Fuck Ted Kennedy's Endorsement of Obama.

[AGirl]

Fuck Ted Kennedy. That's all.


(Washington) Sen. Edward M. Kennedy is jumping into the middle of an uproar within the gay community whose causes he has long championed.

The Massachusetts Democrat is leading a push in the Senate for a federal ban on job bias against gays, lesbians and bisexuals - but not transsexuals, cross-dressers and others whose outward appearance doesn't match their gender at birth.

"We will strongly oppose it," said Roberta Sklar of the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force. "Leaving transgender people out makes that a flawed movement."

The House in November approved the bill, written by openly gay Rep. Barney Frank, D-Mass., despite strong protests from many gay rights advocates that it didn't cover transgender workers.

"It was made very clear in the fall that most LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender) organizations, the vast majority of LGBT organizations, do not want Congress to shove a civil rights bill down our throat that we don't want," said Mara Keisling, executive director of the National Center for Transgender Equality.

Some gay rights groups, including the Human Rights Campaign, supported Frank's bill and the decision not to risk its rejection by Congress by insisting on immediate transgender protections as well.

"We will continue this work until all members of our community no longer fear being fired for who they are," said Brad Luna, Human Rights Campaign communications director.

Kennedy said Senate approval of the bill could pave the way for extending protections to transgender workers next year, when he hopes Democrats will increase their numbers in Congress and a Democratic president supporting gay rights will be in the White House.

[YOY]

1. Your faux outrage is noted

n/t

[yardwork]

59. The OP is transgendered. There's nothing "faux" about her outrage.

Many of us oppose this bill because it leaves out some of the most vulnerable people in the country.

[YOY]

149. So's my best bud at work

She seems to be taking it with a laugh. Transgendered or not I really don't judge people (or put them on pedestals for such things...)

[readmoreoften]

283. Oh you don't judge people for being transgendered, how big of you!

And you have a transgendered friend! Wow! Do you have a black friend too? A jew friend? An Arab guy you know who doesn't think the Iraq War is so bad? Regale us with your limited anecdotal knowledge.

[YOY]

303. No really, my best bud at work is a trangendered Lesbian. I'm not being pompous.

Why would you be an ass about it? Why would you treat me as one of those suburbanite white guys who says "I have black friends..." when saying something borderline racist? Do you actually think I said something homophobic or anti-transgendered?

Wow... That's just...WOW!

How's this for regaling you with my knowledge: You just pre-judged me...very obnoxiously I may add.

Of course I'm biased! I pointed out faux outrage when it was there from a person who comes from a different background...I must be a bigot :sarcasm:

I really do sense faux outrage and honestly I just don't give a damn who does it.

[kwenu]

267. It's faux outrage alright. Barney Frank wrote the bill and no one is mad at him.

[brentspeak]

312. Oh sure. And my name is Elmer J. Fudd.

I own a mansion and a yacht.

:eyes:

[EmilyAnne]

67. I don't think its faux at all. This is something that she really cares about. Let's try a little

empathy for a Democrat who feels unrepresented.

[SammyWinstonJack]

147. Well now if the OP has said "F Ted Kennedy's endorsement of Hillary" then

it wouldn't have been a problem with this particular poster, right? :shrug:

[dsc]

91. shame on you

That poster is transgender. I will conceed there are two sides to the issue (I happen to favor not passing a non inclusive bill) but for you to dare say she is faux outraged is despicable.

[YOY]

153. Woah am I an evil anti-trangendered bastard! Call me "MegaPhelps Cubed"!

:sarcasm:

I wonder if it that outrage would have happened if he had voiced support for Hillary....

[dsc]

263. If the title fits

you used the words.

[YOY]

273. and you took them the completely wrong way

Break out the medals.

[emilyg]

228. Shame on you.

[YOY]

241. No.

n/t

[JoFerret]

292. And your faux inclusivity is noted likewise

.

[graywarrior]

2. This place is really getting ridiculous.

[kwassa]

183. This place is in the definition of ridiculous.

wierd, splintered, single-interest political advocacy with massive lies and spin and faux moral outrage.

[Catherina]

3. Ted Kennedy is dead to me now n/t

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

40. So is Bobby...

[Bluenorthwest]

121. I became a Democrat

At a very early age, the night they murdered Bobby, my family's hero, on TV in our very own city. That morning Dad had taken me to RKF headquarters to get a poster while he have them a donation check. We went home and hung the poster in my room as my Dad explained yet again why he was a Democrat and why he hoped I would be when I was of voting age. Later we had to take the poster down because I could not stop crying when I saw it. My Dad had cried too, first time I ever saw him shed tears.
The next day, bullies in our heavily Republican neighborhood pushed me to the ground and laughed about Bobby being dead. I sat there looking at their fascist faces and thought, 'I'm not waiting until voting age, I'm a Democrat right here and now, like Mom and Dad and Bobby and Rosy Greir.' And that was that.
So I guess I'd say I found your joke less than amusing.

Transgendered people have been with me literally from the first second I came out of the closet as gay, walking a path of even greater challenge. So I will always be standing with the T in the GLBT community. And not standing with those who mock the murder of a great Democrat as a path to mocking a minority seeking fair representation.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

132. Your lack of humor is duly noted...

When somebody posts "Fuck Ted Kennedy" because they don't get their way on a specific piece of legislation, I have to wonder if they're a Democrat at all.

Fuck Ted Kennedy? Who am I not supposed to fuck if I'm supposed to be fucking Ted Kennedy?

Fuck Paul Wellstone? He voted for the DOMA.

Fuck Dennis Kucinich? He's Catholic and opposed to abortion.

Fuck Anybody-Who-Doesn't-Agree-With-Me-On-Every-Issue?

Fuck Hillary? Fuck Obama?

Who in the hell is left in the Democratic Party who hasn't been fucked?

[Bluenorthwest]

143. I do not lack humor

But I did not find your comment humorous. Many different tastes out there, that is not mine.
Also it should not come as a suprise that a person who is seeking some protection under the law might be extremely pissed off at those who seemed to betray her. In fact, it is really the duty of those who feel trammpled upon to say 'don't tread on me' at every opprotunity and with full freedom of speech.
I'd not say fuck Teddy. But I can see why she says it. I can say he's wrong on this and so is Barney, very wrong. But this woman is doing the right thing, self advocating with full voice. And why should she not? Perhaps if more people did not roll over so easily the Democratic Party might not be so full of fucked over Democrats, you know? I agree, we've all been fucked over, but it was not people who stood strongly for their own personal rights who fucked us over. It was the ones who play along as if being fucked over is the natural state of being for a Democrat.
Let's be very clear here. This is not just 'a specific piece of legislation'. It is now perfectly legal to discriminate openly in employment and housing against the OP. The current bill would end that state of things for many, while specifically leaving the OP and others like her out in the cold, still subject to flat out, broad daylight discrimination.
In her shoes, this would feel terrible. It is terrible. But try to get some perspective. For a trans person, this is like saying 'you can still fire the trany, don't worry Republicans'...
What I'd like to see is support for her, and maybe even some people trying to heal the obvious wound some Democrats have inflicted on her. Leave me out of a protection bill and I'd really not be worried about who got insulted on a website, especailly rich, powerful men who could not suffer any harm from hearing the truth of how his vote makes some Democrats feel.
Did Teddy get his feelings hurt by the mean transexual woman? Who cares! Look at what is said about Democrats on this board everyday for far less personally important issues, and this seems pretty tame. Seriously.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

150. Given the OP's explosive and unpredictable rage...

I think firing for being transgendered might be the last of her worries.

Walking into a Democratic forum and trashing one of the most revered figures in Democratic politics is not a way to garner much sympathy or support. And it's damned sure not how you go about building consensus for your issues.

