The problem with Obama: he has always bought his own hype.

[Phillycat]

He gave one good speech, (and don't get me wrong, it was a DAMN good speech, I cheered listening to it on the radio!), and all the uninformed idealists said, "Wow! You should run for president!" And instead of chuckling modestly and saying, "Thank you for your support. I'm going to use the next few years to season myself in the arena of national politics, and I will count on your vote in 2012," he said, "Really? Am I that great? Okay!" And so many yes-men have surrounded him for so long and his arrogance has grown so large that he honestly believes he is OWED the presidency.

Hillary has known all along that she will have to fight tooth and nail for it. She announced her intention to do it and she has, and I'm proud of her.

(posted as an OP after posting in another thread. Blame Maddy McCall and LostinVA. :D )

[tabatha]

1. Nope, he has said over and over again, that is because of the

"urgency of now".

Did Bill Clinton say that he would wait to season himself before he ran at the same age as Obama. Nope.

logic, facts, oh my, where are they?

[Phillycat]

4. Bill had many more years of experience before he ran.

Obama was a STATE SENATOR two years ago.

[FrenchieCat]

18. Obama was a State Senator for 8 years, and a U.S. Senator for 3 years.

So please tell us more about Hillary's 35 years of Experience.
We'd like to know more.

Here's what I know:
Clinton's '35 years of change' omits most of her career: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/26377.html

How Hillary Clinton Betrayed the Children's Defense Fund for Political Gain: http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/editorblog/034

[indimuse]

80. How long was Obama US Senator before he decided to

run ..? 3 years my ass.

[FrenchieCat]

82. Hillary ran for the Senate for the expressed purpose in New York.....

in order to run for Prez...which is why she stuck so many knives in John Kerry's back.

[indimuse]

85. didnt I just see Kerry out on the stump and national TV...trying

to smear Clinton...right before people are to vote...huh?

[Yossariant]

122. delete (responded to the wrong post)

[LostinVA]

15. "Urgency of now" meaning what, exactly?

Seriously. That he's the only one would can help the US? I think ALL of the Dem candidates who ran this year would do a great job. I think Gore would, too, and some of the other Dems in Congress and in Governors' mansions who don't want the spotl;ight quite that much.

This was my main reservation with Senator Obama: the lack of experience at a certain level. One+ terms and I would have been 100% behind him.

[grasswire]

35. I think there's something deeper going on.

I'm just realizing that a lot of code words are being bandied about by the Obama campaign, obviously meant to convey deeper meaning to some people. "Urgency of now." I suspect that has something to do with the African American experience that white folk just can't fathom -- the waiting and waiting and waiting for change in the form of progress.

I can't think of anything else that "urgency of now" might legitimately address.

[Bake]

61. Isn't that a phrase from MLK's "Dream" speech?

Bake

[kwenu]

112. It's a quote from MLK with significant meaning. READ A BOOK!!!!!!!!

[CatnHat]

66. That's why

he told Tim Russert that he would stick out his term as senator? Urgency my ass. He listened to his yes-man. Obama is just a arrogant, self-serving, egotistical man running on empty.

[SammyWinstonJack]

88. !

:thumbsup: Obama is just a arrogant, self-serving, egotistical man running on empty. He is indeed all that. And frankly the last seven years of those traits in the WH have been quite enough!

[Yossariant]

123. "The urgency of now?!?!"

:rofl:

I keep HOPING that he really doesn't talk like some two-bit tv evangelist --- but he does. He does!

:rofl:

[Bigleaf]

2. No, she thought she would be coronated before Super Tuesday. She

didn't plan on a race after that and she lost 11 in a row. I agree she is fighting now because she has to fight.

[Phillycat]

9. She has shown no signs of backing down anywhere along the way.

It is Obama and his supporters who have been riding a wave of media support and hype for so long that they are no longer able to get the job done in the states that matter.

I'm in PA, by the way. We're going Hillary, you can take my word for that.

[Bigleaf]

21. Knock yourself out. You still won't have enough delegates.

[NDambi]

31. she lost 12 in a row...don't forget Vermont..came in before her wins

[LostinVA]

3. K&R -- and I promise to watch your back

So, you can only blame me with a qualifier!

