Why didn't Kerry vote against John Negroponte's nomination?

[Zhade]

Reposting this question from a different thread in LBN...

Considering Senator Kerry's role in helping to investigate the Iran-Contra scandal, one would assume that he knows all about the players involved.

So, I'd like an honest answer to this question: when Kerry has the chance to use this acquired knowledge to stop one of the players from gaining a position of influence, why does he not even bother to vote?

I refer, of course, to the utterly disgusting and horrifying Senate confirmation of one John Negroponte, death-squad supporter and figure in the Iran-Contra debacle.

Kerry investigated Iran-Contra, yes?

He knows exactly how Negroponte was involved, yes?

So, why did he not even show up to vote against a man he knows from his own investigations is a criminal and a supporter of death squads?

Anyone care to ante up? Kerry's decision not to oppose Negroponte is wrong, wrong, wrong. And we all know it.

[0007]

1. A good question that should be a probed.

[IndianaGreen]

2. Kerry shares Negroponte's views on Cuba and Venezuela

Why would a PPI imperialist oppose a PNAC imperialist?

[workforpower]

3. Was the vote that close?

If not he is better of campaigning.

[Zhade]

4. Sadly, no. Only 3 - 3! - Dems voted No.

A travesty and an injustice.

My senators are now dead to me. I have ceased hoping they cared about democracy, or peace, or justice, or fairness.

To hell with them.

[dansolo]

31. My Senator continues to make me proud

Dick Durbin. If only more Democrats had his moxy. *SIGH*

[Andy_Stephenson]

5. Why would Kerry's actions on this suprise you?

after all he is the War Candidate.

He also has the historical record for the most missed votes.

[ikojo]

8. Kerry may have the record for the most

missed votes in the SENATE but I doubt he has missed more votes than "Representative" Gephardt, who didn't bother showing up last July 10 to vote on proposed overtime rules changes. Some defender of the working class, huh?

[workforpower]

10. Give us some links.

Give us the facts.

[ikojo]

54. Link proving Gephardt did not vote on July 10 vote on overtime

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2003/roll351.xml

NOT VOTING:
Cramer
Gibbons
Millender-McDonald
Fletcher
Goss
Owens
Fossella
Harman
Payne
Gephardt
Houghton
Sanchez, Loretta



DU link discussing that vote...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=114&topic_id=267#306

From The Hill Magazine

http://www.hillnews.com/news/052003/gephardt.aspx

Gephardt skips 85% of House votes
By Sam Dealey and Sarita Chourey

Rep. Dick Gephardt (D-Mo.) has missed 162 votes in the House this year — 85 percent of the total — prompting Republicans to charge that he has abandoned his congressional duties in his pursuit of the presidency.

From a Missouri paper

Article was written in January 2004

http://www.newstribune.com/articles/2004/01/17/news_state/0117040026.txt

"Over the past year, Gephardt has missed 95 percent of his House votes, Gillespie told the partisan St. Louis County Pachyderm Club during a luncheon. Gephardt's actual absentee rate is about 91 percent, missing 618 of 677 House votes since January 2003, according to Congressional Observer Publications, a nonpartisan vote-tracking service.

Since 1995, when COP began tracking the voting, Gephardt has missed a greater percentage of House votes than any of his current colleagues -- 1,051 out of 5,379, or 19.5 percent."

[cosmicdot]

60. Gephardt isn't going to be the standard-bearer ... Kerry is ...

[ikojo]

69. Although a long shot, Gephardt's name has been

rumored to be on the short list for possible VP candidates. In that light his record is indeed very important.

[workforpower]

9. When did he say that?

You know nothing about politics. Worthless votes are not worth casting. Politics are about winning,not whining.

[wubbathompson]

16. Nice one Kerry

Way to take a stand.

[ibegurpard]

6. Perhaps

One of the Kerry-has-uncovered-more-corruption-and-government-abuse-than-any-other-politician brigade will be able to answer. I certainly can't and it stinks to high heaven, in my opinion.

[Zhade]

7. Yes, I'm hoping one of them can answer.

Or that they at least are willing to try to answer. If they can.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[workforpower]

11. Dean lost.

Get over it. He hit the wall on the first lap.

