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mrgorth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 08:05 AM
Original message
Get ready for it...new jobs growth figures
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=568&e=2&u=/nm/20040507/bs_nm/economy_jobs_dc

<snip>
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. employment surged for a second straight month during April, adding another 288,000 to payrolls, as jobs were created in nearly every sector at a pace that handily outstripped expectations, a Labor Department (news - web sites) report on Friday said.
<snip>

Good thing we won't use the war against Bush.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 08:08 AM
Response to Original message
1. I honestly think it is too late
the economy started to do well under the first Bush too, and it didn't help.
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mrgorth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Hope you're right
v1.0 didn't have Rove or OBL to pull out from under a rock.
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Frodo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. That's true. But they timed it a lot better this time.

There had only been a couple positive reports out by the time the debates rolled around in '92. Clinton'Gore had don a great job labeling it the "worst economy in 40 years" etc. You have to remember that many of the positive growth numbers for mid-'92 weren't evident until the revisions of early '93. By then it was far too late for pappy.

Shrub's good news started early 4th Quarter of last year when the 8.2% GDP figure came out for Q3. There's lots more time for positive news to sink in before the election this year. If we get a drumbeat of 200k-300k+ job creation figures over the next six months, the "jobless recovery" message will be worthless, as will any bets on Kerry in the Iowa markets.


Worse, there were no real "conservative" economic policies put into place that were precursors to the growth. The tax cuts may not have caused this surge (may even have delayed it for all we know), but it won't be seen that way.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 08:21 AM
Response to Original message
3. Their numbers are Enronned
Case in point: local news just pointed out that only 1/3 of kids looking for summer jobs in this town will find them. Four years ago, there were help wanted signs in nearly every store window.

Case in point: check out the size of your newspaper's help wanted section on Sunday, compare it to the one you saw 4 years ago. Ours has gone from two thick sections to eight pages.

Anybody who believes the government figures on jobs is simply not living in the real world. You can't trust these bastards. They lie.
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kcwayne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Another case in point
I am being asked to take a 40% cut in pay (I do contract work for a multi-billion international company). The problem is not specific to this company, everywhere else I look the opportunities pay about the same.

I have seen an uptick in interest from recruiters, but everyone is low-balling.

Meanwhile, oil prices are skyrocketing which will perturbate through the economy giving us the double wammy, depressed wages on top of inflation.
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Thrill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. How many of these are parttime
and temporary
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Frodo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #6
12. No real way to tell. - On edit "Whoops"
Edited on Fri May-07-04 09:38 AM by Frodo
Most attemps down that path have been somewhat misguided.


Edit - Whoops. looks like there is. The number for last month was 35,000 (The "most attempts" I refered to was a commonly quoted stat that there were 300k new PT jobs last month - completely accounting for the increase. This was a mistake).

http://www.smartmoney.com/bn/ON/index.cfm?story=ON-20040507-000414-0836
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #6
24. Good question. Many are temp jobs and season related. Article:
By LEIGH STROPE, AP Labor Writer

The economy has rebounded strongly, but companies, under intense pressure to compete globally, have been holding down their costs by working employees harder instead of hiring new ones. That appears to be changing, though critics note that job gains are occurring in the lower-paying service sector at retailers and restaurants, and in temporary employment firms.
snip-----------
Other gains in April occurred in retail at building and garden supply stores, general merchandise stores and motor vehicle and parts dealers. The leisure and hospitality sector also added jobs, especially in the category of food services. Hiring also continued to be strong in health care and social assistance for the month.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=668&e=2&u=/ap/20040507/ap_on_bi_go_ec_fi/economy
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #4
10. and outsourcing continues apace
with no end in sight.
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spooky3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #4
14. to say nothing of the slashing of benefits and pushing costs onto
workers.
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last soldier Donating Member (9 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #4
18. PAY CUTS!
YEP I AGREE MCDONALDS IS CUTTING BACK EVERYWHERE.I SUGGEST BURGER KING
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kcwayne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. And your point is what, exactly?
Edited on Fri May-07-04 12:43 PM by kcwayne
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last soldier Donating Member (9 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. PAY CUTS
my point is.it is easier to exist in america by not working.i fought the system for 35 years since i was 16.now that i joined the demo programs it is great!!!i kid you not.try it you will like not working.
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kcwayne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. I could see how you would find not working agreeable
Edited on Fri May-07-04 01:52 PM by kcwayne
Since you are unskilled at using cap locks on a keyboard and properly constructing a sentence in English, the level of work that you can get is probably well below your ego's requirements.

Of course you never know how high someone that is functionally illiterate and unable to communicate clearly can go. Just look at how well George has done, and he never worked either! Maybe you're on to something, Einstein.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Deleted message
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kcwayne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Here's some advice
If you hang around this site long enough, and start reading books and staying abreast of news that is not filtered through Republican propaganda outlets like Fox, you are going to get real depressed. Because from what you are writing (which is very hard to follow since you don't write English), it seems you know virtually nothing about how this country works.

