Screwed from Day One: We didn't pick the right fronrunners.

[rucky]

All of these distortions and petty smears coming from both camps is a sign of weaknesses in both of our candidates. If you step back and look at our original field, all of this talk about judgement and experience is a joke. They wouldn't be so bold about their own qualifications if they were still sharing the stage with Biden, Dodd, Richardson or Kucinich. They were the least experienced and have the thinnest record of the entire field. So to see them go back and forth about who has the most policy experience is a bit laughable. Neither one of them can beat McCain on that point, so why even put it under the spotlight?

So the only other ammo they think they have left is in all of these other he-said, she-said racist/sexist spats that are really just a distraction from their collective lack substance. And if they do have policy ideas that inspire, they should stay on message with that. Ideas can trump experience.

Yes, we picked them. We picked them - not because of their experience, but because of their celebrity. In the early stages of the campaign, it looked like McCain was dead in the water, so it really didn't matter to us if we picked the most qualified candidate. Now it does more than ever - and both of our candidates are clamoring to puff up their resumes to compete with McCain's. Why? It rings hollow.

They should both just stick to what got them into frontrunner status in the first place, and keep being likeable and passionate about doing some good for the country. Go positive and let the voters decide. Keep giving voters a reason to show up in November.

[Horse with no Name]

1. We didn't pick them. MSM FROM THE START picked them

and gave them the media coverage. The most electable weren't chosen...just the most polarizing.

[navarth]

BINGO. n/t

[navarth]

4. mod please delete, hit the submit button too many times

[navarth]

5. mod please delete, hit the submit button too many times

[rucky]

6. True dat.

I didn't mind so much at the time, because i was pretty confident H or O would kick the shit out of the so-called GOP frontrunners at the time. I couldn't wait to go up against Rudy.

One thing I'll give the GOP credit for, they chose their strongest candidates in McCain and Huck. And the media didn't steer their voters in that direction.

[slackmaster]

7. I agree with Horse with no Name on this one

"We" did what we were told to do by the MSM.

It's really a shame.

[redqueen]

13. Yup. If only so many weren't so devoted to listening to those clowns.

*sigh*

[Dr.Phool]

20. Give that horse a cigar!

People like Edwards spent millions of dollars, and years of preparation, and were completely ignored.

[superkia]

46. The ones that were speaking about the real issues we face, ...

were blacked out and ridiculed. They even cut Kucinich out of one of the debate photos...afraid of someone that spoke the truth much? It happens all of the time because Americans fall for it, anytime someone brings up something that most Americans don't know about, they are called a crazy conspiracy theorist by th media and the sheeple jump in their herd and repeat and believe the media of all people? If the media were around and calling the earth flat, most Americans would be calling anyone who believed otherwise crazy.


As long as people listen to what the controlled, agenda driven media tells them, without doing their own research...we will continue to let them pick our candidates. Maybe if we have an election again in 4 years, we will get behind the candidate that the media is against, instead of parroting the media and destroying that candidates chances. Everyone is electable as long as we all do our research and we get out and vote. If we still have the constitution in 4 years, we may want to support someone that is out defending it instead of the ones that wont even mention it.

[rurallib]

2. Well I think the media's ignoring everybody else helped

Since the Dems have so many first time primary voters, many of these folks tend to be more swayed by media than those more steeped in politics.
I have a friend who does polling and the there was a direct correlation between how involved a person was and their support for a candidate. Specifically, less involved more likely Hillary, more involved more likely Edwards.
Thom Hartmann has made the point that the Republicans have picked our candidates since 1980. One of the methods to do this is skewing the media.

[BlueManDude]

3. When's the last time a Democrat won a presidential election that was about national security?

This race is IMO not even winnable and HRC and BO tearing each other apart will have little to do with the final outcome.

[rucky]

8. Biden could've won on that issue. n/t

[BlueManDude]

10. Kerry had credentials - yet lost.

I don't want to get into talking about the questions in Ohio.

[rucky]

38. Kerry didn't USE his credentials.

Everybody's trying to cover their own weaknesses instead of playing to their strengths.

[BlueManDude]

40. what needs to be done is to ATTACK the other guy's supposed strength

that's play #1 in the rove playbook. take the other guy's strength and weaken him there. everything else will follow.

that's what the swiftboat was about. take kerry's strength as a veteran and war hero and cast doubt upon it.

the same needs to be done to mccain.

[lumpy]

47. Biden should have had it. Although I wouldn't wish the job on

anyone, I felt, and still do that Biden's qualifications beat both the 'front runners'. Trust the American people to put their faith in Rha Rha cheap rhetoric. It will take the second coming to straighten out the mess that is Dubya's legacy.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

19. I agree, and that's why we need to make it about the economy. nt

[rucky]

29. That's why the Canadagate thing hurts us so badly.

us = dems. it weakens our resolve on our strongest issue.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

34. For real.

I personally think both of them winked and nodded to the Canadians about NAFTA. Which was dumb, dumb, dumb. Makes the Dems look like lily-livered hypocrites while McCain looks decisive, albeit wrong.

