was not good for the party. She placed her ambition above the needs of dems as a whole.

[Wetzelbill]

1. I think so

I don't believe she is a traitor or anything, but what she said was a bad thing. Maybe a mistake, maybe she forgot the qualifier, it would be easy to do in a moment like that, I don't know. However, what she said is certainly fodder for a RW attack.

[gateley]

3. I think you're being too generous.

There is a story of Clinton (Bill) pulling out crap about another Dem, and after Clinton won the presidency the Dem came in and said he thought Clinton had been unnecessarily vicious. Clinton smiled and says something like "whatever it takes". I'll dig out who that was. The theme of the story is that Clinton would stop at nothing to win -- all part of the game. I'm guessing Hillary is following that same strategy. It's ugly.

[Wetzelbill]

9. yeah I probably am

I can't argue with that at all.

She's on the ropes, it'll be very tough for her to win this thing, it's upsetting to see her pull out a tactic like that, even if she did make a mistake, just even going along those lines is a bad deal. It's selfish. Why do that? It's a bad deal.

[johnnydrama]

21. that's exactly what i thought

Where was the rest of it where she should have said McCain might have experience, but he wants to be in Iraq 100 years, he wants to bomb Iran, etc. etc..

Obama doesn't say McCain is a war hero. End of sentence.

No, Obama says, McCain is a war hero, BUT here's all the things he's wrong about.

That's how you take the high road and still get in your licks at the Republican opponent.

Not by propping him up over the odds on favorite to be the nominee.

[IsItJustMe]

58. I could not believe my ears two weeks ago when I heard her say the exact same thing on a stump

speech she was giving. It pissed me off then and I almost posted it, but, I could not believe that she had said that. I thought to myself, certainly you must of heard that wrong. I wanted to post so bad, but unlike most journalists, I do believe in integrity in reporting something.

As hard as I tried, I could not find that stump speech again on TV or the internet. I said to myself, you just heard it wrong; and even if you heard it the way it sounded, the msm would most certainly cover it.

I heard it right the first time and the msm did not cover it at all.

[Wetzelbill]

61. I believe that

Sadly, I have no doubt you're right and you did hear it right.

[gateley]

2. If Obama's the nominee,

you can bet McCain will be all over that statement -- "even his fellow Democratic contender says I have more experience than he does". I can just hear it now. Stupid stupid stupid. If she doesn't get the nomination, does she think shit like this will just go away?

Nice job, Hillary. The McCain campaign thanks you.

[cali]

5. Absolutely. It will be one of the central ads of the McCain

campaign in the general. And that's why candidates are normally careful NOT to hand that kind of ammunition to the opposition.

[bvar22]

50. If Hillary is the nominee, the same applies.

Hillary will NOT be able to run on "experience" against McCain.
McCain has waaaaaay more experience than Hillary.

It was a stupid, stupid, stupid thing to say.
All Hillary's "experience" sure didn't help her when she made that comment.

[dkf]

4. Her only loyalty is to herself. If Obama loses to McCain Hillary

will run again in 2012. Its her last chance...her only chance.

She and Bill have been planning for her to win the Presidency since he was in office. Ergo, they find a nice Senate seat, contemplate her running in '04 but pass on it for a little more experience, and here we are, what was supposed to be the culmination of the dream.

If Obama wins the Presidency Hillary's dream dies. So it is in their personal best interest if he loses either the nomination or the general election.

End of Story.

[JI7]

6. that was the problem i saw

it's one thing to talk about why you might be a better candidate. but she pretty much said McCain would be more ready as President than Obama.

[gateley]

8. It ALMOST makes me want to see Hillary get the nom,

then get pulverized by McCain in the GE.

See what I've become?

[bridgit]

7. McCain will never be able to live up to the kudos too many think she gave him

[cali]

10. huh? What does that have to do with anything?

She absolutely said that McCain had the neccessary experience to be President and that Obama did not. It forms the basis of a strong attack against Obama if he's the nominee, precisely because Hillary Clinton said it. It's not a matter of giving McCain kudos, it's a matter of saying that Obama is not qualified to be President and McCain is. Surely you're not going to deny that that's what she said. It couldn't be said any clearer.

[bridgit]

13. She said McCain had a lifetime of experience he would bring to the WH...

he does have a lifetime of experience, as does she. In fact the pertinent component of the quote is this, "I know Senator McCain has a lifetime of experience" Your contribution here,

"She absolutely said that McCain had the neccessary experience to be President" is a flat-out canard, a ruse, and only serves to further dilute...it's a form of yellow journalism.

