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sloppyjoe25s Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 04:22 PM
Original message
Understanding Context - The Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment
Edited on Thu Mar-20-08 04:31 PM by sloppyjoe25s
Please K&R this important issue:

Many right wing, MSM, or otherwise "anti-Obama" commentators have recently piled on to the sound bites of speeches by
reverend Jeremiah Wright, Mr. Obama's Pastor.

Many have focussed on a suggestion, made by Pastor Wright - that the US Government cares less about the plight of African Americans with AIDS and HIV - than it does about white Americans. Pastor Wright did NOT say that the US Goverment "created" AIDS, but many white commentators --- NOTABLY TUCKER CARLSON of MSNBC --- went to great lengths to say that "this statement simply cannot be put in context - it is so radical, so extreme and ridiculous, there is simply no way to put it in context."

This statement - by Tucker Carlson and other commentators - displays a shocking ignorance of AMERICAN HISTORY - Specifically of the Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment - a disgusting, racist, shocking program supported by no less than the Surgeon General of the United States of America - to systematically deny treatment for Syphilis to poor blacks in Alabama over a period of nearly forty years.

So - the next time you hear some fucking moron - claiming that all of Pastor Wrights comments are "totally absurd" or "radical" and "cannot be put in context" - remind that fucking DUMB ASS PIECE OF SHIT COMMENTATOR - about the RAW TRUTH of what HAS BEEN DONE to blacks - IN THIS CENTURY -- BY THE US GOVERNMENT. And tell their dumb fuck ass that When black people hear that the US Government may not be treating their afflication with a disease like HIV/AIDS as seriously as it should - THAT IT IS NOT A FUCKING RADICAL STATEMENT AT ALL - IT IS PRETTY GOD DAMNED FUCKING CLOSE TO THE TRUTH.

Tucker Carlson - you privileged white male - learn some FUCKING HISTORY - before you open your ignorant mouth again.

*****************************************************

The Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment
=================================

The United States government did something that was wrong—deeply, profoundly, morally wrong. It was an outrage to our commitment to integrity and equality for all our citizens. . . . clearly racist.
—President Clinton's apology for the Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment to the eight remaining survivors, May 16, 1997

For forty years between 1932 and 1972, the U.S. Public Health Service (PHS) conducted an experiment on 399 black men in the late stages of syphilis. These men, for the most part illiterate sharecroppers from one of the poorest counties in Alabama, were never told what disease they were suffering from or of its seriousness. Informed that they were being treated for “bad blood,”1 their doctors had no intention of curing them of syphilis at all. The data for the experiment was to be collected from autopsies of the men, and they were thus deliberately left to degenerate under the ravages of tertiary syphilis—which can include tumors, heart disease, paralysis, blindness, insanity, and death. “As I see it,” one of the doctors involved explained, “we have no further interest in these patients until they die.”

Using Human Beings as Laboratory Animals
=========================================
The true nature of the experiment had to be kept from the subjects to ensure their cooperation. The sharecroppers' grossly disadvantaged lot in life made them easy to manipulate. Pleased at the prospect of free medical care—almost none of them had ever seen a doctor before—these unsophisticated and trusting men became the pawns in what James Jones, author of the excellent history on the subject, Bad Blood, identified as “the longest nontherapeutic experiment on human beings in medical history.”

The study was meant to discover how syphilis affected blacks as opposed to whites—the theory being that whites experienced more neurological complications from syphilis whereas blacks were more susceptible to cardiovascular damage. How this knowledge would have changed clinical treatment of syphilis is uncertain. Although the PHS touted the study as one of great scientific merit, from the outset its actual benefits were hazy. It took almost forty years before someone involved in the study took a hard and honest look at the end results, reporting that “nothing learned will prevent, find, or cure a single case of infectious syphilis or bring us closer to our basic mission of controlling venereal disease in the United States.” When the experiment was brought to the attention of the media in 1972, news anchor Harry Reasoner described it as an experiment that “used human beings as laboratory animals in a long and inefficient study of how long it takes syphilis to kill someone.”

