Jeremiah Wright says government created AIDS to infect and kill black people

[Herman Munster]

It was just mentioned on the O'Reilly Factor. They have video.

[loveangelc]

1. I saw it :(. Jeremiah Wright is out of his freaking mind!

I have to say, I am quite disappointed Obama would be inspired by such a lunatic.

[angie_love]

108. wow the guy is a freak!!!!!!

[gmudem]

2. Uh..you trust Bill O'Reilly?

Well at least we know who Clinton supporters have turned to now that they are boycotting Olbermann.

[boston bean]

29. no, they trust the video that is going to be played in perpetuity from now until the GE if he gets

the nomination, which is probably unlikely at this point.

[gmudem]

31. And we can counter with Hagee and this Parsley guy

And do you really think this will cost him the nomination? LOL, I would hope Democrats throughout the country aren't dumb enough to base their votes off of this.

And as long as we're talking about guilt by association, maybe we shouldn't forget about Bill Clinton and the President of Kazakhstan and a Canadian mine owner. Not to mention, Clinton's campaign manager is Mark Penn. 'Nuff said.

[jackson_dem]

36. Hagee/Palsely are not the same

They aren't McCain's mentor/pastor. They would hurt him, though--if we nominate Hillary. The idea that Hagee/Palsely makes Wright a was h makes no sense, even if you ignore the different relationships they have with the candidate. Wright is racist against whites, 75% of the population. What percentage is Catholic or Muslim? Many Catholics are also white and Wright will probably do more damage with white Catholics than hagee given the difference in relationships between the Hagee/McCain and Wright/Obama.

[gmudem]

45. So no white person will vote for Obama then?

I'll take that bet. I think the amount of the electorate that this will affect is the segment that probably aren't voting for the Democrat anyway. I trust (hope) that most Democrats will see through this race-baiting bullshit.

And as I said before, unless there's any evidence that Obama actually agrees with any of this than it doesn't matter to me. And I doubt Obama hates white people, considering that his MOTHER was a white woman.

[jackson_dem]

59. Who said that?

Read http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5066972

[leftynyc]

153. Sen Obama cannot win with just democrats

He needs independents and this issue needs to be addressed through that prism.

[Bullet1987]

57. It does matter...

Hagee with his staunch anti-Catholicism CAN burn McCain with that if it's used. You don't want the right-wing nuts to matter though because you're busy smearing Obama.

[jackson_dem]

58. Yes it can but with Obama what we lose with Wright is greater than what we gain with Hagee

Hagee is another reason we should nominate Hillary. With her we can pummel McCain on this.

[Bluenorthwest]

160. Hagee and Company

Are why our side should not be playing with Wrights and McClurkins. Frankly and sadly, if our candidate has these clerics on borad bashing away without apology, we have no right to criticize the other side for having bashing clerics. What is the argument exactly? Our candidate's Fundies just bash gays? So Hagee is worse? It becomes a matter of degrees. Hagee and McClurkin are the same thing exactly, and Wright will sound the same to many ears, rightly or wrongly.
Our Party used to stand against the Fundy influence in politics. Now it welcomes them, so whining about Hagee looks like hypocrisy on the half shell when it comes from Obama or his supporters. Sorry, but Caldwell is another one. Obama has been insulting Democratic voter bases with religious slanders for months on end. It is that simple. He owns McClurkin and Caldwell. He refused to apologize for direct and open bashing of gay people at events produced and paid for by Obama. He picked McClurkin and still has not said it was a mistake, he still stands with Donnie instead of with Democrats.
Tell me, if Hagee is evil and McClurkin is not, what are the metrics? In what ways does Caldwell differ from Hagee? Exactly how do you draw the line? Bashing for a Democrat is good? Bahsing gays acceptable from all sides? What are the precise and exact differences between Hagee and McClurkin?

[gmudem]

67. Some states with high Catholic populations...

New Mexico, New Hampshire, Arizona, Louisiana, North Dakota, Wisconsin, Florida, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Nebraska, Iowa.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholicism_in_the_United_States#Roman_Catholicism_by_State

Yeah I think Hagee is going to matter. I do agree Obama needs to denounce what Wright has said though.

[formernaderite]

83. for the past two days I've been trying to figure out how

he denounces this guy...who's been his pastor for twnety years? Maybe because I'm just an old white atheist dude...it makes me highly uncomfortable. I still think Obama can pull this out...but he's got to address this issue.

[stillcool]

87. Hasn't he already spoken...

about this issue several times? Doesn't seem to matter, does it? Race-baiting is so much fun!!

[leftynyc]

154. Race baiting????

How about religious freaks make me nervous whether on the right or the left. What's racist about that?

[gmudem]

103. I'm a young white atheist dude

And it does bother me a little that Obama is associating himself with this guy. Although Wright's controversial statements don't seem to have been about religion. It does help that Obama clearly does not agree with all of his statements (his mother was white, I doubt he hates white people.)

I guess we'll have to find out who is the biggest detriment to the campaigns; Wright to Obama's campaign or Hillary to Hillary's campaign.

[formernaderite]

140. Hillary to Hillary's campaign..me thinks

but like you I was an Edward's dude before he dropped out...and switched to Obama. I am just hoping this doesn't assist Hillary in her burn the bridge tour. At this point I'm okay with Obama...anyone but Hillary.

[reflection]

156. As an Obama-leaning person

I agree. It is disturbing and it is real. He needs to get out in front of it and discuss it. Preferably now instead of the GE. I have always been of the opinion that it is not our problems which define us, but our reaction to them.

[BlackVelvet04]

120. No, he's not going to hurt McCain.

Robertson and Falwell didn't hurt bush and Hagee isn't going to hurt McCain. Hagee was also a very vocal bush supporter and it didn't keep him from getting elected.

[gmudem]

If Democrats are smart they will make sure it does.

From what I understand Catholics used to vote largely Democratic and that trend has changed in the last couple presidential elections. When Obama's the nominee, he will be crazy not to bring up Hagee almost every day.

[Bluenorthwest]

161. Other Fundy Bush supporters

McClurkin and Caldwell of the Obama campaign's religious bigot branch.

Democrats are not supposed to have religious affiliations that involve hating groups deemed 'other', the Republicans are expected to do so.

[HughMoran]

90. Stupid post of the night award

You have nothing to contribute here if this is all you got from the O/P. See ya :hi:

[fairyforest]

127. Agree. empty post n/t

[polmaven]

121. The poster watched a tape...

so he/she "trusts" Billo! THERE WAS AN ACTUAL TAPE!

Unlike when the Obama supporters went absolutely nuts because DRUDGE.....DRUDGE said "The Clinton campaign" gave him that picture....you know....the one that was published months before in the supermarket rag "The Globe!

