Time to adjust.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

I was four square against the Iraq war but I could accept the notion put out there by Kerry, Dean and Clark that we couldn't just abandon Iraq to anarchy. I could also rationalize the thesis that capable leaders changed their opinions (flip-flopped?) when faced with new information (notably Dean and Kerry). It's time to bring these two notions together. Things have changed in Iraq. It is now completely unwinnable. It's time for our leaders to recognize this fact.

The Democratic candidates are still pushing policy positions from a year ago. But things have changed. More troops won't fix it. UN troops won't fix it. Troops from neighboring Arab countries won't fix it. NATO troops won't fix it. TROOPS won't fix it.

In the face of Fallujah and Najaf. In the face of Spanish withdrawal. In the face of American torture. Things have changed. Why hasn't policy?

Time to bring the boys(& girls) home.

[lastknowngood]

1. stay the course stay the course don't wont to look week on

"defense" <sarcasm off>

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

2. Thousand points of light.

[LWolf]

3. It is past time to bring them home.

But better late than never, for those still living.

http://www.kucinich.us/

<snip>

"What could possibly be worse than an obscene war that dehumanizes the Iraqi people who were promised freedom from tyranny and terror?" Kucinich asked. "The only thing worse is to remain there -- as occupiers, as targets, and as perceived enemies of the very principles of liberty and decency that we claim to believe in -- in even greater numbers and force, with no end in sight." Kucinich, a Congressman from Ohio, blamed the Bush Administration for creating the environment that led to the abuses and for failing to take swift action to deal with them. "We have not begun to go far enough to examine the true intent and conduct of the leadership of this country" he said, nor "have we gone far enough to bring an end to this unjustified war."

[bigwillq]

4. Do you think the U.S. will look like a failure if all the troops

withdraw at once?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

5. Yes.

Do you think they'll look like a failure if they are gradually withdrawn?


The key here is what remains when the forces are gone, whether they leave in toto or they are gradually withdrawn. I think we've lost our ability to place our imprimatur on their form of government(I'm not sure if we ever had it). I think ultimately there will be a civil war or, if they're smart, they'll regionalize the governments to conform to the indigenous populations. The possibility of a democracy is unattainable via the auspices of the US. We've lost moral suasion. The only difference between an immediate pullout and a gradual one is the number of people that die. Furthermore, a gradual withdrawal risks further alienating the Iraqis, if that's possible.