Lies about Clinton's NAFTA view debunked by someone who was there

[jackson_dem]

This is consistent with what two of her biographers, including the notoriously anti-Clinton Bernstein, have found.

-snip-

"Part of her concern was clearly about timing," he says. It took the Clinton administration about six months to get its budget passed.

-snip-

But there was also a question about the substance of NAFTA.

"The was considerable division within the White House about whether NAFTA was right on the merits," says Gergen, "and I always associate her with those who had questions about it on the merits."

-snip-

Then the decision was made and the first lady fell in line, along with the rest of the administration, Gergen says, to help get NAFTA passed.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/03/gergen-hillary.html

-snip-

Once again the Obama campaign is demonstrating that Senator Obama's words can't be trusted. Last year, Senator Obama said that he would not engage in personal attacks. Now, after losses in Ohio and Texas, the Obama campaign is explicitly attacking Senator Clinton's character. Instead of attacking Senator Clinton, Senator Obama should explain to the American people why his top economic policy advisor was telling the Canadians that his promise to fix NAFTA shouldn’t be taken seriously. The fact is that independent accounts make clear that Senator Clinton did not support NAFTA and that she is the candidate Americans can trust to fix it. —Campaign Spokesman Phil Singer

http://facts.hillaryhub.com/archive/?id=6639

[JeffR]

1. So hillaryhub is the new unimpeachable source here?

Now that Newsmax et al. haven't panned out?

Keep stretching. I hear it's as good as yoga.

[jackson_dem]

2. Once again an Obamite responses robotically without reading

[JeffR]

8. Oh, I read it.

And this Obamite, as you politely refer to supporters of a Democratic senator and candidate, came to support him only the day after he gave his speech in response to the recent racial witch hunt. Nice try. I can only wonder which side you're really on in all this. That's not an accusation, BTW. You just make it goddamn difficult to tell sometimes.

[jackson_dem]

24. Gergen works for Hillaryhub?

[JeffR]

35. Gergen, though a rational and generally fair commentator,

worked directly for Bill Clinton. That doesn't necessarily make his comments biased, but it does throw a shadow over them, yes.

[rodeodance]

40. NO,

in David's case he has always been objective.

[emilyg]

22. I gave you too much credit for objectivity.

My bad.

[SaveOurDemocracy]

42. Blinded by the hate, huh?

If you're a member of the O-Team, and it's about HRC ...

GOOD = LIE

BAD = TRUTH

Anything in the middle ... twist and spin into something damning.


Those are your marching orders ... go forth and pillage.

[ingac70]

3. She privately questioned NAFTAs merits while publicly PROMOTING it?

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/03/clintons-1993-n.html

Clinton's 1993 NAFTA Meeting

"For people who worked hard to pass NAFTA and who support the importance of markets opening for the economy in the long term, they're very upset. A number of the women who were there are very upset. You need to have some integrity in your position. The Clintons when Bill Clinton was president took a moderate position on trade for Democrats. For her to repudiate that now seems pretty phony."

Recalls a second attendee, "they were looking for women in international trade who supported NAFTA. Senator Clinton came by at the end. And of course she asked for our support and help in passing NAFTA."

[OzarkDem]

13. She didn't promote anything

She was working behind the scenes then, get it? Promoting it wasn't her job.

[ingac70]

21. .....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jW4XPRA2jIk&feature=related

[jackson_dem]

26. Gergen addresses that. Read the OP. This is what all administrations do

[ingac70]

30. Excuses, excuses...

if she had had any integrity, she would have spoke out in PUBLIC before it passed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jW4XPRA2jIk&feature=related

[SaveOurDemocracy]

43. You want them to READ???

HAVE YOU LOST YOUR MIND, MAN?!! Critical thinking is a NO-NO!

[Mezzo]

33. Kinda like Barack Obama SAYING he was against the war, but then NOT saying it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lN30M6StFfk

[bowens43]

4. more spin from hillarys tricksters......

pathetic

[jackson_dem]

27. Gergen works for Clinton? You are the second Obamite to suggest that so far

[lligrd]

5. Fell In Line, That Is Exactly The Problem

She constantly falls in line even when she shouldn't. She did it with the IWR too. I want someone courageous enough to refuse to fall in line when the line is immoral or not in America's interest.

[OzarkDem]

15. Her husband was President

What, did you expect her to overrule him?