[leftynyc]

151. Do you trust video?

Or do you want to continue to keep your head in the sand? And since I've seen so many Sen Obama supporters use right wing tools (Drudge, Politico) to prove points, your outrage is very selective indeed.

[Redstone]

3. You're not helping anyone or anything with that post.

Especially if you forgot to add the "sarcasm" tag.

Redstone

[Herman Munster]

6. there is no sarcasm

it was real.

[TomInTib]

9. You know what's funny?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5066692&mesg_id=5066733

[Redstone]

13. Tom, check your PM soon. I'm outa here for the night.

Redstone

[CaliforniaPeggy]

4. Oh, REALLY?

I say bullshit.

Come on.

And video too? Well, that just proves it. :eyes:

[Name removed]

12. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TomInTib]

5. So did Frank Zappa

Knocking off the dope-heads, queers and coloreds.

And I have never doubted it.

Seriously.

[Spider Jerusalem]

And Bill Burroughs.

[Catherina]

55. Shhhh. Them be 'smart folks'... Too smart for Hillary's last official demographic

- uneducated voters.

[rodeodance]

66. INSULTING voters is not wise!! SHAME ON YOU

Shhhh. Them be 'smart folks'... Too smart for Hillary's last official demographic

Edited on Thu Mar-13-08 08:16 PM by Catherina
- uneducated voters.
Feminists for Obama

[rodeodance]

69. "- uneducated voters" Is NOT the sociological category used. YOU NEED TO EDUCATE YOURSELF

[Catherina]

91. Here in GDP, it sure is

You can't click on a thread without seeing at least a few ignant people.

[rodeodance]

109. I see you changed the subject.

[JoFerret]

183. What a terribly elitist piece of nonsense

Shameful

[Thurston Howell III]

7. And some other right wing wacko believes the Clintons have bodies

hidden in their homes too!

[Freddie Stubbs]

157. Is that wacko the preacher at McCain church?

:shrug:

[against all enemies]

8. I love that Fox News and Pat Buchanan now represent Hillary Democrats

[Yes We Did]

25. Amazing isn't it? Faux Noise and Pat Buchanan are now "credible"

[rodeodance]

76. yeah--do a search--looky at all the Obamafolk who have quoted them lately

[stillcool]

102. Fox News?

or an article written by Andrew Sullivan? Or statements made by Dick Morris?

[rodeodance]

106. tsk tsk you did not do your search.

[stillcool]

111. You're right...

those are the only two things I recall reading here, that were deemed outrageous by Clinton supporters. My Fox News search on DU didn't turn up much...Maybe you can help me narrow my search?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/searchresults.html?domains=democraticunderground.com&q=Fox+News&sa=Search&sitesearch=democraticunderground.com&client=pub-7805397860504090&forid=1&ie=ISO-8859-1&oe=ISO-8859-1&cof=GALT%3A%23008000%3BGL%3A1%3BDIV%3A%23336699%3BVLC%3A663399%3BAH%3Acenter%3BBGC%3AFFFFFF%3BLBGC%3A336699%3BALC%3A0000FF%3BLC%3A0000FF%3BT%3A000000%3BGFNT%3A0000FF%3BGIMP%3A0000FF%3BFORID%3A11&hl=en

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

139. Should tell you something.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

10. If True, He's Out Of His Mind. I Haven't Seen Any Of The Vids Yet, But Based On What I'm Reading,

he seems like he's totally off his rocker.

[indimuse]

11. I knew this would be huge!

Obama is unelectable.

[Emit]

14. sorry meant to post to OP

[Joe the Revelator]

15. Another race baiting post by Herman

Color me shocked. At what point can we start banning obvious race baiters??

[loveangelc]

19. I don't think this another is race baiting post, like usual.

This is going to be a problem! I can tell you, my parents like Obama right now, but if they see this, idk what they will think. They may not stop supporting them but I can guarantee it will raise doubts about him because he associates himself and is close with someone like this.

[stillcool]

30. Your parents..

should vote for whoever they are comfortable with. I'm sure they do not recall the legacy of Tuskegee, so they won't understand why the black population does not trust their government.
AN APOLOGY 65 YEARS LATE

May 16, 1997
Lasting Legacy

Beginning in 1932, the federal government sponsored a study to examine the impact of syphilis involving black men. The experiment went on until 1972 without the test subjects' knowledge, but no President had apologized to the volunteers and their families until President Clinton did so today. Following a background report on the experiment, Charlayne Hunter-Gault looks at what the legacy of Tuskegee.


http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/health/may97/tuskegee_5-16a.html

[writes3000]

33. THANK YOU FOR POSTING THIS.

It does put the claim into perspective, doesn't it?

[JackBeck]

39. I'll go even deeper into history:

J. Marion Sims, father of modern day gynecology.

Surgically experimented on slave women.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/479892

There is a pervasive and understandable mistrust in certain communities when it comes to the government and medical community.

[stillcool]

49. does for me...

I suspect it is totally irrelevant to some.

[Melinda]

41. Oh please..The Tuskegee experiments were about the Govt Infecting Black Men w/Syphillis, NOT Aids!

OMG, it's like a totally different disease!!

:sarcasm:

[stillcool]

46. Oh Please...

Is it beyond your comprehension why a people who have been targeted by the U.S. Government since the boats brought them from Africa might believe this????

Edit to Add...I'm sorry!! Your :sarcasm: didn't compute! Mea culpa.

[JackBeck]

47. The government did not infect Black men with syphilis.

They observed already infected Black men to watch disease progression, even when penicillin was discovered to treat them.

Still just as barbaric, but I just wanted to clarify your point.

[Melinda]

89. Admitted provocation....

My bad. I should have messaged you first. ;)

[loveangelc]

53. FYI my parents DO know about this.

Does AIDS only affect black people?

[stillcool]

65. Does syphilis ?

[loveangelc]

70. Are you serious?

God, I hope not.

This is a problem. Whether or not you agree with his comments, it is a problem for most people and no one will find this ok except those who are very liberal, which isnt most of the country.

[stillcool]

77. Are you?

You might have a problem with Black History. And you might believe that the "rest of the country" believes as you do. Maybe in your world, not in mine.

[Tellurian]

34. You are known by the people you associate with..Obama

has 20yr relationships with Rev Wright, and the slumlord, Anton Rezko. How does an honest man associate with these creeps and be presidential material?

[cali]

43. That works both ways

Look at who hilly and billy associate with: Frank Giustra, Gupta, Hsu, Paul, and legions more scum.

[jgraz]

88. Oh no, it doesn't work that way. HillBilly are above reproach

:eyes:

[ikojo]

189. Let us not forget the tax felon Marc Rich who was

pardoned by Billary as they left office in 2001.

Hillary is listening to her new political guru, Bill Kristol.