[AGirl]

157. You got it right. I didn't write this to garner "sympathy or support". I am here to express my view.

Among people whom I 've already thought were supporting me.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

166. Okie, Dokie

As long as you're not trying to change people's mind or enlighten them on the issue, then you've achieved your purpose.

Personally, I had no knowlege of this legislation before you invited me to fuck Ted Kennedy. Perhaps a more nuanced approach would have avoided a lot of the "chatter" you're seeing on this thread and caused people to do something -- like contact the Senator's office to express their concerns.

[AGirl]

173. Nope, I am not here to change mind. I am here to talk with other progressives.

Maybe there's time for education, today is not the day. I am pissed off, I am sorry you don't like it. But i am not sorry.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

174. Then talk...

Hurling bombs at Ted Kennedy is not conducive to a civil conversation.

[AGirl]

175. There's time for civility, and there's time to express anger.

I chose to express anger in my OP. And you can respond to me in anger, or in disagreement, or you can try to engage in a civil discussion about why I feel the way I do or you can continue to disagree with my expression of anger.

Your choice.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

184. You're the OP...

so much of how I respond to you is going to be based on what I've read (it's pretty much all I have to go on). And right now I'm trying to figure out what you think should be the next step, after the expressions of outrage are done.

They're done, right?

Should I, as a progressive, oppose legislation that protects gays and lesbians because it doesn't include protection of the transgendered community? Should NOBODY in the GLBT community get protection at all, if there's one portion of the community that isn't covered? Should I look on this an completely unacceptable or as a step in the right direction?

[AGirl]

189. Well, I would be okay with the exclusive bill if they are damn sure that it will be passed into Law

But it doesn't. Bush said he will veto it. And the only victory they want would be a symoblic one and a show of how they have fought for gay rights come election time and how they can talk about themselves being a champion of gay rights , while kicking trans people out of the bus.

This pisses me off.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

197. That's a valid point...

This law will never see the light of day (at least not in this Administration) and the sponsors really SHOULD have been all-inclusive with the language. When this comes up again next year, it's important that fair-minded progressives should be contacting their legislators to make certain that everybody is included.

[AGirl]

198. Thanks, I am glad you agree with me. n/t

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

200. Keep us posted...

when this legislation comes up again, so we can be pro-active.

I'm glad we talked.

[readmoreoften]

284. Half the gay community would just be fired for not being gender appropriate.

That's why the bill is BAD. Would a bill to say that you can't fire someone for being Black, but you can fire them for being too dark-skinned make sense? There's an enormous crossover between trans issues and gay issues. My partner is far more discriminated against for being too masculine looking than she is for being in a relationship with me. She has been police escorted out of the women's room more than once.

[apocalypsehow]

209. "I am here to talk with other progressives"... Uh-huh.

Who are you trying to fool?

:eyes:

[Bluenorthwest]

171. Walk a mile in the heels I say

And gain some perspective. Look at the postings about other Democrats in regard to far less impactful issues. This is tame by comparison.
And again, legal discrimination in housing, employment and services. Not something a consultant said about a preacher. A real issue with real world results of the deepest kind.
Advice from straights is always appriciated, and rejected as underinformed and skewed to an agenda that is not our own. We have no desire for sympathy. Just equal treatment under the law for all Americans.
But you are also correct in the larger picture. The level of invective toward many Democrats revered by various voting blocks has been fake and replusive this cycle. I don't see that this post even comes close to crap I read every day here about many Democrats. In fact, considering the stakes of the issue, this seems kinder than most GD-P postings about non issues.
Nothing to make the fakers nervous like a person who is correctly indignant.

[readmoreoften]

285. Ooo did the transsexual fail to 'garner sympathy' for her lack of rights?

Do you know what a selfish, pompous fuck you sound like? "Her issues". No injustice is everyone's issue. People not being able to get work or housing is everyone's issue. Did you ever think that straight white men like you (and yeah, i'm guessing you're white) don't GIVE people rights? Rights aren't for you to GIVE. You don't BESTOW them on people in all your magnificent grandness. You just stop taking them away.

If you don't actively condemn people's right not to become evicted or lose their jobs over being LGBT, then you are a part of the 'taking away rights' crew.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

295. That was somewhat less than constructive...

Here's a little life lesson from your friendly neighborhood pompous fuck: when you heap gatuitous insults on people, they are far less likely to give a damn about you than when you true to engage them in a positive discussion about the issues.

Is injustice everybody's issue? Sure. But there's a hell of a lot of injustice out there and we can only deal with so much of it in a single day, so if you want to get "your" specific issue dealt with, you might consider approaching the body politic with something other than over-heated rhetoric.

[Solon]

299. Why give fuckers like the two mentioned in this thread any consideration at all?

Why the fuck do they deserve even that much when they don't treat other human beings as human beings in the first place?

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

300. I'm not sure who you're referring to...

There's been a lot of fucking going on in this thread.

[Solon]

302. I'm referring to Franks and Kennedy. n/t

[mitchtv]

262. You make a good point for Gays to

abandon the party. Believe me I'm hanging on by a thread. The purse string is already broken

[Toasterlad]

254. Dude! Too Soon!

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

259. I'll try again in 2018

One of these days, that line will just kill...

[LittleClarkie]

201. What about Barney Frank?

Is he dead too?

[MaineDem]

4. Nice

:eyes:

"Kennedy said Senate approval of the bill could pave the way for extending protections to transgender workers next year, when he hopes Democrats will increase their numbers in Congress and a Democratic president supporting gay rights will be in the White House."

This makes perfect sense. Let's get some protection passed and work on the rest when we have a better chance of getting it ALL.

[karynnj]

97. Exactly - not to mention it is written by openly gay Rep. Barney Frank, D-Mass.

It is likely as much as Frank and Kennedy seeing passing in their respective chambers.

It would be nice if the OP looked at it as immediately better than the status quo and moving in the right direction. It's almost as is doing nothing seems better to the OP than doing something not perfect.

[Toasterlad]

255. Oh, Please.

Andrew Sullivan is an openly gay guy, too. Doesn't mean I agree with everything he says.

Maybe the OP doesn't WANT to wait for her basic human rights any longer. Maybe she's sick and tired of being thrown under the bus in the name of political expediency. Maybe she fucking had it with a party that pretends to be on her side, but keeps telling her she's got to wait for her turn to speak. As a gay man, I know precisely how she feels.

Wonder how YOU'D feel if someone told you that they wouldn't pass legislation guaranting your right to your job because it wasn't "time" yet.

As AGirl mentions, this bill is going to be vetoed ANYWAY, and everyone knows it. The ONLY reason to leave transgendered folk out of it is so stupid-ass straight people won't go "ewww that's icky!" when they hear about Sen. So-and-So's support for the bill at election time.

[Cant trust em]

5. I get the point and you're right, but this doesn't have anything to do with Obama

this shouldn't be in GDP. Try the LGBT forum or General Discussion.

[Bluenorthwest]

122. Hey the Rosa Parks Award

For sending 'those people' to their proper, less obvious place, goes to......

[Cant trust em]

125. actually I'd think that general discussion would be a much more obvious place

than GDP which is only meant for discussion of the primaries.

[Life Long Dem]

6. Nice. Don't ever say we attack Clinton the way Hillary supporters do.

[LostinVA]

The OP isn't a Hillary supporter

I think they are currently a Gravel supporter, after changing to Senator Obama.

[AGirl]

103. You are calling me "They" because you don't recognize my gender or what?

[LostinVA]

123. Just shut up with the attacks, okay, and research my posting history

See how often I stand up for TG rights -- in threads where I sure as hell never fucking see YOU. Don't EVEN try that shit with me.

[AGirl]

126. I ask again: You are calling me "They" because you don't recognize my gender or what?

[Bluenorthwest]

144. Hey there

Lost in VA is on our side, is our side, and just used the plural by mistake, I am sure. It is understandable that you would be furious about this, but VA is not one who deserves it.

