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[Female] Bosnian Vet Accuses Hillary of Valor Theft

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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 11:01 AM
Original message
[Female] Bosnian Vet Accuses Hillary of Valor Theft
http://pennsylvaniaprogressive.typepad.com/my_weblog/2008/03/bosnian-vet-acc.html

A veteran of Bosnia who was at the event in Tuzla where Hillary Clinton falsely claimed to have landed under sniper fire is accusing the Senator of theft of valor. As General Walter L. Stewart Jr. of the Pennsylvania National Guard said earlier today on a conference call, soldiers who actually have been in war zones and performed under fire deeply despise those who falsely claim such valor. They feel this way because it attempts to cheapen or make less, their real and actual valor.

The General pointed out "this wasn't an emergency resupply mission to the Alamo. If there had been any danger that mission wouldn't have landed."

Common sense tells us the First Lady and Chelsea would never have been put in harms way by our military. Hillary's tale of bravery and valor, because it was false, is finding resentment among those who actually did serve and Tammi K. (nee Jann) Hertherington who was at Tuzla when Senator Clinton landed is one. Here is her story.

Dear Sir,


I feel compelled to write to you in regards to Senator Clinton’s remarks regarding her visit to Bosnia.


I was present at the base in question when the First Lady visited and am intimately familiar with the situation on the ground at the time. It strikes me as beyond misstatement or clarity of memory for Senator Clinton to suggest that this visit in any way compares with the reality of those of us serving in theater experienced or presented a threat to her or her daughter.


As a service person in the US Army, I was deployed to Bosnia immediately after the Peace Accord was signed and served there for eleven months in 1996. I was there at Tuzla Air base when the First Lady visited, and there was no sniper fire or anyone running under cover. I saw both the First Lady and her daughter in our headquarters building (we called it the 'White House'). When I saw them in the lobby of our Headquarters neither her or her daughter had on the "Flak" vests which even we were required to wear at all times when not inside a building.


It was my fortune to be working in the Headquarter building as a Communications Specialist, and while I did go out to the ZOS (Zone of Separation) once and lived under "Full battle rattle" rules, I would never in any way compare my experience with those who daily risked their lives. That was the M.P.'s who went on daily missions trying to round up weapons and militant individuals who opposed the Peace Accord and the contract workers who aided the Multi-National forces in trying to rebuild the infrastructure (bridges, communication, water) that had been blown up. If, as I believe, it is improper for me to compare my involvement with those who took the bulk of the real risks it is even more improper for any visiting dignitary to compare their own for any reason, let alone for personal gain.


I am quite angry that what I and my fellow soldiers worked to achieve should be used as a playing card to build up a political nominee and tear down another. This is not what those of us who actually risked our lives were working for, we were trying to maintain a Peace Keeping mission in a country that had been ravaged by ethnic cleansing. To trivialize the atrocities suffered by the real people I met in that country for political gain is beyond my ability to comprehend. I met mothers who had lost their children and children who had lost their parents. The sheer leap of credibility that the First Lady would have brought her daughter into an active war zone is an insult to the people there who suffered more than real risk, they suffered real loss.


I did have contact with some of the general population on a daily basis. Many came to work for the Military in custodial capacities. Many carried all that they possessed in plastic bags every day. They brought their own food and cooked daily on little burner plates. I was constantly amazed at how upbeat and optimistic some of the people were in spite of things. It still is hard for me to think of Srebenica and all of the women who lost husbands, sons, and fathers because of religion and nationalistic fervor.


My father still works as a Civil Servant at WOMAK on Ft. Bragg, NC and a couple of years ago he met a Bosnian woman and her daughter, who had lived through the worst of it. They got to talking and found out that I had been over there and told him to tell me 'thank you' for what we had done. It still humbles me and chokes me up a little to know that even after all of these years there is appreciation for our past efforts.


I was simply a soldier doing my job in Bosnia and I believe in what we accomplished there. I do not either want to make of my service more than it was nor to denigrate those who served with me and those who lived through more than any of us. It seems to me that if I simply stand by while others “spin” their involvement for their own personal or political ambitions that I would be contributing to the slander of my fellows in arms and the people we were working to help in Bosnia, so I offer you my personal experience of the reality of the situation.