[UALRBSofL]

143. I guess it could be race baiting but

I have seen these videos Herman is posting about. They showed then on AC360, Kill O'Reilly, and a few other shows, I can't remember. And the videos of his sermons did talk about the aids and the 911 and some other stuff and the Clintons too.

[JoFerret]

185. Head in sand to say race-baiting or whatever

.

[jackson_dem]

38. Obamite trying to censor dissent on St. Obama yet again

This is a fucking big political issue. Not everyone is blinded by Obama.

[leftynyc]

155. Do you agree with Rev Wright?

And your cries about race baiting are becomming rather boring. Take your head out of the sand, come up for air and try to contribute something that might actually be helpful to Sen Obama.

[MannyGoldstein]

16. Probably Asking Too Much, But...

Evidence, please?

[Hepburn]

I googled and got one video....from YOUTUBE and the soundtrack...

...is barely understandable.

[fairyforest]

122. Yeah, no evidence is presented

And we need it.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

17. oh I thought ronald reagan said it was to kill the gays

[K Gardner]

18. This "rumor" has been around for as long as I can remember. Its not specific to Wright.

[rodeodance]

73. too bad Wright works with BO.

[K Gardner]

110. You have absolutely nothing of substance to add to any discussion. I understand you are

frustrated and these days are hard on you, but stop embarassing yourself.

[1776Forever]

92. I had heard this too & after surfing around I found this article that points to it...

http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/sepp/2004/10/20/aids_called_black_genocide_us_special_virus_program_chart_vindicates_maathai.htm

October 20, 2004

AIDS Called Black Genocide - US Special Virus Program Chart Vindicates Maathai

In what appears to be a confirmation of Nobel Wangari Maathai's statement that Aids may be a man-made illness, Boyd E. Graves J.D. has published his research into the US government's “Special Virus” program on a site dedicated to the issue. According to his timeline, the research program goes back to the late 1800s. Graves charges that the program is specifically directed against Blacks with a view to reducing their population, both within the United States and across the African continent. The research is documented in a 1971 secret government flow chart, the existence of which, says Boyd, was only discovered in 1999.

...........

You know it is easy to jump at declaring someone "crazy" but can we really put ANYTHING now off the table? It seems like this man may know something that we don't!

Let's at least say it COULD be true.

[izzybeans]

20. You'll find this to be one of the original MIHOP conspiracy theories.

Not unusual.

[loveangelc]

21. It is to a lot of people.

[Yes We Did]

22. I thought it was invented to kill LGBT people... And it's probably true.

[From The Left]

23. Stop Watching Billo, Genius

[From The Left]

24. FLAMEBAIT. PLEASE LOCK

[jackson_dem]

40. Another member of the Obama posting police arrives

As if censoring discussion of Obama's bigoted mentor/pastor at DU will prevent the rest of the world from hearing about it. :eyes:

[From The Left]

52. Just Following the Example of the Hillbots

But the thread won't be locked because any sort of racist shit about Obama gets 3 gold stars by the moderators. But criticize Hillary and the thread is labeled flamebait and locked.

Talk about a bias and a double standard. But then everyone knew that.

[leftynyc]

158. Covering your ear, eyes and

screaming LA LA LA LA LA LA LA also works.

[JackBeck]

26. If you possessed one shred of cultural competency

you'd understand that this a commonly held belief in communities of color.

And should be validated, not held up for ridicule, given the history, especially within the African-American community, of institutionalized abuse.

[loveangelc]

60. What evidence is there of this???? He said this as if it were FACT!!!

And African Americans may be highly infected with AIDS, but they are NOT the only people infected with AIDS. Tell me, what would be the reasoning for the government spreading AIDS???????

[JackBeck]

64. I didn't say there was evidence.

I said that, culturally, it's a commonly held belief, because of the massive mistrust in both the government and medical community.

I first point you to J. Marion Sims. When you're done with him, look up Tuskegee. Follow- that up with the Philadelphia prison experiments.

When you're done, we can talk.

[loveangelc]

79. The point is, there is no evidence for the african american community to believe this.

african americans were not the first people to get AIDS.

The point though, isnt whether or not is is justified. The point is that this could hurt him if he doesn't do SOMETHING.

[stillcool]

85. Is this an Obama Campaign Worker..

saying this? Do you have evidence to provide the black community that the government did no such thing?

[loveangelc]

98. He is on Obama's African American religious leadership committee.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0308/Wrights_committee.html

[stillcool]

107. hmmmm.....I realize the article is ..

from 2007, but I can't find him...

Renowned Faith Leaders Come Together to Support Obama

Unprecedented group of nation’s top Black religious leaders unveiled

CHARLESTON, S.C. –U.S. Sen. Barack Obama’s campaign today unveiled its African American Religious Leadership Committee at both the national and statewide levels. Together, they represent two groups of key national and South Carolina religious leaders who are supporting Obama’s bid for the Democratic nomination.

*Endorsements from religious leaders are extended in their personal capacity, and not on behalf of any house of worship, organization or denomination.

