Let's get ONE thing straight...I don't like obama

[Horse with no Name]

But I UNDERSTAND his appeal for many of you. I really do. I am cynical and I just don't buy the hype and there isn't any amount of arguing that will make me change my mind. I am a pretty darn good judge of character and that hardly fails me.
Other than a few obvious trolls, I wouldn't dream of threatening to throw you out of the party or off of this website or call you a republican.
Whether YOU like it or not, Hillary Clinton is a member in good standing of the Democratic Party and is running for the nomination.
Supporting her in this effort does NOT make anyone less of a Democrat or less of a progressive. You weaken your candidates peripheral support exponentially by attempting to demonize Democrats who are doing nothing except supporting a different Democrat.
Personally, I still hope in my heart that MY candidate re-enters the race and I STILL harbor hard feelings about how he was treated around here by members of BOTH camps.

[waiting for hope]

1. Amen.

:hug:

[Fresh_Start]

2. agree with you nt

nt

[Joe the Revelator]

3. She gave that up when she endorsed McCain and put herself above the party

No amount of PR will change that now.

[Horse with no Name]

4. That isn't what was said...but you know that

you are just intent on sowing the lies as truth.

[TML]

6. It is the truth

Endorsing a Republican candidate, especially the opposing candidate, is being a traitor to the Democratic party. It is what it is.

[Bigleaf]

57. Hey, you stole my avatar.

[TML]

107. Wait until I donate in a few weeks

I've got a chrome Leafs logo I'd like to use. :-)

[Mezzo]

74. Obama conjured harry and Louise...and that's as repig as you can get nt

[rodeodance]

96. Yes he did----

[TML]

108. It's only Repig

if it's a fallacy, and what was printed on that brochure was sourced.

[leftynyc]

119. Could you provide a link

where the word endorsed was used? If you cannot find one, please stop the lies. The truth is bad enough without the hysteria.

[UALRBSofL]

9. She never said she endorsed McCain

But Obama endorsed the practices of Reagan. That was the ultimate traitor when he said that.

[PVnRT]

59. Wrong

He said Reagan transformed politics, and he did; Obama didn't say it was positive.

[Mezzo]

76. you are a liar, plain and simple

and Obama said that Reagan was the only one with ideas. but you knew that.

[Joe the Revelator]

10. There is no lie to it. Its not like there is fideo of her doing it on three different occasions

No quarter for traitors.

[walldude]

12. I respect you. but it's you who is bending the truth

Yes she did not "directly" endorse McCain, but she did use a chance she had to denigrate him and pay compliment to her same side opponent to instead compliment the GOP candidate and denigrate the DEM candidate. There is no other way to spin it. Even if what she said was the truth she shouldn't have said it. It showed that she put her personal ambition before the needs of the country and the party. And there are many like me who supported her right up until that point. Many solid Dems were put off by what she said, and while you may nt think it was a big deal, to many of us it was, and she lost supporters because of it. Lots of supporters. How can you justify what she said if it cost her some of her supporters? Isn't the point here to beat McCain? Not only that but Hillary gave him a sound bite that he could use in the general campaign, and he could use it against her as well as Obama.

[40ozDonkey]

39. The ends justify the means....

"Now, I think you'll be able to imagine many things Senator McCain will be able to say. He's never been the president, but he will put forth his lifetime of experience. I will put forth my lifetime of experience. Senator Obama will put forth an speech he made in 2002."
-Hillary Clinton

That's Hillary Clinton emphasizing McCain's strengths over Obama's in order to make herself seem more electable to undecided Democrats.

It's also McCain's first campaign ad, going something along the lines of, "Even other DEMOCRATS think Obama is too inexperienced to lead this nation in a time of war!" Cue the clip with above quote, and McCain won't even have to pay somebody to say the line.

Good job.

[walldude]

48. Good job? you hate Obama so much that you'd rather have

McCain? You are right about one thing, that was Hillary emphasizing McCain's strengths over Obama's. But you are under the assumption that she is going o be the candidate. Seeing that she's behind right now, shooting the part in the foot to bolster your own agenda is pretty pathetic. Also you claim that it was a "good job". Well cnsidering that that statement lost her more support than gained her, I'd say it's a pretty piss poor way of running a campaign. How can you possibly justify a statement that lost your candidate support? I just don't get it.

