CatnHat
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Tue Mar-25-08 12:42 AM
Original message |
Obama--Do Rules Count or Not?? |
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If rules are rules concerning the FL delegates being seated, why is Bill Richardson endorsing Obama?
It's a fact that Bill Richardson is a super-delegate, and by the RULES, super-delegates are supposed to vote according to their state's majority. Didn't Hillary win N. Mexico? Same with Kennedy and Kerry.
Whats really fair here. Obama camp made damn sure that the voters in FL and MI are not counted, and now he wants his "endorsed" super-delegates to vote for him while N. Mexico and Mass. went to Hillary.
Rules are rules, and why won't Obama and his "endorsed" super-delegates follow them? It's like GWB administration-guess rules only matter when it benefits Obama and his campaign.
I lost all respect for Obama, and his surrogates. The Obama camp just couldn't care less about the democratic process of fair play. :wtf:
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CreekDog
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Tue Mar-25-08 12:43 AM
Response to Original message |
1. what rule says supers are supposed to vote according to the winner of their state? |
MonkeyFunk
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Tue Mar-25-08 12:43 AM
Response to Original message |
2. There's no rule that says any such thing |
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regarding how superdelegates should vote.
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CatnHat
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Tue Mar-25-08 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #2 |
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the super delegates are SUPPOSED to go with the majority of their state. . . and same goes for pledged delegates--
It really looks bad for Richardson, I wonder how many voters in New Mexico are feeling dissed by Richardson, and in Mass. where Hillary won big--bet Kerry and Kennedy aren't winning many supporters there either; being they went against the wishes of their voters.
Obama is a politician who will stoop to levels that not only disenfranchise voters, but has super-delegates in his corner where the voters did not get their representation due them.
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MonkeyFunk
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Tue Mar-25-08 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #22 |
26. And your suggestion is based on nothing |
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at all. There's no rule, suggestion, expectation or anything of the sort claiming superdelegates should vote the way their states voted.
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JVS
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Tue Mar-25-08 01:07 AM
Original message |
The vote was 49% vs 50% with Clinton winning 3,000 more votes. Not exactly a HUGH mandate. |
verges
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Tue Mar-25-08 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #22 |
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you said rules were actually broken. They weren't. Should the SD's respect the popular or delegate counts from their states? Perhaps. But there is no rule saying they have to. And that is the straw that Sen. Clinton's supporters are keeping a death-grip on.
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K Gardner
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Tue Mar-25-08 12:44 AM
Response to Original message |
3. Is this a joke? Satire? Can anybody possibly really believe this? Stay tuned.. |
ingac70
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Tue Mar-25-08 12:44 AM
Response to Original message |
4. You are grossly misinformed about the rules. n/t |
stranger81
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Tue Mar-25-08 12:44 AM
Response to Original message |
5. how is it even remotely fair to count the MI ballots when Hillary was the only candidate to vote for |
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And you've got the nerve to say it's the Obama camp that doesn't respect the democratic process?!?
This isn't Pakistan, you know. If only one candidate is on your ballot, it's not an election.
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LisaL
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Tue Mar-25-08 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #5 |
8. He took his name off the ballot. |
stranger81
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Tue Mar-25-08 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #8 |
14. per the agreement all the candidates, including Hillary, had struck . . . . |
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The only candidate who reneged was HRC. And my point still stands -- an election with one and only one choice is no election at all.
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MonkeyFunk
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Tue Mar-25-08 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #14 |
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first, Clinton was not the only candidate to stay on the ballot - Dodd, Gravel and Kucinich were also on it.
Second, the pledge di not in any way require the candidates to remove their names from the ballot. That's just a totally made up untruth.
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stranger81
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Tue Mar-25-08 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #19 |
27. what does an agreement to "not participate" mean if not that? [n/t] |
MonkeyFunk
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Tue Mar-25-08 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #27 |
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Nobody at the time claimed the pledge meant they had to remove their names. Not the candidates, not the DNC, not Howard Dean... nobody.
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Warren DeMontague
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Tue Mar-25-08 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #5 |
16. It's fair because the other candidates weren't supposed to REALLY pose a challenge, silly. |
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Sure, Hillary was the only one on the ballot- but at least there WAS a ballot. It was the perfect kind of primary- one where she was the pre-ordained winner.
Why she couldn't have just been given the damn thing 8 months ago, the minute her campaign started issuing proclamations about "inevitability", I really don't know.
:eyes:
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CatnHat
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Tue Mar-25-08 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #5 |
25. Obama was on the ballot |
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in FL. Why did he and camp drag their feet in seating the delegates? When MI wanted to anything to rectify the problem there, Obama camp totally ignored the problem.
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anamandujano
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Tue Mar-25-08 12:44 AM
Response to Original message |
6. Supers being bound by their constituents was a rule Obama made |
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when it looked like it would work for him. When Hillary took Mass, it created a problem, so they changed the rules. It's hard to keep up.
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K Gardner
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Tue Mar-25-08 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #6 |
18. Oh good.. I can add another 12-year-old to my ignore list. I absolutely despise willful |
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ignorance, lying and stupidity. Its hard to keep up with which one accounts for this, but it doesn't really matter. Buh bye.. and its after midnight. Aren't you supposed to be somewhere other than HERE?
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anamandujano
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Tue Mar-25-08 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #18 |
23. Can you hear me noooooooooow? |
tammywammy
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Tue Mar-25-08 12:44 AM
Response to Original message |
7. There is no rule stating Super Delegates must vote as their state did |
Warren DeMontague
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Tue Mar-25-08 12:45 AM
Response to Original message |
9. There is no such "Rule" in the DNC. |
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Maybe the Rule is "Hillary's going to lose, we're desperate, let's make shit up".