To verify my story I have included a copy of an commendation I received for service in the Bosnian theater during that period. It would be my honor to provide you more of my perspective if it would serve to deliver the truth to the American people.


Best Regards,



Tammi K Hetherington (nee Jann)

(formerly)

SPC

141 Signal Battalion, 22nd Signal Brigade, 1st Armored Division, US Army

Task Force Eagle
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Hope And Change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 11:04 AM
Response to Original message
1. K&R!
:thumbsup:
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 11:04 AM
Response to Original message
2. Nominated.
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 11:04 AM
Response to Original message
3. K AND R
!!!!!
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
4. Kick nominated n/t
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
5. Thank you specialists
and perhaps the folks defending this mispeak to the death will now get why it bothers REAL vets.

And at this point it is doing actual damage to her campaign

By the way, if any other candidate tried a similar stunt I'd call them on it. Hell, bush does all the time, and we call him on it
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thevoiceofreason Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
6. K&R
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OnceUponTimeOnTheNet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
7. K&R
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
8. Does anyone have any contacts in the MSM?? This needs to be
on the evening news IMMEDIATELY.

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bunnies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 11:11 AM
Response to Original message
9. wow.
How does one even respond to this? :wow:
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 11:11 AM
Response to Original message
10. kicking for a brave veteran
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
11. Oy, she stepped in it this time nt
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
12. K&R nt
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C_U_L8R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
13. It's Hillary's Mission Accomplished Moment
but it's more like Game Over.
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Not the Only One Donating Member (617 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #13
23. Mission Accomplished was more about total denial.
Hillary thinking she has a chance at the nomination is more like Mission Accomplished.

This new Hillary scandal is resume padding/fabrication, like Mike "Brownie" Brown from FEMA.
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NeedleCast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
14. K & R
Great piece of writing. A troop who served honorably and humbly. A politician who doesn't seem to understand either of those words.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
15. Kick
Edited on Wed Mar-26-08 11:21 AM by shadowknows69
Reap the whirlwind Hillary
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Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
16. Yael, mega thank yous for this thread!
Tammi K. said it all!

K&R...everyone needs to read this to fully understand what Hillary did with her lies about Bosnia.

:applause:
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
17. I've been saying all week, there's no way the Secret Service and the
military would have even landed if there were reports of ground trouble near the airport--if the incident really happened the way Hillary said, the military members responsible for security would have been punished. Instead, they kept the entourage safe, and Hillary rewards them by making them look like they didn't do their jobs.
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
18. thanks Yael for helping me
bringing this story forward.
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. Happy to. Glad to see so many recs!
I hope more people see this as the day goes on.
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. I thought it deserved
to be heard.
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habitual Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
20. k+r n/t
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Oilwellian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
22. Great letter
It speaks volumes of Hillary's lack of understanding & respect for what our military does. K&R
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Squatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
24. Talk about starting off on the wrong foot with the DoD...
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caseycoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
25. K&R Wonderful letter! n/t
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
26. Hillary Clinton did travel to combat zones in Bosnia though and she was at real risk
She is only the second American First Lady (Eleanor Roosevelt was the only other one) who has travelled to an actual combat zone:

"Protected by sharpshooters, Hillary Rodham Clinton swooped into a military zone by Black Hawk helicopter Monday to deliver a personal "thank you, thank you, thank you" to U.S. troops.
...
But this was a day of celebration and celebrities - a day for the U.S. troops helping to uphold the Bosnian peace accord. Mrs. Clinton hosted a USO show with comedian Sinbad and singer Sheryl Crow and briefly addressed the gathering.
...
But the highlight of her trip were visits to two fortified posts outside the U.S. base in Tuzla. Even President Clinton, restricted to the base by bad weather in January, did not see as much of this war-wracked region as Mrs. Clinton did Monday.
...
Riflemen rushed to the brush line as the helicopter landed and surrounded her as she walked into the post. Located in a "separation zone," the U.S. outpost nestles between two tree lines. Just months ago, one was Serbian territory, the other Bosnian.