[grantcart]

5. Obama only needs 46% of remaining delegates to get the nomination

Last night was a major step forward he went into HRC's major firewall and lost only 15 delegates

He has more

votes
delegates
primary wins
caucus wins
money
donors
dem govenor endorsements
dem senator endorsements

In the last 4 weeks he has won 80% of the super delegates 66-16

The only mistake yesterday was in not lowering the expectations.

[amborin]

6. yep, he believes his own press releases

[CitizenRob]

87. Not too hard when you're honest in the first place.

[IndianaJones]

7. he has known since childhood he is the chosen...born to bring balance to the force. nt.

[anonymous171]

8. What are you talking about?

Which speech?

[IndianaJones]

11. his sermon on the mount. nt.

[Phillycat]

14. Um, you might want to brush up on your boy and his history in nat'l politics.

It won't be hard, there isn't that much of it.

[anonymous171]

17. He's given more than one speech.

Or are you buying into Mrs. Clinton's hype (bullshit) about him only giving one?

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

93. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

94. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

97. Deleted message

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[Amaya]

119. oh please...

"boy"? - your sense of humor over the years is the same- as is your arrogance :puke:

now -take your ball and go back the lounge- make sure to post about how you were pick on too ;)

[LostinVA]

19. You have got to be kidding us? Right? Please?

No snark, I SWEAR -- but, I am appalled you have no idea what the 2002 speech was.

:sigh:

[anonymous171]

24. Oh that speech.

He's done so much since then. Don't by Mrs. Clinton's shit about that being his only experience.
She's such a liar.

[Phillycat]

30. Well, that is not what I said. You might want to re-read the OP.

[LostinVA]

32. What does HRC's claim have to do with the OP?

Janesez is not Senator Clinton.

And, you Googled that fast.

[Maddy McCall]

10. K/R. Excellent post. And I got yer back, too!

:D

[Maddy McCall]

12. Wow. Went to the greatest page in less than a minute.

See! Toldja it was good. :P

[Phillycat]

16. This is only like my third one there too!

Heh. :D Thanks.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

13. Hmm.

So are you saying that a few months ago when Clinton was leading all of the polls she war realling saying to herself, "nope, I'm totally going to blow this one?" Because she's a realist and all?

[Phillycat]

20. Wha?

[IndianaJones]

27. good luck there. nt.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

36. Did Clinton believe her own hype too?

Or did she know she was going to fail?

[Phillycat]

39. She's been around long enough to discount anything that has no logical basis.

She knew she would have to fight hard, she promised her supporters she would, and she has.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

44. If that were true...

she'd be dropping out right now.

[thoughtcrime1984]

22. Bull.

The campaign that didn't have a post Super Tuesday strategy, because they obviously wouldn't need it, is the one full of themselves. Obama knew he faced and still faces a hard, long road. You want to talk about someone who feels they are OWED the Presidency? Look no further than Lil' Miss Inevitability.

[Phillycat]

26. Clinton has shown she can and will win in the states that matter.

She has concentrated her resources and time in those states. Many of Obama's victories were in states that will never ever go blue in a GE, no matter if the Democratic candidate were God on high. (Sidenote: Obama is not actually God on high. I'm sorry to have to tell you that.)

[anonymous171]

28. States that matter? Stop right there.

BTW, Clinton supporters are the only ones who think that their candidate is some type of demi-god.

[thoughtcrime1984]

33. Ridiculous

I realize he is not a God, what an idiotic thing to say. He can win the same states she is eking out, in the GE. He has more of a chance than her at turning some purple states blue. Oh, and Hillary doesn't have the power to open the skies to start her celestial choirs singing, either.

[NMMatt]

42. The 40 states don't matter strategy

How's that been working for us? Oh wait, we haven't actually won an election in the "Red State - Blue State" era.

[Phillycat]

45. We've been missing crucial components in past elections...like Ohio, for example.

[CitizenRob]

90. Seriously. We have to fight for all 50 states.

Some states are long term goals, some near term. At the very least we can try to at least pick up a seat or two in congress if we can't win the electoral votes for the state.

