The naivety of DU really makes me laugh sometimes

[BigDaddy44]

Sometimes I wonder if some of you have ever been through a Presidential campaign before, or understand the nature of politics.

We're now at (or a little past) crunch time. We have a clear leader, but its not over yet. So what do we read? "He's been dragging HER down with his negative campaigning". "Oh yeah? Well SHE actually has the gall to bring up what his Pastor said!!" "I can't believe we're saying mean things about my candidate." blah blah blah, whine whine whine.

Folks, hundreds of MILLIONS of dollars have been spent so far. And some get offended because the campaign isn't an English tea party and one side is playing meaner than the other. This is down and dirty, bare knuckle politics. Squabbles, fights, accusations, rumor, intrigue -- its politics. Always has been, always will.

I remember the heady days of fall when everyone was talking about a "new type of Democratic primary process", where all of our candidates ran positive campaigns, and didn't drag each other down. Arm and arm, skipping barefoot through a flowery meadow while throwing rose petals in the air.......

What a laugh. Grow up. This is the way the game is played, and I for one am all for it. Let 'em fight. Let 'em sling the mud. I WANT a candidate who knows how to get down in the gutter and get mean and get ugly. This is about winning. Everyone remembers who wins Miss America; no one remembers Miss Congeniality.

Whoever ultimately wins the nomination will be a bit bruised, but stronger and better equipped to handle the onslaught that will come from the other side in the Fall.

Its only politics; it ain't personal ;)

[SoonerPride]

When you decapitate your opponent in March, he still has no head in November

The fact is this thing is over.

There is no more contest.

It.
Is.
Over.

Clinton cannot and will not win. She only does damage to herself and our party by proloning the agony and making the tenor of the attacks more and more bitter.

[burythehatchet]

1. First thing you gotta do is dispel the notion of a DU in the aggregate

This is a collection of tens of thousands pf people of every shade and stripe. DU is nothing if not diverse. Therefore, any broad characterization is suspect in its' validity.

[dbonds]

2. We are participating in this game as you call it...

and some of us (seems like most of us) don't like our politics to be modeled after the WWF. If that is your cup of tea fine, but I for one want to see someone with more intelligence than a caveman (sorry geico). Our country is in dire trouble here and it is not time for politics as usual. We need extraordinary, not ordinary.

[BigDaddy44]

8. Sorry, but it isn't going to happen

With the advent of the internet, 24 hour news coverage, and multiple cable channels dedicated solely to politics and the campaign, it is inevitable that at some point, the lowest common denominator is going to be reached. With the money at stake, people are going to look for dirt, and people are going to find dirt, and people are going to have to fight back.

Its going to get ugly. It has to. There is not an alternative. If you don't think so, you're not living in reality.

[NJSecularist]

9. That is the nature of politics

It was that way in the 1800s, 1900s, and it will continue this election.

[JKaiser]

3. Great post!! Thanks! So true! I want a fighter!

[Saturday]

4. That's exactly what Bill Clinton said yesterday. Both of you

are right on!

[theoldman]

5. While I don't totally disagree with your post I need to add a

few things. Democrats have a history of pulling defeat out of the jaws of victory. They are not like the Republicans who may bash each candidate during the campaign but unite during an election.

[0007]

6. Stick around big daddy0 and you'll see and smell the real sauce

when it comes out. I hope you only take one helping. Don't be greedy!! ya hear?

[alcibiades_mystery]

7. Why isn't complaining and making the other candidate look like a vicious opportunist

part of the game?

Oh yeah, it is.

Don't take everything at face value.

[BigDaddy44]

10. Oh absolutely, it is part of the game

But some take it seriously. They actually acted SHOCKED, SHOCKED I tell ya', that candidate X would bring such a thing up!!! How DARE they take such a cheap shot. I am personally OFFENDED by them saying such a thing. (i'm hoping there's a little twinkle in their eye to accompany the false outrage.)

[alcibiades_mystery]

21. Acting shocked is part of the game too, as you well know

It's just cynicism all the way down, with the sincere hope that those other people are just a little stupider.

Two cheers for democracy.

[grantcart]

11. Yes up to the point where you are crafting sound bites for the other side in the GE

The comments about the pastor don't bother me - just makes Clinton look desperate and shallow.

Giving McCain sound bites that can be used against the party's nominee is unforgiveable (McCain's campaign is already using them).

[tabasco]

12. By your logic, the millions spent on the Ken Starr inquisition was justified.

Hey, it's all part of the game. If you have a pot of money you can use to try and dig up shit on somebody, something that has nothing to do with the function of the government, it's all part of the game! If you turn up a blow job - MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!

[BigDaddy44]

14. I'm not saying its right; its life

Live with it. You aren't going to change it. You can profess mock outrage all you want, but thats how things work. The hope for a "new kind of message, that rises above petty politics" is a pipe dream.

Oh, by the way, I have no dog in this fight. Biden was my guy. I'm ambivalent about Clinton vs. Obama. All I know is, I will vote for whoever comes out alive in the fall. (this to counteract those who will immediately try to shoehorn me into one of the two camps.)

[tabasco]

17. I don't have to live with it anymore than I have to live with the Iraq war.

I fight for change and I feel sorry for people who just accept things the way they are, rather than try to make it better.

By the way, Sparky, Biden is no longer a candidate. Time to put on your thinking cap and make a choice. I see too many people in here who profess to support somebody who's not in the race, just so they can put on airs of objectivity. I "support" Biden too but he's not a candidate in this election.

[BigDaddy44]

18. Al Gore hasn't made a choice

Jimmy Carter hasn't made a choice. John Edwards hasn't made a choice. Gosh, didn't realize all of us who haven't made a choice yet should just sit down and shut up.