###

Contact: Kevin Griffis Amaya Smith


SOUTH CAROLINA
Rev. A.C. Robinson Pleasant Grove Baptist Church
Rev. A.R. Kollock Greater Target Church
Rev. Aaron Bishop Grace Church
Rev. Adrian McIlwain Cornerstone Baptist Church
Rev. Alanza Washington Wallingford Presbyterian Church
Rev. Alfred Jefferson Garden of Prayer Church
Rev. Allen Robinson Mt. Pleasant Missionary Baptist Church
Rev. Alvin Murdock Christ Deliverance Church
Rev. Andrew Jordan Biggers A.M.E. Church
Rev. Angelin Simmons Johns Island Parish
Rev. Anna Miller St. James United Methodist Church
Rev. Anthony Campbell Folly Road Church of Christ
Rev. Anthony McCallum Bethlehem Baptist Church
Rev. Audrey Deas St. Paul's Presbyterian Church
Rev. Benjamin Graham Mt. Zion United Methodist Church
Rev. Bernard Brown Jerusalem A.M.E. Church
Rev. Bertha Jean Burroughs Gospel Tabernacle Church
Rev. Bill Stringfellow (ret.) Cornerstone Baptist Church
Rev. Michael Blue Door of Hope Church
Rev. Boykin Jordan Living Word Baptist Church
Rev. Brown St. Beulah Baptist Church
Rev. Caesar Richburg Williams Chapel A.M.E. Church
Rev. Charles B. Jackson, Jr. New Laurel Street Baptist
Rev. Charles Heyward St. James Presbyterian Church
Rev. Charles Pee Friendship Baptist Church
Rev. Charlie Howard (ret.) Mt. Pleasant A.M.E. Church
Rev. Clifford Gaymon Zion Hill Baptist Church
Rev. Clifford Levine Bethel A.M.E. Church
Pastor Corey J. Williams Giants 4 Christ Ministries
Rev. Daniel McCowan Maxwell Baptist Church
Rev. Deleon McRae Mt. Tema Missionary Baptist Church
Pastor Donald Goodwine St. Paul's Baptist Church
Rev. Donna Jacobs Insight Ministries
Rev. Doris Haynes Faithworks International
Rev. Drusilla Harvin Trinity A.M.E. Church
Rev. Ed McClain Calvary A.M.E. Church
Rev. Elaine Harvey Gethsemane Baptist Church
Bishop Finas Bush Crown Christian Center
Rev. Frankie Thomas Manning Baptist Church
Rev. Freda Bonner St.Paul MBC
Rev. Freddie Thomas Mt. Bethel Baptist Church
Rev. Garfield Capers God's Heart Ministries
Rev. George West Royal Baptist
Rev. George Windley Ebenezer Baptist
Assoc. Pastor Gollie Walker Ebenzer Baptist
Bishop Harold Sawyer Greater Zion Tabernacle
Dr. Harris Church Macedonia Missionary Baptist
Rev. Hayes Gainey Edisto Fork United Methodist
Rev. Henry Badie Pentecostal Temple
Rev. Henry Cook Friendship Baptist
Rev. Henry McGill, Jr. Mt. Pisgah Baptist
Pastor Herbert Harvey Gethsemane Baptist
Rev. Jack Peterson New Bethlehem Baptist
Rev. Jacqueline Aiken New Life Mansion
Rev. James Abraham Bethlehem Baptist
Rev. James Elbert Williams Mt. Beulah/New Hope U.M.C.
Rev. James Holiday Bushy Pond Baptist
Rev. James J. Robinson (ret.) Bethel Grove A.M.E.
Rev. James Lane Canaan/Sand Hill
Rev. Jarvis Brown Agape Christian Outreach Ministries
Rev. Jeanette Cooper-Dicks Cumberland United Methodist
Rev. Jerry Corbett Pee Dee Union Baptist
Rev. Jerry Edwards Tabernacle Baptist
Rev. John Berry New Jerusalem MBC
Rev. John Davis Berea Association
Rev. John Elliott Shady Grove United Methodist
Pastor John Smalls Greater Friendship A.M.E.
Minister Johnny Jenkins Maxwell-Pamlico Baptist
Rev. Joseph Mason Glover's Chapel
Rev. Joseph Williams, Jr. Mt. Nebo Baptist
Assoc. Pastor Josephine Richardson Payne RMUE
Rev. Julius Barnes St. Luke
Rev. Julius McDowell Wesley UMC
Rev. Kay Colleton Manna Life Center
Rev. Keith Hunter Wesley United Methodist
Rev. Kenneth Doe St. Joseph's Baptist
Rev. Larry Fowler Mt. Sinai Baptist
Rev. Leo Woodbury Bethlehem A.M.E.
Rev. Leon Winn Rock Hill Missionary Baptist
Rev. Leonard Huggins New Covenant United Methodist
Rev. Leroy Cannon New Bethel
Rev. Lewis Duckett Shiloh Baptist
Rev. Lonnie Jones Millway Baptist
Rev. Lowman L. Jamison Antioch Baptist (ret.)
Rev. Marvin Kelty Centerville Baptist
Rev. Matthew Furness Poplar A.M.E. Church
Rev. Michael Barr Snow Hill Baptist
Rev. Michael Peppers Fairfield Baptist Church
Rev. Minnie Chapman Pee Dee Union Baptist
Pastor Monroe Bush, Jr. Smyrna Baptist
Rev. Norman Gamble New Ebenezer Baptist
Rev. Norman Jenkins Grays Hill
Assoc. Pastor Norman Kithcart Living Word Baptist
Rev. Norman Pearson First Baptist
Rev. Odonald Dingle Shiloh Missionary Baptist
Rev. Otis Scott, Jr. Camden First U.M.C.
Rev. Ralph Canty Savannah Grove Baptist
Rev. Randolph Scipio Bula Land
Rev. Reggie McLeod, Sr. Kay Branch
Rev. Rev. Graves Mill Branch A.M.E.
Rev. Rickey Syndab Morris Chapel
Rev. Robert Capers Salem & Bethel Presbyterian
Rev. Robert Deas Lovely Hill Baptist
Rev. Robert Dennis Cedar Grove
Rev. Robin Dease Wesley United Methodist
Rev. Rodney James Mt. Hermon Baptist
Rev. Sam Whack, Jr. Chaney Grove Baptist
Rev. Samuel Burgess St. Stephen's Baptist
Rev. Sandra Harrison Macedonia Baptist
Rev. Sandra Muldrow New Ebenezer Baptist
Rev. Sean Dogan Long Branch Baptist
Rev. Steven Singleton Mother Emanuel
Pastor Telley Gadson St. Mark's United Methodist
Rev. Thomas Sims Mt. Zion United Methodist
Minister Verneda Temoney Savannah Grove Baptist
Rev. Victor Wilson United A.M.E.
Rev. Virgil Johnson New Revelations
Rev. Waymen Coleman Flat Rock A.M.E. Church
Rev. William Pee Pleasant Grove Baptist
Rev. William Swinton Ebenezer A.M.E.
Rev. William Thompson Mt. Claire Baptist
Rev. Willie Dennis Union Baptist
Rev. Willie Fant Miracle COGIC
Pastor Winnifa Clark Shephard's Outreach
Rev. Winston Olithant

[loveangelc]

115. what article are you talking about?

http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2008/obama/obama120407pr.html

[stillcool]

124. This one...

http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2008/obama/obama120407prsc.html

[loveangelc]

125. well, he's still on the committee according to the link I just gave you.

[stillcool]

130. I see that. Thank you.

I hope these pastors take this opportunity to have a Press Conference and respond to not only what Reverend Wright has said, but the use of racial division in this Campaign to garner votes. This could be a silver lining kind of thing. I hope they take advantage of it.

[stillcool]

129. Delete.

[JackBeck]

95. Sure, there is no evidence. Never said there was any evidence.

But possessing cultural competency would lead one to understanding WHY certain communities harbor distrust.

[apocalypsehow]

144. You know, babbling over and over about "cultural competency" and getting snarky with posters who

don't snap to attention and salute whenever "JackBeck" pronounces on a topic at a discussion board is in really poor form. Just FYI.

[JackBeck]

146. Raising attention for "cultural competency" isn't snark.

It's a reality that some of us DUers deal with on a daily basis.

[bicentennial_baby]

150. ...

:applause:

:hug:

[spoony]

176. You said the belief "should be validated"

That isn't simply "understanding" why people might believe it.

[JackBeck]

178. In my line of work

We use the word "validate" to address someone's feelings or concerns, particularly in regard to culturally held beliefs and traditions, before we offer any educational facts that may contradict something they have always believed.