[LSK]

43. Illinois, Wisconsin, Iowa, Delaware, DC, Virginia, Washington, Vermont, Maryland will all be blue

Also do you think Mass or Rhode Island or New York would vote for McCain over Obama?????? DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT???

[Phillycat]

48. Do you honestly think VA will go blue with Obama over Hillary?

Clearly you have never lived in Virginia.

[LSK]

50. Jim Webb

:shrug:

[Phillycat]

55. Yes, a solid moderate white Democrat.

What exactly is your point?

[ClassWarrior]

57. What exactly is YOUR point with that title?

NGU.

[Phillycat]

60. I'm not being coy, for god's sake.

I lived in Fredericksburg Virginia, where the "n" word is still used in casual conversation, where the Civil War is referred to as the "War of Northern Agression", where the Stars and Bars are proudly flown on trucks just below their NRA sticker. Yes, Northern Virginia is the fastest-growing area in the state, but A, most of those residents don't vote, and B, they're not there yet, in terms of population numbers. I agree that in the future Virginia will be a blue state. But in this election here in 2008, in the real world, there is no way VA will turn blue with a black man as the candidate.

[LostinVA]

70. You're right -- except for Cville and maybe parts of NOVA and the East

I lived there for almost a decade.

[ClassWarrior]

73. So you support your candidate because you're scared of bigots?

NGU.

[Phillycat]

76. You are ridiculous.

Your non sequitors are not worth responding to. Silly rabbit.

[LSK]

62. well if you are referring to the Red Areas.....

Obama has been winning most of the Red States such as Georgia, S Carolina, Idaho, Nebraska, Kansas.....

And

Obama doesn't have a 15 year history like Hillary does of Rush Limbaugh brainwashing right wingers into thinking all things Clinton are evil.

[Phillycat]

63. We are talking about the GE, not the primaries.

You think Georgia's going blue in the GE? Never happen.

[LSK]

75. Max Cleland

They have been blue in the recent past.

[ClassWarrior]

52. I have. And why not?

Explain why you think that's not possible or not even likely.

NGU.

[ClassWarrior]

46. Some states matter more than others??

NGU.

[Phillycat]

51. Um. Yes.

?

[ClassWarrior]

54. Then Clinton should concede right now.

Why postpone the inevitable if the rest don't matter?

NGU.

[Phillycat]

64. Wha?

[thoughtcrime1984]

91. Penn is the only giant state left in primaries

that's Pennsylvania, not Mark. Obama will only pad his lead from here on out.

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

25. And he's winning the primary. So what's your point?

Speaking of being "OWED" the presidency, take a look at Hillary about 3 months ago.

[Phillycat]

34. She has never let up - she has fought where her resources and time can be put to best use.

[anonymous171]

37. Then red states will stay red states and McCain can focus on blue states.

McCain would whoop her ass easily.

[Phillycat]

40. Mmm-hmmm.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4906406&mesg_id=4906406

[CitizenRob]

49. Say it loud. Say it proud. We can't just GIVE UP on some states.

every single state is worth winning.

[Phillycat]

53. That sounds very nice.

The day Utah goes Dem, I will give you a million dollars.

[ClassWarrior]

56. That's been Clinton's justification for staying in the race...

...even though she's losing on every measure.

NGU.

[Phillycat]

65. Untrue.

We'll see what happens in PA.

[anonymous171]

68. I forgot. All the primaries until PA don't count.

[CitizenRob]

86. If we don't fight for Utah...

We'll never have Utah. EVER. I'd rather candidates made attempts to gain Utah in the hope of maybe gaining some more congressional seats, or maybe someday 20 years down the line, winning the state in the GE.

[quiet.american]

29. Utter horse hockey. nt

[Cha]

38. The problem with you is you

have no powers of observation.

[LSK]

41. reality tells a different story

Hillary was the "chosen one" for most of 2007 and right on up until Iowa (when people actually started to decide for themselves).

Hillary assumed it would be wrapped up by Super Tuesday and when it was not, her campaign was not ready to carry on.

Hillary carrying on like this in spite of her http://www.slate.com/features/delegatecounter">Math Problem shows that she thinks she is OWED the Presidency.