A Heavy Price in the Name of Bad Science
=========================================
By the end of the experiment, 28 of the men had died directly of syphilis, 100 were dead of related complications, 40 of their wives had been infected, and 19 of their children had been born with congenital syphilis. How had these men been induced to endure a fatal disease in the name of science? To persuade the community to support the experiment, one of the original doctors admitted it “was necessary to carry on this study under the guise of a demonstration and provide treatment.” At first, the men were prescribed the syphilis remedies of the day—bismuth, neoarsphenamine, and mercury—but in such small amounts that only 3 percent showed any improvement. These token doses of medicine were good public relations and did not interfere with the true aims of the study. Eventually, all syphilis treatment was replaced with “pink medicine”—aspirin. To ensure that the men would show up for a painful and potentially dangerous spinal tap, the PHS doctors misled them with a letter full of promotional hype: “Last Chance for Special Free Treatment.” The fact that autopsies would eventually be required was also concealed. As a doctor explained, “If the colored population becomes aware that accepting free hospital care means a post-mortem, every darky will leave Macon County…” Even the Surgeon General of the United States participated in enticing the men to remain in the experiment, sending them certificates of appreciation after 25 years in the study.

Following Doctors' Orders
=========================
It takes little imagination to ascribe racist attitudes to the white government officials who ran the experiment, but what can one make of the numerous African Americans who collaborated with them? The experiment's name comes from the Tuskegee Institute, the black university founded by Booker T. Washington. Its affiliated hospital lent the PHS its medical facilities for the study, and other predominantly black institutions as well as local black doctors also participated. A black nurse, Eunice Rivers, was a central figure in the experiment for most of its forty years. The promise of recognition by a prestigious government agency may have obscured the troubling aspects of the study for some. A Tuskegee doctor, for example, praised “the educational advantages offered our interns and nurses as well as the added standing it will give the hospital.” Nurse Rivers explained her role as one of passive obedience: “we were taught that we never diagnosed, we never prescribed; we followed the doctor's instructions!” It is clear that the men in the experiment trusted her and that she sincerely cared about their well-being, but her unquestioning submission to authority eclipsed her moral judgment. Even after the experiment was exposed to public scrutiny, she genuinely felt nothing ethical had been amiss.

One of the most chilling aspects of the experiment was how zealously the PHS kept these men from receiving treatment. When several nationwide campaigns to eradicate venereal disease came to Macon County, the men were prevented from participating. Even when penicillin was discovered in the 1940s—the first real cure for syphilis—the Tuskegee men were deliberately denied the medication. During World War II, 250 of the men registered for the draft and were consequently ordered to get treatment for syphilis, only to have the PHS exempt them. Pleased at their success, the PHS representative announced: “So far, we are keeping the known positive patients from getting treatment.” The experiment continued in spite of the Henderson Act (1943), a public health law requiring testing and treatment for venereal disease, and in spite of the World Health Organization's Declaration of Helsinki (1964), which specified that “informed consent” was needed for experiment involving human beings.

Blowing the Whistle
===================
The story finally broke in the Washington Star on July 25, 1972, in an article by Jean Heller of the Associated Press. Her source was Peter Buxtun, a former PHS venereal disease interviewer and one of the few whistle blowers over the years. The PHS, however, remained unrepentant, claiming the men had been “volunteers” and “were always happy to see the doctors,” and an Alabama state health officer who had been involved claimed “somebody is trying to make a mountain out of a molehill.”

Under the glare of publicity, the government ended their experiment, and for the first time provided the men with effective medical treatment for syphilis. Fred Gray, a lawyer who had previously defended Rosa Parks and Martin Luther King, filed a class action suit that provided a $10 million out-of-court settlement for the men and their families. Gray, however, named only whites and white organizations in the suit, portraying Tuskegee as a black and white case when it was in fact more complex than that—black doctors and institutions had been involved from beginning to end.