When I do HIV Overview presentation at ASO's throughout the city, as well as the country, I devote a whole piece to conspiracy theories over the origin of HIV. I do these workshops not only for clients, but also non-medical service providers. Particularly with non-medical service providers, they are always asked about all the ct's surrounding HIV. We talk about how to deliver material "which most research supports". But before you do that, we talk about how to "validate" a client's concerns, before offering them "what most research show".

I hope that clarifies things.

[spoony]

180. It does, thanks

Basically it's about taking their concerns seriously, then. Understood.

[JackBeck]

181. Exactly.

:pals:

[Blue-Jay]

27. You and O'Reilly are a match made in heaven.

Are you really saying that when a pastor says something stupid, that every member of the congregation should be blamed?

Is that what you're saying? (tread carefully here...)

[no name no slogan]

28. Actually, there's evidence that government-sponsored polio vaccination programs in Africa

may have inadvertently spread the AIDS virus around sub-Saharan Africa:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIDS_origin#Oral_polio_vaccine_hypothesis

The view itself is not uncommon, even in the mainstream.

[redstate_democrat]

32. Come on now!

EVERY fucking body knows about this theory. You cannot be serious as to believe that Wright is the first person to come up with this? Have you ever heard of the Tuskegee Experiment? Google is your friend on that front. Who would have ever thunk the government would use black men as guinea pigs in a sick and twisted syphilis experiment? There have been several books written on the AIDS conspiracy as WELL as MANY articles written in MEDICAL JOURNALS.

Do you know the history of how AIDS supposedly came into existence?

COME ON!

[HughMoran]

35. Oh, who cares about this idiot

C'mon - let's not attack Obama like his morans attack Clinton - this place is already infested with enough mindlessness from the Obama adolescents posting 2nd grade insults.

[cbayer]

81. I am in absolute agreement with you.

But pleas to make it stop fall on deaf ears.

[blogslut]

37. I say, give us more Pastor Wright!

Looks like some folks have been leading very sheltered, privileged lives. Wake up little golden one. All is not well in storybook land.

[annie1]

50. are you saying that it true?

[blogslut]

75. I'm saying it's time some people took the wax out of their ears

And started to hear that things aren't as rosy as they seem.

Do I think AIDS was some deliberate plot? I have no idea. I think it doesn't matter anymore where it came from. What matters is that the majority of people contracting and dying from it happen to be poor and brown. I know that being poor and brown can lead one to become bitter and resentful - especially when a big country, led by a white man, offers AIDs prevention funding to a another nation but with abstinence-only strings attached.

[NDambi]

42. AIDS, IS THIS MAN MADE GENOCIDE?

(edited for copyright purposes-proud patriot Moderator Democratic Underground)

YOU DECIDE!

AIDS, is this a man-made virus designed to annihilate people of African
descent worldwide? Evidence points to this fact. This information is
imperative for our procreation and our continuum. C.E. serves to inform.
Internalize this information or research for yourself, Aids is as
serious as it gets. Let this web page serve as a reference point for all
those concerned about the possible extinction of the Black race from
this planet!

NY Amsteradam News April 8th 1998:

A bomb is ticking in the Black community.

Each hour, three African-Americans contract HIV, the virus that causes
AIDS. Black Americans represent 12 percent of the total U.S. population,
yet they accounted for 43% of new AIDS cases in 1996, according to a
recent survey conducted by the Kaiser Family Foundation.

Aids is the leading killer of African-Americans between the ages of 25
and 44; more Black Americans die from AIDS than from homicide, drugs and
alcohol, cancer and heart disease combined!

Chapter from: "AIDS, The End of Civilization", by William Campbell
Douglass, M.D. 1989.

The world was startled when the London Times reported on its front
page, May 11, 1987, that the World Health Organization (WHO) had
"triggered" the AIDS epidemic in Africa through the WHO smallpox
immunization program. The only people in the free world not surprised by
the London Times front page expose were the Americans--because they
never heard about it. It is chilling to think that our press is so
controlled that the most momentous news break since the assassination of
President Kennedy didn't even make the sports section, much less the
front page of any American daily paper, radio or television news.

[JackBeck]

51. We know that HIV has been around since AT LEAST the 1930's.

CD4/T-Cells weren't discovered by immunologists until the 1970's.

You do the math.

[NDambi]

56. Just sharing what I read and found ..people have opinions and they are entitled..I find the subject

fascinating though...

After the Tuskegee Experiment, I don't blame anyone for believing anything is possible when it comes to shit like this..

Just my two cents

[JackBeck]

100. And I was sharing, as well.

There has to come a time when opinions not supported with facts are validated, but debunked.

Most research has shown that we know where HIV comes from. And we know that it is impossible for the government to have created a virus that attacks a specific cell of the immune system that hadn't been yet discovered.

If you have read the replies to this thread, you'd understand that I acknowledged many times why certain communities harbor mistrust.

[NDambi]

119. Thank you....

[wakemeupwhenitsover]

72. Hi NDambi,

Please be aware that DU copyright rules require that excerpts of copyrighted material be limited to four paragraphs and must include a link to the original source.

best,
wakemeupwhenitsover
DU Moderator

[NDambi]

97. Thank you

[jackson_dem]

44. Obamites still don't see what this is about, with 1 exception

This isn't going to play well with general election voters regardless of whether it is believed by some. This ties in with the whole "Obama hates America" smear.

[cali]

68. It's impossible to know whether this will be

crippling to Obama in the general. I know you hillbots are convinced that it will do him in, but there's really no way of knowing. Some candidates are better than others at deflecting such attacks. Call it the teflon factor. We'll just have to see.

[mzmolly]

48. Oh good God, here we go.

No pun intended.

[From The Left]

54. FLAMEBAIT. PLEASE LOCK

[rodeodance]

74. did you whin about all 80 Fererro threads yesterday?

[JoFerret]

114. AS the originator of many flame posts yourself, you sure like free and open debate.

.

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JoFerret]

118. No admiration here. Question...

Do you think this will go away as an issue?
Now?

In October?

White pride? What are you talking about?


And please do not call me a Clintonite or Hillbot. Thank-you.

[Marie26]

62. So what's the connection to Obama?

Is this just a supporter, or the pastor of his church, or what?

[Chulanowa]

63. I'm glad he's not running for office, then!

I mean, that would be a major landmine on the road to the presidency for Rev. Wright, don't you think?

[rodeodance]

71. NEITHER was Fererro!!---

[stillcool]

82. No. She just works for the Campaign...

Another "I'm sorry" moment brought to us by the Clinton Campaign. Want me to post some articles?

[loveangelc]

84. I'm sorry but you cannot have a double standard.

I'm an Obama supporter. Geraldine was out of line, and though she was working with the campaign, the fact that Obama is UNDER a man who believes things like this is somewhat disturbing.

