Mainstream Democrats to turn on Dean?

[bigwavebobby]

I'm very worried to think that the party power elite is going to pull all of the stops to undermine Dean and replace him with someone who does not reflect the true wishes of the voters.

We have to do everything we can to say NO to those that want to stop us! I'm afraid that the future of the country is at stake if Dean gets thrown under the bus. If the era of greed, murder, and war-mongering continues, I'm fearful that we will see terror attacks that make 9-11 look like a day at Disneyland!

We need a president that will stand up and APOLOGOZE for the Hegemony of W! Dean is just the man for the job.

There -- I got it off of my chest.

[Renew Deal]

1. Maybe this is a riddle

If the voters vote for someone, do they represent the true wishes? Unless you mean shenanigans at the convention.

I agree that we need a man to do the things you describe. Dean is not that person. Dean will do nothing that will make the terrorists back off. The only thing possible is to abandon Israel and Dean isn't doing that.

[last1standing]

2. Is any candidate talking about abandoning Isreal?

I haven't noticed any of them saying that, but please tell me who would.

[Scott Lee]

5. not any candidate who wants to stay in the race.

Although I personally (and staunchly) reject the excesses of the Likkudist terrorists, I have to acknowledge that advocating abandoning Israel is political suicide in the US. Just a fact.

[Renew Deal]

7. None of them said that.

That's what I was getting at.

[last1standing]

15. Then why not mention Clark?

You wanted to point out Dean so badly it seems that you forgot eight others who will not abandon Isreal. In other words, I reject the idea that you were trying to say that NONE of the candidates were for it as you only talk about Dean.

[Renew Deal]

19. Sensitive

aren't we? You started a thread about Dean. I kept it in that context.

[last1standing]

22. If Dean had posted that you would have called him a liar.

Like in all your other posts. You hate to be called out on your deception, don't you?

And I'm not sensitive, just sick of all the bullshit spin some people are trying. I hope this is only temporary until the primaries are over.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mot78]

4. A DINO? Dean?

That's one of the most anti-Dean posts I've seen on DU.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

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[cryofan]

13. Dean seems more Right Wing than Centrist to me

Just look at what he said about the liberals and the left when he was the tightfisted governor of Vermont:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

"Throughout the 1990s, Dean’s cuts in state aid to education ($6 million), retirement funds for teachers and state employees ($7 million), health care ($4 million), welfare programs earmarked for the aged, blind and disabled ($2 million), Medicaid benefits ($1.2 million) and more, amounted to roughly $30 million. Dean claimed that the cuts were necessary because the state had no money and was burdened by a $60 million deficit.9
....
Most of the Democrats in the legislature rebelled against Dean over the budget cuts, and he ended up depending on Republican votes to pass most of his proposals. At the time, a local Vermont newspaper wrote, "The biggest items on Dean’s agenda for next year are likely to provoke more opposition from the Democrats than the Republicans. Nevertheless, Dean said he feels no particular pressure to deliver the goods to his party or to promote the Democratic agenda."15

In the mid-1990s, Dean even aligned himself with the likes of Republican Newt Gingrich on his stance on cutting Medicare. He opined at the time, "The way to balance the budget is for Congress to cut Social Security, move the retirement age to 70, cut defense, Medicare and veterans pensions, while the states cut everything else."16
....
The Rutland Herald described how one protestor, Henrietta Jordan of the Vermont Center for Independent Living, "said it would be much fairer to raise taxes on people with expensive homes and cars, children in private school and a housekeeper at home than to cut programs that helped the 66,000 Vermonters living with disabilities."17 Dean responded callously, brushing off the pleas of Vermont’s most vulnerable by saying, "This seems like sort of the last gasp of the left here."18"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


The rest of this article is here:
http://www.isreview.org/issues/32/dean.shtml


How can you call Dean a "Democrat" except in name, when he scoffs at the Left? When his own words show that he looks forwards to the demise of the Left?!

[billbuckhead]

14. Over 10% of Vermont voters voted for a more liberal candidate......

in Dean's last election. This guy is an extremely conservative Democrat for the northeast. He has successfully marketed himself as an extremely liberal candidate capturing the enthusiasms of the anti-war and pro-gay consituentcies. Dean's lasting legacy was arrogantly and egotistically jumping headlong into Roves trap to divide the Democratic party over the IWR.

[Brian_Expat]

36. I'll tell you what

capturing the enthusiasms of the anti-war and pro-gay consituentcies

Try running a Democrat without those two constituencies. See how far you get. Don't come back crying after Bush hands you your derriere on a tin tray.

[bigwavebobby]

6. Sigh....

The center? I guess you are willing to compromise your principals to win -- Not me! We need to repeal the tax cut and get out of the Middle East. NOW!

[Renew Deal]

9. You know how easy it was to tell NH voters that Dean will raise

their taxes. A voter brought it up with me. I said yes, Dean wants to take away your tax cut. That is true. It was that easy.

[Rose Siding]

11. I'll bet you didn't ask

if they were satisfied with the tax rate when Clinton was president. That's usually all it takes for me to swing a voter from the "He'll raise your taxes!" ruse.

Throw in health care and deals for education and *poof*, no more blind greed.

[Scott Lee]

8. Sorry, Richard Gere isn't running.

[last1standing]

10. So you're saying we need an establishment DINO

who has helped lead the rebups to controlling every venue of national government to work their magic again. The anybody but Dean supporters will make sure that bush* remains in the Oval Office for four more years.

You see, the rhetoric works both ways, and each is equally vapid and lacking in content.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Scott Lee]

20. A "non-establishment DINO" is a contradiction in terms

Calm down, breathe deep. You're getting ahead of yourself here.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mouse7]

Good Gawd!