The PHS did not accept the media's comparison of Tuskegee with the appalling experiments performed by Nazi doctors on their Jewish victims during World War II. Yet in addition to the medical and racist parallels, the PHS offered the same morally bankrupt defense offered at the Nuremberg trials: they claimed they were just carrying out orders, mere cogs in the wheel of the PHS bureaucracy, exempt from personal responsibility.

The study's other justification—for the greater good of science—is equally spurious. Scientific protocol had been shoddy from the start. Since the men had in fact received some medication for syphilis in the beginning of the study, however inadequate, it thereby corrupted the outcome of a study of “untreated syphilis.”

In 1990, a survey found that 10 percent of African Americans believed that the U.S. government created AIDS as a plot to exterminate blacks, and another 20 percent could not rule out the possibility that this might be true. As preposterous and paranoid as this may sound, at one time the Tuskegee experiment must have seemed equally farfetched. Who could imagine the government, all the way up to the Surgeon General of the United States, deliberately allowing a group of its citizens to die from a terrible disease for the sake of an ill-conceived experiment? In light of this and many other shameful episodes in our history, African Americans' widespread mistrust of the government and white society in general should not be a surprise to anyone. —BB

1. All quotations in the article are from Bad Blood: The Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment, James H. Jones, expanded edition (New York: Free Press, 1993).

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0762136.html
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sloppyjoe25s Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
1. Please Contact MSM using this info
To Call on the MSM to Re-Examine the Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment.

And to re-examine the perspectives of American blacks as to the justices and injustices of this nation.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5171221

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better tomorrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. there was a discussion of this last night in the threads. Consider this info, too....
http://www.boydgraves.com/timeline/

History of the Development of Aids....it will blow your mind....I think this deserves its own thread
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malik flavors Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
2. It is amazing they call Rev. Wright looney, when these sorts of things have actually happened before
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sloppyjoe25s Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Exactly... much of what Wright said was poorly worded
and inflammatory - but the basic substance is actually not unreasonable.
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. No, it hasn't happened before.
The accusation is that the government CREATED HIV for the purpose of killing black people.

The Tuskegee experiment, as immoral as it was, was NOT the creation of siphylis. Nor did the government infect the subjects. It just didn't TREAT the subjects.

It's nothing at all like Wright's silly, baseless charge.
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sloppyjoe25s Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Wright did not say the govt created it
He said that they have not cared as much about treating it or eradicating it among blacks.

Basically a true statement.

The fundamental point though is that even if he said "George Bush Personally Created HIV/AIDS" - that is not such a
radical statement, when taken from the perspective of real American history - as it has been lived by Blacks.


These idiotic statments to try to paint Wright as a radical are disgusting.
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. 'The government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color'
Edited on Thu Mar-20-08 04:45 PM by MethuenProgressive
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better tomorrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #10
28. again at the risk of posting....read this please....
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. Yes, he did say it.
Edited on Thu Mar-20-08 04:46 PM by MonkeyFunk
But the truth doesn't bolster your argument, does it?
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tokenlib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 04:37 PM
Response to Original message
6. YOU AMERICA HATER!! The truth about our history? How dare you!! n/t
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
7. So you say it is true our Government invented HIV to commit genocide on people of color?
Edited on Thu Mar-20-08 04:39 PM by MethuenProgressive
Link?
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sloppyjoe25s Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. If you are unable to read
I am not going to help you.

Wright did not say that.

But even if he had said "George Bush Personally Invented AIDS to kill blacks"

It would not be nearly as radical a statement from the true, real, lived perspective of history of how whites - and the government have treated blacks in this country.

And we are not talking about ancient history, the civil war, or even slavery.

We are talking about something that went on - with the support of the Surgeon General of the United States till 1972.

In the same way - US Bases in Saudi Arabia, the funding and supply of weapons to Osama Bin Laden to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan, the overthrow by the CIA of the democratically elected ruler of Iran to install the Shah - actually did contribute to the hatred against the US in the middle east - that motivated the September 11th attacks.