[40ozDonkey]

82. Your post is hilarious as I was being sarcastic.

Thanks for that.

[stevenleser]

42. A member of her own campaign said her touting McCain over Obama was a mistake

you might have heard of him, Paul Begala.

[maddiejoan]

45. Paul Begala is not a member of her campaign

I wish he was.

[TahitiNut]

89. I don't know how else to 'parse' her comments.

"I have a lifetime of experience that I will bring to the White House. I know Senator McCain has a lifetime of experience to the White House. And Senator Obama has a speech he gave in 2002." (Hillary Clinton)

"I think you'll be able to imagine many things Senator McCain will be able to say. He’s never been the president, but he will put forth his lifetime of experience. I will put forth my lifetime of experience. Senator Obama will put forth a speech he made in 2002.” (Hillary Clinton)


That's clearer than her "health care plan." That's clearer than her "Iraq strategy." She's saying that she and McCain have the necessary background and Obama doesn't. She's saying that McCain is better than Obama. Period.

That's cancerous snark. Cancerous.

[Drachasor]

102. She said she and McCain passed the CinC test and implied Obama didn't -- Linked to story

How is that not endorsing McCain over Obama?

Her words: "I think it's imperative that each of us be able to demonstrate we can cross the commander-in-chief threshold, and I believe that I've done that. Certainly, Sen. McCain has done that, and you'll have to ask Sen. Obama with respect to his candidacy," she said during a meeting with military officers and other national security experts in Washington, which was convened to discuss her own readiness for the job and her plans for dealing with the war in Afghanistan."

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/03/06/739131.aspx

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

29. Ehhhh. Self Delete. The Mods Got Enough Work To Do. n/t

[SeaLyons]

64. That's absolutely untrue

why did you post that??? You know it's not true.

[Drachasor]

103. She said she and McCain passed the CinC test and implied Obama didn't -- Linked to story

How's that not endorsing McCain over Obama?

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/03/06/739131.aspx

[SeaLyons]

111. It's not an endorsement....

get real!!!

[Drachasor]

120. How does that not say McCain is more suited to be President than Obama?

[LanternWaste]

114. Or... rather than Obama making an implication...

"She said she and McCain passed the CinC test and implied Obama didn't -- "

Or... rather than Obama making an implication, it's just as valid to say you simply made an inference...

[Drachasor]

121. ?

Obama didn't make an implication. Hillary made an implication about Obama. She said that she and McCain passed the CinC test, and refused to say that Obama passed it (said you'd have to ask him). By that implication, she effectively endorses McCain over Obama by saying the former is ready for the presidency and the latter is not.

[Texas Hill Country]

116. dumb statement. that is not what she did.

[LittleClarkie]

5. Since when have progressives on this board supported Hillary in the first place

She's never been all that popular here, nor has the DLC.

[Horse with no Name]

13. Is this DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND?

Why yes...it is.
Is she a DEMOCRATIC candidate for President?
Why yes she is.
Whether you admit it during your waking hours...there is VERY little difference in the policies of the two.
Hell, I am NOT a fan of the DLC...and if you have time you can do a search and see that for yourself. I have been consistent.
However...I INITIALLY chose a PROGRESSIVE candidate...not one of the pre-packaged corporate Democrats that we have left to choose from.
Nit, pick, parse...whatever it takes to get you through the night...but for some reason you bought the hype of your candidate.
Fine. I didn't so where does that leave me? Voting for McCain isn't an option and the accusation is really getting quite old.

[LittleClarkie]

27. None of what you just wrote addresses the fact that before the primaries started

the more left leaning of this board, of which there were alot, were not terribly fond of Hillary Clinton. There were only a handful of centrist DUers who would stand up for her or the DLC. And I always stood up for their right to do so, as you are correct. This is the Democratic Underground and she is a Democrat.

But my point doesn't change. Why I support my own candidate, or how little you ever supported the DLC has nothing to do with how much support Hillary did, or did not, have on DU before the primaries.

