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Texas Hill Country Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 12:32 PM
Original message
Alright, I am making some declarations...
I am a Hillary supporter.

I think that Obama is a super guy, just a bit green.

I also think that he pulled some super shady shit in MI and FL, and hate him for that.


BUT


If he is the nominee, which is looking more likely every day, I will support him 100%.

If he is the nominee, I will donate to the campaign

If he is the nominee, I will even volunteer for the campaign.



BUT


If he loses, I am leaving the Democratic Party forever.

I am sick to death of Democrats talking a good game, but when they get back control of the Congress, they totally wimp out and not only dont get shit done, but mostly dont even try... ever.

I am sick to death of the friggin Democratic Party continually losing gimme presidential elections because they put up unelectable people with decent ideas, but shitty campaign managers that are too wrapped up in bullshit idealogue rhetoric or too inexperienced to play politics the way it needs to be played to win... fast and dirty. just the way it is.

If we lose this election, the Democrats can go to hell. They will have lost my faith and my vote.


/angry and out
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
1. For the last time what on earth do you imagine he did in MI and FL?
Seriously, it's like this stuff is from another planet.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Yes, I agree with the OP on most of this... but...
I'm confused on this point as well.
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Texas Hill Country Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. His supporters blocked the re-vote process.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. His supporters control the MI legislature?
:wtf:
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bunnies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #6
17. care to back that up? nt
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thesubstanceofdreams Donating Member (625 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
2. Thank you for supporting the dem party no matter who is the candidate
The dems will win the GE! :hug:
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #2
20. and if they don't and if obama is the nominee
WE will have blown a shoe-in win.
(Same of course applies to if Clinton is the nomineee)

If we lose - time to seriously consider a move. With the economy is a total unregulated mess and race relations astir and socio-economic injustice/ income disparity at a height, and wars draining blood and treasure.....yikes.

But nowhere to go. Best to stay and work for victory.
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SoFlaJet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
4. take your medication now
and CALM DOWN! It's gonna come down to sheer volume of democrats coming out to vote in November THC...we need this one-regardless of WHO our nominee is
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
5. Well, that's a big step--good on you. And he won't lose--he's beaten the odds thus far, and
I expect that to continue.
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stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
7. So will you switch to the republican party because you like the way they campaign?
vote for a third party, not vote. vote republican - in order to make the changes you want?
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Texas Hill Country Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. my vote is my voice... i dont have to vote for people that suck at what they are supposed to do.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. Your voice has been FOR the Bushprotecting wing of the Dem party.
Your voice SHOULD be ignored by open government Democrats who RESPECT the rights of CITIZENS to an open government that is held accountable to the people.
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LakeSamish706 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
8. Thank you, we Obama supporters will need everyone onboard if Obama is ...
the nominee... We need to get the WH back and instill more Dems in both the Senate and the House come November....
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
10. The fast and dirty was being done to Gore and Kerry by BOTH BushInc AND TeamClinton
Edited on Fri Mar-21-08 12:48 PM by blm
and you want to reward TeamClinton for being TRAITORS to the party.

You blame the Dems and campaigns who were being undermined from WITHIN our own party by the very people YOU SUPPORT.

You think Clintons could win if the Dem party powerstructure was used AGAINST them?

http://www.depauw.edu/news/index.asp?id=13354

You think Clinton would have won in 92 if the Dems weren't pummeling Bush1 consistently as they were, and not supporting and defending him for weeks like Bill did for Bush2?
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/06/19/clinton.iraq/

You think Clintons would have won in 2004 if inside Dems sabotaging Dem voters on election night?
http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2006/oct/07/did_carville_tip_bush_off_to_kerry_strategy_woodward



Yur perspective is based on a fairy tale view of the last two decades - the Clinton/McAuliffe version.
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Texas Hill Country Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. why did you need to go there... see this is the crap i am talking about... unecessary shit talking
Edited on Fri Mar-21-08 12:46 PM by Texas Hill Country
This board has made me dislike Obama more than anything else just because of you "obamatons" talking shit all the time.

it's old.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Go where - to TRUTHLAND, where you feel uncomfortable and out of your league?
See - this is what has made me dislike your wing of the party even more than I did before - you REWARD lies and traitorous behavior of the closed government protectors in our party and scold and demean the honest, anti-corruption, open government Democrats.
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LakeSamish706 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
13. Texas, I know it is not easy having your candidate down...
I have had two candidates drop out of the race; Kucinich was my first choice and when he dropped out I became an Edwards supporter... Its hard to have them lose the race, but I now am comfortable with Obama being the person to both get the WH back and (more importantly) get our country back.
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Texas Hill Country Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. It is not just this candidate... it was the Gore fiasco, the Kerry mess, and I am not sure bout BO
It is also the fact that Congress has not delivered on jack crap
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
15. You should become an independent rather than write off the Democratic Party
There are some ghreat people in the Democratic Party and there are some clunkers.

I think you are setting yourself up for disappointment by seeing it in such Either/Or terms.

If I were king, we'd have a multi-party system, perhaps a liberal party, a centrist party and a conservative party. The alignments would be based on issues.