Security was tight - fighter jets accompanied her C-17 cargo plane to Tuzla - but officials said the first lady took no extraordinary risks on the trip.

Lexis - By RON FOURNIER, Associated Press, March 25, 1996


Another report:


"THE First Lady of the United States, Hillary Clinton, visited her country's troops at their fortified outposts in north-eastern Bosnia today and said their peacekeeping work was "extraordinary to behold".

Mrs Clinton's helicopter flight to Camp Alicia, home of a mechanised infantry outfit and a combat engineer batallion 15 miles east of Tuzla, took her over burned out villages and farm houses whose roofs had been blown off in the fierce fighting before last December's Paris peace agreement ended the 43 -month-old war in Bosnia.

A machine gun emplacement guarded the entrance of the outposts and marked Bosnian minefields were visible outside its perimeter.
...
After lunch with the troops in a makeshift dining hall surrounded by sandbags, she flew on to Camp Bedrock south of Tuzla to visit an army field hospital.

Mrs Clinton, who later returned to Tuzla for a show starring singer Sheryl Crow and comedian Sinbad, said she was "amazed at how much has been accomplished in such a short period of time" by US troops in Bosnia.

Source - Lexis - The Herald (Glasgow), March 26, 1996"

More info is at this Mydd Diary from which the above was taken:

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/3/25/224531/594

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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. She is outraged by this -- and you diminish her service by calling her a liar.
Unbelievable.
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. Unbelievable? Where did I call her a liar?
Your accusation is unbelievable. I just relayed some facts, with sources. I did not attempt to contradict anyone. I did not claim that Hillary came under sniper fire, just that ON OTHER STOPS on that Bosnia trip that she was in a combat zone and at elevated risk.

I said nothing about the person who wrote the letter whatsoever, nor about her sevice.
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DeadElephant_ORG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #29
50. I don't think you called her a liar. But I think you're minimizing the significance of HRC's mistake
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. And she should have stuck to THAT Story
she was never at any real risk... beyond mechanical failure

No Commanding General is going to allow real risk, from sniper fire, to come to the wife of the POTUS, and his daughter

hate to point this out... but VIP\Dignitary procedure is pretty clear

If she stuck to the official story line, nobody would be saying a thing... but adding lead mosquitoes to the mix has irked people
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #28
31. I of course agree with your subject line
But there was some real risk, not high risk true. Had there been any recent sniper activity at that outpost no doubt the trip would not have been taken. But there always are uncertainties in a case like this. Bosnia was not very stable in those days and that greater region was not secure.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. and the fact that she added lead mosquitoes
and gun powder seats wrong with me

Especially since SHE HAD A GOOD STORY LINE even in her memoirs

And this is not just about her... but American politics in particular and the US in general

Lying has become a national sport and we need leaders that will LEAD by example and stop doing this shit

We call Bush on it every day of the week and twice on Sunday... I will call her on this shit as well.

She lied, period, and used troops as a backdrop to embellish her campaign

By the way, I do have an inkling about VIP SOP and trust me... any smidgen of a danger... she ain't landing there

Was the area pretty unstable? Yes... but NO GENERAL would have allowed that plane to land if there was even a smidgen from the Intel folk

Why even a four star was around, with nice row of stars, on his floppy... SOP he'd not be that obvious if the danger was even where you are stating it.

Oh and before I am accused of Resume Padding I served as a medic, technically in the reserves of somebody else's military. I rated the rank of Captain, and yes, I took care of VIPs... some of them purely accidental. Oh and been shot at too.
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #31
39. So that makes exaggerating the danger you were in and dishonoring the troops okay?
I'm guessing you are not a military vet. I am, and I can tell you this will not go over well in the military community.