[AGirl]

169. Thanks. All she had to say was I did it by mistake. I asked her a question, if thats a crime

than i am guilty but not sorry. :)

[Marrah_G]

159. Get a grip- You know they weren't saying that at all.

Stop accusing Lost_in_VA of being a bigot. It is an unwarranted personal attack. She is on your damn side for goodness sake.

[AGirl]

162. I didn't accuse her of being a bigot. I asked her a FREAKING question. Sue me.

[Marrah_G]

168. No- you asked it in a way that implied she was a bigot.

It was wrong and you should apologize just like some of these other posters should apologize to you for their actual bigoted comments.

[AGirl]

170. Why the fuck should I apologize? What the hell am i supposed to think when she called me "they"?

You guys want to gang up on me for asking a fucking question? Huh? Try me.

[Marrah_G]

176. You are over-reacting to her choice of words and making it something it isn't

She is on your side. She supports the same thing you do. She wants the same thing you do. You took her words and twisted them into a meaning they did not have.

If telling you, that you are wrong, is in your mind "ganging up" then so be it. I also "ganged up" on the asshole that posted nasty shit about lampshades and horses towards you. Take aim at him, not at Lost.

I realize this topic infuriates you, as it well should. Just be careful not to shoot your allies instead of your enemies.

[AGirl]

180. You are calling me "They" because you don't recognize my gender or what? - NOT overreaction.

Tell me I am implying she's a bigot because I asked her about her choice of word IS overreaction.

[Marrah_G]

187. It was the manner in which you asked it.

Gah- forget it- I am done. Have fun.

[AGirl]

192. Sorry, i wasn't being a nice transsexual to my allies. I am sorry i dared to ask her a question.

:roll my freaking eyes off:

Yeah.

[Toasterlad]

256. .

:popcorn:

[maddiejoan]

160. Step Off LostinVA

she's a friend of mine --and if she's transphobic --then I'm an Obama supporter.

[AGirl]

161. I didn't say she's transphobic. I asked her a freaking question. So you step off of ME.

[maddiejoan]

196. No

It's one thing to be outraged at Kennedy or Frank or any other politician that doesn't live up to their rhetoric.

Hell --there are things about Hillary I get outraged over --

you didn't just ask a question though --you used a question to imply something about a member of DU --who is so far removed from being transphobic, that my head nearly fell off from all the eyerolling your post caused me to do.

If you're gonna be angry BE angry at the right people --LostinVA is not someone who you should piss on.

So am I gonna have to remove my earrings or you gonna step off my friend?

[AGirl]

213. Nope. I am afraid we will have to get into a mud fight.

I asked the question because I needed to ask the question. Anyone who called me "they" will get the question or a comment from me. That's how I am. The implication of callnig me "they" is just that, my name is fairly obvious of what gender I am. All she had to do was to answer my question.

As to stepping off of your friend? I have never stepped on her.

If she called me "they" again, I will asked her the same damn question. If she doesnt say a word to me again, I will forget about it. That is ALL.

If you have a problem with that, too bad. I really don't care. Yes, even if you are a transsexual.

[maddiejoan]

218. oh please

Like I haven't walked in them shoes for the last 20 freakin' years --I know exactly what you were doing.

Your SN is AGirl --you really think they were having to guess your gender?
Are you wrapped so tight that if someone doesn't specifically address you as 'she' you have to make a big deal about it?

Good luck in the big bad wide world with that attitude --honey.

[AGirl]

220. Well I am 24...idealist, innocent, bitchy , affectionate, boy-crazy, imperfect and demand the best.

If someone calls me anyone but a "she", they will get a mouthful from me. Maybe I will calm down when I am older, but no, now I just demand to live like any other girl.

[DS1]

223. dude, chill out

[AGirl]

225. yeah, fuck you too. "Dude".

[maddiejoan]

232. I notice you refer to LostinVA

as "they".

are you unclear about her gender? Huh? are ya? huh? are ya?

[AGirl]

238. Bullshit. I said they because I was suggesting ANYONE who calls me anyone but a "she" will get it

from me.

I don't give a shit if you want to attack me for questionning your friend.

I dont tolerate people calling me nothing but a "she", thats fucking that.

Even if I were to call your cisgender friend "they", it wouldn't mean shit since she is not a transsexual and that can't hurt her in a way that it can hurt me.

[maddiejoan]

239. well, my 24 year old friend

If you wanna live as long as your 47 year old sister --you won't go looking for insults in every little woodpile.

It's very bad for your blood pressure --especially when you are on hormones.

IOW --chill out.

[AGirl]

240. I am okay with dying young and brave. Give me resepct or Give me death. :)

[boston bean]

261. I don't know, maybe it has nothing to do with gender, but maybe

a play on multiple personality. I mean you have been with O, against O, with Hillary, against Hillary, then for no one. and then the cycle starts again.

Now that is just a guess. I don't know the poster, but that is one way to look at it.

Or is was just a wording error.

[LostinVA]

229. I've also heard people sometimes put Vaseline on their faces

I wouldn't want my friend to get her face scarred.

:pals:

[maddiejoan]

233. oh it's on now

:hi:

[maddiejoan]

234. oh it's on now

:hi:

[LostinVA]

237. hehehehe

[LostinVA]

194. btw -- we want to try to come into Brooklyn this Spring and meet you

I'm just warning you, though: Haruka is transphobic (she'll kill me if she reads tha!).

[Marrah_G]

206. ~sniff~ I am jealous

[maddiejoan]

226. Great!

We can go to the Botanical Gardens!

[LostinVA]

253. That sounds like a plan

As long as you can promise Haruka won't be attacked by roving gangs of Freeper cougars.

[mitchtv]

265. Ohhhh I'm jealous

I grew up in Queens (hehheh)
and could use a dose of NYC and Katz' deli

[stevenleser]

271. I live in Astoria...

and was at a great Deli like Katz the other day. Yum

[mitchtv]

275. grew up in Jackson Heights ,neighbor

94st/35th ave. near the White Castle on Northern Blvd

[Debi]

165. You'll be needing this

:hug:

:crazy:

[LostinVA]

191. What does Spongebob call it?

Backwards Day?

Here, I'll try: "Cougars are sick, twisted people!"

:pals:

Thanks, Punkin.

[Debi]

208. And cradle robbers are evil perverts...

Oh..wait...I don't have this concept down.

:crazy: Is it Denver yet?

[LostinVA]

210. OMFG -- Obamatronbotoidinator

No, it isn't.

:cry:

[maddiejoan]

227. as a transgendered 'cougar'

I highly resent this.

[LostinVA]

230. I didn't know you were a Cougar, too!!!!

Yay!

[maddiejoan]

235. that is the current vernacular --

for horny middleaged broad on the prowl -- yes?

[LostinVA]

236. Yes and no

SEXY middle-aged broads who have "trophy husbands/wives/BFs/GFs."

Haruka is 18 years younger than me, and Debi's husband is about 20 years older than her.

[maddiejoan]

242. Then you can call me Charlie

The lonesome cougar :(



That's right, folks.

She's single!

[xmas74]

260. I was called a cougar a few days ago.

I had no idea that 33 was middle aged.

Welcome to our club!

[Huge Ego Sorry]

291. WTF!!!!

I just turned 33 a week ago and I sure as hell ain't ready to be middle aged. I'm still cool and hip and listen to Iron Maiden and Megadeth.

[xmas74]

317. The "kitten"

was 19 and angry. That's why she referred to me as a "cougar bitch-like her mother's friend".

I hate snotty little kids.

[Huge Ego Sorry]

318. I know where you're coming from...

hell, I work at a bar; and a few weeks ago I had a recently-of-age young woman ask me "who the hell" Phil Collins was. :shrug: What to do?

