He did NOT throw his grandmother under the bus.....

[malta blue]

He spoke the truth, however ugly it may be to some people.

I can relate to his comments. My grandmother came to the US in 1941 and was a VERY WHITE hispanic woman. In her native country, racism was commonplace.

I cringed everytime she made a comment about black people - but guess what, she never said a word when I came home with a black boyfriend. And she welcomed all of my black friends.

Just because his grandmother may have expressed this fear and he used it as an example in his speech does not mean he "threw her under the bus"

If that is the case, then I just threw my grandmother under the bus too....

[Fredda Weinberg]

1. Yes, you did. And she was a graceful person in public .. you also

betrayed her confidence. Shame on you.

[Bonobo]

4. My grandmother used to complain about "schwarzes". Probably yours too, Freeda.

But maybe not. You are, after all, perfect.

[Fredda Weinberg]

7. I choose to honor my father and mother. How 'bout you? n/t

[Bonobo]

10. So you paper over their faults, I get it. You're a good person and others are shit.

That's pretty much the consistent message all your posts say.

You are so full of your self, it's most unbecoming.

So anyway, did they call them "Schwarzies" or not?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

18. And perpetuate their flaws into subsequent generations? No thank you. nt

[Fredda Weinberg]

22. We're not talking about perpetuating stereotypes ... Wright did that

by preaching it from the pulpit. When your family members act one way in private and another in public, you know it's not acceptable.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

26. I'm of the opinion that you shouldn't act one way in public and another in private

Nor should you teach your children to be phonies.

[Fredda Weinberg]

47. It's called being polite n/t

[cliffordu]

66. Nope - it's denial. But not like that river in Egypt.

Edited for idiotic typing.

[Skidmore]

85. No, it's called being two-faced, especially when you buy into the

stereotypes. It is not exactly the same as a polite assurance to someone that they look fine even though you don't like the outfit they have on. It is hiding bigotry and not acknowledging it or confronting it. I believe you can honor your parents and respectfully disagree with them. My parents and I used to discuss a range of hot issues when they were alive. We disagreed on a few things but could always give voice to our opinions to one another respectfully. There is no dishonor in dissent, especially when it addresses an injustice.

[JVS]

76. You know, that's how stuff like Holocaust denial gets started.

"Papi couldn't have done that, we'll just say he was fighting the Russians" "Nobody in this town was anti-semitic, and certainly not in this family" Enough people start thinking like that and it's not long before you have a recent historical event that a whole lot of people "don't remember" and even might say "didn't happen".

[malta blue]

83. Damn straight!

:applause::applause:

[NYCGirl]

15. My mom sure did. And we lived in a predominately black neighborhood.

My dad, however, never said anything like that (at least in my presence). But my mom would say things that were amazingly cringeworthy.

[malta blue]

5. SHAME ON ME???

I have no shame in telling this. She was a product of her CULTURE.

[Midlodemocrat]

6. Shame on you.

:eyes:

[KittyWampus]

8. you remind me of the people Frank McCourt encountered back in Ireland who condemned him

for writing his beautiful book "Angela's Ashes". It was the true story of his childhood with an impoverished Mother who did what she had to do to get by.

Sick, small minds.

Keeping pain inside where it becomes septic.

And then ultimately perpetuates one way or other in the next generation.

It's this very mindset that contributes to people who prefer to keep wife beating and child molestation in the dark. Not talked about. To save face.

[anigbrowl]

69. Damn straight. I am actually from Limerick...

where the book is set, and I was living there at the time the film came out. We loved it! Houses were packed, we were very interested to get a view of our home town and culture through the cinematic and literary eyes of others. Yes, a few people disliked and one guy was so irritated that he set out to write some books about growing up in the town and having a happy childhood rather than a depressed one. I don't think he sold more than a couple of hundred copies.

Meantime, over in Boston, people whose families came from Limerick but who had probably never been there for decades were filled up with faux-outrage and holding *book burnings* to express their ire over a writer daring to say anything negative about his home town. Book burnings? Sorry, I'll take some honest self-examination any day of the week.