Believe it or not, this lie WILL sink her in the general election if not now. The military already didn't have much love for the Clintons, fairly or unfairly, but Hillary just handed them a reason to loathe her.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. Bingo
and it is unfairly, since they got all the flack over the BRAC initiated under Chenney... but you are right
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #28
70. "beyond mechanical failure" Good one n/t
:rofl:
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Ino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #26
42. Funny that you quoted Fournier!
He's just written another article on this subject:
"Why Wasn't the Truth Good Enough for Hillary?"
http://tinyurl.com/2ga87k

As a journalist on the trip, the story I wrote began, "Venturing to the front lines of the Bosnia peacekeeping mission, Hillary Rodham Clinton greeted U.S. troops today and heard horror stories about the region's devastating civil war." It continued: "Security was tight � fighter jets accompanied her DC-17 cargo plane to Tuzla � but officials said the first lady took no extraordinary risks on the trip."
(snip)
But during a speech last week on Iraq, Clinton stretched the truth to the breaking point. "I certainly do remember that trip to Bosnia and ... there was a saying around the White House that if a place was too small, too poor, or too dangerous, the president couldn't go, so send the first lady. That's where we went. I remember landing under sniper fire. There was supposed to be some kind of greeting ceremony at the airport, but instead we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles to get to our base."

Hogwash. The truth is:

� There was no sniper fire.

� Nobody ducked for cover.

� Bad weather, not security concerns, kept her husband from making the same trip a few months earlier.

Clinton and her aides stood behind the story � which she has told more than once � until video surfaced showing the former first lady, her daughter, Chelsea, and their entourage strolling off the plane and walking calmly across the tarmac.


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sce56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #26
62. The whole thing comes down to the fact that she lied about sniper fire
She Lied about her support for NAFTA!

We have been under the thumb of a President who lies to us all the time do you think we want another liar in the White House?

Mispoke is just another way to say Lied!

If you don't start out with a clean sheet then we will not be able to see the difference between the old lies and the new ones.

Bush Lied and over a million have died!

http://web.archive.org/web/20030602211200/
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americanstranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #62
104. There's my graphic again!
The 'We Weren't Soldiers' graphic - I made that.

That thing's probably been to more places around the world than I'll ever see.

- as
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sce56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 01:43 AM
Response to Reply #104
107. Why thank you I got this from AWOL bush.com
I use it often! It is a fantastic graphic maybe its time to up date, Worldwide in 2002, it since it was dated prior to Operation Iraqi Liberation!

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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #62
113. OMFG!! cough cough! grrrrrrr

This is more than just disturbing! It sucks
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Cheap_Trick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #26
66. at NO TIME
did she have to rush to the convoy with body armor on or any of the other bullshit events she made up. EVER. She fucking lied. Again. Deal with it.


Also, she is not the "second American First Lady (Eleanor Roosevelt was the only other one) who has travelled to an actual combat zone"

Thelma Catherine Ryan "Pat" Nixon<1> (March 16, 1912 – June 22, 1993) was the wife of former President Richard Nixon and the First Lady of the United States from 1969 to 1974. She was commonly known as Pat Nixon.

As First Lady, Pat Nixon promoted a number of charitable causes including volunteerism and oversaw the collection of more than 600 examples of historic art and furnishings for the White House, an acquisition larger than that of any other administration. She also encouraged women to run for political offices and became the first First Lady to visit a combat zone. However, after being re-elected in the landslide victory of 1972, President Nixon resigned two years later amidst the Watergate scandal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Nixon
http://en.veropedia.com/a/Pat%20Nixon



"She became the first First Lady to visit a combat zone when she went to Vietnam.."
http://www.nndb.com/people/327/000024255/


"She also encouraged women to run for political offices and became the first first lady to visit a combat zone."
http://www.answers.com/topic/pat-nixon

"During the Nixons' 1969 trip to South Vietnam, she became the first First Lady to visit a combat zone, in an open helicopter and accompanied by Secret Service agents draped with bandoleers."
http://www.nixonlibraryfoundation.org/index.php?src=gendocs&id=175&category=Research+Center&&print=y

you were saying?

You Clintonistas are so full of shit that you are nothing but walking brown-eyes.
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tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #26
79. Pat Nixon visited an active combat zone n/t
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MagickMuffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #26
92. Hillary was NOT the only First Lady to travel to a combat zone
Pat Nixon was the first First Lady to visit a combat zone, South Vietnam.

As far as Eleanor Roosevelt visiting a combat zone.

Can you provide me with a link?.?.?

So, far I haven't found anything to substantiate it. On MSNBC it was mentioned she traveled to a combat zone AFTER WWII.