[xmas74]

320. I've had them ask me if I was alive during any number of events.

(I won't even name them but yes, I was alive and I remember them happening.) It's almost insulting at times.

My favorite is when they ask who an artist is or when they ask about movies. That always kills me.

[LittleClarkie]

205. I don't think she supports anyone. She's come out against both Obama and Hillary

Not sure who that will leave come November. Nader? McCain?

[LostinVA]

212. It was Gravel last week -- I kid you not!

[LittleClarkie]

215. Isn't he, like, out of the race or something?

What's she going to do, write him in?

[AGirl]

219. I am not sure about his status in the race, someone said hes still in , someone said hes out. lol.

[AGirl]

217. You are right, I do support Gravel. He is excellent.

[LostinVA]

252. Then, you're on the wrong board -- this is DEMOCRATIC underground, not LibertarianUnderground

[AGirl]

278. I didnt say I will VOTE FOR him in the GE, I said I support him and HIS ideas.

Maybe I am in the wrong place, maybe not, none of your fucking business.

[Ron Green]

7. *yawn*

[xchrom]

8. recommend

[AGirl]

20. Thanks.

[NJSecularist]

9. It's just unbelievable how the Hillbots continue to throw loyal Democrats under the bus

because they don't march in step with Queen Clinton.

Kennedy said Senate approval of the bill could pave the way for extending protections to transgender workers next year, when he hopes Democrats will increase their numbers in Congress and a Democratic president supporting gay rights will be in the White House.

Did you miss this part?

[rodeodance]

64. Did the OP swith sides again?---

[MethuenProgressive]

72. HillBot Ted didn't just throw loyal Democrats under the bus, but Republican and Indie LGBTs too.

Shame on him.

[NJSecularist]

75. That is bullshit. Complete bullshit.

Ted Kennedy has done more for LGBT rights than anybody in Congress.

Since when has Hillary sticked her head out for a bill that would advance the rights of LGBT people? Do you have an example of one bill?

[MethuenProgressive]

90. Barney Frank, who has done more for the LGBT community than any other, disagrees with you.

See the OP.

[NJSecularist]

92. I should have been more clear: which senator has done more for LGBT rights than Ted Kennedy?

Hillary Clinton? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[DURHAM D]

138. What does Hillary have to do with this - the OP is an Obama supporter?

[maddiejoan]

163. last I looked

Hillary supported trans-inclusion in ENDA.

[LostinVA]

231. Yes indeed

[ieoeja]

94. Frank and Kennedy hold the exact same position.

Re-read the OP. Barney Frank introduced the House version of this bill which ALSO excludes T from the pro-LGB legislation and for the very same reason as Kennedy's bill.

[maddiejoan]

167. guess what

Barney Frank can kiss my trannie ass as well.

How ya like them apples?

[Cant trust em]

129. Maybe you should read the OP, since Frank authored the House bill

The House in November approved the bill, written by openly gay Rep. Barney Frank, D-Mass., despite strong protests from many gay rights advocates that it didn't cover transgender workers.

[Jamastiene]

298. "sticked" her head out???

"sticked"????

Ya mean you expect her to make herself look like that guy from Hellraiser?



What the hell have you been drinking?

Nobody else in Congress has to do that. Why should she? :shrug:

[foxeyes2]

247. Could is the operative word for me

He said "Could" which means there is no guarantee that it will pass next year or the year after or even 10 years from now as stand along legislation. Transgenedered should be included in this bill.
None are free until all are free and for GLB folks to get protection from discrimination while Transfolks don't is despicable and it is wrong absolutely wrong. There should be no compromise, no backing down, no leaving anyone out. As gay (all inclusive use)people we have been left out, have been disenfranchised, have been kept from the table and for "gay leaders" and "supporters" to turn around and do the same thing to others is unaccpetable and the very defintion of hypocrisy. I stand in solidarity with my trans brothers and sisters and if that means delaying this bill and dealying getting equal protection under the law then so be it. That is the right thing to do and no one can convince me otherwise.

[GodlessBiker]

10. When you get old, you tend to, not always but usually, take the path of least resistance.

[mitchtv]

269. and some of us get tired of waiting

"til the right time" Incrementalism has its time and place. I suggest that time has passed

[Apollo11]

11. So your position is: Give us everything right now. Or nothing. Never.

Did you never hear of the expression "one step at a time"?

[Ian David]

13. All Must Fear The Wrath of Kyle! n/t

[Tyler Durden]

22. How about "Give me LIBERTY, or give me DEATH."

Or "LIVE FREE OR DIE?"

Time to say FUCK YOU to to ANYONE who wants to limit Equal Treatment Under The Law (see: US Constitution, 14th Amendment).

How's about we change the Voting Rights Act to remove any references to Native Americans? Think that will go over well with THAT community?

[AGirl]

131. my position is : Bush would have veto the exclusive bill ANYWAYS.

My position is that if the bill won't be passed into law anyways, the only reason for doing it is to show gay people that the Senate and the Congress have *done* something. It's to make themselves look good while throwing transsexuals out of the LGB bus.

[Ian David]

12. The leaders of several transgender groups agreed, with hesitation, to accept having to wait.

Meanwhile, there is a transgender rights bill being evaluated in Massachusetts right now.

[AGirl]

24. The leaders of several transgender groups agreed...? and how many transgender don't?

[Ian David]

43. I didn't say this was a good thing.

And I'm not absolutely certain that it is meant to be public knowledge, so I'm afraid I can't name my source.

The leaders of those transgender rights groups who agreed albeit with great hesitation to sit still for having their rights put on hold certainly weren't making a popular decision for their constituents.

But whatever they heard about what was going to be done was apparently sufficiently reassuring.

What I'm trying to say is, I understand and share the anger over what was done, but I also think you shouldn't lose hope about what is now being done.

[AGirl]

47. I don't care what my "Leaders" say. How's that?

[Ian David]

77. Their salary is paid by your donations. They work for YOU.

Here's a reprint of something I posted here back in November 2007 (and later sent in a letter to my congress-critters):

IanDB1
Thu Nov-08-07 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #3

4. If anything, I think it should be EASIER to protect transgendered rights than gay rights Updated at 10:13 AM

Studies have shown that those who believe people are "born gay" are more likely to support gay rights than those who believe it is a "choice."

Personally, I believe people are born somewhere on the Kinsey Scale, but even if it were a choice, that does NOT justify discrimination.

Every transgendered person I have ever met, or seen on TV, looks-- and has ALWAYS looked-- obviously different than most non-transgendered people. They are OBVIOUSLY BORN transgendered, as opposed to having "chosen" to become transgendered.

And in the case of some transgendered people, there are cases where they are born with various combinations of multiple types of genitalia and other obvious, sexual differences, that they were BORN with.

And in some other cases of transgendered people, there are unusual combinations of male-female chromosome combinations in their DNA.

My god... how can you justify discriminating against someone on the basis of something they were born with, that you can see in their blood?

Imagine if there were a single gene you could test someone's blood for, at birth, to determine if they were gay, straight or bisexual. How would anyone be able to justify discriminating against them then?

While I believe that gay, straight, bisexual and transgendered people all deserve equal rights and equal protection, I also think that transgendered rights should be "an easier sell" than gay rights to the general population.

It should be EASIER to convince people to support Transgendered Rights, because it is much more obvious that Transgendered People were BORN they way they were, just like some people are born white, black, yellow, albino, or left-handed.

Maybe we should have STARTED with Transgendered Rights, with the understanding that we would re-visit gay rights in 2009.

More:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=221&topic_id=59845

[maddiejoan]

204. Bingo!

You get a Kewpie Doll!

[ourbluenation]

146. Best of luck getting any changes made with that approach. n/t

[EmilyAnne]

14. I wonder why they left transgendered people out. That's weird. I'm disappointed in this. I'm off

to do some googling. I'll still love Ted, though. He was right about Iraq and he had the guts to vote that way!

