Lets be clear.. If Obama is Ahead in Popular Vote and Pledged Delegates.

[meow mix]

and the Supers throw the election for Hillary anyway.

It is the END of the Democratic Party.
a Stampede will begin OUT and catastrophic collaspe will result.

i believe they understand this as true.
its not gonna happen.

the best Hillary supporters can hope for is a VP spot. and that being the case you and your candidate better shape up and try to show more class.

[Bluebear]

1. 'you and your candidate better shape up and try to show more class.' OMG

No comment.

[gateley]

2. I don't understand the dire warnings

of the "end" of the Democratic Party.

Where would we go?

[frogcycle]

5. it would be the END of the influx of newbies and crossovers

the END, I say! the END! they will hold their breath 'til they turn blue, they will stomp their feet; they will shake their fists! And they will storm out in a huff.

Then they will stop, look around, say "oh, wait. I don't want to be a repuglican"

[Blondiegrrl]

20. There are more than two political parties, you know. n/t

[gateley]

36. Yes - but at this point, there are very few

representatives registered as Independents, Libertarians or Communists.

I guess if our elected officials quit the party, that would make sense, but I think I was assuming they wouldn't -- politics, you know.

[gateley]

35. ...

:7

[Blondiegrrl]

19. They'd leave the party and register as Independents.

I know I would.

The voters should decide the nominee, not 800-some party elites.

[frogcycle]

27. and that would matter how?

what the hell difference does it make how you are registered? In many states you can vote in whichever primary you want anyway. And if there were fewer dems registered, they'd still have a primary and somebody would win. Unless your "independent" party is going to run a viable candidate, it is moot.

Personally I think an end to both parties is long overdue. We need four parties roughly equal in size. Get rid of all the "majority party" shit in congress.

[gateley]

38. That's what I don't understand.

I'm currently registered as "uncommitted" but we have open primaries so I'm okay on that score.

If we register as independents, we still will mostly have the same crop of Dems and Reps to vote for, unless those currently holding office bail too.

I agree about thinking we're overdue for a change. It was being discussed on a thread the other day, citing the countries that have four parties, and -- I LOVE THIS -- the people can vote "no confidence" to remove someone from office. That seems much more democratic to me than the way it is now.

[Maine-ah]

39. then you would be the reason a republican will be the next pres

I currently support Obama. I originally supported Kucinich. If HRC ends up as the nominee, I will vote for her.

[earthlover]

29. to hell in a handbasket?

In the short term, it would be impossible to organize another party in time for the 08 election. What would happen in 08 would be a massive turnoff...resulting in hordes of other-wise voters to stay home or vote for another candidate. Most likely stay home.

It could have long term splintering too. Perhaps another Third Party? Well, at this point, that would be total conjecture since I don't know who would lead such an undertaking.

More likely result would be a major turn-off to politics and the Democratic Party among the new voters who were going to be participants in 08. The independents, young voters, minorities...etc....who came to the primaries in record numbers. Ironically and tragically many of these would be turned off to the whole shit bag. Perhaps for a long time. A classic case of taking defeat out of the jaws of victory.

[KingOfLostSouls]

3. Actually I agree

I think that was what bill richardson was hinting at in his interview with KO on friday.

I'm hoping he and some of the others can step in and really get things moving in a better direction. the past 3 weeks have been dreadful for the party as a whole.

likewise, if hillary comes out ahead and they throw it for obama then same thing



but the people saying that they're going to stomp their feet, cry like a girl, and take their ball and go home and vote for mccain if their candidate doesn't get their way are douchebags.

[frogcycle]

6. not douchbags

dickheads

[meow mix]

8. yup, i should mention ive never had my candidate win a primary

im pretty used to it myself. lol

but in this primary.. at this time. the block of people would walk if that happened = death.

and i agree with the same in respects to hillary.

[earthlover]

30. more likely result would be to stay home, if nomination is thrown....

This is 100% predictable. The party must know this too. So if they would nominate someone other than the leader in the vote and delegates, they are basically turning the Democratic fight in 08 into another Battle of the Alamo. Another noble fight with no chance of survival.