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bigbrother05 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 01:25 AM
Response to Reply #26
105. If you don't count Pat Nixon, she went to Nam in '69
We all know what a walk in the park that place was.
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bigbrother05 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #26
106. 2nd if you don't count Pat Nixon, visited Nam in '69
Think we all know what a nice day trip Saigon was in those days.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
30. the retired major general of the pa national guard just accused
Edited on Wed Mar-26-08 11:53 AM by madrchsod
hillary of "stolen honor" and "valor theft"...on the big ed show a few minutes ago

i think she just lost Pennsylvania
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #30
85. Poor Jack Murtha just endorsed hilary
a few weeks ago. What was he thinking?
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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
32. Well, this whole thing has officially jumped the shark.
Hillary will get a boost out of this bs before its over.

There will be blowback from these unfair attacks on her.

Looking forward to it.
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. "unfair attacks"
:rofl:
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. Please explain how this is "unfair"?
What is unfair is that Hillary Clinton would make light the real dangers in a battlefield and attempt to make herself into a war hero, when it wasn't true.

This is a response to Hillary, not an attack. But I guess you are from the school that when Hillary and her supporters hear the truth, they believe that it is hell deserving of Blowback.
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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #34
45. Some are now trying to twist this into her dissing the military. Rovain, anyone? nt
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #45
51. We are doing you a favor...can't you see
She needs to be vetted. Can't be the nominee without proper vetting and all we are doing is doing her a favor by toughening you up. Don't know what the right wing will do. We need to air this out now before the primary voters to ensure your have the proper vetting. I mean heaven forbid she went into the GE without properly having her political teeth kicked in, how would that look.

Whats good for the Gander is good for the Goose :-)
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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. Um, yeah. Happy second week on DU.
Enjoy your stay.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #54
69. Rules
I think I read in the rules that you weren't supposed to comment on the number of someone's post or time here :-)

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Barrymores Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #54
77. Jesus, could you possibly simper a little more?
Edited on Wed Mar-26-08 11:48 PM by Barrymores Ghost
You're saying that Obama supporters have jumped the shark?

Wow.

Cognitive dissonance and projection, anyone?

Get a grip.
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NM Independent Donating Member (794 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #45
67. Please explain how this is "Rovain [sic]"
The Hillary supporters seem to be throwing around that term like chimps throwing poo just praying it will stick.

You clearly don't understand Rove, his tactics, or how they apply (or don't apply) here.

To my knowledge nobody in the Obama camp has been dissing the military, and the would be a precedent for this being a "Rovain " tactic.

Please explain.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #32
38. Since you are pulling the partisan stuff
how is this different from Bush landing his A-6 intruder on the deck of a US Carrier for his mission accomplished speech?

Free clue commander awol didn't land that plane
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Starbucks Anarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #32
52. Do the sharks have sniper rifles attached to them?
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #52
58. Laser beams.
:)
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Starbucks Anarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #58
59. Damn sexist laser beams.
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Cheap_Trick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #58
65. i want frickin' sharks with frickin' laser beams attached to their frickin' heads
:hi:
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #32
75. The truth got 'outed' at Hillary's expense ...
... yeah, how unfair can you get?
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Politicalboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #32
76. Simply Unbelievable
Unfair attacks? Hillbots are delusional.
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ekwhite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #76
87. No mas Hillbots por favor
Calling your opponent names is kindergarten tactics.
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ekwhite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #32
84. Yes, how DARE that soldier write that letter about Hillary Clinton
Who does she think she is anyway? :sarcasm:

Yes, what an unfair attack. Someone who was actually THERE calls Senator Clinton on her comments.
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DeadEyeDyck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #32
114. what does "has officially jumped the shark" mean?
I was seeing that expression a few months ago and now it surfaced again.

Pardon my ignorance.
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
36. I never quite understood the "valor ledger book"
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shenmue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
37. That's not even a term. "Valor theft"?
What's wrong with you?
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #37
41. You are obviously not a veteran if you have never heard the term "valor theft"
It is taken quite seriously in military circles.