Of course these are not complete explanations - and the full view that AIDS is created by the government is false - and it is false that US Policy alone caused September 11th. Pastor Wrights words went too far.

But to try to label him as a crank and a radical is disgusting and distorting - and in the case of the AIDS comments shows a total lack of understanding of US History.
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. "Wright did not say that." Yes, sloppyjoe, he did.
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sloppyjoe25s Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. And the point is - it's not such a radical statement
To black Americans.

and it can be perfectly well put into a context where it does not seem far fetched at all.

The simple fact is that white americans get far better treatment, and prevention of AIDS/HIV to this day in the United States of America.

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better tomorrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
8. History of Dev. of Aids (Cliff Notes version)

These are just snippets of the entire article http://www.boydgraves.com/timeline/

In 1921, lead eugenics philosopher, Betrand Russell, publicly supported the “necessity for “organized” plagues” against the Black population.

In 1931, we secretly tested African Americans and we tested AIDS in sheep.


In 1921, lead eugenics philosopher, Betrand Russell, publicly supported the “necessity for “organized” plagues” against the Black population.

In 1931, we secretly tested African Americans and we tested AIDS in sheep.

In 1957, future U.S. president, Rep Gerald Ford and others gave the U.S. Pentagon permission to aggressively deploy offensive biological agents. There are no recorded cases of AIDS prior to the 1957 creation of “Special Operation-X.” (The SOX) program served as the immediate prototype program for the Special Virus program to begin in 1962.


Progress Report #8 at 273 - 286 proves we gave AIDS to monkeys. Since 1962, the United States and Dr. Robert Gallo have been inoculating monkeys and re-releasing them back into the wild. Thus, even government scientists are baffled that both HIV-1 and HIV-II would “suddenly emerge” from two distinct monkey ancestral relatives during the last 100 years. A 1999 Japanese study will ultimately prove the Man to Monkey origin of Monkey AIDS. The monkey experiments summary definitively proves Monkey AIDS is also man-made.

Suddenly, just as President Nixon had predicted, there was explosive death. On November 4, 1999, the U.S. White House announced,.... “Within a period as short as five years, all new infections of HIV in the United States will be African American....” At some point our experts must be allowed to begin the interface process of allowing the history of this virus program to count. It is ludicrous and preposterous to fail to review the U.S. virus program in which to elucidate the etiology of AIDS.


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better tomorrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. PL91-213
On March 16, 1970, following significant world events both in medicine and politics, President Richard Milhouse Nixon signed into law the U.S. policy to protect America's future by "stabilizing" the population of Sub-Sahara Africa. The history leading to the politics is relevant in our further presentation of the "research logic" Flow Chart of the federal virus program.

On April 4, 1969, President Richard Nixon did not want to be late. He had been there many times before, but today was special. He wanted the scientific and medical communities from around the world to hear and see his presence as our military scientists and doctors announced, 'they could effectively make AIDS.' It was Fort Detrick, Maryland and the ethnic nature of the work would not be printed until November '70.

http://www.gene.ch/gentech/2001/Mar/msg00049.html
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sloppyjoe25s Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. these are great additions - thanks!
very eye opening reading...

It's as important to not let the Black Church and/or Reverend Wright get swift boated as it is to not
let Obama get swift boated.

To think what is said on a daily basis by the evangelical focus on the family types - without so much as a peep from the MSM.
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better tomorrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. doesn't it just irk you what our government may have pulled over on us.....almost
as much as HAARP and weather modification.....I hope this thread starts a discussion....

hmmm, time for me to make a YouTube video on this I guess....
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DURHAM D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #11
22. Oh dear - you can't be serious. Total bunk.
Just for the record - Ziggy Brezeinski (Obama's top foreign policy advisor) is quoted in that piece of garbage.
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better tomorrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #22
29. what are you...one of the crowd put out there to jump the shark?
I'll stick to the investigation and the lawsuit against the USA, not that the packed court will ever hear it....at least they found the missing pages in 1999...
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
13. Nominated.
Thank you.
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better tomorrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
17. KICK!!!!!!
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Texas Hill Country Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
20. eveyone knows this shit happened... but it wasnt AIDS>
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sloppyjoe25s Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. That's not the point - the point is
whether or not from a black perspective - in context of real history - such statements are radical.