[CoffeeCat]

4. The Supers understand that...no worries.

The Supers will not thwart the will of the people.

It's just not going to happen.

Hillary needs the Supers now more than ever. They're working them day and night. It's
not working. If you look at the slow trickle of Supers endorsing--they are going for Obama.

We will be fine. Obama will do well in the remaining contests and continue his lead in delegates
and popular vote.

All is well.

[John Q. Citizen]

7. The Supers are trending heavily toward Obama for weeks. That's why I'm not worried.

And Hill will not get a VP slot. But if she doesn't behave herself she going to end up on the outs.

[rug]

9. If she doesn't behave herself you and meow mix can drag her back into the kitchen.

[John Q. Citizen]

11. No, we will just send her to bed without her committee assignments.

[rug]

13. Some women should just shut up and play along.

[John Q. Citizen]

28. If massively shooting herself in the foot somehow equates to asserting herself then I'm

wondering what her problem is. Back to the charge card for more funds so she can promote McCain?

[gateley]

44. I don't think she'll promote McCain --

she's just using him to promote herself now (not that I like how she's doing it).

I have faith that she'll do the right thing if Obama gets the nom.

[Arugula Latte]

15. So just because she's a woman means she's excused from acting like a civilized candidate?

As a woman, I find that attitude insulting.

[rug]

26. Do you find "behave yourself" insulting?

[L0oniX]

10. If Clinton should win the GE we will lose dem seats...

just like the last time the Clintons were in power. Same ol song and dance. Up is down and left is right with the Hillbots ...like it doesn't matter that she would have to win at least 60% of all remaining states votes and delegates just to break even with Obama. But hey ...go on with your LSD trip. The only hope for the Hillbots is for the super delegates to usurp the popular vote and the delegate votes: in other words ...cheat to win. Typical Clinton technique

[xultar]

12. But what if Hillary is ahead in the popular vote but SD go Obama. Then what?

Would that be fine with you?

Just checking.

[Blondiegrrl]

25. Popular vote or pledged delegates? Because Pelosi has made it clear

that this race is decided by pledged delegates. There is no way to accurately count popular vote in all the caucus states.

Should Clinton surge ahead in pledged delegates, then then the SD should nominate her, IMO.

[maddiejoan]

40. and Pelosi has made soooo many wonderful decisions

for our Party.

[Blondiegrrl]

14. Very astute observation. I concur.

The superdelegates WILL nominate Obama. Of that I am certain.

[emilyg]

18. Death is the only certain thing in life.

[Blondiegrrl]

24. ... and taxes. But I have full confidence that Obama has the nom.

[AZBlue]

16. I will take to the streets.

[ecstatic]

17. Correct. That is my line in the sand. Three strikes

Florida '00, Ohio '04, and Superdelegate-Gate '08 would mark the end of my membership in this party.

[FlyingSquirrel]

21. Hmmm

With the kind of money and support he has, he could run as an Independent

Just sayin.......

[gateley]

45. OT -- Squirrel --

WHAT is that pic you're using for an avatar? I can't make it out. (Should I be afraid to ask?)

[FlyingSquirrel]

49. Oh, it was supposed to be an "Obamatron"

It didn't work out very well

[gateley]

50. Awww. That's so cute - thanks for the smile. nt

[Ravy]

22. You had me until the last half of your last sentence.

Speaking of a lack of class...

[madrchsod]

23. how many people remember the films

or the live broadcast of the chicago convention? that was the day the party died...

[gateley]

46. I remember seeing McGovern come out of his hotel in shirtsleeves

to talk with the demonstrators.

For some reason that struck me - I'd never seen Nixon in shirtsleeves OR look like he actually cared enough about the people.

[ORDem]

31. Fuggedaboutit, ain't gonna happen. The SDs remember the 90s well,

no '92 coattails for Bill (in fact we lost 9 seats in the House) and then the disastrous '94 election where the Goopers took over Congress, something they hadn't done since '54! Yikes. All of Hillary's kitchen sink crap is just reminding them.

:dem:

[bhikkhu]

32. That boat already sailed...not gonna happen.

The whole gd america thing threw open the door, and not one SD budged.