[redstate_democrat]

96. Obama

is under Wright? I think Barack Obama is his own man and is capable of holding his own views.

[stillcool]

99. "UNDER"?

I believe there are several "issues" that disturb you and the people that share your world regarding Senator Obama. I suspect that if you were an Obama supporter, as you claim, you would be well aware of how long Obama has been responding to this issue.

By Michael Hill | Sun Reporter
January 16, 2008

In a statement released by his campaign last night, Obama responded to questions about Wright's comments on Sunday.

"As I've told Reverend Wright, personal attacks such as this have no place in this campaign or our politics, whether they're offered from a platform at a rally or the pulpit of a church," he said. "I don't think of the pastor of my church in political terms.

"Like a member of my own family, there are things he says at times with which I deeply disagree," he said. "But as he prepares to retire, that doesn't detract from my affection for Reverend Wright or appreciation for the good works he has done."
http://clusty.com/search?v%3afile=viv_930%4032%3alim1yj&sec=1205462871&v:state=root|root-10-10|0

[Chulanowa]

145. Is Wright an official part of the Obama campaign?

When he speaks, does he do so with a paycheck signed by Obama in his pocket?

If not, then I'm afraid it's not a very valid comparison.

[Pawel K]

167. Fererro was officially part of Clinton's campaign, thats the first point

the second point is that Obama is distancing himself from these remarks, Clinton refused to distance herself from Fererro after she made her comments.

[stolidus]

117. Guilt by association...

In this case, TWENTY years of mentoring. Like it or not, a portion of character is developed and demonstrated by the friends one keeps. The relationship Obama has maintained with this fellow requires a serious look at the core of Obama's character to be sure...What one finds when looking closely is a matter of personal revelation.

The fact remains that he will be a liability come General Election time.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

141. Precisely!

[durrrty libby]

78. BO's pastor for 20 years and listed as a part of his

African American Religious Leadership Committee


http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2008/obama/obama120407pr.html

and if you haven't seen it, check out the ABC investigates piece

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5066606&mesg_id=5066606

[superkia]

80. Well this settles it, I have seen here on DU all the things that...

show us that Clinton and Obama shouldn't be president. Now does that mean we should vote for McCain, hes the only one left right. Its getting tough understanding what all of the Clinton and Obama supporters are trying to do here in DU, are each side pointing out anything connected to them because it shows that neither of them should be POTUS or what... I'm confused here?

I liked it when Kucinich was running, we heard about things like corruption in D.C., wars for oil, the attack on the constitution, health care as a right an so on. Nowadays 90% of DU is screaming about how horrible the last democratic candidates are...So are we all going for McCain or what exactly is the plan for democrats? Almost everything here parrots the media, does anyone out there think for themselves anymore or is that a thing in the past.


I think all of the people throwing the shit at each of the candidates should also have a McCain avatar because thats who you are all helping!

[JoFerret]

86. OK - the man is crackers

Now- what needs to be assessed is how close the tie to Obama is.
Can he deal somehow?

I assume so. (I do NOT think Obama is Wright)


If not the hello GOP in 2009. If he is the nominee then it's over now.

Can Obama disentangle himself from Wright?

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

94. Not easily. You know Wright coined "The Audacity of Hope"...

That particular Wright sermon is in Barack's book of the same title.

He and Obama are really close, not like these "someone who endorsed someone" deals.

But I have no idea how it plays out. Barack is strong enough with black voters now that he can throw anyone under the bus without repercussions.

(That was not the case during the McClurkin business when I think Obama feared repercussions in the SC black church community more than any GLBT blow-back)

[JoFerret]

113. That is what I fear. Even if this dies down now....

The GOP is awaiting to go full bore.

[1776Forever]

93. Don't be so quick to judge - This man says it could just have some merit - Please read....

http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/sepp/2004/10/20/aids_called_black_genocide_us_special_virus_program_chart_vindicates_maathai.htm

October 20, 2004

AIDS Called Black Genocide - US Special Virus Program Chart Vindicates Maathai

In what appears to be a confirmation of Nobel Wangari Maathai's statement that Aids may be a man-made illness, Boyd E. Graves J.D. has published his research into the US government's “Special Virus” program on a site dedicated to the issue. According to his timeline, the research program goes back to the late 1800s. Graves charges that the program is specifically directed against Blacks with a view to reducing their population, both within the United States and across the African continent. The research is documented in a 1971 secret government flow chart, the existence of which, says Boyd, was only discovered in 1999.

...........

You know it is easy to jump at declaring someone "crazy" but can we really put ANYTHING now off the table? It seems like this person may know something that we don't!

Let's at least say it COULD be true.

[rucky]

101. Yeah, we get it. n/t

[Freida5]

104. And this is the inspiration behind Obama

[Hepburn]

105. Ummmmmmm....yeah, a progressive watching Faux Snooze and...

...taking their reports at face value. Welcome to the other side...:puke:

[cottonseed]

112. Unless you believe Obama agrees with this

then I am looking forward to how you will be working to help the Democratic party and Obama counter this slimy attack during the General against McCain and the Republicans.

We should all be glad that you are doing the necessary legwork now in uncovering this filth. You will be a great asset come November.

[angie_love]

116. I'll defend Obama till the end but HE NEEDS TO DISOWN THIS GUY NOW!!

Why is this guys endorsement still on his website!?! Why isn't he saying more to disown him? Does he not realize this could RUIN HIM?! I'm so pissed at him right now. I do NOT for one second think Obama shares this kooks views, however him being silent about it is not going to cut it! The Wingnuts are going to have a field day with this and they are starting to already. If Obama loses the GE for us b/c he didn't disown this guy then I'll be very upset. This NYTimes is even fucking reporting this! Its out there and growing, Obama end this shit now!

[bridgit]

123. People that say such things are expressing racist points of view, HIV/AIDS is a human problem.

[JackBeck]

126. bridgit, that's an irresponsible post.

While I personally don't ascribe to the government theory, just look at the numbers of which communities are disproportionately infected.

And look at how communities of color have been experimented on for centuries in the United States.

It's not racism, for many, it's a cultural reality.

[bridgit]

128. Negative, JB, having been an HIV/AIDS councilor I am able to appreciate where you are coming from...

I put allot of friends into their graves. Not just blacks. The greater irresponsibility is...sometimes found within the groups to which you allude. It's not possible to over emphasize education; education is key, still, some continue to conduct themselves within high-risk-prone behaviors.