Her point was clear at least to me, and, sadly, especially for BO peeps, she was making it the expense of BO's inexperience because he has so little. Which no BO peep cares to even consider. The guy won't even attend his own committee on very important issues. Issues over which he could be gaining valuable experience. Come On!!

Let us not speak of political opportunism in one case, and utterly forgive via ignorance in yet another which, by the by, just happens to be the guy you support. I've seen cherry picking time, I know what it looks like, she also said this,

"I have the experience to run against McCain" and she does

[cali]

14. You are dissembling in an attempt to justify. How hillarian.

She absolutely said that McCain has the neccessary experience and Obama doesn't. It was an unusual comment because of it. And Obama does have experience. She has exactly 4 more years in the Senate than he has. That's it. And although SOME of her First Lady time can be seen as experience, much of it cannont. During much of that time she was doing traditional First Lady things.

She doesn't have the experience to run against McCain. He'll crush her on the experience thing. He has 25 years in the Senate and a military background. He'll make a mockery of her claim of great experience. And it will work.

[bridgit]

16. And you're auditioning for ObamaGirl but hey! He already has one!!

Yeah, yeah, yeah, cali, whatever you say, dear. Here's the entire quote over which you seek to dilute; cause it's easy to see that you're wrong and you just don't get it...

"I think that I have a lifetime of experience that I will bring to the White House. I know Senator McCain has a lifetime of experience to the White House. And Senator Obama has a speech he gave in 2002," - Hillary Clinton

That's it, that's all there is, cali. You can keep harping on this ruse of yours till the cows come home, but that was all she said.

McCain will not crush her as easily as you personally hope that he will. He won't get past Charles Keating. She will have that old coot walking in circles, talking to himself, and baying at a full moon don't kid yourself.

So now it's first lady this & yada-yada that, what a hoot! Tell your guy to get over to his committee, cali. It's a serious world out there, and he needs to have been putting in some time on the clock.

Again? With the "She absolutely said that McCain" blah-blah claptrap? You are the dissembler, cali. I am convinced you are proud of your efforts.

[cali]

17. um no dearie. I have plenty of gripes about Obama. Unlike YOU

I don't do the adulation thing. Spin away, hillybot, but she said that McCain and she have the neccessary experience and Obama doesn't. It's handing a marvelous ad to McCain to use during the general against Obama.

As for Keating, that hasn't touched McCain. Don't depend on it. And far, far more voters think Hillary is corrupt than McCain. It may not be true, but that's the percepition outside of Hillyworld. Hsu, Giustra, Gupta, and much much more are waiting in the wings. They won't be for much longer.

No one could possibly motivate repukes AND independents more than Hillary if she's the nominee. They'd crawl over broken glass to vote against her.

She's run an epically bad campaign in the primaries, enabling the "inexperienced" Obama to outsmart her and outstrategize her. There's no reason to think she wouldn't run the same shit campaign against McCain. Not saying she couldn't win, but the odds against her are greater than the odds against Obama.

[bridgit]

48. Yes, Obamatron, I have my orders: Defeat Hillary, Defeat Hillary, Hillary Must Be...

Defeated Under The Scourge Of Your Despotic Lies & Ego Driven Canards; Defeat Hillary, Defeat Hillary, Hillary Must Be Defeated Under The Scourge Of Despotic Lies & Ego Driven Canards; Defeat Hillary, Defeat Hillary, etc, etc, etc, yada-yada blah-blah...enjoy your Kool Aid, dear, I hope it is cherry flavored just for you, to remind you of that one little cherry you picked from a whole orchard of cherry trees

[americanstranger]

56. You might want to at least accurately quote Clinton.

Here's the exact quote, not a paraphrase:

"He’s never been the president, but he will put forth his lifetime of experience. I will put forth my lifetime of experience. Senator Obama will put forth a speech he made in 2002."

Splitting hairs, I know. But let's be accurate here.

If experience is the measure of a president, won't McCain be able to point to his experience, which by the nature of Clinton's argument better qualify him to be president?

It might not have been an endorsement, but it was a goddamn stupid thing to say no matter how you slice it.

- as

[Diane R]

11. She IS a traitor. And, she's putting her own desires above the welfare of the party & the nation.

[cali]

12. No, she's really not. She's running a slash and burn campaign

but she's not a traitor. That's a word people should be chary about using.

[Auntie Bush]

38. So now those who run in the primaries are traitors?!?!?!

Welcome to our new world without democracy. Silly you have been listening to bush* telling us this is longer a democracy! Stop believing Bush! Those who are against the war aren't traitors either.