What evidence do you have that Obama is surrounded by "yes men" who are stroking his ego?

[CitizenRob]

47. His hype is that he is here to bring change and also hope for a better future.

Those are two things I'm happy to have a candidate buy into. Maybe you should ask yourself why you wouldn't want a candidate to buy into that hype.

[Phillycat]

58. I prefer a candidate who has an actual, implementable plan for bringing about change.

Someone who has the connections and the respect in national politics to get things done. Someone who understands policy. See: Jimmy Carter, for a good example of the other.

[anonymous171]

59. Jimmy Carter was the reason Reagan was elected.

Debbie Downer politics tend to leave you...well down.

[Phillycat]

71. Uh, exactly. That was my point. So, thanks, I guess?

You really don't read for comprehension, do you?

[CitizenRob]

89. Obama is the personality equivalent of Reagan.

It'd be nice for the Dems to have that sort of charisma on their side for once.

[verges]

116. What connections did Governor Clinton have before he

became president? Governor Reagan?

[NC_Nurse]

67. I believe the arrogance and entitlement problems have been Clinton's.

[nonconformist]

69. K & R. I remember the last guy surrounded by yes men, running on a platform of unity

Ready to learn on the job. That didn't work out too well.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

72. I don't think Hillary thought she'd have to fight like this.

She was the media-anointed frontrunner for a year and possessed what were supposed to be insurmountable advantages -- name recognition, Bill Clinton, a massive war chest and a large political network.

Hillary was expecting everything to end by Super Tuesday, which essentially became a draw. Obama's superior ground game, at least at that point, allowed him to rack up 12 victories in a row afterwards (including Vermont).

What I've primarily observed about Hillary's campaign tactics is the chameleonic nature of them -- frontrunner, underdog, media victim, populist, attacker -- she tried them all on until it finally clicked in yesterday's primaries.

She is apparently getting her message across now, but that message seems to be as fluid as circumstances warrant -- remember her saying she "found her voice" after New Hampshire? What happened to the "35 years of experience" meme? Surely, those decades of experience must have gelled into some sort of coherent narrative rather than this greatest-hits package she's trying to fashion together.

[alcibiades_mystery]

74. Dr. William Frist, everybody! She'll be here all week!

Round of applause, c'mon people! The ten o'clock show is always different than the 8 o'clock!

Featuring the janesez brand of improvisational diagnostic comedy!

One more hand for our performer!

[Phillycat]

83. Bless your heart.

[jmg257]

77. Seems a bit confused. I would say Hill though it a gimmee, And Obama did better then he thought.

She predicted an early wrap up, while he started as a real underdog and rode his increasing popularity to being #1.

She has not given up, the "kitchen sink" approach shows there is no doubt about that. We'll see if he can relight the magic now, or will have to wait till 2012.

[Raine]

78. and Hillary believes in her won inevitability

people that run for office all have high opinions of themselves. If they didn't they wouldn't be the type that could/would run in the first place.

[Bluerthanblue]

79. duh- that is called being GENUINE- versus putting on a

different persona to suit the situation.

Accent and all-
Little Mexican Bandoleer included at no extra charge-


Hillary will do ANYTHING to win. What kind of a character trait is that?

[Phillycat]

84. Spin, Obamite, spin!

:rofl:

Edited because I thought the title might be misconstrued as something it wasn't.

[goletian]

81. sorry to break this to you but... the hype is real.

[JackBeck]

92. 2012???

:rofl:

That's only just a minor, misguided "observation" from the OP.

I can go on, but I'll wait to see if there's a response.

But until then, I'll try to reign in my laughter at the OP's suggestion that Obama should run in 2012.

[JackBeck]

98. Kick.

Still wondering why the OP wanted Obama to run in 2012.

Does she think that McGrumpy will win the Presidency or does she want Obama to run against a seated Democrat?

[JackBeck]

102. Not just the OP, but her supporters.

Let's open it up to whole crew.

Why do janesez, maddy, and lost think that Mr. Obama should run in 2012?

Since y'all got her back...