So to say that supporting Hillary doesn't make one less of a progressive struck me as odd, since I didn't think very many progressives supported her in the first place.

Just means that her support tends to be more from the moderates, is all.

We don't have too many of those around here either, or didn't before the election.

[LostinVA]

63. Lots of progressive DUers support Hillary

Many of my Kucinich supporter friends on DU are now Hillary supporters.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

70. I don't believe you.

All the Kucinich supporters I know have gone for Obama.

[LostinVA]

73. Sapphocrat, BuffytheFundySlayer, Jamastine

Harvey Korman, and a few others I'm drawing a blank on. Sapphocrat doesn't post on here any longer, because of the sheer nastiness of some posters.

Those are just the ones I know well on here.

And, I'm a very progressive DUer.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

79. Okay, if you're being honest--and I assume you are--then I'll grant you there may be some. But . . .

I have to say I'm a little surprised to hear that Kucinich supporters would go for someone who voted for the war, takes money from lobbyists and PAC money, supports NAFTA, continually compliments Rethugs and even endorsed McLame over her Democratic opponent. . . Need I go on?

That just doesn't sound very progressive to me.

[lumberjack_jeff]

85. We find it equally vexing that other progressives have chosen a candidate...

... who won't have his picture taken with Gavin Newsome, has a Friedmanite University of Chicago Prof as his economic adviser and considers the optional nature of his "universal" health care plan a selling point.

Reasonable people can disagree.

[lumberjack_jeff]

83. Not accurate. n/t

[LanternWaste]

115. Except me...

Except me... this particular Kucinich supporter threw his in with Sen. Clinton two days prior to the Texas primary.

However, since I neither demonize nor deify either the candidates or their supporters, it probably means very little...

[JoFerret]

95. MANY progressives in fact

All politics is compromise. for this progressive Hillary is my current pick as our best chance to move forward on the issues I care about most.

[LostinVA]

112. EXACTLY how I feel and how I came to my choice: pragmatism

[mudesi]

87. They're conservatives

By definition, they are stubborn. They can't accept that Clinton has already lost.

[musicblind]

92. I am extremely liberal but support her. though I may be the minority.

[JoFerret]

93. Excellent question.

we are ALL democrats

[Andromeda]

51. Excuse me, but I've been here...

since Bush was selected by the Supreme Court and I take exception to you dismissing Hillary supporters like you do. I also have supported the Clintons through the Salem Witch Trials the Republicans put them (and the nation) through.

Sorry to burst your bubble, pookie, but Hillary is a progressive just as much as you are or anybody else on this board.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it!

[LittleClarkie]

52. I'm not dismissing them, just saying there weren't many of them on this board before the primaries

And she's really more of a centrist, I'd say.

[jillan]

97. Isn't Obama the unity candidate? That was one of the most divisive comments

I have read on DU.

This primary season has been eye opening . . .

[LittleClarkie]

110. Just reporting what I remember of DU before all hell broke loose.

Can you honestly say she was a popular person here before the primary season started?

I generally stood up for the right of her supporters to speak their mind, but often they seemed to be under siege with cries of "DLC! Repubican lite!" abounding.

You don't remember that? I do. Got accused more than once of being DLC because I stood up for their right to speak.

Or maybe I'm not understanding the sort of person who used to frequent this board before the primaries. Perhaps they were farther to the left than what we're talking about. That's possible.

[Pringles]

133. I don't see anyone on this board supporting a progressive.

Hillary and Obama are middle of the road, both of them, which is why neither can debate the issues and why both camps need to attack in other very unattractive ways. When you get down to it, there just isn't much of a difference. But to say that either is progressive is a farce.

[Colobo]

7. Viva Obama, Our Future Nominee.

[Bluebear]

25. Do you read ANYTHING or just cheerlead impulsively?

[LostinVA]

67. *spray*

:rofl:

[LostinVA]

68. Dupe

[Ronnie]

105. If he is,

he's going to need the votes of the Clinton supporters. You might want to tone down the invective a bit.