With respect to government planting:

There was allot of talk in & around the bay area in the mid 70's that spoke upon HIV/AIDS being introduced into the blood-line, so as to say, to attenuate portions of the population (high-high levels of conspiratorial views) that were seen as high-risk-prone i.e. promiscuous, multi partner/intra gender sex (again, not just blacks), intravenous drug users, etc, it was said to be a harbinger of the Waking Malthusian Nightmare to come, a means to bring plague upon segments of societies...many people educated themselves, others did not. While people invested in companies (D. Rumsfeld is one as a for instance, Carlyle Group, etc) that design vaccines and pharmaceutical regimens are flush with funding, and not just governmental but private funding. This is not imo just a black issue. This is not imo just a G&L issue. This is imo a human issue, one either cares or one does not. If there is any point to be made with such a tack on governmental interference in this regard? Then it is clear we are all being played.

If it isn't already; education should be a cultural reality as well

[JackBeck]

134. Friend, since I know we're pretty much on the same side with this issue

My take on your original post was that you thought the Pastor was being racist against Caucasians, since this virus affects everyone, regardless of color.

I took it one step further, by observing how not only communities of color are infected in higher rates in this country but also Africa, but also acknowledging how this governmental conspiracy should be acknowledged because of the historical context.

Are we on the same page, or are there differences?

[bridgit]

142. Well yes, you are correct, there is a further step to take...

At congregation, the Pastor himself was trying to educate as to the ease with which the swab is applied, and the results attained. My greater hope is that he is equally concerned with behaviors.

You're right; Africa is exploding with AIDS. The numbers are biblical. Yet they are hard pressed to get African men to attend classes that would go a long way toward easing such a horrendous malady. Common sense things: condoms, where multiple partners are frequented, etc.

So the educational heavy lifting is being done by African women, and they are trying. But the time-line is compressed.

Friend...

I do think we're on the same page. And I do think we have our perspectives upon it. I'm not willing to talk past anyone about an issue as important as HIV/AIDS

[David Zephyr]

131. Herman Munster and once again the topic is....race.

Wow. At least you are consistent.

[sueragingroz]

132. o no... did he get this from McClurkin?

Ok... sorry... bad taste alert.

i think on this note i'll go to bed.

[JackBeck]

135. Don't go to bed.

Edit your post for its anti-gay humor.

[sueragingroz]

186. you mean "ex-gay" humour.

[Warren Stupidity]

133. Not a particularly far fetched theory.

Created is perhaps a bit over the top, but almost certainly our obstruction over making treatment and prevention widely available counts as facilitating after the fact.

[JackBeck]

136. 20 years ago, probably.

But we're not obstructing treatment and prevention in liberal communities nowadays.

[Warren Stupidity]

147. We continue to obstruct outside of the US.

In particular in Africa.

[JackBeck]

149. I now see your point and agree.

Need to take off those 'Merican blinders sometimes.

[JackBeck]

148. Delete.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

137. So fucking what.

[geek tragedy]

138. A Clinton fan who gets his news from Fox News and Bill O'Reilly.

Further proof that Clinton supporters aren't Democrats--just Freepers in disguise.

Because Clinton=McCain.

[leftynyc]

159. Did you complain when

Sen Obama supporters used the gospel of Drudge for their insistence that Clinton gave him the muslim dress photo that had been around for quite a while? I'm guessing no.

If yes, I'll be happy to apologize for calling you a fucking hypocrit. For the record, not a Hillary supporter. Both candidates make me sick at this point (although I'll vote for either over McCain).

[canuk1]

152. what about McCain's pastors

His pastors have said:

The Catholic religion is the great whore.
Katrina was caused by gay people.
The muslim religion is phony (millions and millions of phony people)

McCain people issued an oped in the WSJ today that basically says Obama believes in all of his Pastor's statements, without denouncing his own pastor's stupid statements.

This is going to fuel the race issue even more. White pastors versus Black pastors. Its okay to attack gays, muslims, and catholics, but if you say America was wrong about something you are a radical. Once again Obama will increase his black vote and lose more of the white vote. Clinton is enjoying this without having to do any of the work. Be afraid of the crazy black man, be very afraid.

Obama has to go on the attack against McCain. Call him a phony for knocking the religious right back in 2000 and now kissing their ass and going along with this race baiting. Call him a phony and a flip flopper. Forget Clinton, begin attacking McCain and attack him hard. Attack him until McCain's head explodes and everyone see what an insane person he is. They need to get him to lose his temper in public so people will see how dangerous it would be to have him as president. You do that by attacking his character. There is alot to go after.

[MyNameGoesHere]

162. Who else that has endorsed Obama has a

similar statement? Hmmm??? Hint. Nation of Islam leader.

[Pawel K]

164. So you are saying Obama is responsible for who endorses him?

Even if he flat out condamns them? Interesting, would you say the same about Hillary?

[MyNameGoesHere]

168. Nope but it's funny that he has

2 endorsements from very controversial people. But then again we should not say anything because , well you know, he should get a pass.

[Pawel K]

170. How is that funny?

How does he control who endorses him?

And you didn't answer my question, do you hold Hillary to the same standard?

[MyNameGoesHere]

172. I don't hold either to a standard

but i just think it odd that he has 2 very controversial figures that spout some really strange things. Like me saying i went to a Klan meeting but i disagree with the grand poohbah, so it's ok to go because i disagree with his message.

[Pawel K]

173. oh ok, I get it

so the fact that 2 "controversial" figures have endorsed him is on the same level of attending a klan metting. That makes perfect sense, thank you for being so reasonable and open minded.

(do I need to add the sarcasm tag?)

[MyNameGoesHere]

174. Yes and he willingly attended one of those church for a very long time.

never condemned the message that may have been a tad wrong. Just said you can't choose what the pastor says. Maybe, but he could damn well choose not to keep listening to him, but he didn't. i think my analogy is to the side of extreme but still, if YOUR spiritual leader told you the whitey was a devil trying to kill black people you would stay? Maybe there is something to this cult thing after all.
Oh and thanks for asking me if i was stupid or something, i know sarcasm when it is wasted on me.

[Pawel K]

177. So do you share the same criticism for Hillary

who attends the bible club with republicans in the senate?

And I'm curious, what do you disagree with Wright on?

[MyNameGoesHere]

187. look the author of Audacity of Hope, whose title was inspired by

a pastor that preached Goddamn America was the inspiration, mentor, and the one that married Obama. It's your problem. Now go and support that. Because that one don't play in Peoria or anywhere else. See the silly things that happen when religion enters the fold? So no to answer your question i believe all religions are evil by nature.

[Pawel K]

163. Thanks for proving Clinton supporters are now watching/listening to O'reilly

I don't know what Wright said but Wright is not officially affiliated with Obama's campaign in any way. That still leaves the question, what the fuck are you people doing watching Bill O'Reilly?

[From The Left]

165. FLAMEBAIT. PLEASE LOCK

[Pawel K]

166. I looked around for the video and can't find it anywhere. You gonna put up or shut up?

[Oilwellian]

169. I wonder what Billo's thoughts are on Hillary's religious leader

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/09/hillary ...