They are not.

It is easy for whites to think alot of things are "radical"

Hence the central premise of Baracks incredible speech - that we have to UNDERSTAND the perspectives and the
real grievences on both sides of the racial divide - talk about them IN POLITE COMPANY

in order to be able to work together for progress.

Which is why the attempts to smear Rev. Wrights comments as "radical" and "absurd" are disgusting, and represent a
politically motivated form of cynicism that is as transparent as it is totally useless to solving the problems of our country.
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better tomorrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. But, THIS was.....aids.....
http://www.boydgraves.com/timeline/ Read it and you might actually learn something....
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bcoylepa Donating Member (438 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
21. many minority communities
do not trust the Health Department - with good reason as Tuskegee taught them

I worked for years on HIV Prevention and many many communities of color believed it was the government that started introducing HIV into their community
now you can say that's crazy or you can try to understand where its coming from
truth to power
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sloppyjoe25s Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. EXACTLY
It is about the perspective - of real average black americans.

In whose eyes this is not a "radical" statement at all.

It is not correct - but that is not the point.

It is the same reason we need to treat seriously the "racial grievances" of working class whites - as Obama did in his speech, who
see danger and unfairness in affirmative action.

It is only by following Obama's path that we make progress on these issues.

The attempts to portray Wrights comments as "so radical they cannot be put in context"

is FUCKING idiotic - and is exacly the type of politically motivated bull that will prevent real progress.

It is the politics of "anything goes to win"

It is disgusting - and as Obama is showing - America is better than that!!!
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better tomorrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. truth to power....yes, read my link....
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DURHAM D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #26
31. The way you are pushing that piece of shit it makes me think you wrote it.
Its absolute garbage. You have too many obvious mistakes to even worry about the details.
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
27. I'm frankly puzzled by this, as far as the AIDS argument goes...
wouldn't it be more accurate to say the government ignored it to kill gay men more than blacks? Granted, I was a child during the 1980s, but HIV/AIDS was always called "the gay disease", not "the black disease".

I'm not saying the distrust shown by Rev. Wright isn't justified, but that also doesn't mean that he's right either. The syphilis experiments were horrible, and the government, if they could do something like create a disease back in the 1950s or something to kill black people, then they would have done it. But the fact is that they didn't have the technology back then.
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better tomorrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. maybe we need to forget Tuskegee and concentrate on
The Special Virus Programs of past Administrations....
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #30
34. The problem is that none of those programs would predate 1978...
it wasn't until then that scientists discovered the enzymes needed to cut the DNA strand in the first place. In other words, recombinant genetic manipulation wasn't possible before at least 1978. AIDS had already claimed quite a few victims before then.
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sloppyjoe25s Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #27
32. absolutely he is not right...
he's Wright... sorry - couldn't help that.. ;)

no - of course he is incorrect. But as you point out - the distrust is real, and is based on reality - it is precisely why the statement is not "radical" and neither is Reverend Wright.

i happen to think the point you make about gays is also likely to resonate in that community - and probably with justification as well.
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. Yes, the distrust is real, and well earned, however....
while I don't expect Rev. Wright to be an expert on genetics, genetic manipulation, or pathology, there are limits to reasonable distrust that fall into nutty territory. This claim is on par with blaming the Tunguska explosion on a secret A-Bomb test by the Czar of Russia. It simply breaks with critical thinking.

Not to mention that blacks aren't the only people that are infected or get sick from HIV/AIDS. If the virus was designed for such a specific purpose, then it should only infect one race, should it not? Healthy paranoia is fine, but when getting into territory like this, it becomes counterproductive and destroys one's own credibility.
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Lochloosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
33. Thanks for the ammo.
I know a few people that need to read this.
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