[Mz Pip]

11. Betrayed her confidence

Maybe we should as the OP is his grandmother took him aside and begged him not to tell anyone about her feelings about race. Then we should have him reveal her name and address.

That would be betraying a confidence.

[Fredda Weinberg]

16. I can't imagine coming from a family where members are exploited to

make a political point. It's not worth it in the long run ...

[Bonobo]

17. Not explotation. Learning by example. It's called reflection and it is how you improve yourself.

[Fredda Weinberg]

19. Yes, within the family. That's why my father explained what it was like

surviving Hitler's labor camps. But how can you, outside those circumstances, understand him?

[Bonobo]

25. If your father spoke to me and others about his experiences, they would have learned as well.

That's why we communicate and share with more than JUST our family, but with friends, strangers and even enemies.

Language is the best tool we have for communicating concepts. Tell people to shut up about racism and there will be no progress.

How can that have escaped you?

[Fredda Weinberg]

45. My father had no reason to talk to anyone else. He had to explain

why he brought us into this world. There was no other reason for him to relive the trauma of losing everyone he loved.

[Bonobo]

52. Whatever. Choose not to address any points you may not be able to answer, I don't care.

But you aren't impressing anyone with your holier-than-thou, Joe Lieberman style of Judaism.

[malta blue]

53. In reliving his trauma his story would have shed light on

the discrimination he was exposed to - and it was HIS choice not to speak of it. But by you throwing it in here you are telling us what happened and that you did not grow as a person from having that happen in your family. I feel sorry for you in some ways.

[Fredda Weinberg]

58. No, I'm not going to violate his confidence. Just letting you know that

within families, you can share in ways that aren't appropriate w/others.

He had no obligation to shed light for you ... only to explain to us why we're here.

No, don't feel sorry for me. Feel sorry for Obama's family, which is fodder for your grist mill.

[malta blue]

64. lol

"grist mill" :rofl:

Yes, he has no obligation to share his experience but YOU mentioned it here, thereby, I suppose by your way of thinking, "betraying" his confidence.

:eyes:

[Mz Pip]

21. No, let's just

keep everything hidden and pretend they don't exist. That's worked so well for us over the past 40 years. Let's just all repeat over and over again, "No one in my family ever harbored negative feelings about another race." Repeat over and over again.

It still won't make it true.

[Fredda Weinberg]

24. The question was whether it was appropriate to use a family member

to excuse a political mistake. You've got low standards.

[Mz Pip]

29. Speaking in specifics

is far more powerful than just giving rehashed generalities.

Talking about the feelings of a close family member has a lot more significance than saying, "I talked to someone who knew of a friend's great aunt who might have been concerned about walking down her street at night."

[Fredda Weinberg]

42. You can't excuse this. Whatever political gain, this was family n/t

[msallied]

46. Yeah, keep it in the family.... how enlightening.

You're an idiot.

I can stand nothing more than willful ignorance.

[anigbrowl]

73. Sorry, don't buy your 'special family rules'

It's your right to live that way if you choose but not everyone else has to or should live by the same standards as you. To me there is nothing wrong with drawing a contrast between you forbears views and your own. The argument you are making is just a kitchen table version of the arguments conservatives make about patriotism, saying that you should never criticize your country under any circumstances because it's disloyal. We all know what happens if you take that mindset to its logical conclusion: totalitarianism.

[malta blue]

28. He is not EXPLOITING her to make a political point.

It is the shame of our nation that only in the last 50 years have the majority of americans become "NONRACISTS"

I think almost everyone here can attest to someone in their family having discriminated or been discriminated against in their lifetime.

It is something to learn from.

And by the way, I wholeheartedly take offense to your statement of "shame on you"

I adored my grandmother more than life itself and a piece of me died on the day she did. I take pride in what I did, as a child, to make her see BEYOND the racism that was instilled in her from day one.

[cali]

30. Really? Then why have YOU done just that with one of your brothers

who you described in a most nasty way just last week. And that's not remotely the first time you've dragged your family onto DU and exploited the living shit out of them. Unbelievable what a sanctimonious phony you are.