[rox63]

80. Because the whole thing would not have passed with the Congress we currently have

They want to get the rights they think will pass with the current Congress, and try for the rest next year, when we should have a more liberal Congress.

[EmilyAnne]

88. I see. That makes sense, though I hate it. I can't wait for this whole sick, sorry homophobic

chapter in American history to be over.

[AGirl]

118. And the Bill would not be passed anyways with Bush as the president.

[theboss]

308. Because it has no chance of being passed if transgendered people are included

The general tide is towards acceptance of Lesbians, Gays, and Bisexuals.

That tide does not exist for the transgendered.

[CountAllVotes]

15. "Fuck Ted Kennedy. That's all."

of course that is all. *yawn*

[Red Zelda]

16. Hmmm. Get out of Iraq vs. crossdresser rights

There's a debate for the general public.

[GodlessBiker]

19. You think this is about cross dressers?

[Tyler Durden]

28. DO YOU SEE????

This is about EQUAL RIGHTS, and there are those that are ready to sacrifice YOURS for an agenda.

SPEAK! STRIKE! REDRESS!

[Red Zelda]

You have rights.

Do you bother to exercise them?

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Red Zelda]

54. You certainly have anger issues

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Red Zelda]

73. Sorry, princess, I'm too busy

thinking about the economy, infrastructure, war, grocery prices, gas prices, energy, climate change and myriad other issues to worry about whether you crossdress or change sexes or wear a lampshade to bed with your horse or hate politicians who don't put you ahead of 5,000 more serious problems facing this nation.

OK, say "fuck" some more so everyone pays attention to you.

[Name removed]

79. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[yardwork]

82. Here's a clue. Disregard for some people's rights creates an environment that disregards all rights

A country that is willing to ignore and even laugh at the lack of rights on the part of some citizens will ignore and laugh at your rights eventually, as you've noticed. There's no coincidence that the U.S. has fallen behind much of the rest of the western world in providing equal gender rights to its citizens. The U.S. has fallen behind much of the western world in respect to all rights - including health care, the economic, war, criminal justice, energy, climate change and myriad other issues that are directly linked to human rights.

When you deny one group of people's rights to be treated with dignity, you deny the basis for human rights.

[AGirl]

89. Thanks for this post. Nice.

[yardwork]

107. You're welcome. We're all in this together.

Some people need to be reminded.

[Marrah_G]

164. What a disgusting post- you owe her an apology.

[maddiejoan]

179. wanna try that again?

I can assure you I'm not nearly as pleasant about securing MY rights as AGirl has been.
So unless you really really really want to start some static -I suggest you rethink your position and apologize to AGirl.




Go ahead, Zelda -- Trivialize the equal rights of the sector of the LGBT community that is most visible --and most in need of protection.
Shows way more about you then it does about the OP.

She is justifiably upset with Kennedy, and she has every RIGHT to be so.

[mitchtv]

274. you are a real creature

of the darkside aren't you? a true religous Jim Jones Obama-nable

[readmoreoften]

286. Wow, the leader of the Zapatista rebellion in Mexico is for transsexual rights.

And he's busy trying to stop the US trained Mexican military from murdering tens of thousands of people. But he has time to walk and chew gum on the issue. So why the FUCK are you so busy that you can fight for LGBT rights and the rights of Iraqis at the same time?

Riddle me that, genius?

[MaineDem]

102. This would be a good opportunity to educate people

"suggesting transsexuals are the same as crossdressers"


It's clear you're upset but not everyone, even liberals like DU posters, have a complete grasp on the situation. This would be a good time to educate rather than alienate folks.

[AGirl]

106. OMGod, are you serious? I have to teach people the difference between crossdressers and transsexuals

How sad.

[MaineDem]

115. I agree it's sad and, yes, I am serious

To many people they are the same thing.

Don't blame me, I'm just saying.

[readmoreoften]

287. My partner is considered a "cross-dresser" because she's a butch lesbian.

Any woman with short hair and pants can get fired for being a 'cross dresser.' The term itself is ridiculous anyway. Transgendered is the proper term. Whether your body is surgically altered is irrelevant. And my partner has also been kicked out of bathrooms and dressing rooms (women's) even though it was clear she is a woman. Another friend of ours was processed as a male by a nasty cop in NYC even though her name is KATHERINE and she said she was female. (She had a knife for opening boxes in the stockroom where she worked and the cop saw it in her pocket during a cigarette break.)

Some legal definitions:

Transgendered: not meeting James Dobson's idea of a good Christian man or woman
Transsexual: totally meeting James Dobson's idea of a good Christian woman, albeit post-operatively.

[AGirl]

310. Good point about crossdressers.

[Tyler Durden]

44. Yes I DO!

And I SUPPORT EQUAL RIGHTS FOR ALL.

I suggest you re-read your constitution, as NO NEW LAWS ARE REQUIRED, only enforcement of what already exists!

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Red Zelda]

29. So eloquent

Take your debate to Congress. Maybe they'll let you in.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Red Zelda]

49. And your point is?

Obviously you hate Sen. Kennedy and Sen. Obama and who knows what other Democratic causes all to the sole benefit of your own lifestyle. Curious politics. Hillary scorched-earth politics as well.

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Red Zelda]

58. I love you, too.

Freeper headcase

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Red Zelda]

68. You have just set a record for use of "fuck" in one thread

Is Harvard that tough on you?

[Toasterlad]

258. How Come None of YOUR Offensive Drivel's Been Deleted?

The word fuck isn't nearly as unappealing as your twisted world view.

How's about you give up YOUR rights until everyone else has them, if they're no big deal? Stupid ass.

[dionysus]

119. awww, here you go

banky will make it all better;

[Bluenorthwest]

128. Hey there Red

You are so very wrong headed on this issue, you really need to think twice before tying Obama up in your postings. Cross dressing and lifestyle? What planet do you live on, the one with no books, no internet, and dictionaries written by Republican religionists?
But by all means keep lifting the veil on your true nature, guignol is always entertaining.

[GodlessBiker]

63. Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.

[Tyler Durden]

31. SOLIDARITY!

SPEAK! STRIKE! REDRESS!

EQUAL RIGHTS FOR ONLY SOME IS EQUAL RIGHTS FOR NONE!

[dsc]

109. would you have dared post this nonsense to blacks in 1960?

after all we had the cold war to fight why worry about little things such as colored drinking fountains. :sarcasm: I am willing to bet you don't have to worry about your rights anytime soon.

[Hippo_Tron]

222. You're an incredibly ignorant person, end of story

[DrCory]

249. Do you not know...

that the term "crossdresser" is considered highly offensive by many TG people?

Geez

[Toasterlad]

257. Wow. You're Ten KINDS of Idiot.

[cali]

17. how you feel about Ted Kennedy is precisely

how I feel about the likes of you.

[yardwork]

86. What a horrible thing to say. Are you attacking the OP because she is transgendered?

[LittleClarkie]

211. No, I think it's because of how she presents herself

There is nothing in cali's post to suggest it's because agirl is transgendered.

I have a similar feeling to agirl that I have for such people as mtnsnake. It matters not whether they are gay, straight, transgendered, black, white or a shade of purple.

Meanwhile, I'm still wonder what she will do come November, having come out against both Hillary and Obama. Nader? McCain?

[littlebit]

18. Wait

you forgot to say his car has killed more people than your gun.:sarcasm:

[cali]

21. You forgot to say "Fuck Barney Frank" Oh, that's right. Frank supports

hillary. And don't even begin to spew that garbage about how you don't really support her. Pure stinking hypocrisy.

[Cant trust em]

136. Shouldn't this whole thing be outside of GDP?

General discussion of the LGBT forum seems to make much more sense.

[maddiejoan]

182. Allow me

Fuck Barney Frank.

see --it's easy.