[Andy823]

8. I agree with you

Except that I don't like Hillary, but other than that I could not agree more. Nobody should be attacked simply because they do not agree with another persons choice. I also think the attacks that go on her daily do nothing to help the candidates, and it makes the supporters look bad.

I too wish Edwards was till in the race, I think he would have been the nominee, but I can't change that. He is still the number one candidate in my book! :thumbsup:

[Johnny__Motown]

11. Good standing? character?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZsYWiywdCA&feature=related



Someone has not been paying attention

[uponit7771]

17. Her hailing McCaints traits to lift her own was heartbreaking to me

[question everything]

60. It is a fact that when it comes to being a commander in chief, McCain is the most

qualified thanks to his military background.

That alone, however, is not enough for someone to become a president, as we saw too painfully in 2004.

Thus, the role of our nominee - whoever s/he is - to convince the voters on this point. It will be stupid and will remove all credibility for our nominee to ignore this fact about McCain.

[dysfunctional press]

14. and i don't like hillary.

but i DON'T understand her appeal for many of you. because she is HEAVILY affiliated with the dlc, voted for the iwr, and threw a fellow democrat under the bus in favour of john mccain, there isn't any amount of arguing that will make me change my mind.
Whether YOU like it or not, Barack Obama is a member in good standing of the Democratic Party and is running for the nomination.
Supporting him in this effort does NOT make anyone less of a Democrat or less of a progressive.

[Horse with no Name]

19. And you will not have an argument from me about that

I don't buy what he is selling.
I have never said that you should be kicked out of the party for supporting him.

[uponit7771]

24. K, but Hillary has been real & said today Iraqis should be thankful for the "freedom" we've ...

...brought them...but this is after voting for the Iraq war because "she didn't read it..."?!?!??!

Come on...

[dysfunctional press]

34. and i've never said that anyone should be kicked out for supporting hillary...

although i could understand the argument that some would have for bouncing hillary herself, considering the way she threw the probable nominee under the bus in favour of the republican nominee.

[uponit7771]

20. I don't understand why Hillary supporters believe Iraqis should be thank for the 'freedom' we brough

...brought them according to Hillary.

There's things Hillary has done that makes one question her critical thinking ability

[Fox Mulder]

81. Agreed.

[Double T]

15. obama is the QUESTION, certainly NOT the ANSWER.

The 'good ol' boys' have REALLY screwed IT up; time to see if a brilliant, reasoned lady can straighten out the horrible mess the boyz have made.

[Fresh_Start]

18. many of us do not want either Obama or Clinton

we'd like a better candidate who is putting the country ahead of their own ambition.
Right about now, I'd rather have the President drawn by lottery from all of my countrymen rather than any of the candidates left in the race in any party

[ProgressIn2008]

22. You said it. Dude, let's get an actual yellow dog instead. I'm about at that point.

Go dog go!

[Double T]

26. Agreed. But guys like Edwards and Kucinich as well as others...........

couldn't go the distance. I can NOT imagine a President mccain or obama; it would be like exchanging trouble for MORE trouble. Who wants or needs IT.

[vanboggie]

37. Edwards didn't have a chance

Not with the media shutting him out. His support was growing when whatever or whoever happened that made him suddenly drop out. I still think that was an underhanded deal. He was by far our best candidate. With so many Dems feeling apathetic with the sorry choices we have left, it's going to be difficult to beat McCain for godsakes - and would be even if the machines weren't already rigged.

[Fresh_Start]

40. I'm not sure he was our best...however, I did vote for him

because he was willing to tackle the issue which I thought was the most important for the country

[vanboggie]

33. Amen to that

I'll show up in the GE to vote for the dem, but I don't give a rip about working for any of them this time around. It's the first time in my life I haven't been able to put my heart into actively supporting our candidate.

[uponit7771]

16. She hailed McCaints traits over Obamas in order to lift herself, I don't see that as good charater

[Skip Intro]

21. Yes! Thanks.

btw, I saw the attacks on Edwards here, for the most part, to be of no substance. I personally don't think I ever said anything against Edwards. I like Edwards. He coudln't get his message across. I didn't like him when he went negative for a bit. But he would have made a great president.

I don't understand the Obama appeal. The guy's transparent. Hype.