[Bonobo]

41. Cali, you kicked her sanctimonious ass but good. Thanks.

[malta blue]

43. Yes she did, but not to the curb....see post #42.

[Bonobo]

44. She doesn't respond to posters who kick her ass.

[malta blue]

48. I see she only answered me that once....does that mean I

kicked her ass too? j/k :rofl:

BTW - thanks for helping me out here. :hi:

[Fredda Weinberg]

49. I pointed out that a DUer was praising the member of my family who's

quite proud of bigotry. But you know very little about him ... know this ... his hostility is a mirror reflection of yours.

[Bonobo]

51. Damn! How can you throw your brother under the bus!? You should be ashamed of yourself.

It's FAAAAAMILY!

[Fredda Weinberg]

56. Nope, I'm not even ashamed that he is who he is. He's always been

the same in private and public.

Are you ashamed of yours? They should be ashamed of you.

[Bonobo]

59. You can ask them. One of them is on this board and is a Hillary supporter.

Maddiejoan. Go ask her if I embarass her.

[Fredda Weinberg]

63. I have her permission? n/t

[Bonobo]

65. Permission for what? To contact her? Go ahead.

That's her business, not mine.

Now give me your brother's name. Just kidding.

[Fredda Weinberg]

68. That's a strange response and no, I don't contact others w/o a good

reason. That would be rude.

[Bonobo]

72. Nothing strange at all about my response. Odd of you to think so.

Do whatever you like. It would neither be rude nor unwelcomed. DU has a PM system that was intended to be used.

My sister is a big girl and can decide how to respons to you.

I respect her enough to not be concerned one bit about how it might work out - even if she said I embarrassed her it would be fine.

Maybe you're the... odd one, no?

[Fredda Weinberg]

77. Why, because I'm not eager to mess w/u as you are w/me?

If your sister wanted to understand how awful your behavior really is, I'd enlighten her ... as I'd enlighten you if you really cared to understand why someone outside your comfort zone is communicating w/u here. Odd? I'm a misfit because I walked away from a traditional society ... and the secular world has few things going for it, but logical consistency is one of them.

Logical consistency is not a valued characteristic in politics ... but I've only interacted w/em when necessary.

As for respecting your sister, I'll just chalk it up to differences in family relationships. I would give my brother the courtesy of a heads up if I were sending a stranger his way.

[Bonobo]

81. You are not outside my comfort zone.

I've lived all over the world, and frankly, self-deceit and self-absorption are a very common feature among people.

You are not the unique person you clearly think you are.

[Fredda Weinberg]

84. Then you have no excuse for your insults. You don't know me n/t

[Bonobo]

86. What I know of you is what you have laid out here for all to see. n/t

[The Backlash Cometh]

35. Yeah, some ugly truths are best kept secret.

NOT!

[Fredda Weinberg]

50. Obama has given you the idea his grandmother hid ugly

truths ... sorry, but just because he cringed doesn't make it so. But that's the impression he left.

[The Backlash Cometh]

74. The 60s were full of ugly truths.

Lots of them. Rape victims kept quiet because, if they talked, society wouldn't have liked what they had to say. For a long time, pedophile priests were allowed to run amok, because no one wanted to listen to what the children had to say because society wouldn't have liked what they had to say. And, those of us who lived the era, know there were alcoholic and abusive dads that no one wanted to talk about because society wouldn't have liked what we would have had to say. And racism, yes, there was racism. Lots of it. And now, we're talking about it. Sorry if it makes you feel uncomfortable.

[anigbrowl]

75. Wrong, again.

The only idea I got from him was that his grandmother had some reflexive prejudices that were a product of her social environment and hard to shake off. Most people do, to some extent.

[tigervalentine]

79. I cannot believe how full of BS you are.

Guess that's what Hillary worship leads to.

Given the kind of person his grandmother is, I can envision her chasing you down the street, wielding an umbrella. (After, of course, extricating herself from the wheels of the nonexistent bus under which she was thrown.)