Yeah, celebrate a guy who preferred Dumbya to all the 9 candidates in the field.

You're sure helping your argument with that.

[billbuckhead]

34. You celebrate a guy who used the Confederate flag as a marketing tool

I'm just saying Zell has a lot more of an excuse to be a DINO than the only 2004Dem from a state so liberal that it elects a socialist congressman in statewide elections. Your guy has no reason to be a DINO to get elected like southern Dems, Howard Brush Dean III chooses to be one, it must be his priveledged background.

[last1standing]

23. So you're admitting to not understanding my post.

And that's being polite. Flamebaiters like you have really brought down our board.

[lurk_no_more]

17. I think your right

dean torched that bridge early, only dean can repair it, I'm not saying dean was wrong, I'm saying it was too early to bite the hand and it appears now to be dean against the world.

dean will have to make nice, if he gets the nomination (which isn't a given just yet) he'll need 110% of the party behind him just in order to have a chance at beating bush, all the candidates will need this support, and even with 110% bush will still be hard to beat.

IMO dean can't beat bush, but without full party support, he won't stand a chance at a decent showing, the party has already labeled him as a no-win against bush, unless dean changes their perception, their not about to get fully behind a candidate they feel this way about, they will appear to help for appearance sake only, they just won't help as much as will be needed or in all the areas needed.

gore did the same thing, but only after he already was handed the nomination by being an incumbent, but by demanding to be "his own man" the party stood by and let bush and the court run over him while giving no more than lip service in his defense.

You don't crap in the house and expect to be thanked by the rest of the family for doing it.


” JAFO”

[arewethereyet]

21. I seem to recall that Dr Dean is favored by about 25%

which means 75% have an unfavorable view of him.

I'm not sure why you would see him getting pushed aside as not reflective of the voters.

Now if voters actually pony up a worthwild plurality then maybe your arguement holds.

Time will tell how accurate the polls are.

[madfloridian]

24. Could you provide link to the 75% who view him unfavorably?

Or at least correct your figures?

[arewethereyet]

30. fair enough

if the 25% number is accurate, then he has not won the favor of the remaining 75%. Either someone else has or noone has.

[last1standing]

25. Does that mean that 94% have an unfavorable view of Edwards?

No. It just means that he is the favorite of 6%. You know better than that.

[arewethereyet]

31. yes

at least for now

[bigwavebobby]

26. I was not clear...

With my orriginal post. James Carville and many Democratic pundits seem to be turning on Dr. Dean. I'm very worried about this trend.

I was not referring to voters.

[arewethereyet]

32. Thats fair and accurate

I think they have concerns, and apparantly legitimate concerns about Dr Dean's chances in a general election and the effect that would have 'down the ticket' as they say.

[TorchTheWitch]

37. that's been going on for ages

Except it was behind the scenes before. If other Dems are publically coming out now against him, tough. He practically begged for it since he's been shitting where he eats for quite some time. He's got no business attacking the Dem party if he can't take being hit back. He's an ass for doing it. It plays right into the GOP's hands. There's nothing they'd like better then the Dem party in termoil. He's taken the "eating our own" right out in front of the whole nation. Whoever gets the nomination whether or not it's him is going to have to fight that in the general election thanks to his big mouth. Screw him for giving that gift to the GOP.

[TorchTheWitch]

27. huh?

I'm very worried to think that the party power elite is going to pull all of the stops to undermine Dean and replace him with someone who does not reflect the true wishes of the voters.

The primaries are over already? Everyone's already voted? hmmmm... and I thought I had only taken a short nap today. :eyes:

[bigwavebobby]

29. Please

See post number 26. Dean may lose some big support very soon.

[MarkTwain]

33. In Answer To Your Question...

... are Mainstream Democrats and their power elite going to turn on and undermine Dean?

I can only hope and pray that they do so with an aggressiveness not seen since the days of Franklin Roosevelt.

I hope that they eviscerate his candidacy and that they do it soon.

I hope that they bring him down for the sake of the party, for the sake of the republic, and for the sake of up wards of three SCOTUS nominations in the next incumbency which will effect this country for the next fifty years.

Regrets for being so blunt but you asked the question and that's my heartfelt response that hopefully and relatively soon, the adults will step up and take charge of this party in order that we remove the Rove/Cheney Cabal along with their dumb, but evil, puppet.

It's going to take a "General" effort in order to do so in the current political climate. Responsible, mature, and non-ideological progressives are very aware of that; they don't tilt at windmills until the wind is from the right direction.

[OHdem10]

35. Hopefully they have seen--

seen the error of their ways. John Zogby gave some analysis the other night on CNN which should make them stop and think. His advise is the other candidates hould be targeting the undecided Denocratic voters . attacking Dean and running a stop Dean onslaught is totally ineffective says Zogby because Dean followeres are solidly behind him and the others cannot peel them off.

Some attacks are to be expected. The wussies ganging up and every hour on the the hr. TV is blarring Stop Dean. I am not Dean Supporter but this absolutely turned me of --they look so desperatie and weak. for a minute I did not want to vote for anyone.

Our Party does not have party structure. The other candidates do not have a real base the way Dean does. This makes the others jealous. Deanies hang in there, get a stiff upper lip.

In less than a month we will have a candidate and we must come to grips with the fact that all our candidates cannot win. There is going to be one and hopefully we are all large enough to get behind him while wiping our tears for our own candidates.

My biggest concern is > I do not want my candidate' Clark so beaten up by colleagues that Bush has to land one blow and the election is over. If the public tires of wtaching our candidates
fight, will they go to Bush . We have to convince the public that Bush needs to go. He has the power of Incumbency. We have to prove the need for change and our canddiates is the guy to replace him.