[CTLawGuy]

15. I have a feeling we'll be saying the same thing

about Captain Courageous on Nov. 3rd....

[ibegurpard]

23. Yes he did

and how is that relevant to what is being discussed here?

[Zhade]

37. It's not. It's a strawman. Not even a clever one, at that.

NT!

[CTLawGuy]

14. then the

John-Kerry-is-the-most-liberal-candidate-ever squad can chime in too.

[blm]

20. The day you can name one other lawmaker in modern history

who has exposed more government corruption than Kerry is the day I will concede that Kerry is not as worthy of the presidency as I believe.

[ibegurpard]

24. LOL

Even if I believe you that doesn't answer the original question.

[Zhade]

38. Well then, perhaps you can answer the question.

Will you?

Is there even an answer? If so, I'm dying to hear it, minus any "Naderite/Deaniac/traitor!" slams.

I believe it's a question worth asking. Does it bother you that Kerry didn't vote against a criminal he helped investigate?

EDIT: It appears you did answer below. Thank you for at least trying, rather than insulting me like some others (though I did not read the deleted post before the mods killed it, I assume it was another ignorant and juvenile attack by a certain s...omeone).

[cosmicdot]

61. yet, the culprits are still at large and still at play in the current WH

and, a what a danger they are to all of us

Steve Kangas and Danny Casolaro (et al) exposed as much of the same Octopus as you're claiming Kerry did ... but, they wanted to go further ... of course, we know Kangas and Casolero are, now, dead ... as are 1000s of Afghanis and Iraqis and Americans and so many others ...

and, Kerry will pardon Bush and others if the situation arises ... i.e., we gotta move on, right?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

28. It's actually the

Kerry-has-uncovered-more-corruption-and-government-abuse-than-any-other-politician-and-will-eviscerate-their-numbers-once-he's-elected brigade. But apparently he's powerless until he's in the WH. I think it has something to do with Kryptonite.

:freak:

[blm]

62. I think it has to do with all the Democrats who didn't support Kerry's

investigations. Imagine what could have been if Kerry had more support from guys like Al Gore who chose to go after dirty song lyrics instead of working with Kerry.

Even a certain past governor of Vermont was more supportive of the illegal wars in Central America than he was of Kerry's efforts to expose them.

[agingdem]

13. I remember thinking

Negroponte is without conscience or a sense of humanity...the perfect Bush emissary to Iraq. Bushie has redefined Hell (Iraq) so why not send in Satan (Negroponte) to do what he does best!!

[dsc]

17. This is why Kerry should quit the Senate now

Let Barney Frank run with Kerry on the ticket for the special election. We would lose the seat for a couple of months but have a vastly better of chance of retaining it for the other 4 years of his remaining term.

[Pepperbelly]

72. bull ....

Romney would appoint a repub.

[dsc]

73. and he will appoint a Democrat in January?

I think not. Our choice is to have a Republican for 6 months in a Senate which is already Republican, to have one for a year in a Senate which may see the balance change back, or to take an action (preventing a Romney appointment) which might cost us the seat for good. I choose option 1, thank you anyway.

[never cry wolf]

18. Are you sure he even voted?

The vote was 95-3, I couldn't pull up the roll call on the senate site but from Kerry's site he was out west campaigning.

Kerry Offers a “New Bargain for America's Children and Teachers”
May 06, 2004: Democratic Presidential candidate John Kerry Thursday announced his "New Bargain for America's Children and Teachers," which will strengthen education in America by retaining or recruiting 500,000 teachers over the next four years. The announcement came as Kerry closed a three-day campaign swing through New Mexico and California where he pledged to build a strong America as President by keeping his commitment to America's schools.


http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/

[Zhade]

39. Um...did you even read my original question?

I asked why Kerry did not vote against a criminal he knows is a member of the BFEE through his own investigations.

He didn't vote - which is what bothered me enough in the first place to post a thread about it.