[BlueManDude]

37. That's not possible. This election is about protecting the country from terrorism.

Trying to change the subject won't work.

[Carolina]

43. yes, but you can't divorce the economy from the war

the trillions spent there mean there is little left for any domestic issues.

[JimGinPA]

9. I Chose To Support Obama

I would have been okay with either Biden or Dowd, but I chose Obama and I will support him through his nomination and in the general election.

[rucky]

12. I'm supporting Obama.

I was trying to stay neutral in my OP, but Obama still has a winning strategy, if the one-two punch of Hillary and the MSM doesn't drag him down into the mud.

[NeedleCast]

11. Yes we did

No question to me that we picked the right front runners. The far left can talk all it wants about how Kucinich should have been a front runner despite the fact that he would have been slaughtered in the GE, not going to make it any more true.

[rucky]

14. I was gunning for Biden.

And still think he would have been the strongest candidate by a mile.

[Horse with no Name]

23. "I" don't like Biden

however...out of all of the candidates...if experience was the deciding factor, he would have won hands down.

[NeedleCast]

26. I like Biden too

Don't get me wrong but the bottom line is that he didn't have much money and that's the way you generate intrest...by making joe six-pack aware that you're running. I'd bet ya dollars to doughnuts that 9 out of 10 Americans couldn't tell you who Biden or Gravel were. The only reason a lot of people have heard of Kuch is because he's the guy with the smokin' hot wife. Its up to the candidate to generate the public intrest in their campaign and up to the people to show the media that they're interested in hearing about candidate X. The media plays to what the public wants to hear. Otherwise their ratings tank and they die. People here always ask "why does the media talk about Paris Hilton and ignore (insert less vapid story here)"...it's a simple formula...lot of people are interested in celebrity lifestyle. Politics...not so much. Don't blame the media for giving the people what they wanted.

If, for example, we had sent Kuch to the GE the Republicans would have had to play one ad, and one ad only to sweep 50 states...Kucinich wants to take your guns. Polls taken on DU show that almost 50% of DU'ers are gun OWNERS. Other polls taken on DU show that almost 75% of DU'ers support the 2nd amendment as it stands. The repbulicans would just play to the fact that after the Virginia St. shootings that Kuch said he wanted to introduce a bill to ban all handguns and the GE would be over.

[Radical Activist]

15. I picked Obama because he's the best candidate.

Considering all the Senators who voted for the war in Iraq I don't think more time in Washington necessarily makes someone a better President.

[Carolina]

44. exactly, all that experience yet Biden, Dodd, HRC, Edwards

all voted for IWR. I couldn't bring myself to support any of them which is why I thought we were doomed from the outset. See my similar post for further explanation downthread.

[Buzz Clik]

16. I chose Obama as my candidate in 2004. I am thrilled.

[SammyWinstonJack]

17. I didn't pick them. Not many cared when the corprat media ran off Kucinich and Edwards either.

By virtually ignoring them.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

24. I cared, because I saw a replay of 2004

:cry:

[SammyWinstonJack]

27. Yes, here we go again.

x(

[Egnever]

18. I agree with your premise sort of

There is no question we had more experienced candidates running. I personally thought Joe was a much better candidate than his campaign showed.

That aside I did pick Obama, and I did it in spite of his inexperience in foreign affairs. No president is an Island making decisions in isolation. They are advised and given (hopefully) the information needed to make their decision. Obama has shown pretty solid judgment when it comes to Iraq. I don't believe we are on the edge of the Apocalypse andI think Obama has a good enough head on his shoulders to avoid us getting close to one.

The reason I picked him though is open government. His commitment to ethics and open government has been obvious throughout his career. I believe that a large portion of our problems would go away of we were more able to hold our government accountable for what they do. If we shed more light on the subject there will be far fewer rats with places to hide their nefarious deeds. It will enable us to accomplish many things from health care to getting our budget under control. He has a great plan for exposing our government to the people and if he gets in office and gets it done it will change our government forever.

Thats why I picked him and it has nothing to do with the MSM. The MSM hasnt even mentioned it.

[rucky]

21. Obama and Hillary both have their strong points

that could make them viable against McCain and each other. They're not USING them. They both need to be like John Edwards right now, and stay on message with their biggest strengths instead of trying to guard against their perceived weaknesses.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

22. I feel the same way, rucky

The way that the Clinton and Obama supporters are sniping at each other in such nasty ways is a clear indication that they have nothing SUBSTANTIVE to argue about.