[lligrd]

25. She Should Have Refused To Help Get It Passed

if she thought it had problems.

[SaveOurDemocracy]

45. Wow ... you guys really ARE that naive!

:freak:

[lligrd]

47. Hmmm, Doing What Is Right Is Naive?

Is that you, Dick?

[emilyg]

17. She was not President. What did you want her to do?

[lligrd]

23. I Want Her To Do What Is Right

Is that so hard?

[emilyg]

34. In my opinion she is doing just that.

Can't please everybody.

[lligrd]

46. But She Said It Wasn't Right

so which is it? Was NAFTA right or not? Can't Hillary make up her mind? Can you?

[Johnny__Motown]

6. There are similar quotes on both sides here. all the documentation is against her claims

It looks like you are just using more lies to cover up the first lies.

[JeffR]

9. shhh... you don't wanna wake the OP from his little opium dream

on second thought, have at it. Let's make some noise!
:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

[chocome]

7. o abcnews are not Trustworthy...oh I forgot...thats only when its cover postive Obama news

what a fucker..

[ingac70]

10. ....

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/03/clintons-1993-n.html

Fail to read the links contained in the first one?

[ingac70]

11. I saw Gergen on CNN last night...

and he sat there and said Hillary promoted NAFTA.. her only supposed complaints about it were in private.

[durrrty libby]

14. video of his exact words

Fmr. Clinton adviser confirms Hillary was critical of NAFTA



ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQJxtzLQ51Q

[ingac70]

19. IN PRIVATE...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jW4XPRA2jIk&feature=related

[OzarkDem]

12. For those of us watching the NAFTA debate back then

this is consistent. The Clinton WH wavered a lot on NAFTA & GATT. They were pretty much stuck with it, but decided to use the Congressional support they had to make as many changes as they could to improve it, since it was going to be passed anyway. They ended up getting the provisions added to protect the environment and wages and to have stronger enforcement to prevent "dumping" cheap products into the US market.

There were members of the Clinton administration who were bullish on NAFTA (including Commerce Secy Ron Brown, IIRC) who pushed hard for it. Bill ended up somewhere in the middle. He thought if trade agreements could be fairly and carefully expanded, they could stabilize 3rd world economies and end a lot of the political strife, genocide, etc. that was causing regional wars by bringing manufacturing and jobs. He wanted to balance that by investing heavily into high tech manufacturing in the US economy and retraining US workers to move our economy up a notch to replace any job losses here.

It was a comprehensive plan that, if followed carefully and regulated, could have worked. But Bush took office, removed the protections from the trade agreements and stopped investing in high tech industry and jobs.

Those things are not Clinton's fault, but Bush's.

[JeffR]

16. I seldom agree with you, but I think you're right about this.

But it's similar to what I remember about the supposed strategy I remember behind Bill caving on welfare reform, which to me as a musician boils down to: Let's go with it and try to fix it in the mix. Didn't really work back in the 90s and won't really work now, though it might sell a ton of albums in the interim.

[OzarkDem]

38. The difference w/ welfare reform

was that the implementation of it was left up to the states. Once again, the original plan developed by Clinton was workable, but the GOP Congress wanted "local control". Each state was given the money to design their own programs - some did a good job, others were very punitive. States like Ohio actually refused to spend all of their federal allotment of these funds and instead sent them back to the federal government. Clinton can't be blamed for that.

It worked well in some states, not well in others.

[JeffR]

41. True, and fair enough,

though I think leaving it up to the states was less a matter of constitutional necessity than political convenience. I might be wrong. In general, at least, I agree with you on this. That probably won't happen again soon, but it's nice to find common ground with a fellow Dem I usually disagree with.

[durrrty libby]

18. shhh... you don't wanna wake sheep from "Hopium" dreams

[rodeodance]

39. Bush's

anti regulation has suck it.

[anonymous171]

20. "She fell in line." What a fighter!

[jackson_dem]

28. Just like Obama will do if he is VP. That is how administrations work

[anonymous171]

29. So she's not a fighter? Or only for convience sake?

[rodeodance]

37. That is what BO does: He gave a race speech cause it was politically expedient to do so.

[elixir]

31. good post.

[Mezzo]

32. IOKIYBO nt

[rodeodance]

36. REC

[crankychatter]

44. She said NAFTA was good in front of GOD AND ALL MANKIND!

WTF ARE YOU STILL YARFING ABOUT?