What do you make of this Obama criticism?

[msallied]

That he often refused to cast votes in the Senate? A lot of people think he's incapable of making tough decisions simply because he HASN'T cast important votes. Why do you think he hasn't?

[maddiejoan]

1. political maneuvering

[zabet]

10. Yep, that's it.

Political maneuvering
and posturing.

[The_Casual_Observer]

2. Those are "unity" no votes. It's the new politics.

[moobu2]

3. He didn’t want to have a record

For his opponents to define him with.

[TwilightGardener]

4. I don't know much about the Illinois Senate, but there is a lot of

strategery voting going on in the US Senate--I imagine it's the same way. If you oppose a key part of a bill, but not the whole thing, do you go on record as being FOR it, against it, or abstain? I'll bet that's where a lot of Present votes come from.

[moobu2]

6. A “present” vote is nearly the same thing as voting yeah

He's slicker than ****

[TwilightGardener]

7. Maybe it just shows less-enthusiastic support for a measure, then. If his

"present" votes were much higher than average for all the state senators at the time, I'd have more to go on.

[FrenchieCat]

5. Could you provide more than what's coming out of your mouth.....

like a link and some evidence.

Thanks.

[msallied]

8. Don't you watch the debates?

In the Illinois State Legislature, he made 130 "present" votes rather than "yes" or "no." Hillary and Edwards called him on this before. A lot of people have used this to indicate that he is weak.

http://firststatepolitics.wordpress.com/2008/01/21/i-didnt-know-this-obama-doesnt-like-to-vote/

[tabatha]

12. out of 4,000

that was said in the debates, too.

[msallied]

16. On the macro level it doesn't look bad

but on the micro, it should at least give one pause.

I'm for Obama all the way, and I do not pretend to understand the intricacies of voting in a State or US Senate, however it is my hope that he has a quick and easy rebuttal for this in order to make sure that people can't use it as yet another talking point against him.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

13. "A lot of people" are disingenuous asswipes too.

Present votes in the IL lege are a longstanding strategy that many lawmakers in that body use to defeat or express opposition to legally problematic bills. I think it's a pretty good one and I wish more legislatures offered the option.

Let me give you a hypothetical (albeit extreme) illustration:

"Have you stopped drowning puppies yet?"

Yes

No

Present



How would you vote?

[EmilyAnne]

23. I've posted this same response many times, but it doesn't seem to change anyone's mind. Oh well.

[Seeker30]

9. There's a website at http://www.google.com

Seems to work pretty well.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2007/02/the_everpresent_obama.html


We aren't talking about a "present" vote on whether to name a state office building after a deceased state official, but rather about votes that reflect an officeholder's core values.

For example, in 1997, Obama voted "present" on two bills (HB 382 and SB 230) that would have prohibited a procedure often referred to as partial birth abortion. He also voted "present" on SB 71, which lowered the first offense of carrying a concealed weapon from a felony to a misdemeanor and raised the penalty of subsequent offenses.

In 1999, Obama voted "present" on SB 759, a bill that required mandatory adult prosecution for firing a gun on or near school grounds. The bill passed the state Senate 52-1. Also in 1999, Obama voted "present" on HB 854 that protected the privacy of sex-abuse victims by allowing petitions to have the trial records sealed. He was the only member to not support the bill.

In 2001, Obama voted "present" on two parental notification abortion bills (HB 1900 and SB 562), and he voted "present" on a series of bills (SB 1093, 1094, 1095) that sought to protect a child if it survived a failed abortion. In his book, the Audacity of Hope, on page 132, Obama explained his problems with the "born alive" bills, specifically arguing that they would overturn Roe v. Wade. But he failed to mention that he only felt strongly enough to vote "present" on the bills instead of "no."

And finally in 2001, Obama voted "present" on SB 609, a bill prohibiting strip clubs and other adult establishments from being within 1,000 feet of schools, churches, and daycares.

[anigbrowl]

21. indeed it does

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/16/opinion/16mikva.html?th&emc=th
***
I recall voting “present” on many bills when I was in the Illinois Legislature. In the 1960s, for instance, I voted “present” on the annual highway appropriations bill. Like many of my fellow senators, I thought some of the money being allocated should have gone to public transportation. Still, I didn’t want to vote no, because I did not want to stand against the basic principle of maintaining our public roads. So I voted “present.”

It never occurred to me or to any of my critics that I was ducking responsibility for a making a decision. Mr. Obama was an outspoken member of the Illinois Senate, and not someone known for dodging questions, whether they were on ethics, police responsibility, women’s choice or any other hot-button issue.

Even if Senator Clinton does not remember the constitutional majority requirement in Illinois, one of her advisers might have explained it to her. When I was White House counsel, President Clinton frequently reminded me that he had taught constitutional law before he ran for public office. I would hope that he would assume that another constitutional scholar — Barack Obama — would be aware of his voting responsibilities as a state legislator.
~
Abner J. Mikva has been an Illinois state legislator, a United States congressman, a federal judge and, from 1994 to 1995, White House counsel. He now directs the Mandel Legal Aid Clinic at the University of Chicago Law School. Mr. Mikva serves as an informal adviser to Barack Obama's presidential campaign.

[Seeker30]

25. Mr. Mikva serves as an informal adviser to Barack Obama's presidential campaign.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[DianeG5385]

11. To keep his options open

He's a smart guy with not much of a documented record, but an amazing prescience when it comes to being on the right side of hot button issues. He can ACT as if he would have voted against the Iraq war because he didn't have to put his reputation on the line at the tine. Actually very cowardly.

[spag68]

14. skipping votes

It certainly is not a new thing, however for the candidate who is running on a "new way to do things" it is disturbing. Not big disturbing, but something to think about. It is my hope that some day the things they vote on will be easier to understand and mandatory to vote on. He has missed a few important votes, but that hardly disqualifies him from running.

[johnnydrama]

15. well

Hillary skipped the telecom immunity bill.

Which is more important to 300 million Americans?

[msallied]

17. I would agree

[Growler]

19. Agreed

[casus belli]

18. As an example...

an important piece of legislation crosses your desk. In it, is an increase in Education funds, after school programs, and a salary raise for teachers. By the time it has made it's way to your desk, it has picked up some additional details which you don't like - maybe a school lunch program reduction or a reduction in arts and extracurricular programs. You certainly don't want to go on the record as voting AGAINST this Bill, since it will most certainly be used by an unscrupulous political adversary to suggest you voted against giving the kids funds for school. How do you vote? I'm not saying this is the case all the time, but present can often be seen as a no-vote in protest of specific parts of a piece of legislation. If you are certain it won't have the votes to pass, a present vote is as good as a no vote without the political consequence.

[msallied]

22. A very helpful explanation

It is my hope that he can translate this into a useful rebuttal should it come up in the general election.

[housewolf]

20. It's an issue related to his being in the IL state senate

not the US Senate.

Apparantly it was something of a procedural vote telling the other legislators that you don't support the bill as it stands but could support it if some changes were made. It's a way of getting bills modified. Within the IL State Senate it seems to be an accepted practice and not an issue.

[FrenchieCat]

24. Were you able to get your answer now?

I think I saw about 3 links explaining to you that this is a common procedural maneuver in the State Illinois that has its own history. 130 Present out of 4,000 votes cast seem quite reasonable and more importantly, acceptable.

Do you have any other questions on this?