Hillary's Prayer: Hillary Clinton's Religion and Politics
September 1, 2007

---snip---

Through all of her years in Washington, Clinton has been an active participant in conservative Bible study and prayer circles that are part of a secretive Capitol Hill group known as the Fellowship. Her collaborations with right-wingers such as Senator Sam Brownback (R-Kan.) and former Senator Rick Santorum (R-Pa.) grow in part from that connection. "A lot of evangelicals would see that as just cynical exploitation," says the Reverend Rob Schenck, a former leader of the militant anti-abortion group Operation Rescue who now ministers to decision makers in Washington. "I don't....there is a real good that is infected in people when they are around Jesus talk, and open Bibles, and prayer."

***

When Clinton first came to Washington in 1993, one of her first steps was to join a Bible study group. For the next eight years, she regularly met with a Christian "cell" whose members included Susan Baker, wife of Bush consigliere James Baker; Joanne Kemp, wife of conservative icon Jack Kemp; Eileen Bakke, wife of Dennis Bakke, a leader in the anti-union Christian management movement; and Grace Nelson, the wife of Senator Bill Nelson, a conservative Florida Democrat.

Clinton's prayer group was part of the Fellowship (or "the Family"), a network of sex-segregated cells of political, business, and military leaders dedicated to "spiritual war" on behalf of Christ, many of them recruited at the Fellowship's only public event, the annual National Prayer Breakfast. (Aside from the breakfast, the group has "made a fetish of being invisible," former Republican Senator William Armstrong has said.) The Fellowship believes that the elite win power by the will of God, who uses them for his purposes. Its mission is to help the powerful understand their role in God's plan.

***

Coe's friends include former Attorney General John Ashcroft, Reaganite Edwin Meese III, and ultraconservative Rep. Joe Pitts (R-Pa.). Under Coe's guidance, Meese has hosted weekly prayer breakfasts for politicians, businesspeople, and diplomats, and Pitts rose from obscurity to head the House Values Action Team, an off-the-record network of religious right groups and members of Congress created by Tom DeLay. The corresponding Senate Values Action Team is guided by another Coe protégé, Brownback, who also claims to have recruited King Abdullah of Jordan into a regular study of Jesus' teachings.

The Fellowship's long-term goal is "a leadership led by God—leaders of all levels of society who direct projects as they are led by the spirit." According to the Fellowship's archives, the spirit has in the past led its members in Congress to increase U.S. support for the Duvalier regime in Haiti and the Park dictatorship in South Korea. The Fellowship's God-led men have also included General Suharto of Indonesia; Honduran general and death squad organizer Gustavo Alvarez Martinez; a Deutsche Bank official disgraced by financial ties to Hitler; and dictator Siad Barre of Somalia, plus a list of other generals and dictators. Clinton, says Schenck, has become a regular visitor to Coe's Arlington, Virginia, headquarters, a former convent where Coe provides members of Congress with sex-segregated housing and spiritual guidance.

***

These days, Clinton has graduated from the political wives' group into what may be Coe's most elite cell, the weekly Senate Prayer Breakfast. Though weighted Republican, the breakfast—regularly attended by about 40 members—is a bipartisan opportunity for politicians to burnish their reputations, giving Clinton the chance to profess her faith with men such as Brownback as well as the twin terrors of Oklahoma, James Inhofe and Tom Coburn, and, until recently, former Senator George Allen (R-Va.). Democrats in the group include Arkansas Senator Mark Pryor, who told us that the separation of church and state has gone too far; Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.) is also a regular.

Unlikely partnerships have become a Clinton trademark. Some are symbolic, such as her support for a ban on flag burning with Senator Bob Bennett (R-Utah) and funding for research on the dangers of video games with Brownback and Santorum. But Clinton has also joined the gop on legislation that redefines social justice issues in terms of conservative morality, such as an anti-human-trafficking law that withheld funding from groups working on the sex trade if they didn't condemn prostitution in the proper terms. With Santorum, Clinton co-sponsored the Workplace Religious Freedom Act; she didn't back off even after Republican senators such as Pennsylvania's Arlen Specter pulled their names from the bill citing concerns that the measure would protect those refusing to perform key aspects of their jobs—say, pharmacists who won't fill birth control prescriptions, or police officers who won't guard abortion clinics.

Clinton has championed federal funding of faith-based social services, which she embraced years before George W. Bush did; Marci Hamilton, author of God vs. the Gavel, says that the Clintons' approach to faith-based initiatives "set the stage for Bush." Clinton has also long supported the Defense of Marriage Act, a measure that has become a purity test for any candidate wishing to avoid war with the Christian right.

Liberal rabbi Michael Lerner, whose "politics of meaning" Clinton made famous in a speech early in her White House tenure, sees the senator's ambivalence as both more and less than calculated opportunism. He believes she has genuine sympathy for liberal causes—rights for women, gays, immigrants—but often will not follow through. "There is something in her that pushes her toward caring about others, as long as there's no price to pay. But in politics, there is a price to pay."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[Pawel K]

171. I'm still waiting for that video. nt

[Pawel K]

175. Here are the transcripts from this segment from O'Reilly yesterday, wtf are you talking about?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,337891,00.html

I can not find anything about government creating aids to kill black people. I think someone got played for a fool. But again, the fact you idiots watch O'Reilly and actually believe him is no shock to me.

[AtomicKitten]

179. Well, at least you admit you're watching Faux News for your talking points.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

182. That is not an uncommonly held view...

in the black community here in SF, nor in the gay community. I personally don't believe it to be true, but I can't say I haven't wondered myself. Considering the long, ugly history of black oppression by whites, I can see why a community might think that. :shrug:

[IsItJustMe]

184. You are a Muster, aren't you. Have fun stirring up the pot of shit that you are preparing.

[ikojo]

188. There are many black activists who believe

AIDS was created by the CIA and also that the CIA brought cocaine into black neighborhoods in order to destabilize them.

When confronted with the history of the Tuskeegee experiments it's not too hard to believe the US government is capable of anything.

[Vinca]

190. Agreed, that sounds nuts, but apparently it's not an unusual belief in the

black community. They do, after all, have some history as it relates to the government and disease:

In 1932, the Public Health Service, working with the Tuskegee Institute, began a study to record the natural history of syphilis in hopes of justifying treatment programs for blacks. It was called the "Tuskegee Study of Untreated Syphilis in the Negro Male."

The study initially involved 600 black men – 399 with syphilis, 201 who did not have the disease. The study was conducted without the benefit of patients' informed consent. Researchers told the men they were being treated for "bad blood," a local term used to describe several ailments, including syphilis, anemia, and fatigue. In truth, they did not receive the proper treatment needed to cure their illness. In exchange for taking part in the study, the men received free medical exams, free meals, and burial insurance. Although originally projected to last 6 months, the study actually went on for 40 years.

http://www.cdc.gov/tuskegee/timeline.htm