[never cry wolf]

53. He didn't vote against OR FOR

because he was not in DC at the time he COULD NOT VOTE AT ALL! You can't phone in a vote. Deriding him for not voting against this ghoul negroponte is STUPID because he didn't vote FOR him either!

HE DIDN'T VOTE! HE WAS ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL TRYING TO GATHER MONEY AND VOTES TO GET THE ASSHOLE WHO NOMINATED THE GHOUL OUT OF OFFICE!!!!!

[blm]

19. Kerry is RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT and is on the campaign trail.

If you want Senators to not be able to run FULLTIME for president unless they give up their Senate seats then make it an issue.

[sadiesworld]

21. And if Kerry had been in Washington voting (on an issue where he

couldn't have an impact on the outcome) the same folks here at DU would be screaming that he should be out on the campaign trail DOING SOMETHING!

[ibegurpard]

25. Ummm

If Kerry is proud of his record of being "the politician who has exposed the most corruption in history" then this vote would've been a good opportunity to shore up that reputation AND given him an opportunity to trumpet that record on the campaign trail and bring up the fact that many of the players in Iran-Contra are still on the stage.

[dsc]

27. He needs to give up the seat

It would both help him and help hold the seat.

[no name no slogan]

41. Understandable, but he draws a Senators' pay to be a Senator FIRST,

NOT second. If he's going to remain a seated Senator, he has an obligation to his constituents AND the American people, who pay him a large salary for the honor of being a US Senator.

I can understand why a campaign would pull him away from his votes, but maybe he needs to consider that while he runs for Senate. Bob Dole resigned in 1996 when he was the Repubs' nominee because he couldn't be a presidential candidate and an effective Senator. Dennis Kucinich keeps an extremely grueling schedule and still manages to be present for most of the votes in the House.

Once Kerry has the nomination sewn up, he should step aside. He'd be a much better candidate for it, and he certainly doesn't need the money.

[paulk]

Why won't Kerry step aside?

Because the Republican governor of Mass. would immediately appoint a Republican to replace him.

This way Kerry can still be there for the important votes, the votes where he could make a difference,which the Negroponte vote wasn't.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[The Magistrate]

26. Two Small Points, Mr. Zhade

Competence at simple arithmetic is essential in political life. The Democratic Party does not have a majority in the Senate. On questions of Presidential prerogative, party discipline among the Republicans is extraordinary. Therefore, no real possiblity of halting this appointment existed. There is never any good comes of fighting battles that cannot be won; it only wastes energy.

Negroponte is a damned bad man, and is likely to prove a disaster in the position for which he has been selected in Iraq. In political terms, the last thing any opponent of the current administration ought to desire is any improvement in the situation in Iraq: the more criminal and brutal bungling, the more squalid malfeasance and destruction, the better. This appointment may well be viewed as coming under the maxim that when your enemy is beating himself, it is best not to get in his way.

"Politics ain't bean-bag."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

29. Iow,

although a Senator is paid to represent his/her constitiuency, he/she can't be bothered to vote unless it is a deciding vote. Principles and statements of record are meaningless. Standing up and expressing a well thought out opinion of why a certain thing will be a mistake is a "waste of energy" because the minority doesn't deserve a voice. Besides, making such minority opinions might not allow one to nuance the issue in pursuit of higher office.

[no name no slogan]

30. Good points, Mr. Magistrate

but sometimes taking a stand, ANY stand, symbolic or not, says much more about a person than not even being present for it.

Even if it is just "tilting at windmills" for Negroponte's confirmation, Kerry could have used his position as a bully pulpit to air some of Negroponte's "dirty laundry".

What better an opportunity for Iran-Contra-buster Kerry to point out that the same worthless thugs are STILL in power, and are STILL using their power to make the world a more miserable place!

Surely a Kerry speech in a committee meeting may not be the same as gladhandling 500 people in California, but with the country's attention focused on the misdeeds of the US in Iraq it could have sent a VERY powerful statement, as well as provide the Senator a chance to show his backbone and courage, which has apparently been MIA since some time in the 1990s.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

32. Well said.

[ibegurpard]

34. EXACTLY!

"Even if it is just "tilting at windmills" for Negroponte's confirmation, Kerry could have used his position as a bully pulpit to air some of Negroponte's "dirty laundry"."