[tabasco]

19. How do you know?

Are you a mind reader?

Please provide a link to any of those people saying they have not decided.

I bet every one of them decided months ago, and they will announce their preference soon.

[BigDaddy44]

23. Surely you must be joking

Everyone is screaming for this to end. If Gore, Carter and Edwards had made a choice, and announced it, their endorsement would certainly help bring it to a close. So, if they had made a choice, don't you think they would say so? If they have made a choice and haven't announced it, then they are complicit in the carnage that continues.

[crankychatter]

29. hear hear

and there there

[Debi]

13. Thank you oh wise one

and welcome to DU :hi:

I wouldn't have understood politics without your explanation.

[BigDaddy44]

15. You're quite welcome ;)

(yes, I know sarcasm when I see it)

[OhioBlue]

16. that's ridiculous. this isn't the days of yesteryear.

this is the days of 24/7 news, the internet, echo chambers and youtube.

If the race was just covered by newspapers, maybe you would have a point. But not this way and not with the Republicans already having a nominee and being able to define him.

sorry, you need to catch up. it is now 2008.

We need to define our candidate now. We need to have Dems on the same side working against the right wing noise machine. The negative campaign that is being run does harm our chances. The clips of Bill and Hill and their surrogates saying negative things about Obama will be replayed endlessly. Our volunteers need to focus on running against McCain instead of each other.

[Usrename]

20. You are making an argument that she can still win.

Can you explain a plausible scenario for a Clinton victory? No one else has been able to.

I'm still curious about what you think Hillary's path to victory really is.

How is she going to win this thing? Can she lose the delegate race, lose the popular vote, and somehow come away with a win from the convention?

And if she does somehow manage to get the nomination while losing the vote and the pledged delegates, this scenario helps the party how? She won't ever win a general if she does that, will she? Her negatives will be even higher than they were when this thing started.

A year ago, half the people in the country wouldn't vote for her. If she snakes the nomination away from a movement that won more votes and more delegates, then she'd be almost guaranteed to lose every state in the general election. Half of the people that can still stomach her now will never vote for her if she continues in this fashion. It might be a different conversation if she were winning, but she isn't. She is losing badly. At what point do you think losing badly should become a loss? When she has no possibility of winning the Whitehouse?

So, (and feel free to use your imagination) how does she get elected to the Whitehouse?

I'm still waiting to hear if you have any plausible scenario?

Please, enlighten us on how this political stuff is supposed to work.

[BigDaddy44]

24. I am making no such argument

My point is that the hand wringing and false outrage over the mean spiritedness of the campaign is laughable. In the historical scheme of things, this is nothing. They are big boys and girls and can take it. Unfortunately, many of us in here cannot.

[Usrename]

25. WTF?

Oh, I get it!

Hillary should stay in the race because there is still a lot more damage she can do, and a lot more money she can waste!

:wow:

Is this the meat of what you wish to lecture all of the "hand wringers" about?

WTF are you thinking? I guess some us just cannot keep up with your superior grasp of all things political!

Explain it to me slowly, so that I can understand it, how is continuing this race going to help Democrats now that Hillary cannot win?

If you can solve this simple problem with a rational explanation, then I guarantee you that most of the hand-wringing will stop.

[BigDaddy44]

26. If Obama can't take what Clinton is throwing at him now....

Then he won't be able to take what the Republicans throw at him in the fall. Wouldn't you rather have this stuff out and vetted now, as opposed to say, October?

[Usrename]

27. You don't get it at all, do you?

What is it that you think Obama can't take? He's crushed her in this contest. It's over, even by your own account she has no chance.

Why aren't we throwing stuff at McCain and all the the other down-ticket republicans? Can't we use this opportunity more wisely?

[John Q. Citizen]

22. No. This is different. Hill's implicit endorsement of McCain over Obama along with the race baiting

has made this primary fight unique.

Hillary has already committed the one unforgivable political crime, and that's endorsing McCain in both experience and patriotism over Obama.

If Hill had just dabbled in race baiting around the fringes she might have gotten away with it. But instead she's been rather crude. And coupled together with the McCain endorsements, this Democratic Primary will be long remembered for the Kamikaze campaign of Hillary Clinton.

[OneBlueSky]

28. what amuses me is that people talk about the election as if it is going to be a fair one . . .

when all indications point to yet another grand theft by the Repugs and their corporate henchmen . . . they did it in 2000, they did it in 2004, and they'll do it again in 2008 . . . what's to stop them? . . . they have the means, the motive, and the opportunity, thanks to a Democratic Congress that did nothing to remove the election process from the hands of those corporations and return it to the American people . . .

it's not who votes that counts; it's who counts the votes . . .

[boppers]

30. "Always has been, always will."

If you want to keep playing the same game, instead of changing the rules, fine.

Your call.

"Always has been, always will." was slavery.

"Always has been, always will." was denying women the vote.

"Always has been, always will." was calling indigenous Americans "savages".

WE. WANT. CHANGE.

"Always has been, always will." has failed us.

[crankychatter]

31. National Polls showed Clear Obama Victory until Clinton went Berserker

Now he has a tiny lead on McCain.

Clinton's negatives went way UP and she is
STILL predicted to lose to McCain.

NO, this level of slime is UNPRECEDENTED in Modern National Primaries.

Serious analysts from every major news outlet have been saying
as much for WEEKS NOW.

Party Officials are worrying privately, and putting out public statements of impending
resolution to calm public panic.

The extreme negativity is coming from ONE camp, not BOTH, despite spin to the contrary.

You are NOT speaking to children.

Your condescension is unwarranted and furthermore, you're completely wrong.

[QC]

32. K&R! n/t