Dammit....this IS a DEMOCRACY! We have PRIMARIES in this country! How the hell can you say someone is a traitor because they are running in the primaries? Do you ever listen to yourself? You're so way out in your thinking...you can't reason intelligently! Take some Ambien and get some much needed sleep so your brain can function.

[tritsofme]

15. I'm still haunted from this 1980 anti-Carter ad:

http://livingroomcandidate.movingimage.us/player/index.php?ad_id=907

I think Hillary made a big mistake with that statement.

[marions ghost]

18. remains to be seen

whether the opposition can use a Hillary statement successfully, but it certainly doesn't do the Dems any good.

There's no way to spin this. It's a clear alliance with McCain over Obama. Reprehensible. There is no defense for such a betrayal.

She may try to say that she meant that she is the best to go up against McCain because they have the same level of experience, but Hillary is too cagey a legal mind not to know what her words implied in context. She knew what she was saying.

Kiss of death for Hillary.

[cali]

19. I doubt it's the kiss of death for her

but it was not a prudent thing to say, that's for sure.

[marions ghost]

20. we'll see...

loose lips sink ships...

she deserves to be castigated for this. I'd like to see her try to explain it, but she'll leave that to her spinners.

[Bongo Prophet]

25. Can't remember a major candidate saying another major candidate was unqualified to be Prez...

Much less an ex president say that of one running on his own party.
And yet both Clinton's have made it a major part of their campaign...

I've been voting since Carter, and can't recall this ever happening before, can you?
I say "major" because it could happen against a Jerry Brown or Al Sharpton, or Mike Gravel saying "all these people scare me" -- but not one who could actually win the nomination.

When I saw Bill doing that from a pickup truck podium here in Tx, it made me furious - called the Carter Center and the Clinton campaign, just to let them know I did not appreciate that level of low politics against a fellow democrat. And I am pretty even tempered, generally.

[WinkyDink]

34. Didn't Poppy call his opponents "Bozos"?

[Bongo Prophet]

37. Yeah, that seems familiar, "these bozos" in the GOP primaries...

I honestly couldn't remember, and some prior campaigns are a bit fuzzy. :)

But the GOP often nominates bozos, so I am not sure if that would denote "unqualified"...;)

[Blarch]

22. she is a fucking hack.

Fuck her and her karl rove followers.

What kind of person attacks the Dem nominee and praises the repub nominee ? ...a republican person does this.

She is a republican ...simple as that. A democrat would not embrace Rove like she did.

[tekisui]

23. It makes me question HER experience. 35 years, and she still doesn't get it?

[salbi]

36. She no longer says 35 yrs experience, it's now a LIFETIME of experience...

[zulchzulu]

24. Hillary is a complete failure, a liar and obviously a reason why Bill cheated on her so many times

She is a turncoat.

Good bye, traitor.

[ray of light]

26. Please don't say that type of crap with Obama stuff all over your sig line. Try to use facts and

not b.s. to defend your guy.

[WinkyDink]

31. Bill Clinton's adulterous behaviors are due to Bill Clinton's flaws, not his wife's.

[Auntie Bush]

39. Typical low below the belt comment by the typical Obama supporter. I can't understand

what it is about him that attracts people like you. Must be the same flaw in his character the attracts like people. You are a disgrace to the democratic party.

[berni_mccoy]

27. Yes. She is as much a traitor as Zel Miller or Joe Lieberman.

[Auntie Bush]

43. What should she do...Lie and say Obama has as much experience as McCain?

Get real! Get you head out of the skyhole and come back to earth...take a deep breath...and face facts and reality. You have been flying high for too long and after awhile one gets out of touch with reality.

Do you actually think The Rethugs don't know or realize Obama has 1 year in the Senate and 3 years on the campaign trail and McCain has about 35? You must think they are pretty dumb to think Hillary spilled the beans. Could anyone ever say Obama has as much experience as McCain? Could anyone ever say McCain isn't experienced with a straight face? That's telling the truth. Some young folk don't like the truth and attack the messenger. Me thinks you are just really scared to face the fact that Obama lacks experience.

[americanstranger]

57. Why not just leave McCain out of the equation altogether?

Put her experience up against Obama's. If she feels that's a winner for her, go for it.

But she did rate the remaining candidates and put a member of her own party behind her (or Obama's) presumptive opponent.

It was a dumb thing to say, no matter how it's spun.

- as

[Auntie Bush]

59. You are not reading between the lines...which are pretty obvious.

She was tying to show that experience matters in the election and McCain has lots of experience...so does she and Obama doesn't. That's what you call politics! But, oh no...you have to make it that she is rooting or recommending or pushing McCain. You couldn't be farther from the truth.