But since I'm not king, we're stuck with with two parties. And of the two, the Democrats are sometimes infuriating, but far preferable to the GOP.



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Texas Hill Country Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. i agree they are far preferable to the GOP, but DAMN, this party has some serious dumb.
I could never vote GOP because their women's issues and science beliefs scare me, but I am not gonna waste my time supporting idiots that dont know how to get anything done.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
18. I don't agree with parts of your OP but understand your strong feelings
and don't want to pick on the things we disagree upon. In a few weeks I look forward to working together with you.


I prefer somebody get pissed off and angry than pontificate and sit on the fence without passion.
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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
22. Pish and tush. Congress did do shit. The media didn't report it--so as to lower your morale.
Edited on Fri Mar-21-08 02:02 PM by Perry Logan
Less than six months into the 110th Congress, Senate Democrats have made significant strides in passing important, common-sense legislation that reflect the priorities of the American people. After nearly a decade of Republican control, Democrats have worked to restore fiscal responsibility in Washington and pass key legislation on Iraq policy, homeland security, troop readiness, veterans' health care, economic competitiveness, ethics reform, the minimum wage, health care, education, energy independence, stem cell research, and Gulf Coast revitalization. Democrats are committed to proving that elections do matter, and we will continue to pursue the international and domestic priorities that matter most to the American people. Together, we will take the country in a new direction.

Under Democratic leadership, the Senate has passed the following measures:

* A fiscally responsible budget: a budget that restores fiscal discipline and will lead to a surplus, while cutting middle-class taxes and funding foreign anddomestic priorities, including education, children's health care, veterans, and our troops;

* 9/11 Commission recommendations: a bill to make America more secure by giving our first responders the tools they need to keep us safe; making it more difficult for potential terrorists to travel into our country; advancing efforts to secure our rail, air, and mass transit systems; and improving intelligence and information sharing between state, local, and federal law enforcement agencies;

* Homeland security funding: legislation that provides $1.05 billion in funding necessary to address dangerous border and transit vulnerabilities left open by the Bush Administration since 9/11;

* Support for our troops: legislation funding the President's requests for Operation Iraqi Freedom and Operation Enduring Freedom, including $1.2 billion in additional funding for a total of $3 billion to provide our troops in Iraq with mine-resistant, ambush-protected vehicles;

* Health care for wounded soldiers and veterans: legislation that provides $3 billion in supplemental funds for military health care and $1.8 billion in supplemental funds to the Department of Veterans' Affairs to accommodate the increasing number of new veterans returning home from Iraq and Afghanistan;

* Benchmarks for Iraq: legislation that conditions U.S. economic support for the Iraqi government on its progress toward achieving key political benchmarks;

* National Guard readiness: legislation to provide an additional $1 billion to President Bush's request for National Guard equipment needs to remedy equipment shortfalls that are compromising the quality of force training and limiting the Guard's ability to quickly respond to natural and potential man-made disasters at home;

* Continuing Resolution: legislation providing funding for the nine remaining appropriations bills that were not completed by Republicans in the 109th Congress. In passing this legislation, Democrats stayed within budget limits, eliminated earmarks, and increased funding for national priorities, including veterans' medical care, Pell grants, elementary and secondary education, the National Institutes of Health, state and local law enforcement, and global AIDS prevention and treatment;
* Energy Bill: landmark legislation to increase our energy independence, strengthen the economy, reduce global warming emissions, and protect American consumers.

* American competitiveness: bipartisan legislation to increase the nation's investment in basic and innovative research; strengthen educational opportunities in science, technology, engineering, and mathematics from elementary through graduate school; and develop the infrastructure needed to enhance innovation and competitiveness in the United States;

* Ethics and lobbying reform: a bill to slow the "revolving door" for former Senators and staff, strengthen limits on gifts and travel, expand lobbying disclosure requirements, establish a study commission on ethics and lobbying, prohibit pensions for Members of Congress convicted of certain crimes, and implement reform procedures relating to earmarks and conference reports;

* Minimum wage: legislation to increase the federal minimum wage to $7.25/hour;

* Middle-class tax cuts: the 2008 Budget Resolution provides for permanent extensions of the Marriage Penalty tax relief, the $1,000 refundable Child Tax Credit; the 10 percent income tax bracket; the adoption tax credit; the dependent care tax credit; U.S. soldiers' combat pay for the earned income tax credit; and reform of the estate tax to protect small businesses and family farms;

* AMT patch: the 2008 Budget Resolution ensures that the number of taxpayers subject to the alternative minimum tax will not increase in 2007, giving Congress and the Administration time to come up with a permanent solution;

* Head Start: a bill to expand eligibility for the Head Start program;
* Stem cell research: legislation to expand the number of human embryonic stem cells eligible for federally-funded research;

* Children's health coverage: the 2008 Budget Resolution and the 2007 Emergency Supplemental provide needed funds for the Children's Health Insurance Program;

* FDA reauthorization: a bill to greatly improve the Food and Drug Administration's oversight of drug safety;