Specifically, it refers to faking claims of valor thus diminishing those who were true service heros.
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tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #37
80. Theft of Valor is taken very seriously with active and former military people
Edited on Thu Mar-27-08 12:13 AM by tammywammy
Also know as the Stolen Valor Act.
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Window Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
43. K/R.
:kick:
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City Lights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
44. K&R eom
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fedupinBushcountry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
46. Thanks for posting this Yael
Being a military wife for 20 years, I know exactly what she is talking about. That plane or those helicopters would of never landed if there was even a hint of danger, never.
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. Exactly. And to suggest that our military
would handle that kind of situation (with a teenager and civilians, much less the first lady) any other way is simply spitting in their faces.

And she wants us to make her the CiC. Threshold indeed.
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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
48. Swiftboating I see..
Obama supporter General? on Ed Shultz just made this acusation...hm..."Valor Theft...sounds like a song....
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #48
53. We aren't swiftboating
We are vetting...Isn't that what your team calls it :-) You shouldn't be upset you should be thanking us. At least that's the line we've been handed for the past month.

What's good for the Gander is good for the Goose.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #48
55. I have a question....
ok several

Did she go to Bosnia?

Yes

Was she shot at?

No

Why didn't she stick to the truth?

I don't tolerate lying, whether it is Commander AWOL claiming he landed that plane on the deck of an aircraft carrier (yep, good joke), or she claiming she was shot at, when she wasn't

Was her trip good for morale?

Yes

Was her embellishing her story a mistake?

Yes

Do we, AS A NATION need to stop tolerating this from ANY in the washington crowd? Absolutely
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #48
61. Swiftboating is Based on Lying. You are Mischaracterizing (nt)
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tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #48
81. Swiftboating would be lying
It's not lying to point out where Hillary Clinton's embellished version of events are drastically different than those shown on video and stated by military people who were there.
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ekwhite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #48
90. There is a difference
When the Swiftboat Veterans for "Truth" attacked John Kerry, it was with lies and innuendo.

When you are contradicted by a videotape of the event you were exaggerating, that isn't Swiftboating, that is getting caught red handed.

Quite the difference, is it not?

The General's accusation of 'valor theft' in this case is commenting on a documented falsehood. Exaggerated stories of the danger she was in when she traveled to Tuzla is an insult to the people who were actually living in danger there.
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Johnny__Motown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
49. What Was It She Said About Crossing The Commander In Chief Test?
I forget....
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
56. The Clintons really have a knack for ticking off the military.
This is by far the biggest political mistake that Hillary Clinton has ever made. It may seem small today, but it will never be forgotten. People are going to be making derisive comments about this for a long time.

She can't recover. She's already way behind in delegates. Barack Obama has the nomination. Hillary needs to concede now.
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
57. K & R
:thumbsup:
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BumRushDaShow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
60. K&R
The vetting needs to continue. This is the first time we are getting vetting on Clinton. Surely McCain would use this to tear Clinton and the Democratic party apart being that he is multi-generational military.
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Cheap_Trick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
63. who do I want to answer the phone at 3 a.m.?
Sure as fuck not someone who is sleep deprived and tends to mis-speak so often.
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40ozDonkey Donating Member (730 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
64. Thanks to her for her service to this country - many times over. nt
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kwenu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
68. Shame on Hillary!!!!!
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
71. Bookmarked. That was great n/t
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1776Forever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
72. I know my Vietnam Vet husband said if she had been shot at she woulld have known it!!
:kick:
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pengillian101 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
73. Error: You've already recommended that thread.
Oops.

;-)
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trickyguy Donating Member (461 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
74. Wrote my congresswoman a letter yesterday about this and other Hillary lies
because she endorsed Hillary when she first started running. I asked my politico
if she might change her mind now that we can easily document the audacity of this Bosnia
situation. And there are plenty of other places where Hillary has gone past the boundaries
of decent campaigning. And lied. I asked my congresswoman if she could -at this point - endorse Obama instead.

Can't wait for a reply.

And Tammi I hope this goes further than just this post. For everyone's sake.
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ekwhite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 11:48 PM
Response to Original message
78. Wow. What a heartbreaking post.
Tammi K Hetherington is a true patriot. After reading her post, I am even angrier at Senator Clinton for her 'mis-speak' moment. As SPC Heatherington said, Senator Clinton's exaggerations denigrated the danger and hardship suffered by our troops in Bosnia on a daily basis.