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Drunken Irishman
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Tue Mar-25-08 12:46 AM
Response to Original message |
10. Do you know the rules? |
IndependentDem
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Tue Mar-25-08 12:46 AM
Response to Original message |
11. i agree with what you are saying regarding the super-delegates but... |
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i disagree with you regarding the Obama camp making sure that the "voters" in FL and MI are not counted. The Obama camp made sure there was not an unfair or paid for election in FL and MI-- there is a difference in my opinion.
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SunsetDreams
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Tue Mar-25-08 12:46 AM
Response to Original message |
12. I think maybe they are going by Hillarys' rules |
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Edited on Tue Mar-25-08 12:56 AM by SunsetDreams
she said that Superdelegates are put in place to make their own judgement, independent of everything else.
or they could be going by the assumed rules that's been in place for a long time, that the pledged delegates takes it.
Obama didn't make sure that Fl and Mi wouldn't count. Fl and Mi did that. They broke the rules, DNC has rightfully sanctioned them.
It's FL and MI fault, well party leaders there anyway.
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lligrd
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Tue Mar-25-08 12:46 AM
Response to Original message |
13. Do Untruths Count As Lies? |
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Because you have managed to beat even Hillary in both.
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culacano
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Tue Mar-25-08 12:48 AM
Response to Original message |
15. Some rules count, some rules don't |
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It depends on whether or not they favor Obama.
Superdelegates, for example, should not be allowed to vote, as the rules state. States, however, cannot move the primary to an earlier date, because the states that did so favor Clinton over our candidate. Capisce?
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Warren DeMontague
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Tue Mar-25-08 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #15 |
17. Yeah. Some are actual rules, and some are shit people just make up because |
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their candidate is about to lose.
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K Gardner
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Tue Mar-25-08 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #15 |
20. I thought the trollish ones were leaving.. did they send in replacements? |
anamandujano
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Tue Mar-25-08 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #20 |
24. You act more like a troll than anyone. The slightest bit of back talk |
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and you're off to the races.
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Crunchy Frog
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Tue Mar-25-08 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #20 |
29. I think they must have a few sockies going. n/t |
tammywammy
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Tue Mar-25-08 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #15 |
21. You're so uninformed it's hilarious! |
CatnHat
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Tue Mar-25-08 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #21 |
32. Save your comments for yourself |
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when SD are finally counted. Clinton has the lead in SD; and that's who is going to decide this primary.
And as far as Richardson goes--he says he don't want to get in the "gutter" after James Carville make the "Judas" remark; and the next words out of his mouth was slamming Clinton advisor's and surrogates. Obama can have him. His judgment is as good as Obama's. :sarcasm:
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NanceGreggs
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Tue Mar-25-08 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #15 |
34. I'm trying to convince myself ... |
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... that you can't possibly be as stupid as you sound.
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yewberry
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Tue Mar-25-08 01:01 AM
Response to Original message |
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There is no rule about who the SDs must support. Richardson can endorse whoever he wants.
Obama has no say in whether the FL & MI delegations are counted. The DNC made the rule and FL & MI broke it (after they agreed to it). That has NOTHING (repeat for the chronically ignorant: NOTHING) to do with either of the candidates.
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CatnHat
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Tue Mar-25-08 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #28 |
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Obama did nothing to rectify the problem either. He had a chance in MI and didn't even bother to cooperate.
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yewberry
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Tue Mar-25-08 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #33 |
36. I'm trying hard to remain cordial here. |
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The states were given plenty of opportunities to meet the rules that they agreed to. The DNC offered to help, but FL & MI chose to flout the DNC rules. Clinton and Obama had nothing whatsoever to do with what those state parties did to their constituencies.
At this point, we have to deal with what those state parties did. They willfully decided to have their delegates invalidated. The candidates shouldn't have to pay for what the state parties did to their voters. The candidates are (at least on some level) responsible to the rules of the DNC and the voters in the vast majority of states that did follow the rules and would see the seating of the FL & MI delegations as a huge slap in the face.
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40ozDonkey
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Tue Mar-25-08 05:56 AM
Response to Reply #33 |
41. What a worthless, long-shot talking point. |
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Florida and Michigan Democrats failed their voters and are the only ones responsible for not voting.
Nobody wanted to pay for re-votes. Nobody wanted to abide by the rules.
It had nothing to do with Obama. The ONLY people pushing this bullshit are Hillary supporters. Ever wonder why nobody else is stepping into the echo chamber?
You don't give a shit about Florida and Michigan voters, you just want some excuse to be outraged. Your "disenfranchisement" lie is easily bunked and reeks of desperation.
I live in Florida, stop pretending to speak for me.
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Life Long Dem
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Tue Mar-25-08 01:06 AM
Response to Original message |
30. Of course rules count. |
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Just imagine the chaos if we didn't have rules. Just look at Florida. And if we let them get away with breaking a rule then every state can point their finger at this incident and call it unfair if they don't get the same treatment when they cheat.
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cooolandrew
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Tue Mar-25-08 01:33 AM
Response to Original message |
37. This is why Dems have NOT taken it to superdelegates to avoid conflict of intrests. |
boppers
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Tue Mar-25-08 01:35 AM
Response to Original message |
38. Rules are rules, and SD's should endorse the person who can win. |
johnnydrama
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Tue Mar-25-08 04:56 AM
Response to Original message |
39. Bill Clinton is a superdelegate |
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Because he was President of The United States, and he lived in Washington DC.
By either of these factors, voters in the United States, and voters in Washington DC, Bill Clinton should cast his superdelegate vote for Barack Obama.
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intaglio
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Tue Mar-25-08 05:15 AM
Response to Original message |
40. If this is a rule then Hillary has just lost |
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because her strategy depends on superdelegates ignoring delegate and popular votes
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