[jeffrey_X]

95. I bet you could say that about every successful person in this world.

eom

[Beausoir]

96. I am glad you posted this again. What's the old saying about believing your own press?

[Occam Bandage]

109. How ironic.

[DemGa]

99. I have thought this about BO as well

How else would a two-year Senator run for President? BO is obviously a narcissist who buys his own hype.

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

100. Yeah, I'm sure that's exactly how it went.

Just wow.

It would have been a brilliant post if you had included the sarcasm tag. Without it, it's just, well, sad.

[JackBeck]

101. Lots of random assumptions, right?

An almost complete work of fiction.

The only truth being Obama's speech at the convention.

Other than that, everything else was made up.

Gotta love the "passionate" plea for Obama running in 2012.

[Blondiegrrl]

103. I disagree.

Hillary has known all along that she will have to fight tooth and nail for it. She announced her intention to do it and she has, and I'm proud of her.

Last December she was gloating that the primary would be all wrapped up on Super Tuesday. She was totally unprepared for Obama's Iowa win, and she's been reeling ever since. It's clear she never expected to actually have to campaign to win the nomination; she was planning on grabbing it solely by name recognition.

[JackBeck]

104. Who are these "uninformed idealists" that you quote?

Doubt you got names.

Obviously, these are quotes you are making up.

[Occam Bandage]

105. Since when is it "arrogance" to think you can run for President

without the blessing of the Party Elders? It seems that a majority of people agree with his decision to run.

[JackBeck]

107. It's only arrogant when

it's not the one you want to run and hope to win.

[Occam Bandage]

108. "It is arrogance to think you can stand in the path of the Anointed One, foolish Obama supporters!"

[JackBeck]

111. Who do you support?

[JackBeck]

106. "count on your vote in 2012"

I hope you realize some day how this is a politically immature statement.

[kwenu]

110. If the problem with Obama is that he believes his own hype, I'm glad that Hillary knows

her sh#t makes no sense.

[Spider Jerusalem]

113. I think it's Hillary who feels she's owed the Presidency.

She didn't even think she'd have to work for it. It was supposed to be over by Super Tuesday. The idea that Hillary 'has known all along that she'd have to fight tooth and nail' just has ZERO basis in reality, I'm afraid; it is not borne out by the events that have transpired. She was expecting a coronation, not a fight. Her campaign had NO organisation in place post-Super Tuesday. Her support seems to largely come from Clinton personality cultists who are motivated as much by fond nostalgia for the first Clinton presidency as they are by Candidate Hillary herself. Obama's done more than 'give one good speech'; he's built a national organisation, based on motivated, grass-roots support, that's turned a formerly 'inevitable' candidate who enjoyed TREMENDOUS and at one time seemingly insurmountable advantages in fundraising and name recognition into a longshot for the nomination.

Apropos snippet from the recent Rolling Stone article on the Obama campaign:

...the Obama campaign has succeeded not by attracting starry-eyed followers who place their faith in hope but by motivating committed activists who are answering a call to national service. They're pouring their lifeblood into this campaign, not because they are in thrall to a cult of personality but because they're invested in the idea that politics matter, and that their participation can turn the current political system on its ear.

In reality, it already has. "We're seeing the last time a top-down campaign has a chance to win it," says (Joe) Trippi (aside: manager of Dean's and John Edwards' campaigns, for those who don't know). "There won't be another campaign that makes the same mistake the Clintons made of being dependent on big donors and insiders. It's not going to work ever again."

[Armstead]

114. Um, Hillary started buying her own hype long ago

[Eurobabe]

115. If your idea of what Hillary is doing is good campaining

You need to put the crack pipe down and get your butt into rehab. Hillary is fawning praise all over McBushler, and dissing a fellow Democrat because if she doens't get in, no Democrat should.

Disgusting.

[barack the house]

117. Cali recount gives Obama more deletates and wipes out HRC gains...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22947679/

[lmbradford]

118. so far so has a majority of the dem voters...

I just don't think its hype. I really do like him, his ideas, and his policies. So.....what is your point?

[casus belli]

120. Just what I was looking for. The answer to "What's Obama's problem"?

Thanks so much for filling in the blanks on these compelling issues.

[mmonk]

121. People willing to take the party down if they don't win

are the people buying their own hype (read Clinton and DLC).