Clinton: "MI doesn't count for anything" and why she was right to say it.

[mckeown1128]

NHPR's Laura Knoy: "So, if you value the DNC calendar, why not just pull out of Michigan? Why not just say, Hey Michigan, I'm off the ballot?"

Hillary Clinton: "Well, you know, It's clear, this election they're having is not going to count for anything"

http://www.nhpr.org/node/13858

We can squabble back and forth over names on the ballot's or who ran what national ad that made them technically be campaigning in FL or MI...but the point remains...

If FL and MI held new primaries...they wouldn't be do overs...

Because, the voters were told BEFORE the primaries in both FL and MI that they were NOT voting for delegates. AND... because we don't know what the results would have been had the voters been informed that their delegates were going to be seated, the FL and MI primaries are suspect. No amount of speculation (IE 1.7 million voted, Obama ran ads, blah, blah etc) can substitute for an ACTUAL FAIR election in both MI and FL. With FULLY informed voters.

The voters HAVE to know what they are voting for. Imagine for a minute that the republicans in...say...California created a Proposition for Californians to vote on. Suppose that this Proposition was for a symbolic banning of GLBT community. Suppose it passes and then the California state government decides to enforce it. Would it be disenfranchisement of the voters if someone challenged California for enforcing it? NO, because the voters have to be ENFRANCHISED to begin with. The voters were not told that it would be enforced....so it shouldn't be enforced. Get it? Good!


I personally believe that both FL and MI should be allowed to hold their FIRST REAL primaries(or caucuses..or hybrids) if they want. They have not held delegate nominating primaries... those shams that they tried to run before (as Clinton said) didn't count for anything. In my mind they have yet to hold OFFICIAL primaries... I don't see any problem with them holding primaries like all the other states. They should....like all the other states... pay for their delegate nominating primaries all by them selves.

Ohh..and I am sick of that crap about how it is all the republican's fault. NO, the State Democratic parties in MI and FL pushed for this. If anyone in those states have a problem with it... I suggest you take it out in the poll booth when those State Dem leaders go up for reelection.

[Wickerman]

1. If you have another primary

or, by your thesis, their "first" primaries, are you then not rewarding the states that refused to play by the rules in the first place? Instead of going when they were supposed to they tried to increase their impact by going when they thought they would have the most impact. That didn't work out on either level; now they get a second chance to make a very big splash?

This is a very nasty predicament and it doesn't seem fair to the states that played fair that FLA and MI would then get to decide the contest. And, of course, it isn't fair to the ordinary voters that their leadership screwed them over. No easy answers here.



Just some thoughts.

[MadBadger]

3. I see what you are saying, but I guess making them pay for it again is some sort of punishment.

[mckeown1128]

5. Notice how the Hillary supporters are ignoring this? N/T

[bellasgrams]

2. When the voters chose their candidates, they did know who they

were voting for. They did not know 'IF' their votes would be counted or not. But, they did vote for the candidate they wanted.

[mckeown1128]

4. One problem with your argument...

It only holds up if you can prove for a FACT... that no one stayed home or left that section blank because they were told their delegates wouldn't be seated. It is because we don't know what the EXACT "number for number" results would have been if people where aware before hand that the delegates WERE going to be seated. You can't assume in a democracy. That is why we have votes. Voters have to be informed of what the vote is for(whether it be a beauty contest or for delegates) before they pull the lever.

[mckeown1128]

6. Hmm...funny how the Clinton supporters like to ignore this.

It doesn't fit in to their twisted logic...that somehow Hillary is being sincere about wanting to seat MI and FL. Hello... Clinton supporters... I thought you guys cared about the "unofficial" primaries in MI and FL. How do you explain Clinton's comments away???