Senator Clinton has truly failed the "Commander in Chief" test.
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tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 11:53 PM
Response to Original message
82. Thanks for posting this Yael
Recommended :)
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 11:56 PM
Response to Original message
83. Amazing this Soldier is writing about what
some at DU were saying would happen..it's only logical.

"I am quite angry that what I and my fellow soldiers worked to achieve should be used as a playing card to build up a political nominee and tear down another. This is not what those of us who actually risked our lives were working for, we were trying to maintain a Peace Keeping mission in a country that had been ravaged by ethnic cleansing. To trivialize the atrocities suffered by the real people I met in that country for political gain is beyond my ability to comprehend. I met mothers who had lost their children and children who had lost their parents. The sheer leap of credibility that the First Lady would have brought her daughter into an active war zone is an insult to the people there who suffered more than real risk, they suffered real loss."
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 12:04 AM
Response to Original message
86. Kicking for actual bravery
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
88. So, when RW sold tshirts with Hillary in a bullet site and when she had to live under SS protection
for 8 years because RW nutjobs could try to kill her at any moment, that was nothing, right? I am sure that anyone of us at DU would just love that kind of life.

Valor theft? Stealing your victimhood? I have heard some tall tales at DU this election season. I am going to remember these and recite them back to you later and no one will fess up. You will all say "Someone else did those crazy posts." It wasn't me. I would never say anything so dumb.

Like I am sure that all of your would deny that you ever said Edwards was a phony even though 6 months ago this board was waist deep in that crap.

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tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #88
89. You should read up on the Stolen Valor Act
Edited on Thu Mar-27-08 12:12 AM by tammywammy
http://www.pownetwork.org/phonies/stolen_valor_media_information_sheet.htm

It's a serious thing.


BTW, if the letter wasn't written by a veteran of the military feel free to look it up and expose it. Active and Veteran military members don't take highly of anyone lying about their service.
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chrisblask Donating Member (8 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #89
91. I know Tammi
Anyone who doubts her veracity can contact me.

chris@blask.org
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tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #91
93. I've known veterans that exposed phonies
Anyone who lies about military service is lower than dirt. :grr:
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chrisblask Donating Member (8 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #93
96. Agreed. I have a scan of Tammi's commendation. Tammi is very, very real....
don't know if that is postable, here....
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tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #96
100. You need to get a few more posts and start a thread
:)

Yeah, if you put the pic in like a photobucket account you can then direct link it in a post here.
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chrisblask Donating Member (8 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #93
97. Agreed. I have a scan of Tammi's commendation. Tammi is very, very real....
don't know if that is postable, here....
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #91
103. Thanks and welcome to DU!
Suggestion -- it is getting traction on the blogosphere, but you all may want to contact Keith Olbermann at MSNBC (host of Countdown, 8pm EST). He would LOVE to feature her account. I shouldn't speak for him -- but I know his style and it is about exposing fraud, no matter WHO is perpetuating it.

Thanks for the post!
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chrisblask Donating Member (8 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #89
95. Comment From Tammi's Husband (not me) on PA Progressive site
Pretty strong words, but I understand. Tammi is righteously pissed off, and we husbands take that personally, too...

-chris

--------------------------

I live with Tammi and daily her integrity, honesty and work ethic amaze me. I have never seen my wife this angered by a politician frankly, she rarely even commented on one prior to this primary season. Tammi is an an exemplary American citizen. She has served her country honorably and never "misspeaks about her service to our country".

She gets up daily at 0330 am, heads off to work, on a break she attends a 4 year university still seeking to accomplish a educational goal, she then often returns back to her employer for an additional 4 hours of work. Only then will she come home to a house where the decisions all of us face daily come into play, what's for dinner, is it healthy, how are the finances this month, etc... Never complaining and often sleeping less that 4 hours a night. That is sleep deprived! If anyone had an excuse to come up short of the expectations those supporting her have, Tammi has many, yet never has she indulged in this pathetic behavior.