[Creideiki]

277. I'm with you there

Barney Frank should know better. I've heard him give this same platitude over and over and it just rings hollow.

And before someone says something, Hillary's attitude on equal civil marriage rights isn't winning any points for her, either.

[David__77]

23. Oh no! Kennedy is supporting a gay rights bill!

My...

[Politicub]

25. I support the incremental approach

and think its selfish to deny LGB folks protections. This will lift all boats - all the "transgendered rights or nothing" folks are doing is giving the right an easy way to poke at the left to deny protections to anybody.

Change takes time, and this would be a positive step. Good for Kennedy and good for Obama.

[AGirl]

27. I am selfish because I want equal rights, if you dont want my selfishness

than too fucking bad.

[Apollo11]

Way to respect each other, despite our differences!

:sarcasm:

[cali]

36. yes, trans folk deserve equal rights

take it up with Barney Frank. He's the one you should be castigating. This bill is his baby.

[AGirl]

39. I take it up with both Barney Frank and Ted Kennedy and anyone who supports this exclusive bill.

[cali]

60. You fucking well did NOT say a single fucking word about Frank

let alone saying "Fuck Barney Frank". YOU completely ommitted him from your loony tirade. You went after Kennedy who has made clear that he wants to extend these rights to trans folks. Hypocrisy writ large and it stinks.

[AGirl]

65. Fuck Barney Frank.

[lefty from jersey]

202. Barney say Yeah!

Barney is down with that idea...

[mitchtv]

272. says who?

careful

[EmilyAnne]

99. No, you're not selfish. I'm sorry you are so upset about this. I'm the L part of GLBT and I

promise that I, for one, won't forget about any part of the GLBT community. I completely understand where you are coming from. Its frustrating. I think you're delivery here is maybe what has made so many DUers respond without much sympathy, but I wish they would pay more attention to why you are upset. I think this is another compromise thing that will add up to equal rights for all of us, but it sucks that you have to feel left behind.


:hug:

[AGirl]

101. Thanks = )

[EmilyAnne]

120. You are very welcome. I understand people wanting to defend Ted Kennedy. I like Ted Kennedy.

Still, I just can't believe the way people are responding to you when its obvious that you are upset about something that personally affects you. Do we just HAVE to have SOMEBODY to all gang up on? Jeez. I shouldn't even have to write this. It should go without saying.

[EmilyAnne]

62. True, but at the same time, incremental change sucks for the people who are left behind. I

understand A Girl's frustration. We just need to keep pushing any and all LGBT issues until there is full equality. Period.
I really think that in 20 years, people will look back at this time and shake their heads. It'll happen.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DarienComp]

33. Mara Keisling may be right about the vast majority of LGBT organizations...

but, of course, the vast majority of LGBT PEOPLE are quite tired of making the perfect the enemy of the good, and we'd like something passed this year. No, it isn't perfect. It's a work in progress... much like this country.

On edit: And, I must say, AGirl, your utter lack of respect for anyone with a different opinion helps nobody, least of all T*s.

[DURHAM D]

142. What you said. eom

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

34. Fuck Martinez fuck fuck Martinez

Fuck Navarro Fuck Fuck Navarro......

[CTLawGuy]

276. fuck tha police

comin straight from tha underground...

[myrna minx]

38. Why aren't links supplied in this forum anymore? n/t

[AGirl]

41. go to www.365gay.com

[greguganus]

305. Fuck links! n/t

[beachmom]

42. In the article you cite, Barney Frank also opposed including transgenders.

Barney Frank supports Clinton. So ..... now what say you?

Oh, and you should provide a link.

[AGirl]

45. So fuck Barney Frank and fuck his support of Clinton.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

52. This is about to become a sex thread

:popcorn:

[Bad Thoughts]

46. Does this belong in GD:P?

Be angry, if you will, but this does not seem to be an issue related to the nominating process. Indeed, it seems better related to practical politics among GLBT community.

[AGirl]

48. It doesn't belong here? Humm, maybe it does or doesn't, but it's here, and its queer.

So get used to it. :)

[Bad Thoughts]

69. I am used to it

I live in the only state with same-sex marriage, in an area with an over-representative gay population and large body of scholars in gender and queer studies. I can't avoid discussing GLBT issues. I appreciate that GLBT agencies have played politics with great savvy in the last few years, picking their battles and arenas with great care. The issues of concern for GLBT individuals and families seem so peripheral to this year's process, whereas they dominated in 2000 and 2004. The worst thing that happened was that Richardson couldn't figure out what he believed.

[AGirl]

71. Are you used to being a transssexual?

I am. :)

[Bad Thoughts]

93. I understand disempowerment

I understand belonging to a minority in this country. I understand the threat of being seen as an outsider, undeserving of a political voice. I understand being seen as the beneficiary of affirmative action. I understand the threats of those who don't see my family as being truly American.

I also understand the work of friends and co-workers who wanted to see same-sex marriage realized, and I supported them with time and money.

[AGirl]

96. well, I am asian, so i am a minority too...but theres a difference between being a minority

and being a minority within a minority within a minority within a minority within a minority....

But thanks for writing to me anyways, its nice to see that you care. I don't understand, however, of being seen as the beneficiary of affirmative action, because transsexuals don't get AA.

[Bad Thoughts]

105. My point ...

... is underline personal experiences related to my own identity as well as my activism that relate to GLBT issues. With regards to affirmative action: because conservatives attack such things as domestic partnership, civil unions, and anti-discrimination measures as things that favor the minority at the expense of the majority. Should you get the reforms you desire, you will become the object of resentment.

[AGirl]

108. My point is that I am not just a minority, but I am so invisible I don't even get the resentment of

the preception that I have AA.

[Bad Thoughts]

112. Get what you wnat, and you will be resented

What you really haven't explained, though, is why you should be particularly angry about the reform. Even if it does not yet include you, it moves issues of discrimination closer. Indeed, it would not be much of a logical jump for a sympathetic court to apply such a reform to cover the transgendered/transsexuals. Indeed, we need less of a Gaussian dynamic in which various social groups are polarized against each other, but see it in their common interest to defend each other.

[AGirl]

117. The exclusive Bill will be VETO by Bush ANYWAYS.

I am angry that the establishment is okay with kicking transsexuals out of the bus anytime they want in order to gain the right to say that they have done some stuff for gay people. That's fucking why.

[Bluenorthwest]

137. A serious reply

The two remaining candidates are almost duplicates in policy. These issues are primary issues to me, as the subtle difference between the parsed support of one and the other will probably decide my upcoming Primary vote.
I would also offer the idea that as long as the greater community insists on a voice in issues about GLBT rights, the greater community might get used to discussing those issues with the ones who are affected by the decisons made by the greater community. In other words, if you let us write the law, we can go to GLBT and do so. Will straight Democratic voters and officials stand by what we decide, all by our selves, in our seperate cottage on the information river? I hardly think so. In fact one of our current candidates insists that those religiously opposed to our very existance will get a place at the table when our rights are up for grabs. So that makes this an issue that sould be all ours, but y'all have insisted be mostly yours. As long as McClurkin and Dobson get a place at my table, I'm not so upset about seeing this issue at your table, you know.
If the mods disagree they will act accordingly I assume. That is their job, not yours nor mine. But I'm sure our whole diverse community would agree that if the straight world wanted to sit this out, we'd be glad to handle it without you.