[helderheid]

2. Amen.

Just wait though. Soon you'll be called a racist sexist cult member.

[Bonobo]

3. Hell, there isn't even a bus.

[Mz Pip]

9. Of course he didn't

He mentioned her to show that race is a complex issue and that each family has incidents and opions that might be in conflict with themselves and other family members.

THose who do not support Obama try to minimize those words with some stupid talking point are dishonest about what Obama said.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

12. Some white people don't like their ugly secret exposed.

They want to turn it into a "respect-for-elders" thing. There's already one post in this thread referring to that.

Well I don't respect them. Their racism led to Reagonomics and a draconian drug war, among other things. And now they want everyone to pretend it wasn't so.

[KittyWampus]

14. it's the same mindset that doesn't want to recognized child abuse, wife beating, etc

keep all the pain and anger bottled up.

don't ever talk about it.

but go to church on Sunday.

if you have a black eye, wear sunglasses or tell everyone how clumsy you are.

[Abacus]

13. My grandmother sympathised with a woman who didn't want to sell her home to a black couple

This upset my grandfather who tried to convince her that their skin color was irrelevant. I love her and I don't think that I threw her under the bus by making this revelation.

Edit: oops, I meant to reply to Fredda, ah well...

[goodgd_yall]

71. I really appreciate that Obama made a point of the complexity

of our attitudes toward other races. I think there are many instances of people knowing people who were inconsistent in how they viewed people different from them. I have found that in my parents. I can relate wholeheartedly with what Obama has said.

[azmouse]

20. I agree. It should be shame on the Hillary supporters who repeat this

RW talking point constantly because their candidate won't get the nomination.

THEY are content to 'throw the entire Democratic party under the bus' because they can't get their way.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

23. I wonder how many of her older supporters were "Reagan Democrats"

Who voted for Ronnie because they wanted to stick it to those "welfare queens". I'm betting it's a lot.

[azmouse]

32. That's a different issue and I don't feel the need to speculate on it.

I do know that Hillary supporters are sounding more and more desperate when they feel they need to constantly harp on one lame phrase and thought. They are increasingly using RW talking points. That is worrisome. How far will they go in destroying the Dem party to try to get their way?

[grannylib]

27. I think it's been totally taken out of context. My grandparents were

the most loving, decent, devout Christian people (not judgmental right-wing-types) but once my Grandpa used the "N" word (while watching the Fifth Dimension on TV, and he had poor eyesight, and he peered at the TV and asked if the group was "all N's" and then commented on how much he liked the song they were singing) and I remember being so shocked and saddened, and I was only 8 at the time...and my dad noticed my reaction and told me later that his father was not in any way racist; he knew that where his dad grew up and in the era in which he grew up, that was the common term and for those in NE Iowa, it was not meant (although I'm sure it would have been taken) with the negative connotation it has when uttered by white people. I know I felt then, and still do now, that just the use of that word is inherently racist, and I wasn't sure if I bought what my dad said, but I know I loved my grandpa dearly and I know the way he treated everyone he met, so I'm not sure today how I feel about that...
It's a complicated issue, for sure, and I'm glad he has the balls to confront and deal with it honestly and courageously, and without treating the American people as though they're too stupid to understand, or incapable of having this conversation.

[Nia Zuri]

31. We need to just start ignoring this BS, it's all they got

[malta blue]

34. It's sad that DU got to this level of vitriole.

:hi:

Welcome to DU!

I can't believe some of the stuff I have been reading. I have to check to be sure I am at the right place.

[The Backlash Cometh]

33. I love my mother dearly, but,

She was also a white hispanic, and when I invited a black co-worker (gee, I am a little intimidated to call her a friend, but she was) to be in my wedding party, my mother told me that you don't do things like that -- mix up the races in the wedding party. She knew it was true because she read it in a book. I asked her what book, and she couldn't recall.