Hillary Clinton has failed a populous desperate for change in the this great republic. Senator Clinton is not the truth that needs to speak to power, she is the status quo. This has been clearly demonstrated by her fictitious account of the events in 1996 in Bosnia. When I say fictitious I mean lying piece of political trash.

God bless America(All Gods for all People) and free speech, but let us never forget that free speech comes at a cost to those veterans that serve in the military as well as other well meaning souls that often pay for that privilege with there lives and better parts of their young adulthood. This trivialization of so many individuals efforts is a clear indication that Senator Clinton of New York has no place as the leader of the free world as she does not have the ability to understand that free is not always free.

The privilege to stand as a candidate for presidency was provided for by veterans willing to stand up for this great country. This sad episode is a stellar reminder that government in this United States is to be representative of the people and Senator Clinton does not posses, even with the benefit of intellect the capacity to understand the real value of what character has to do with leadership, thus she is simply not worthy a nomination of a major party endorsement, unless of course that party chooses to have a liar represent them.
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OnceUponTimeOnTheNet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 05:22 AM
Response to Reply #95
109. Welcome to DU.
Morning thread kick.
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EmilyAnne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #88
94. What on earth does security for an American first lady have to do with putting one's life on the
line in the Bosnian war? This is a ridiculous analogy.

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chrisblask Donating Member (8 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #88
101. I'm right here - chris blask - 941 201 8277 - I don't lie
"Stealing your victimhood? I have heard some tall tales at DU this election season. I am going to remember these and recite them back to you later and no one will fess up. You will all say "Someone else did those crazy posts." It wasn't me. I would never say anything so dumb."

I would like to invite you to recite what I think you just said to me, Tammi and her family.

WTF does "stealing your victimhood" mean, BTW? I can tell you, the sound of it pisses me off something terrible, I hope you have some explanation that makes me understand it differently...

And come back in six months or six years, I'm always here.

chris@blask.org
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #88
102. I have NO shame in posting this. Please do bookmark it -- I would be honored to be reminded
of it later -- and of the disaster this country narrowly escaped embodied in an HRC administration.
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 02:02 AM
Response to Reply #88
108. I really can't believe you are defending this kind of behavior
Yes we all know Hillary had to deal with a lot as First Lady, but that gives her no right to make shit up. She needed to stand on the valor she had not make up fancy fiction stories about valor she did not have.
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Life Long Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 12:24 AM
Response to Original message
98. The media knows this is a big problem for Hillary.
But they are not about to admit it. The first day it came out they threw away the broom and brought out the shop vac to sweep this under the rug to no avail.

Today they were out again this time with a little more admittance of the facts but still tried to brush it off.

This is not going away - it's working it's damage whether the media admits to it or not. I'm hoping this drives her out on her own without any compromise with Howard Dean.
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thoughtcrime1984 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 12:25 AM
Response to Original message
99. K&R
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Norrin Radd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 06:44 AM
Response to Original message
110. kr
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
111. It can't be any more clearer than that folks.
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
112. Valor theft?
:rofl:
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tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #112
116. Read up on the Stolen Valor Act
You look foolish.
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #116
118. Is there anything I could possible do or say that will not make me look foolish on this board?
Because as soon as you people see who I voted for, I am insane, blind or treacherous in your eyes.

Act or no, the idea of stealing valor is idiotic. Kind of like defamation laws that used to punish people for stealing a woman's virtue.
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parkeradison Donating Member (82 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
115. Regarding "Bosnian vet"
First of all, thanks for your service to our nation. And, I wholeheartedly agree with you. Thanks again.
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Pappy Donating Member (113 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 11:04 AM
Response to Original message
117. She is a corporate warmonger!
The fact that she's willing to go supervise these killings herself says it all. Her husband sent troops and bombs over to Bosnia and she was there. She voted for war in Iraq and she has also been over there to to "support her troops". She goes around shaking hands and eating with the troops. She is a fucking fascist!
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #117
119. Please take your 'shit on the military' rhetoric elsewhere
Thanks
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Pappy Donating Member (113 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #119
120. In case you haven't checked, this isn't a pro-military website, this is a Democrat website.
Please go run off and join up with the Repugs if you think war is so great.
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