"attempting to demonize Democrats who are doing nothing except supporting a different Democrat."

Lot of that about.


Great post, man.

[NDambi]

23. Yeah Yeah

[boppers]

28. "there isn't any amount of arguing that will make me change my mind"...

Hm. Sounds like you're a true believer, then. I dunno what in, but if logic no longer enters the picture... :shrug:

[Horse with no Name]

31. Seriously

Do you *REALLY* believe you are going to change ANYONE'S mind at this point?

[Cha]

30. Don't tell me you're a good judge of character

when you buy hilary clinton's lies. You just think you are.

[Bluebear]

41. How on earth does that answer the OP?

[last1standing]

32. I would never suggest that Clinton supporters don't belong in the party.

I do question the Clinton campaigns tactics and even ethics, but I know a lot of very good people support her and I support them and their choice. If I didn't feel so strongly about Clinton's techniques and her drive to dump Dean from the DNC I would probably be supporting her myself.

As for your comment about Edwards, I agree with that completely. He was the only candidate able to keep the campaigns focused on actual issues and now he's gone. We lost a great contender and a good man at the same time.

[IndependentDem]

35. good enough. there is nothing wrong with disagreeing! as long as your not disagreeable. n/t

[Paulie]

36. How about this argument?

"And I believe that at the same time that we have to make clear to the Iraqis that they have been given the greatest gift that a human being can give another human being – the gift of freedom. And it is up to them to decide how they will use that precious gift that has been paid for with the blood and sacrifice and treasure of the United States of America. "



I'm not even an Obama supporter, but this is pushing me that way.

[LostinVA]

71. Obama consistently votes to fund the war

They're both guilty.

[Paulie]

80. She voted for the blank check

She also made that damnable quote!

[rodeodance]

38. amen . thank you.

[Teaser]

43. Good for you. Everyone should support the candidate they like

.

[goldcanyonaz]

44. Amen!

:applause:

[Andromeda]

46. Not by me, Horse,

John Edwards was my second choice. I always looked at him as an honorable candidate, standing on his principles, not wavering and not taking gratuitous cheap-shots at his rivals (not much anyway).

It was terrible the way he was treated by the MSM and it was clear that he was marginalized by some media pundits.

It was our loss that he quit the race but he gained more by bowing out so he could spend more time with his family. Elizabeth was a trooper with more strength than 10 women that never had to deal with cancer.

I really miss him.

[MzShellG]

47. I hear ya...Why don't you like Barack, though?

He and John are friends, they were just competing for the same title. I wouldv'e preferred him running against Barack because even if my guy lost, my other guy would've won.

[KittyWampus]

49. To say Clintons aren't destroying the Democratic Party and didn't allow the Dem party

infrastructure to rot and decay under their watch is to be totally uniformed.

She is NOT a member of good standing and your inability to recognize the reality of what is transpiring is disgusting.

Who the fuck cares what you think? Just because your candidate couldn't end up being a serious contender, you decide to give Hillary a pass. It helps you feel better.

History will prove just how Hillary's and those willing to make excuses for her were supporters were traitors to the cause of democracy.

[FredScuttle]

50. No Democrat condones, let alone encourages, racist attacks

I never supported Hillary, but I did not commit to the Obama campaign until she sent out Geraldine Ferraro to deliver an insulting attack on Obama. That alone drove me over to the Obama campaign. Hillary and her campaign can go fuck themselves.

[waiting for hope]

54. How do you know she sent

Ferraro to deliver that message? Geraldine Ferraro has always been an outspoken person - have you never seen her on Crossfire?

[Dan]

53. ...smile, I don't like fighting....

and my personal opinion is any democratic candidate is better than anything that the GOP is going to offer. And, I would like the Dem's to win in November (the Senate, the House and the White House) plus as many state positions as possible. But a house divided will not stand - I wish the two presidential candidates would sit down - and quit the attacks against each other. Our target is the GOP, not each other.

If we must discuss our candidates (and they are good people; we just tend to forget that politics tends to be a contact sport, but no reason to hurt our own) I would like there to be a discussion like we used to do in school. Compare and contrast - by position - without the attacks.