[Ian David]

50. See also

Shocking! and With Photos! SOON! VERY SOON (Transgender rights bill before Mass. Legislature)
Topic started by IanDB1 on Mar-07-08 09:11 AM (5 replies)
Last modified by UncleSepp on Mar-10-08 04:20 AM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=221&topic_id=67303

Enemies of Equality Are Attacking Again! Contact Massachusetts Congress-critters TODAY!
Topic started by IanDB1 on Mar-03-08 05:19 PM (5 replies)
Last modified by Tyler Durden on Mar-04-08 12:18 PM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=221&topic_id=66724


Advocates, opponents of trans rights bill to have their say on Beacon Hill
Topic started by IanDB1 on Mar-03-08 05:36 PM (0 replies)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=221&topic_id=66733


Gay rights groups angered by weaker antidiscrimination bill
Topic started by rodeodance on Oct-02-07 09:59 PM (17 replies)
Last modified by David Zephyr on Oct-03-07 03:14 PM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=3014692

NGL Task Force condemns decision to remove hate crimes provisions from Defense authorization Bill
Topic started by IanDB1 on Dec-06-07 04:20 PM (2 replies)
Last modified by 94114_San_Francisco on Dec-06-07 06:48 PM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3801808

[Debi]

53. I thought Ted Kenndy didn't count? n/t

[AGirl]

55. I thought you don't count.

[Debi]

70. What does that even mean?

I guess you could be right, I mean according to the Clinton campaign Iowa doesn't count and I'm from Iowa.

Or else it means that you've worked yourself up into such a tizzy that you can't carry on a coherent conversation with other posters.

Yeah, I'm guessing the latter myself.

:hi:

[BeyondGeography]

57. Fuck, fuck, fuck and fuck

Fuck.

[Debi]

66. Man, somebody needs a vaca!

:rofl:

[Ichingcarpenter]

85. But what about Fuck? Seriously?

Fucking Shit, Fucking A, Fucking Fuck, Fuck?

[NJSecularist]

74. It is very offending to insult somebody who has done more for GLBT rights than anybody in Congress.

[Debi]

76. You know you're asking for an F-bomb don't you? n/t

[greguganus]

306. Fuck F-bombs!! n/t

[AGirl]

78. Oh really? Well, I don't give a shit cuz I am offended by Ted Kennedy.

[NJSecularist]

83. Calm down. Think clearly. If Ted Kennedy isn't an ally of the LGBT commmunity, who is?

Do you have an example of anybody who has done more for LGBT rights than Ted Kennedy in Congress?

Please reply without another F bomb.

[AGirl]

84. I never said the F word to you.

[Ian David]

81. I suggest you engage in a solitary exercise of your rights under Lawrence v. Texas. n/t

[Blu Dahlia]

87. Kennedy is his own man. Stop trying to link his vote to Obama

[zulchzulu]

95. I see your point, mother f#cker

F#CK! F#CK! F#CK! F#CK! F#CKITEY F#CK! F#CK! F#CK! F#CK! F#CK! F#CK!

A question though... is Kennedy and Frank's intention to take out the "transgender part" of protection seen as making it more passable or are is the transgender community being shown the door by the LGB community?

F#CK! F#CK! F#CK!

[dsc]

104. sadly it is a little of both

though all but one gay orgainization has held firm thus far.

[redqueen]

98. Watch it now! Don't make me vote for McCain!

See what you're doing? You're making McCain win!

[americanstranger]

114. AND making the baby Jesus cry!

Maybe Skinner should think of adding a 'temper tantrum' forum.

More and more posts here would be right at home in such a forum.

- as

[dsc]

100. This is an answer to both you and the people who answered you

I think both Frank and Kennedy are wrong here. If we had a President in the White House who would sign a bill which didn't include transgendered people but would sign one which didn't; then, I might think differently. But this isn't the case. This bill is nothing but a political statement and as such should be the perfect, not the good. I won't go as far as you and say fuck Kennedy or fuck Frank, but I do see your position. Both Kennedy and Frank should know better.

[xchrom]

111. of course they should -- this is a kind of pandering.

we'll go this far -- but not this far in order not to offend.

in the mean time -- it opens up trangenedered people to more discrimination.

[dsc]

113. worse than that

it weakens our ability to pass an inclusive bill when we do get a Democratic President and larger majorities. Again, if there are an option between no bill at all and a non inclusive bill then I might think differently. It would be a closer call but this really isn't that close.

[xchrom]

151. agreed -- rationality is on the side of inclusion.

gone are the days when we had to settle -- but fear of labelling will keep these 'stalwarts' in their place -- as indeed it would even with a larger majority -- and that's if they would revisit it at all.

[Cant trust em]

133. Wouldn't it have been better to wait until January

and then pass the bill we want to pass? I support full rights for the LGBT community, but this isn't something I've thought about. Wouldn't it be better to do this one time correctly instead of having to piecemeal it?

Thoughts?

[dsc]

135. pretty much though for some GOP senators this could be a problem vote

so in that case I say go for it. But to pass a flawed bill only to be vetoed is stupid.

[dogday]

110. I like old Teddy and I am not going to badmouth another

Democrat.. Not today and not tomorrow... We need to stop beating up our own team members and start concentrating on the larger picture of beating the crap out of that old bastard McCain....

[dionysus]

116. wail, ghash... wail gnash... rinse repeat... render garments.. gnash...

[grantcart]

124. My brother in law has suffered tremendously

Grew up in another country which is famously tolerant of transgender folks (Thailand).

But at the time in the rural area he grew up in they didn't understand why a little boy would only wear a dress.


They forced him to wear pants and he refused. The disciplined him and spanked him but he refused.


As a result he never went to school.



This sweet fellow who has never in his life said a single harsh word against another human being was marginalized.


I am sorry for transgender folks who have to combat so much inequality and hostility from the world. It is a terrible burden


that is carried by some of the sweetest folks who have ever walked this earth.

[AGirl]

127. :cries:

[grantcart]

130. me too

[DerekJ]

134. Agirl: You are hurting your own cause with this stupid outrage. Dare I say manufactured?!!

Raging against the senators, that are trying hard to get you your rights, won't help.

Trying to insinuate that he changed his position because he endorsed Obama shows that you are ..well..using your own cause to create manufactured political outrage against Barack... hmm.. disingenuous, and pathetic?!!

[Bluenorthwest]

154. Consider your tone, and the OP's

Consider that the OP is subject to legal, openly spoken discrimination in housing and employment, and will continue to be under the bill that is now passing. They left me in, and left her out, so she is royally and righteously angry. I have heard others use strong and questionable rhetoric that I also felt was justified. God damn America, fuck Ted Kennedy. I get the reasons for both statements and support the speakers of both, fully knowing that they are expressing hyperbolic anger that is not intened as a literal thing, but as a poetic call to attention to an injustice.
The OP can legally be refused service in a restaurant or hotel. Today. So, gee, some passion around this issue seems not only reasonable, but a sign of a strong self image.
If someone can be fired or evicted for being who they are, which happens daily, then frankly any words or rhetoric that person might use is justified. Calling a human asking for basic legal protections pathetic? Anger over being left out of the protections you call stupid? If fair acess to housing and jobs is not worth bein outraged over, then tell me, what is?
Would you call the anger of other groups who have used the strongest of rhetoric in their quest for rights disingenuos as well?
And you know what? You have no standing to tell the OP or anyother minority how they should and should not seek justice. The arrogance is stunning and revelatory. Your posting did far more harm to Obama's image than a pissed off voter yelling at Teddy (who can take it) ever could. I vote May 20.

[AGirl]

158. Thank you. And you are right.

[DerekJ]

245. See post #243 since you agree with him/her.

[DerekJ]

243. heheheheh...What a stupid post

“Your posting did far more harm to Obama's image than a pissed off voter yelling at Teddy (who can take it) ever could. I vote May 20”

The repeated meme that any Obama supporter has somehow a rubber stamp on the back of his neck saying “Official Campaign representative” is becoming ridiculous. And trying to bully me into curbing my opinion because that is not in the favor of my candidate , and to continue that by threatening a change of vote if I don’t seize is preposterous. The idea that you make your preference based on some candidate supporter behavior goes against your mental faculty not in your favor. You can vote whoever you fucking desire. I don’t give a damn.