Then on my husband's side, I was told I couldn't pair my black friend with any of the members of his family because someone in the family was raped by a black guy once. Now, This was over twenty years ago, and I never heard this story elaborated. I'm convinced they were lying.

Oh, and my mother-in-law claimed I only invited the black friend into the wedding party to be "hip." And my father-in-law, in a discussion where I pointed out that in India the people are blacker than some black Americans, his comment was, "They're not black, they're blue-black!"

So, to all you people who claim that there wasn't a racist generation, I say, screw you all. I wish I had the ability to block this shit out sometimes.

[malta blue]

37. I wish I could recommend your post here...

It is the damned truth.

:applause:

[Buzz Clik]

36. My grandparents were all racist as hell. I loved them dearly, but couldn't abide their intolerance.

They're all dead now, but not one was run over by bus. :evilgrin:

[Peregrine Took]

38. He had no right to publicly humiliate her. The lady is still alive - how

embarrassed she must be of her "rock star" grandson.

[malta blue]

39. Have you spoken to her of her embarrassment?

:eyes:

I am pretty sure that the comments she made were not made yesterday. They were made years ago, and he referenced them as an example.

[PassingFair]

40. I loved and respected my FATHER. He remains my most influential character...

even YEARS after his death. BUT


...when I was a young woman (19) he told me
that he would throw me out of the house if
I dated a black man (an interested swain had
called the house).

The black man who had called was from a
rich, much admired family, but my Dad
didn't know that, all he heard was a
black "accent", and he WENT OFF.

I pushed it with him, and he said
"Don't bring him home!"

Total KNEE JERK reaction from a guy who
was raised in a world where racism was
as natural as BREATHING.

I have no doubt, that had the "relationship"
gone anywhere (it didn't), my father would
have eventually been forced to judge the guy
on his own merits.

If this recollection is "throwing my Dad
under the bus", then he is the one responsible
for gassing it up and laying on the accelerator!

Obama's white grandmother has a LOT of company.
We can speak out against the BIGOTED perceptions
and STILL LOVE the "wrinklies" that don't examine
their own prejudices.

Note: My apologies to the Wrinklies that have
grappled with institutionalized prejudice and WON!

[Ben143]

54. He back-stabbed his grandmother

It was a low blow.

[Bonobo]

55. 6 posts! What was your name when you got kicked off last time?

[malta blue]

67. back-stabbed her?

:rofl:

[DemGa]

57. Sure he did -- and she cannot even defend herself -- it's shameful

He could have spoken in general terms -- he did not.

What is it about this wing of the "Dems" that screws people over without a thought -- think Ted Kennedy 1980.

[Kashka-Kat]

60. the significant thing about Obama's campaign that everyone misses - really this has got to be the

first "adult" communicator we've had in many decades, at least since the real intense polarization began w/ Reagan. Obama has a more sophisticated, nuanced way of expressing himself that is a breath of fresh air to a lot of us.

Some people are just never going to get that, ever. To them the world is made up of stark dualities. Everything, but everything is reduced to polar opposites. Good vs. bad, right vs wrong, and yes, black vs. white. Its useless to try to engage on that level. Better to get an audience by speaking with such eloquence that people (media) have to pay attention... thats really the only hope of blasting thru all the noise and being heard.

[DemGa]

61. I'm very much a conceptual thinker -- I see a fraud in Obama

Your characterization does not hold up, I can assure you. There are many more who have insight and see these things.

[damonm]

62. If you "see a fraud in Obama", but NOT in Clinton,

You aren't much of a thinker, conceptual or otherwise.

[Swamp Rat]

70. yep

Say 'hi' to DA for me. ;) :hi:

[malta blue]

78. Will do my friend...

:hi:

I am sure he sends his regards too.

[AZBlue]

80. Of course he didn't. Which is why I'm bumping your thread and not that other "person's"

[malta blue]

82. LOL

Thanks :hi: although the upper part seems to have turned into a flamewar....

[riskpeace]

87. Sorry about your grandmother,

I hope she is okay.

[malta blue]

88. lol

:rofl:

Nice to see some humor in GD: P once in a while...