They were the only two candidates that the MSM gave decent coverage to, starting in 2006. The rest were systematically ignored, the so-called "minor" candidates from the very beginning and Edwards as soon as he started to talk about the economy and came in second in Iowa. (When I listened to allegedly "objective" NPR give the New Hampshire results without mentioning Edwards at all, while mentioning the standings of all the Republicanite candidates,I knew the fix was in.)

The MSM chose the Democratic candidates for us by giving them full-throttle coverage, so much so that your average person-in-the-street didn't even KNOW that there were other candidates.

Persons in the street are one thing, but even here at DU, after all these years, we still had people talking that claptrap about "electability" and telling us that we had to vote for Clinton because it was time for a woman in the White House or for Obama because it was time for an African-American in the White House. Or that the Reagan Democrats would never vote for a woman or would never vote for a black man.

The MSM have us right where they want us. Most Dems were too lazy to look beyond the MSM, and they fell for the plot.

Now the Clinton supporters are accusing the Obama supporters of sexism and the Obama supporters are accusing the Clinton supporters of racism.

Too few people here or in the MSM are asking what the country really needs.

It needs FDR 2.0. It needs shaking up and a massive undoing of all the damage that the Reaganites began in 1981.

Sorry, folks, but neither of these candidates is even TALKING about what needs to be done other than a few cosmetic patches.

[Horse with no Name]

25. Deserves it's own post because this is spot on. n/t

[rucky]

30. I'm going with the Horse on this one.

Right after Edwards dropped out, I said to myself: The first candidate to adopt his message will win. Why doesn't anybody take my advice?

[SammyWinstonJack]

32. !

:applause: :thumbsup:

[lumpy]

48. Truly. Elections will always be a luck of the draw until the voters

take time out of their lives to educate themselves and research who is best qualified to hold the difficult job of trying to lead this country. No matter what, we are in for a very rocky ride for many years to come thanks to the most sorry leadership this country has ever experienced.

[Red Zelda]

28. WRONG!

These candidates are left because they got the goddamn votes. Geez. Wake up folks. How many primaries did Biden win? Or Kucinich? None. Perhaps we should just scrap the primary system and go back to the smoke-filled room of the past and have the party bigshots just pick the candidate. It would be better than the endless whining about people who got no frigging votes.

Edwards? I saw him on TV more than anyone. He's out because he couldn't get the votes.
I loved Dean in 2004, but he couldn't win a frigging primary.

Makes me think of 1988 and all the whining about how we ended up with Dukakis. We got Dukakis because he won the frigging primaries.

[Frustratedlady]

31. American Idol all the way.

When will they learn to let the candidates duke it out? This manipulation must end. We are partly to blame by contributing to the "show" by accepting what the media prints/shows.

I want a good, old-fashioned election where everyone used a No. 2 lead pencil and filled in the candidate of choice.

Oh, well. Our economy has gone to hell....the election process isn't far behind.

[rucky]

36. Republican voters didn't pick their media-annoited

Rudy & Mitt.

They went with their strongest candidates: McCain and Huck.

[underpants]

33. Edwards would have this whole thing OVER right now

the GE too

[rucky]

35. Right after Edwards dropped out...

I said to myself that the first candidate to adopt his message wins. Why don't they ever listen when I say things to myself?

[underpants]

39. Hillary seems to think it is 2004

she is going full steam ahead with the doom and gloom elect me or your children die campaign. Her advisors clearly need to get out more often and realize that that is not going to sell anymore-all the DC insiders have convinced themselves of how brilliant Rove is and like many other proofessions are simply copycatting.

[rucky]

41. kick

[Carolina]

42. you are so right

I was not interested in the presidential campaign at the outset because it appeared that HRC was already chosen.

I had a problem with all those so-called experienced folks -- HRC, Edwards, Biden and Dodd -- who voted for IWR.

I liked Kucinich, Obama, Richardson, and yes, Gravel for his war position, but didn't think any of them would go far once the starting gate was opened.

When Obama surged ahead, to my surprise, I was still hesitant but as he pressed on and as I saw the level of support -- yes, the crowds, the enthusiasm, the victories -- I jumped on board.

Now, I fear, as I feared at the beginning, that Dems will snatch defeat from victory.

[Laelth]

45. Why spotlight experience?

That is a very good question, indeed. The answer is not so good, because the effect of focusing on experience is to strengthen McCain.

And that is precisely what one of our candidates is doing. Whether her intent is to ensure McCain's election is not yet clear.

-Laelth

[Jade Fox]

49. Yep.

This election is one of the saddest I've seen. We had the opportunity to make some real change, but for whatever the reasons, we are left with two weak candidates who must please the GOP to no end: the GOP knows just how racist and sexist their base is.

The ugly DU battles by "supporters" of Clinton or Obama are just icing on the cake, I guess.