Right now Obama has come back in fantastic form, while Hillary struggles for a message that will salvage a broke and far behind campaign....

[greyghost]

34. Damn straight.

[VolcanoJen]

53. I can think of one who budged.

Bill Richardson.

I rest my case. :-)

Damn straight, bhikkhu!

[greyghost]

33. It is over for Hillary, the party leadership needs to step up like

Bill Richardson just did.

[shadowknows69]

37. The African American and younger voters will return to apathy

[debbierlus]

41. She needs to drop the hell out. And, I voted for her

The fact that she will keep the party divided for her own political chances sickens me.

I was wrong to vote for her on Super Tuesday.

[gateley]

47. You voted for who you felt was best for our country at the time --

be gentle to yourself. :hug:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

42. If That Happened, It Would Be For Legitimate Reasons. Most Would Understand That.

There's a lot of what if bullshit that gets thrown around, and people feign their outrage towards it at the drop of a pin. But what you and others need to realize, is that the only way the superdelegates would give the nomination to Hillary when Obama has the PV and delegate advantage, is if from now till then it becomes CRYSTAL CLEAR that Obama is unelectable, too risky or a blatantly weaker GE candidate than Hillary. That's the ONLY reason they'd do that, and there would've been a lot of thought put into it. Though it could happen, it's doubtful that he would plummet that much by then. But if it DID happen, then the absolute RIGHT thing to do would be for the SD's to make sure the better candidate made it to the GE, and that is in fact what they're there for. Under those terms, and if it was readily explainable and easy to show why, then I'd have confidence that the majority of democrats wouldn't be outraged at all, but would be quite understanding of the situation; since at the end of the day what democrats all REALLY want is the best candidate to take on McCain and WIN.

So no, if it were to happen it would NOT be the end of the Democratic Party by a long shot. If it were to happen, it would happen for good logical reasons that most in the party would support and understand, regardless of some of the extreme supporters that would get their panties in a bunch. But overall? We'd be just fine.

[gateley]

48. You make a lot of sense here, OMC. nt

[backscatter712]

43. She's gonna get Huckabee'd in the next few weeks.

She's having cash-flow problems, again, the latest swiftboat attack on Obama fizzled when he responded with his speech, impressing Bill Richardson enough to endorse him, and now she's starting to get blowback from all the negative attack-campaigning.

The media's gonna lose interest now that they feel the blowback from their part in the Wright swiftboating, and start to realize the cash flow problems from her campaign are going to continue, thus affecting the number of ad buys she can make,

She'll still make attacks here and there, and make a few appearances and get some time on the news, but increasingly, the party, the people and the media are going to focus on Obama.

[Tom Rinaldo]

51. If Obama loses 8 of the last 10 contests

If the voters of Michigan and Florida do not get the delegates they selected seated or a valid revote instead, if Obama screws up royally around some new controversy and/or is running ten points behind Hillary Clinton in the national polls for the Democratic nomination and 8 points worse than Hillary Clinton in polls of match ups against McCain...

Your position would be foolish and not followed, especially if the pledged delegate count falls within a hundred delegates of each other by that time also.

The odds don't favor all or most of that happening. Obama is the clear favorite now, but this is not locked in stone yet nor should it be.

[krkaufman]

52. The "popular vote" cannot be used as a measure for selecting the nominee ...

... as it is only reflective of the vote in states that held primaries.

[Whisp]

54. maybe that's the whole idea.

get rid of all us 'extremist radical fringe nutbar anti-american lefties' and rely on the centrists gone to the right 'base', like bush does.

[Tom Rinaldo]

55. Dum, dum dum, da dum, dum dum, Deep in the heart of Texas...

How many of the "the popular will must be respected" folks on this thread have been singing the same song about Texas?

How many here celebrated Obama's "victory" in Texas when he emerged with more delegates than Clinton even though he lost the popular vote in the primary, because a small sub set of the primary voters got a second chance to swing delegate support to Obama instead?

Clinton got the popular vote that reflected the will of all of the Texans who participated in the contests that day, but Obama "won" Texas according to many Obama supporters here and that is just fine by them. A win is a win after all. It was allowed by the rules.