[mmonk]

28. Yeah, one of the first things I thought of was a McCain ad.

They don't even have to do much editing.

[WinkyDink]

29. She didn't even say, "Sen. McCain has much experience---as far as I know." Heh.

[BeyondGeography]

30. She must have been tired of Bill being the only one to furnish the GOP

with anti-Obama content.

Now,both Clintons can be featured in McCain's ads. It's only fitting.

[geek tragedy]

32. She's McCain's most powerful ally. n/t

[WinkyDink]

33. And she is also letting us know how she would vote in a McCain presidency.

[bigtree]

35. Oh, but ANY attack of Obama's is supposedly innocuous and innocent

What a one-sided crock of shit.

[bunnies]

40. The Clinton McCain love fest is incredibly disturbing.

Yet Obama is the one who gets ripped on for "reaching out" to republicans.

Not to mention, the tone of her voice... that nasty, condescending tone. Really made me want to whip something at my TV.

What would a Hillary and John Debate sound like?
I love you more.
No, I love you more.
No. I love YOU more.
:puke:

[bvar22]

53. !

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

41. Oh God The Fucking Drama About This Stupid Fucking Thing.

You all can turn fucking anything into the most outrageous act that's ever been. I swear to god. This is insane.

The comment is so goddamn benign it ain't even funny, and to think for a second a comment like that would have even a minuscule impact ever in the GE is friggin insane. I mean, you think if she hadn't have said that, that come the GE McCain would've NEVER brought up experience as an issue? OH NOESSSSSSS!!!!!11111 HILLARY RUINED IT FOR US!!!!!111

Please DU, get a grip. This is getting out of hand.

[workinclasszero]

42. Hillary the dem traitor in action

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ou4JnWQsxKw

I'm glad there is a youtube so the whole world can see Hillary selling out the democratic party.

She will never live this down!

The remaining super delegates should run away from this traitor now into the arms of Obama.

Its OVER Hillary!

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

44. Traitor. ROFLMAO!!!!!! Do You Not See How Fucking Over The Top And Insane That Is?

Some of you have lost it. Seriously. This is so fucking stupid.

[cali]

49. It was a dumb thing for her to do. As I said, she's not a traitor

I didn't call her names. I simply pointed out that this is handing ammunition to McCain.

And a charge of over the top coming from you is quite amusing. You fly off the handle constantly and your posts often seem to border on the hysterical. Interesting that you have such cognative dissonance. The comment is actually not a smart one to make for the very reason I pointed out. And of course it makes a nifty McCain ad. That should be obvious. You really need to educate yourself a wee bit. And calm down.

[mudesi]

51. I hope you can at least admit that it was a huge error

And that it gave McCain a great sound bite....

You can do that, right OPERATIONMINDCRIME?

[Occam Bandage]

60. McCain will certainly bring up experience. That by no means entails that

Hillary is right to lend her legitimacy to McCain's most likely line of attack.

[Bad Thoughts]

45. "Hillary is not a traitor, but plays one on TV" eom.

[npincus]

46. She's a f*cking TRAITOR... putting her interests before our Party

may karma bite her in her jealous ass... what comes around....

[Tatiana]

47. Her intention was to demean and marginalize Obama.

We'll see if she has any success with the general population using this tact.

As far as Democrats go, I think she made a very huge blunder. The super do NOT like the direction her campaign has taken. I spoke with my other Senator's office (Dick Durbin) and they are LIVID. They didn't give me many details, but you can bet there is going to be a hard press for the supers to "renounce and deny" the use of "kitchen sink" politics against fellow Dems.

[BenDavid]

52. OK....so hrc gets the nomination...mccain cannot use the words

of HRC aginst her, right....right....

Most of you obama folks are so damn worried about race that you, yes obama people have split the damn party in half because you all have made it a race issue.....

[bvar22]

55. You seem to be obsessed with "race".

What's your problem?
Not enough race baiting for your taste in GDP?
YOU injected it into this thread.

As for Obama supporters "splitting the Party", did you not see Hillary's unfavorables before the Primaries even started?
Hillary's "unfavorables" were about 50% BEFORE the campaign even started.
NOW you are going to whine and complain that 1/2 the people don't LOVE Hillary, and THEY are splitting the Party?

Get over yourself, and PLEASE stop trying to inject race into this campaign.

[tammywammy]

54. If this race was truly about experience

Then Dodd or Biden would be the nominee. :shrug: