Why don't Dean supporters argue for Dean for VP? Considering how devoted

[AP]

they were to the primary race for the nomination, you'd think there'd be a more vociferous Dean for VP movement.

To what are all those supporters devoting their energies these days?

[Champ]

1. Maybe winning the election

:shrug:

[alexwcovington]

5. Boo! Hiss!

Cheap, unwarranted shot. Thank you Anti-Dean brigade for breaking the ceasefire!

[Colin Ex]

8. I thought it was funny.

Unwarranted, but funny.

-C

[alexwcovington]

9. This could get ugly fast.

Blargh! Meh!

[Colin Ex]

10. Dude, let's face it.

Every thread in GD2004 or GD lately has gotten ugly fast.

People are going apeshit.

-C

[AP]

28. I think this thread has displayed intelligent, introspective, calm...

...analysis, by the way.

[LandOLincoln]

15. Kindly explain to me why this is a cheapshot?

Of course Dean and his true supporters are working hard to ensure the Dems win the election.

Dean's a politician, and a good one. It's too bad so many of his so-called supporters are petulant spoiled brats.

[SharonAnn]

2. We're smart enough to know that Kerry's ticket is not

best balanced by another New Englander. Even Howard Dean himself has said this.

We want to get Kerry elected since he's the nominee this time.

Also, some of us are working with Dean's organization Democracy for America in support of Democratic principles.

[Padraig18]

20. Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!

Beautifully said, and entirely in line with THIS Dean (now kerry) supporter's sentiments! :thumbsup:

[Justitia]

3. As much as I'd LOVE it....

- I think Kerry wants NO PART of Howard Dean, in any capacity

- The DLCers heads would explode before they would allow it

So, as an ardent Dean supporter, I guess I'm saying I see it as an exercise in futility - why bother?

However, I think Dean would make an EXCELLENT pit bull for Kerry, and Kerry is pissing away the opportunity.

Howard Dean ~ The Anti-Cheney

[zeemike]

13. You are right

The DLC would never allow it.
And they do not want a pit bull to go after Bush, they want a close election… one that bush can steal.

[alexwcovington]

4. Personality.

Dean's personality can't fit in the veep slot. I supported the guy through hell and media damnation, but his campaign is over.

Clark, Edwards, Gephardt, Lieberman, (and why doesn't anyone mention Moseley-Braun?) -- they're laid-back enough to be VP. But Dean couldn't fit in anything but the Presidency.

[ima_sinnic]

6. Kerrry could care less what any of us want

--I don't want to waste my energy.

[Guaranteed]

7. He's just too good to be Kerry's VP.

:)

[DieboldMustDie]

11. Dean's from a state with 3 electoral votes...

that will very likely vote Democratic anyway. HHS secretary perhaps?

[alexwcovington]

12. Naw, Kucinich for HHS

Dean in the Cabinet? I wouldn't hold my breath for that either.

[w13rd0]

14. I second that...

...I think he can do more for a positive progressive future outside a Kerry administration. And from above, yes, another NEer isn't a viable option. I think the two candidates whose supporters you'll see auditioning them for the VP slot the most are Edwards or Clark, both of whom would be acceptable choices. Heck, I voted for Gore, and he selected Lieberman for VP.

But Dean? Nah, I'm focusing my efforts at solidifying the support of the leaning but perhaps lacking motivation and needing a reminder, and the flip side of the coin, I'm working on Independents and Republicans that lean Bush, trying to drive up Bush's negatives so they'll stay home on election day.

I tend to think that Kerry will win if Bush loses, and that's good enough for me. Kerry will be a far better president than Bush, and being someone who wasn't necessarily a Clinton fan, but found him far more acceptable than what we have now, I'm ok with that, for now...

[belle]

16. Yes to all that. As to what Dean is up to:

http://www.democracyforamerica.com/

And rumors of a talk show in the works.

[arcos]

17. Cheney is from a state with 3 electoral votes

who would've voted GOP anyway...

[bklyncowgirl]

18. The only way Dean as VP makes sense would be to counter Nader

Nader is a threat but not, at this point a huge one.

I do think that Kerry should choose an antiwar VP but Graham or Clark offer more value to the ticket.

[union_maid]

19. That's really unfair

Dean knows why that's not a consideration and he said so. Two New Englanders are not the same as two southerners. It would be really crazy to have on candidate from MA and one from VT on the ticket. You don't have to look any deeper than geography. If there are other reasons, it doesn't matter because that one thing is an overwhelming reason.

[dsc]

21. It is a bad fit

I love Howard Dean, had Edwards won I would be saying Dean for VP. Had Lieberman or Gephardt won I might be saying Dean for VP. But Dean and Kerry are a poor fit. I have been working on my local Congressional race, and turnout efforts in Cleveland. Plus we are likely to have an anti gay marriage amendment and that will take up a good deal of my free time.

[WI_DEM]

22. I personally would love it

I think he would be the ideal VP for Kerry except for one aspect that they are both from new england--of course the south wouldn't like that at all, so that is one reason it couldn't happen--but Dean, more than anyone helps Kerry where he is weakest and that is with progressive and anti-war Independents many of whom are swing voters and many of whom are flirting with Nader or the Green party. He was a Governor where Kerry is a senator. He would fill the VP role in a campaign as far as being an attack dog--allowing Kerry to be above the battle to a certain extent. Above all this election it is getting clearer is going to be about Iraq and everything that Dean has said in the past couple of years on Iraq has come to pass.

[RogueTrooper]

23. Dean would be the perfect VP choice

were it not for him coming from the North East. He has said that, if, Kerry asked him, he would advise against it because of the regional issue.

[NoPasaran]

24. This Dean supporter

Is devoting himself to making Democracy for Texas an effective organization, retaking our Legislature AND electing John Kerry President. I know that Howard Dean is not going to be Kerry's running mate so there's point wasting any energy on it.

[mermaidinaustin]

30. Dean is better suited as President.............

The thing about Kerry is he seems weak and what I like about Dean is he was willing to say what we were thinking, he didn't care where the shoe dropped. Not a politician but a real American with a passion for what he believes in.

I am worried that Kerry will be BAU in Washington, but I will vote for him.

[NoPasaran]

32. Welcome to DU!

:hi:
I'm not going to say that Kerry is weak, maybe "nuanced" is a better term.
For me, Dean's two great attractions were that he talked to voters like they were adults and he challenged people to get involved in actually doing things. I'm starting to see some changes in Kerry's campaign along those lines which I can only applaud as his campaign strategists figure out how to relate to the upsurge in grassroots Democratic activism---which the Dean movement is a large part, but by no means the whole.

[apnu]

25. Dean has moved on ....

... to bigger and better things and many of his supporters have followed. Personally I like the idea that he's still "outside" DC. What he's doing is important, necessary and sorely needed.

Go Dean!

[LoZoccolo]

26. Getting in useless arguments on a message board.

Seriously though, I don't think Dean would get enough Kerry votes that Kerry couldn't get himself, so even I don't think he'd be the best VP choice. Clark might be, though.

[DFLforever]

27. Because we're realistic

Dean is no more acceptable as VP than as Pres to the party leadership, in its current pro-corp, DLC form.

Some Dean people in our state will be working in the 6th Congressional district where Patty Wetterling will be challenging Repuke Mark Kennedy. It's a long, long shot because the district was drawn as a safe Repuke seat, but many of the MNDean people, led by the great mayor of Minneapolis, are committed to helping her campaign.

I'm following Dean's advice which is, work to get Kerry elected, but if you can't do that, work on a campaign you do believe in. Keep fighting for democracy in America.

Congressional, state and local election support is part of DFA 2.0's program. Dean says over 500 campaigns have contacted him asking for help in 2004.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Capn Sunshine]

31. Pragmatism

a trait we admire in Howard Dean,who has postulated we would best devote our efforts locally if we don't like the Kerry Kampaign and the overt hostility displayed towards progressives on democratically oriented websites.

Many that were enthusiastic for Dean are now enthusiastically working to elect congresspeople, Senators, city council and Board of Education and Supervisor candidates who espouse our viewpoints. Since we were unsuccessful in a short cut wholesale takeover of our party we are doing it the old fashioned way. But we're still taking over.

End of rant, I strayed from the topic; the dems were so successful demonizing Howard Dean in the primary that putting him on the ticket would be ill-advised.

Too bad; because though this election will be decided by the progressives, the Kerry people have done scant little to bring them into the fold.

Unless you count the multiple shades of ultimatums issued forth from places like DU.

33. to avoid pointless flame wars

:)


and what the Capn said.

[salin]

34. *snicker* eom

[AP]

36. This thread seems to have been interesting and informative.

But if you're saying that the advocacy itself would result in flame wars, I guess that's another thing.

[bitchkitty]

35. I don't Kerry likes Howard -

just a guess. I don't want Howard playing second fiddle to Kerry - he's so much better than Kerry, that it would be too much for me to take.

[mzmolly]

37. Well, I promoted Dean for VP and it was promplty slapped down.

"WHAT? Two New Englanders on the same ticket *piff/scoff/snort* "

I still maintain that Dean would be a good choice, but last I heard he's not a finalist. :hi:

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[turiya]

39. Kerry won't pick a VP that outshines him

that is a fact.

[drfemoe]

40. Hi AP ..

who actually made me lol once. ;)

Interesting and informative, I agree.

Things are probably working out best for Howard Dean and support.
He seems to like his space away from the Beltway.
He has never really seemed veep material imo. He is a strong leader.

The most pragmatic Dean supporters realized long ago that even if Dean won the whitehouse, all battles would not be suddenly won and resolved. It would be just a (fabulous) beginning. Now, while his organization focuses on House races, and Kerry's campaign moves forward, they could be in the best scenario possible to gain a solid footing to rearrange a few *arrangements*, we'll say.

Dean was a WS banker. He knows how to choose a profitable investment, would be my guess. His current efforts have the potential to bear far greater dividends than if he was hog-tied in the veep spot.

I think Clark would be okay. I was never crazy about him for lots of reasons. But my conservative friends (in the South) like him. I just hope we aren't freaked out when Kerry does make his announcement. Quite a roller coaster ride sometimes, huh?
Thanks for asking, AP.

[AP]

42. Just curious,

I'd love to know what I said that made you laugh (I sure I hope I meant to be funny!).

You wouldn't mind sharing, would you?

[drfemoe]

46. I don't remember exactly ..

it looks like advanced search may still be down.

It was during primary wars. You seemed to get a kick out of it when I told you that's the first time you ever made me lol. But, the tone of the thread overall was not humorous. It was probably a slam-Dean thread.

Maybe it will come to me ..

You can be entertaining at times :+

[JNelson6563]

41. Here's a new concept for you

It's called "reality". We Dean supporters know the old theory about a "balanced ticket". Perhaps you too learned about it in grade school?

Two "northeast liberals" is like handing the GOP a victory on a platter as you know they'd whip the people into a frenzy of fear over birkenstock-wearing, tree-huggin', America hating nor'eastern lib-ruls who "won't keep you safe".

Well, then again, your ignorant question clearly indicates that you likely DON'T know that. So, new to politics are ya?

Julie

[AP]

43. Nice manners.

One of the reasons it struck me that I'd never noticed a Dean VP advocacy thread was this very issue. Reality. Reality doesn't seem to stop a few of the other passionate DU'ers from advocating for their candidate. It seems like two northeasterners on the ticket wouldn't be enough reason not to make the argument for a scenario that would most likely lead to Dean getting to be number 45 if Kerry won, or 44 if he didn't.

And another thing I was trying to tap into is the Clark vs Dean phenomenon. That was the pitched battle here at DU for months. There was so much Dean activism here, it was overwhelming. It has almost totally disappeared. The Clark activism remains.

[madfloridian]

44. Dean/DFA activism is in other forms now, and other places mostly.

There are grassroots groups which are branching out, and many times we work with candidates even from other states. State groups are now being linked gradually at the blog as well.

I remain to advocate for the new organization, and to post things mostly about what Dean continues to do. Some continue to construe it as Kerry criticism, which I do not do now. I prefer to think of it as presenting my view that Democrats must continue to speak out loudly.

As far as Dean for VP, I think not. Too many reasons not to do so, and he is accomplishing a lot more in other ways now.

[Toucano]

45. It think the primary was

pretty filled with acrimony between Dean and Kerry.

I think there may be some personal resentment there that the Dean supporters are more in tune with.

Wasn't there some controversy about Dean not giving his supporter list to the Kerry campaign?

That may have been resolved, but I don't remember hearing it.

[Larkspur]

47. It's not going to happen

1) Dean would be seen as stronger of the 2
2) both are from New England

I've moved on. I've got a project at work to finish, a garden to plan, house to renovate, and I'm going to help out in my CD'S race to help Dems regain the seat lost in 2000.

[zoeyfong]

48. I don't want Dean tainted by being on Kerry's ticket.

For Dean to agree to be VP would be to basically sign on to supporting the Iraq war. Also, it would undermine Kerry's position on the war to have a VP that opposed it.