What is ?'s position on Global Warming and how does this compare to ?'s position, and then how does each position compare to our GOP friend? Nothing personal, just statements of facts without creating an artificial straw-man that attacks the person.

What is ?'s position on putting America back to work and how does this compare to ?'s position, and how does this position compare to our GOP friend?

I guess that would be the way I would choose to discuss the issues... ;)

[Ugnmoose]

55. Could not have said it any better

And by the way, I believe that John Edwards would counsel us to do the same.

[question everything]

56. I don't have anything against Obama

but the savage reactions of his supporters here, and the way Newsweek and MSNBC have been tarring and feathering Clinton while never questioning anything about Obama turned me away from him.

And, yes, you can almost blame the Obama supporters for the quick fall of Edwards, who was my candidate since 2004. Both Edwards and Clinton offered specific ideas and policies. Can you say boring?

But Obama created, what was it, something crawled up Matthews' leg? And all of a sudden, reporters who are expected to look at facts, just melt away.

[LostinVA]

58. Good post -- K&R!

[RestoreGore]

61. Thank you. And I miss that candidate you refer to.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

62. well said!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

65. Feel better?

[SammyWinstonJack]

78. ...

:eyes:

[theredpen]

66. Your preference is perfectly rational and understandable

But from a rational standpoint, she can't win the nomination.

Maybe supporting a candidate who can't win doesn't make you less of a Democrat or a progressive, but there's a certain lack of credibility that comes with tilting at windmills.

[AJH032]

69. thank you

good to see reasonable people here.

[eleny]

72. ...

[EFerrari]

75. I don't favor Obama as a policy maker.

And the gutter sniping from the Clinton campaign has turned my stomach. I've come to admire him to a degree for the way he and his organization has handled some of the lowest cr@p I've ever seen from a Democratic campaign.

I could never support him as I could support Dennis. Or, as I tried to support Edwards. For liberals these days, that's just the way things go. But today is a good example of how Obama handles smears. He did credit to himself, to his campaign, to the party and to the nation. Not bad for a centrist.

[SammyWinstonJack]

77. !!!

:thumbsup: Everything you said! :applause:

[indimuse]

84. K&R

Good post...agreed.

[mudesi]

86. It's OK to dislike him. BUT RECOGNIZE THAT HE WON.

Accept that he has taken the nomination. The rest of us had to accept that our candidates didn't make it, why cant Clinton supporters do the same?

[goletian]

88. youre supporting a democrat that supports a republican, thats the problem... - nt

[surfermaw]

90. Way to go Horse with no name

I don't dislike Obama,but I am Edwards all the way, and remember when the only thing they could find on him was a 400 dollar haircut for a man that could afford to pay 400 dollars to get someone to come cut his hair.

[BringBigDogBack]

91. Get used to it,

November is right around the corner.

[LWolf]

94. Are you thinking of a brokered convention?

How would he "re-enter?"

I would gladly welcome him.

[tippytoe]

98. Edwards was the best

The best of the best in the pack. Kucinich was second.

[usregimechange]

99. If more of all of us would act like you, it wouldn't happen near as much, kuddos

[RBInMaine]

100. I have fought like hell for the Clintons in the past, but their tactics of late SUCK !!

[TriMetFan]

101. Great Post.

:toast: :dem:

[JoFerret]

104. He has made the best speech on race since Bill Clinton

.

[stop the bleeding]

106. Good post

K&R

[Nutmegger]

109. I can't recommend, but I can still kick this.

:kick:

[Political Heretic]

113. She has chosen to put personal ego above the interest of party, public or nation

And that's where I have to draw the line.

She has no hope of winning the nomination. But she stays in because if she can't have the presidency she'll damn sure do everything she can to make sure no other democrat can either.

[mattclearing]

117. Obama people aren't going after Hillary supporters because they support Hillary.

We're going after people who say ridiculous things about Obama or refuse to acknowledge Hill's own inconsistencies. That seems fair to me.

There are a lot of people on this board on both sides that are incapable of seeing their candidates' flaws or saying even anything nice about them.

I don't think that kind of mindless devotion has any place on DU and I have no problems letting people hear about it.

[Horse with no Name]

122. Patently untrue

if not an outright lie.

[mattclearing]

126. No, an outright lie would be Hillary Clinton telling people she was secretly against NAFTA

and then her schedule proving that she lobbied people to vote for it. That would be a lie.

[futureliveshere]

118. Missing the point!!

Many of you are arguing who has the better policies and hence will make the better president. What you are missing out on is that on most policy positions BO and HRC are almost identical. HRC initially voted for the war and NAFTA but has now come around to BO's side, BO talks about almost achieving UHC but concedes that this is a work-in-progress and his ultimate goal is Universal Health Care, a la Hillary. On all other topics they are nearly identical. So policy SHOULD not be the criteria of decision making or differentiation.

It should be the ability to put those policy proposals into ACTION. This according to me is a key ability. HRC would make a great Senate Head or Speaker of the House, but to be President i.e. team captain you need something more. That something more is 'the ability to inspire and work together in teams to achieve a COMMON goal'!! HRC has shown in the past that she is very hardworking as long as everyone is working towards HER goal. She has shown a remarkable paucity in achievements that involve both sides of the aisle. BO on the other hand has legislation sponsored and passed which involved gathering support from Repubs and Dems. HRC is a great details person and will make an outstanding Headmistress, but BO has a vision, a dream if you will, of bringing people together and achieving all those policy outcomes.

So vote with this thought in mind please. Both are great candidates, but BO will bring the parties together and inspire those fuddy-duddies in Congress to achieve some useful legislation. HRC will focus on her own agenda (which though admirable) will only cause the Repubs to refuse to play ball and will achieve very little if President.

edited for a small grammatical error.

[Horse with no Name]

123. It takes more than pretty words to inspire me

Sorry, I am not that shallow.

[SammyWinstonJack]

124. ...

:thumbsup:

[VotesForWomen]

125. thank you. nt

[ksquire]

127. 1) I respect your candidate immensely. 2) can i buy you ...

a copy of dreams of my father and / or audacity of hope? i think you'll find many of his experiences, views, and orientations line up pretty well with many of Edwards.

In particular, his background as a community organizer was similar.

I hope you saw that the issue of class and anti-corporatism was *clearly* evident in his speech the other night.

And, I've said it a lot but in case you missed it, I *really* miss the effect of Edwards on this race. He kept turning it toward the issues that really matter, and I think the country is worse off for his being gone. I miss him immensely and hope he maintains a prominent role in the next democratic government.

[Horse with no Name]

131. 1. Thank you. 2. No thank you.

But a very generous offer. I decline it in the most sincere form that it was offered in.

[mythyc]

128. good discussion in this post,

and i appreciate how well-rounded you frame the point in the larger context and greater good.

not too keen in how the title sets it up, but i've been guilty of worse

[Hutzpa]

129. You seem bitter

I am an official member of the "I don't give a flying fuck" party.
I renounce the Democratic Party and all that they have come to stand for--although it IS difficult to stand without a spine.

psst....thats from your comment in your profile very telling wouldn't you say, you come across as someone who missed out on being loved by their parents hence the deeper bitterness.

This is an opportunity to expose yourself, well your conscience must have beaten you in such
a way that you just can't hold it within.....your conscience does that to you sometimes.

Good job in outing yourself.

[Horse with no Name]

130. Try again Freud

although you do seem to be an ass--something Freud was quite obsessed with.

[JoFerret]

132. Well said

The ongoing "trash Hillary" threads are creepy. It's not about political preferences but how to tear people down who have the temerity to disagree. Like you I have serious reservations about Obama although of course I will support the democratic nominee. I have VERY serious reservations for many Obama followers on this board. All the Obama supporters I know in real life are thoroughly decent people. I wish the same could be said of the extremists on DU some of whom seem ready to toss democracy aside and proceed directly to the canonization ceremony - trampling all else in their wake with their contempt and superiority. I too truly understand the appeal. Holds out wonderful promise.But the heightened hype is beyond common sense. And fortunately in this world not everyone sees everything the same way. And like you - I miss Edwards.