So here is the advice. Start having sex with minors, divorce your wife when she is on her deathbed, spend alot of time at casinos while preaching heavily about morality, and get hooked into a good supplier of Oxycontin. When (and if) you get noticed by the upper class, and they invite you into the circle, you can then start stealing millions from your company, with no threat of going to jail. You can get in on insider trading deals and cash out big.

The easy life is won by the likes of Dick Cheney, Ken Lay and Bernie Eberhart. The rest of us are chumps, fighting over scraps. So when you hit paydirt, remember who set you onto the yellow brick road, and if you would kindly throw me that used chicken bone you are picking your teeth with, I might be able to make soup for my starving family.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 09:50 PM
Original message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. Deleted message
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minkyboodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-04 02:20 AM
Response to Reply #25
35. early exit
we harldy knew ye
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Lithos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
7. The numbers are not that solid
104,000 of the new jobs were Administrative & Waste Management of which 60,100 were Employment services and 7,700 in management/technical consulting (all contractors).

36,000 were McJobs in the Leisure/Hospitality sector of which a 41,000 increase in the Food retail sector were offset by a loss in other leisure activities.

23,400 were Retail of which 10,400 were Building material/garden supply stores (Lowe's, Home Depot)

18,000 were in Construction (of which the 19,800 in Specialty contractors were offset by a 2,700 decline in building construction jobs).

It is interesting to note that there were the following decreases:

1,700 loss in telecomm
3,900 loss in computer systems design


So, most of these jobs are very soft.
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spooky3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #7
13. sounds as if borrowing against one's home equity is paying for a lot
of these jobs created by home improvements.

That means it is a temporary boost.
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mrgorth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #7
15. Can I get a source on this please?
Pretty please?
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Lithos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Labor's own website
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t14.htm

Note this table features both seasonally adjusted and non-adjusted information. I used the seasonally adjusted.

L-
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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 08:52 AM
Response to Original message
8. Pretty damn anemic, with all the priming of the pump--taxcuts, defense
spending. And how many of the manufacturing jobs are real manufacturing jobs--as opposed to burger makers at fast food joints. You cannot trust this Department of Labor to give us the real employment numbers.
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spooky3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. I think the priming of the pump is the key factor--but not sure if most
voters understand this.

The Bush admin. has used every stimulus in the book, in huge volumes--deficit spending, tax cuts, low interest rates, record defense spending--yet the new jobs #s are lower than last month, and not large.

Many also don't understand that deficits mean that (a) they will pay higher interest rates soon and (b) borrowing now means you have to pay back more later, so you will have less to invest in more productive ventures in the future. I wish Kerry could explain this by reference to household analogies--"if you borrow against your home equity, you can enjoy a nice vacation now--so no wonder some of you think things are going well now--you're on vacation!--but you have to pay that money back", etc.
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drfemoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 09:00 AM
Response to Original message
9. Won't Erase Debt ..
Edited on Fri May-07-04 09:03 AM by drfemoe
Greenspan issues warning on growing federal deficit

By MARILYN GEEWAX
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 05/07/04

WASHINGTON — Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan issued an unusually stern warning Thursday that burgeoning federal deficits could threaten the economy's stability.

Greenspan, who heads the nation's central bank, said Congress' failure to plan for paying for baby boomers' retirement benefits presents "a significant obstacle to long-term stability."
...
But "that is certainly not the case for our yawning fiscal deficit," he said. "Our fiscal prospects are, in my judgment, a significant obstacle to long-term stability because the budget deficit is not readily subject to correction by market forces that stabilize other imbalances."

The Bush administration estimates this year's federal deficit will hit a record $521 billion, or roughly 4.25 percent of the total economy. In fiscal 2000, the government had a record surplus of more than $236 billion.
...

http://www.ajc.com/news/content/business/0504/07greenspan.html

You can bet whoosh*co will try to spin the *recovery* figures.
We're smarter than that, yes?

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mrgorth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
16. You guys DO realize
I'm posting this so it can be debunked. I know the economy sucks.
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Monte Carlo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #16
27. It's just one facet of the giant economic picture.
Some 200-300 thousand jobs added in a month is a good rate. That's undeniable.

But this is just one stat of many, many other tools that help people to analyze the economy - they are not the economy themselves.

We're still just emerging from the recent recession. We are technically in an economic upturn, but it is sluggish and no one knows if this current trend will last.

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Selwynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
21. Good - a lot of my good friends need work.
I don't want real people to suffer just for political gain. I'm happy if employment numbers are getting better.
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Nicholas_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
22. What is not revealed
Is like the last set of figures, in which claomes were made for 360,000 new jobs being added, that 307,000 of those were part time, relatively low paying jobs.
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Frodo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #22
28. Got a link for that?
It turns out not to be true. Not even close.
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Nicholas_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Heard it on
Edited on Fri May-07-04 09:14 PM by Nicholas_J
PBS Nightly News and the O'Franken Factor.