* Rebuilding the Gulf Coast: legislation providing a total of $6.4 billion for victims of Hurricanes Katrina and Rita, including $1.3 billion to complete levee and drainage repairs, $50 million to reduce violent crime in Gulf Coast states, and $110 million to repair the seafood and fisheries industries, which is vital to the region's economic recovery;

* Army Corps reform: legislation to ensure that the Army Corps of Engineers does its job more effectively and soundly;

* Disaster assistance for small businesses: legislation providing recovery assistance for small businesses impacted by the 2005 hurricanes in an effort to revitalize the Gulf Coast economy;

* U.S. Attorney appointments: legislation ending the indefinite appointment of interim U.S. Attorneys and restoring the role of the Senate in the selection of U.S. Attorneys;

* Tax relief for small businesses: legislation providing a range of deficit-neutral tax incentives designed to help small businesses grow;

* Education and training: the 2008 Budget Resolution provides for the largest increase since 2002 in funding for elementary and secondary programs; and

* Energy and environment programs: legislation increasing funding for basic science research at the Department of Energy and for energy efficiency and renewable energy programs.
http://www.apostille.us/news/democratic_accomplishments_in_the_110th_congress_leading_america_in_a_new_direction.shtml

There are countless investigations going on. Healthcare is on the table. The internet is safe for now. Our wounded vets are no longer lying around in their own urine. The Senate Ethics Committee is back in action. Many 9/11 Commission recommendations are being passed. A bill to increase financial aid for colleges has passed--the single largest increase in college aid since the GI bill. The President's signing statements are being investigated. Legislation to restore habeus corpus has been approved. The Senate Armed Services Committee has passed legislation "that would grant new rights to terror suspects held at Guantanamo Bay. The unions have a voice in the government now—as do gays, women, and minorities. The environment has a fighting chance. The House passed the Taxpayer Protection Act, to protect taxpayers against "identity theft, deceptive Web sites and loan sharks." It also makes it "easier for taxpayers to retrieve property lost as a result of a wrongful Internal Revenue Service levy and directs the IRS to notify lower-income people that they qualify for the Earned Income Tax Credit." The House approved a bill spending $1.7 billion over five years for cleaner water. There's a new House committee devoted solely to addressing the issue of global warming. And so on.

this 110th Congress has had more roll call votes this year than any other Congress in history, almost doubling the number under the previous Congress overseen by Boehner and House Speaker Dennis Hastert (R-IL):
The House last week held its 943rd roll call vote of the year, breaking the previous record of 942 votes, a mark set in 1978. The vote was on a procedural motion related to a mortgage foreclosure bill. When the House adjourned on Oct. 4 for the long weekend, the chamber had reached 948 roll call votes, putting Democrats on pace to easily eclipse 1,000 votes on the House floor in 2007.
Last year, the Republican controlled House held 543 votes, and for historical comparison, the last time there was a shift in power in Congress, Republicans held 885 roll call votes in 1995. The Senate, which has held 363 votes this year, isn't on pace to break any records, but has already surpassed the 2006 Senate mark of 279 votes.
Much of the lack of progress can be traced back to obstructionism by conservatives.
Approximately "1 in 6 roll-call votes in the Senate this year have been cloture votes," noted a JulyMcClatchy report. "If this pace of blocking legislation continues, this 110th Congress will be on track to roughly triple the previous record number of cloture votes."
It's interesting that Boehner is criticizing the 110th Congress as doing nothing. After all, the House, under his leadership, met for just 101 days during the second session of the 109th Congress, setting the record "for the fewest days in session in one year since the end ofWorld War II."

"President Bush's success rating in the Democratic-controlled House has fallen this year to a half-century low, and he prevailed on only 14 percent of the 76 roll call votes on which he took a clear position.

"So far this year, Democrats have backed the majority position of their caucus 91 percent of the time on average on such votes. That marks the highest Democratic unity score in 51 years."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1728952&mesg_id=1728952
http://public.cq.com/docs/cqt/news110-000002576765.html

Don't let the media rhetoric fool you. The Democrats have acquitted themselves quite well--especially given their bare majority in both houses, and a relentlessly obstructionist Republican minority.
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
23. The entire process of government has been corrupted by special interest big money, IMO.
Edited on Fri Mar-21-08 02:08 PM by closeupready
So you don't get responsive officials, you get officials who are sanctioned by wealthy special interests who are also sexy and popular with the public and know how to raise money. (Parallels with Spitzer there, lol.) But seriously, the problem is only a little about the Democratic Party are more about the system. There need to be reforms, including a campaign finance reform limiting how much money candidates can take from each source, and who that source may be.
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wrando Donating Member (949 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
24. fair enough
I agree on your main points, but you couldn't possible become a repub.

one bit of advise, don't watch Olberman, he makes an ass of himself nightly and can give you heartburn

Bill from ct
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Auntie Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
25. Me thinks you speak for a lot of people! n/t
I next time we have a primary...I hope to hell we can learn this lesson and coalesce behind someone and stop using RW and Republican Talking Points
against our own nominee. That's sooo stupid! When will we learn? Probably never! And we'll never win the presidency either.
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