Why is this so difficult to understand?!

[Zhade]

40. Should Kerry only oppose criminals he helped investigate...

...when it's a close vote?

I realize this is not what you're saying, but this is what it becomes with the logic our party seems to be operating under.

If Kerry cannot take the time to register his opposition to a known criminal that he himself helped expose as such just because the vote isn't close, what does that say about his principles?

Kucinich, for example, voted against the IWR, even though it was not a close vote. I have a lot more respect for Kucinich taking a stand like that than I do Kerry for not opposing a man he knows from his own work is a criminal.

[The Magistrate]

57. We View These Things Differently, Sir

It is probably more a matter of temperament than anything else, and hence no more reconcilable than an argument between extroverts and introverts concerning what constitutes an enjoyable afternoon.

People who press futile stands do not gain my respect; to the contrary, they are likely to lose it.

It seems wiser to me for Sen. Kerry to have absented himself, on a legitimate ground, from this vote: he cannot be attacked by the enemy over it, and is free to assail the reptile later, when it might do some political good. It is certain that Negroponte will be found involved in something hideous by the fall....

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[ulysses]

52. "Politics ain't bean-bag." Neither is it governance.

There is never any good comes of fighting battles that cannot be won; it only wastes energy.

Negroponte is a damned bad man, and is likely to prove a disaster in the position for which he has been selected in Iraq.

I'm not entirely sure how one reconciles the acceptance of a "damned bad man" on the idea that fighting him is a waste of energy, but I suppose you'll explain it to me. I only hope that, at the same time, you'll explain to me what gain or protection Senate Dems hope to secure by having voted for (or not voted against) a man who can only be truly described as a war criminal.

[The Magistrate]

55. Since You Asked, Sir

What do you see as the point to pressing a fight that cannot be won? In my view, fights that cannot be won are to be avoided; fights that can be won are to be pressed hard. It is usually possible for me to see a contrary view to my own, but on this principle, any other view genuinely puzzles me.

The party discipline of the Republicans would hold on a matter of Presidential prerogative, no matter what arguments were made, and we both know that, at the very least, Miller, Liebermann, and Bayh would have voted with them.

A further consideration is that pitching such a fight would have given something to break the "all torture, all the time" character of the news coverage just now. That would not be of much use.

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[ulysses]

71. it's about simply doing what's right.

What do you see as the point to pressing a fight that cannot be won?

John Negroponte is a miserable human being and administrator. Simply giving in to his nomination puts us in his company.

In my view, fights that cannot be won are to be avoided; fights that can be won are to be pressed hard.

In my view, following this dictum too closely against an aggressive opponent leads to a diminishing pool of "fights that can be won". We're seeing that now.

A further consideration is that pitching such a fight would have given something to break the "all torture, all the time" character of the news coverage just now. That would not be of much use.

It's the same issue! We're sending this sack of shit with this history of abetting human rights abuses in Latin America to Iraq...where American troops have been engaged in human rights abuses. People won't make the connection unless we make it for them, and it's easy to do that if we will only have the courage to do so.

[redqueen]

33. And here's more ammo to reinforce the 'no difference' meme with

*sigh*

[Foswia]

35. He was going to be confirmed. Kerry is of a man of action not symbolism!

[Paulie]

36. How about being a man of principal???

Just a thought...

[cyclezealot]

42. News reports said Kerry opposed a No vote for Political reasons.

A vote against Negorpointe supposedly laid Democrats open for 'weak on terrorism' themes by the Republicans..News reports I read said Kerry told Senate Democrats not to oppose Negropointe.
Well, Negorpointe was bad for the U.N. ambassador, No? As I recall. So he is inspiring to Iraq, as we BUILT Democracy.?
Negorpointe is a terrorist and Assassin. Did you see reports, Nicaragua, Honduras pulled their mesasly numbers of troops out of Iraq the day after Negropointe was appointed..
And wonder why some Democrats think Kerry spineless.
I had planned to send some cash to one of my all time favorites..Barbara Boxer...Now lost some of my incentive.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

44. Is that true? I can't find any such 'news reports' on google.

Citation please.