Tonight ABC News Reported that most of this months new jobs were the same thing. Mostly Part time work, mostly in the service industry, mostly people taking kobs out of desperation and a great deal of underemployment with people who are taking as much as 75 percent salary cuts to go back to work becauses they have been out of work for so long, and were layed off of well paying jobs wthat they had for decades with places like GM and Ford and other things. They did a few nice little interviews with people who took those jobs at 75 percent pay cuts.

This is typical of Republican administrations where they create an artficial job shortage for just long ennough for people to be willing to take new jobs being created at at lower salaries. It happened during the Reagan Administration, same thing with George H.W. Bush

When Democrats come in, they do stuff like CLinton, where the new jobs are creates in new sectors, because the Dems focus on creating new small bsinesses and create ecoonomic conditions that foster those compaies expanding and raising salaries. REpublican administrations consistantly focus on large businesses, do not support small business creation, and create an economic environment in which large businesses do big layoffs, get rid of long time employees, have the fiscal resources to hold out during the so called crisis, and then start to hire for the old jobs again at lower salaries.

It was a news blurb during an O'Franken several weeks ago that reported that 307,000 of the 360,000 jobs created in March were low paying service industry and jobs with greatly dropped salaries.

Another report (on Air America again) however indicated that 100,000 of the jobs were not new jobs, but rehires of people who were out on strike, going back to work once the strikes were over.

Both O'Franken and PBS did news reports opeople who were making 100,000 a year going back to work in the same field, but accepting salaries like 30,000 a year in order to keep life and limb together.

Since the great depression, most REpublican Administrations have created enironments in which the stock market does not do well, and then they work to bring it up a bit, but the market stays relatively flat, compared to the previous democratic administration. Just as is happening during this Bush Adminstration. BUsh let the market crap out, and then worked to bring it back to the levels that existed at the end of the Clinton Administration, and it will hand somplace between 10 and 11 thousand as long as Bush stays in office.

Check it out. sme thing happened during the Reagan and Bush I years where in a 12 year period the market only went up by about 50 percent in 12 years, but during the Clinton Administration there was a 250 percent increase in the markets during an 8 year period.

Overlaying a chart of administrations between 1929 and the present shows that most historical benhmarks and the largest increases in markets occured during Democratic Administrations, while most events named Black (select your day of the week) occured during Republican Administrations, who run fairly consistant bear markets.

I have a neat little pamphlet that was written by some old guy who started investing during the great depression, that came with something like Money Magazine, where this guy did just that, an overlay of the markets with administration, and his comclusion was if you want to get rich, start investing at the beginning of a Democratic Administration after several years of Republican rule.

You go back clear to the End of Fords administration adn watch what happened for example:


1975 8.5

Carter
1976 7.7
1977 7.1
1978 6.1
1979 5.8

Reagan
1980 7.1
1981 7.6
1982 9.7
1983 9.6
1984 7.5
1985 7.2
1986 7.0
1987 6.2
1988 5.5

Bush I
1989 5.3
1990 5.6
1991 6.8
1992 7.5

Clinton

1993 6.9
1994 6.1
1995 5.6
1996 5.4
1997

I 5.3
II 4.9
III 4.9


If you notice the trend, during Democratic Administrations, Unemployment works its way towards the lowest levels during the period
but you note that during Reagans Admnistration, a lot of the time unemployment was kept at historically high levels, and only brought down at the time that Reagan had served 2 terms and could not serve again, but needed to provide something in the economy that would keep the Republican who was running to flll Reagans seat, just in time to check a poor employment rate from harming the Republican candidate.

Reagan kept it relatively high until Bush had to Run. Carter with a a terrible economic environment due to the large jumps in oil prices during his term managed to bring down unemployment to very low levels, from highs created under Ford.

But right now I am listening to Robert Reich on PBS (Wall Street Week in Review) again pointing out thesame thing. ALmost all of the new jobs created in the last two months have been low end, very low paying, no benefit, service industry jobs.
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Kat45 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
32. I'd say use of the verb "surged" is overstating the case, spinning
it more favorably for the repugs. I'm still barely finding any jobs to apply for; my last interview was months ago.
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Thrill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. Kerry better have someone doing a study
on this. So he will be primed for it in debates
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shivaji Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
34. Lets face it....this job growth is BAD NEWS all the way
for Kerry and there is no way to shove it under the rug.

To think otherwise is burying our heads under the sand like
an ostrich.

However, like I have said umpteen times before, this election
can be won by emphasizing HEALTH CARE COST & AVAILABILITY which
is affecting everyone big time, even those covered by employers.
My contributions jumped a whopping 35% over a year ago.

Another winning issue for us is Environmental abuses such as
mercury in water & pcb's in drinking water.

Kerry should also exploit women's issues such as choice.
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