[cyclezealot]

63. A couple days ago.

It was reported by Amy Goodman on Democracy Now on Free Speech TV... Democracy Now has a web site.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

65. What you are saying is not true.

Whether it is a mischaracterization of a fabrication, I don't know.

It is definitely not true though.

Link please.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

43. Your lame attack on Kerry will be fruitless

"Kerry's decision not to oppose Negroponte"


That came from your imagination, didn't it? You made that up, right? You actually know absolutely nothing whatsover about Kerry's decision making process and what decisions he's made, correct?


I suggest you direct your outrage at the real criminals in charge of this country, not at those seeking to reclaim it.

[Zhade]

45. I suggest you open your eyes.

Kerry does not get a pass just for being a Dem.

I've read your posts, and you do not tolerate dissent. I will not interact with you further. Period.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

47. My eyes are open. It is your 'analysis' that is false.

And your 'facts' are made-up.


As I pointed out in my previous post:


"Kerry's decision not to oppose Negroponte"


That came from your imagination, didn't it? You DID make that up, right? You actually know absolutely nothing whatsover about Kerry's decision making process and what decisions he's made, correct?


Your personal attack on me (I've read your posts, and you do not tolerate dissent. ) besides being false, is totally irrelevant.


Are you or are you not privy to Kerry's decision making process?



Then there's this:

Kerry has the chance to use this acquired knowledge to stop one of the players from gaining a position of influence

That not true either is it? Considering the 95-3 vote, Kerry actually did not have this chance, did he?

[Mattforclark]

46. It was only recently that people were complaining

that Kerry wasn't campaigning enough.

[Zhade]

67. Perhaps, but I was not one of them.

NT!

[genius]

48. Stupidity Cowardice

Unfortunately we have to vote for him in November. At least he's not looting the treasury.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

49. "John Kerry is a stupid coward?" Your sentiment makes me sick.

Your unreasonable and false attack on Kerry is a good example of why Bush has a chance to win even though he is the worst President in history.

:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:

[genius]

50. Who are you quoting? It's okay to support him without being blind to his

faults. It's important to be honest with ourselves no matter what. That's what separates us from the Nazis.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

51. You said the 'reason' was 'stupidity' 'cowardice'.

I accept the proposition that that is 'honestly' your opinion.



And I find your 'honest opinion' to be wrong, based on false assumptions, not to mention counterproductive to every positive goal I am working towards (for example: defeating Bush, restoring democracy in America, working towards social justice, and so on).

I don't know what your goals are in attacking Kerry as a victim of 'stupidity' and 'cowardice'. Would you care to share them with us?

[genius]

56. You can't admit that Kerry made a mistake. I'm more on Kerry's side than

you are. The alternative is that he supports death squads.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

66. Your attack on me, besides being untrue, is irrelevant.

You said the 'reason' was 'stupidity' 'cowardice'. I find your characterization of Kerry to be false and despicable.

[incapsulated]

58. He *can't* because he voted FOR him in 2001

Only Boxer, Feingold and Wellstone opposed his nomination as U.N. Ambassador in 2001. Kerry voted for him despite "concerns". This was part of the great bending-over of the Party after 9/11, remember?

He can't exactly make a fuss now without looking like a total hypocrite. The time to beat Kerry up over this was back then. He can't say anything now, even if he wanted to.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

59. Case closed.

[IndianaGreen]

70. Case closed, indeed!

:puke:

[Zhade]

68. I think you've nailed it.

Damn.

That's even worse than the "he was campaigning" and "it wasn't a close vote so why even bother voting your principles" excuses given by some.

He voted for this criminal in 2001. And this doesn't bother people? Jesus.

I want him to beat b*sh - someone has to, before that traitor gets us all killed - but it would be nice to see our party not endorse a fucking war criminal!

[sleipnir]

64. Why does Kerry "enable" the Neo-cons?? Who knows....

He does a lot of unusual things...like authorizing some of the worst bills and resolutions in recent memory.


Political Expediency is my guess...