“And you know what? You have no standing to tell the OP or anyother minority how they should and should not seek justice.”

Funny!! I don’t recall that affinity to the right of minority groups to seek justice, and voice their anger any way they please, when Rev. Wright was voicing his opinion against injustice done by others to the black community. Why is it an outrage now and not then? Why can’t you stick same ideals when it’s not in your favor? Hypocrisy!!! :puke:

The idea that unless you are one of them, you can’t criticize them has so many flaws. I don’t have to be gay to criticize gays, or Muslim to criticize Muslims, or a Jew to criticize Jews. I also don’t have to be one of them to sympathize with them, advocate for their rights, and stand firm against injustices done against them.

“they are, which happens daily, then frankly any words or rhetoric that person might use is justified. Calling a human asking for basic legal protections pathetic? Anger over being left out of the protections you call stupid? If fair access to housing and jobs is not worth being outraged over, then tell me, what is?”

Thanks for the lecture on LGBT rights. At what point did I proclaim those rights Pathetic?!! Twisting words, to make me look like a bigot?!!!
I called out on the OP obvious manufactured outrage. Look at this :
“Fuck Ted Kennedy's Endorsement of Obama.”
Explain to me what does Obama has anything to do with Kennedy’s vote?!! If you manage to create any logical connection between Kennedy’s vote, and his endorsement to Obama, I will concede, and call myself, a heartless asshole.

“Consider that the OP is subject to legal, openly spoken discrimination in housing and employment, and will continue to be under the bill that is now passing. They left me in, and left her out, so she is royally and righteously angry. I have heard others use strong and questionable rhetoric that I also felt was justified. God damn America, fuck Ted Kennedy. I get the reasons for both statements and support the speakers of both, fully knowing that they are expressing hyperbolic anger that is not”

Let me rephrase what I said in other words. While the OP’s ends are radical (relative to the closed minded society in the U.S), her means should be pragmatic. You can’t draft a bill that gives the LGBT all their rights at one shot. And attacking the senators advocating for your rights doesn’t really help. You need to get some rights, hold on to them, and then push for more.

You can take it or leave it, I don’t give a fuck.

[CreekDog]

139. If Ted Kennedy gets the F-bomb from you, there aren't many in congress that are better

on these issues.

i personally think you should distinguish your friends on this issue in politics from people actively opposed. otherwise what's the point in him sticking his neck out for you?

he's already rhetorically stuck his neck out and said this was important, so he's not getting the personal political gain of opposing transgender rights. he's simply agreeing that there aren't the votes to pass the bill the way you want it now.

that's not about opposing you, it's about math. he's saying he needs more votes to do what you want.

this is your job to find those votes, not just his.

[totodeinhere]

140. An incremental approach is often the most effective in the long run.

Kennedy is a political realist. He wants to try to avoid a Senate filibuster. As we know, the GOP still has enough votes in the Senate to mount a filibuster, and on this issue they might get a few votes from Dems in red states as well. So Kennedy wants to try to pass what is in the realm of possibility now, then hopefully in the next congress the Dems might have enough votes to add transgendered people to the list.

What is better, a bill that covers gay people but temporarily leaves off transgendered people, or no bill at all? Personally, I will go for incremental progress over no progress at all.

And then there is the real possibility that the GOP might use this as a wedge issue like they did last time. We don't want them to win another election by appealing to the anti gay bigotry of voters.

[onenote]

141. one half of the House co-sponsors of this bill have endorsed Clinton

Yet, the OP is titled "Fuck Ted Kennedy's endorsement of Obama"?

I think its lousy that the bill was amended. But how does it have anything to do with Obama? Want to be mad at Kennedy for capitulating? Fine. And be mad at Barney Frank, Jane Harman, Debbie Wasserman-Shultz, Bob Andrews, and Lynne Woolsey -- they all co-sponsored the offending bill and they all have endorsed Clinton.

My point,for those who may have missed it: Kennedy's endorsement of Obama has nothing to do with this issue just as the endorsement of Frank, et al of Clinton has nothing to do with it.

[AGirl]

152. It's not Obama's fault. The title is noted to show Kennedy's endorsement does not matter.

Because he lost my respect, thats all.

[grantcart]

155. good point

[AGirl]

156. I mentioned Kenney because his endorsement for Obama was freaking huge.

And in responding to that, this topic demonstrates how much I give a crap about that endorsement.

[grantcart]

178. Yes and I understand your anger.

unfortunately by focusing on Kennedy it undermines the stronger point with which I agree with you on; that transgender folks are being told to go to the back of the bus.

It is not advantageous to your position to antagonize people unnecessarily (there is enough resistance already). By narrowing the focus on to Senator Kennedy you personalized it and made it more difficult for people to see your point of view.


I know that it effects you personally but if you could present the issue more objectively and tie it to historical references that would help people see it in a different light (like the back of the bus) then it would help you achieve what you want and that is to have more people consider what is going on.

I am sympathetic to your position. In addition to the reply above my niece died of aids when infected by her husband at the age of 23.


But I don't feel like I am a member of the larger GLBT community because so much of what they say draws a line that makes it difficult for me to cross over - and I would like to. (the endless reposition on the self hating gay pastor that was at Obama's rally is an example).

Here is another example: If you frame the issue as 'gay marriage' it will take another 10-15 years for people to accept it because it has the connotation of accepting a 'gay' lifestyle. If instead it was simply framed as an 'equal rights issue' that marriage is part of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness and taking that right away from anyone for any reason is wrong, I think that we would have been much closer.

I hope you will forgive me for editorializing but I did it with a sincere hope that you will be able to advance your position more effectively in the future.

[AGirl]

185. Thanks, I agree with you that my OP was not very effective, *but*

Some people think that I have to be asking for people to support me everytime I say something related to me being a transsexual, well, I am not perfect. I am not s nice little transsexual girl who just wants the public support, I am also a human being with my own right to be angry and pissed off. And i don't feel like I have to justify myself for being human.

Thanks for your advice though. I agree with it.

[grantcart]

214. No I understand you better

you have a certain innocence in your posts that I didn't get for a long time.



I also admire you for standing up and having the courage to take the hits.



Unlike some of the people who have savaged you here (and in some cases I have to agree with what they said) I would be delighted if you were my neighbor

[AGirl]

224. its so sweet

that you notice things about me.

Awww. thanks for taking notice.

I am kind of young and i am not afraid to take hits and be a daredevil. I also don't demand alot.

[bowens43]

145. ah...you poor thing....... LOL

[ourbluenation]

148. Is your face enjoying having its nose cut off?

[Hieronymus]

172. Oh my, have you gone back to supporting Hillary, again?

[ZombieHorde]

177. "Fuck Ted Kennedy. That's all. "

Totally, anyone who works to increase gay civil rights is a godless jerk. Why does he hate America!

Kennedy said Senate approval of the bill could pave the way for extending protections to transgender workers next year, when he hopes Democrats will increase their numbers in Congress and a Democratic president supporting gay rights will be in the White House.

This is disgusting. I hope that that serial rapist (T.Kennedy) dies before before next year when he plans on passing this abomination of a law. Anyone who plans on increasing transgendered civil rights should be imprisoned.

[LowerManhattanite]

181. Hands down...

The single most disingenous OP and subsequent thread-sh*ttery (Has anyone spazzed out curse-wise at supposed comrades and opponents this badly without a subsequent dirtnap?) I have seen in the last six months on DU. Posts removed, entire sub-treads removed...all due to the OP's totally losing it.

Just...wow.

[Name removed]

186. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Swamp Rat]

188. Keep on attacking DUers like this and see what happens. n/t

[Name removed]

190. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

203. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[blogslut]

193. You are aware that this version of ENDA was introduced in the Congress, right?

Introduced by Barney Frank. It was Frank who fought the inclusion of Transgender rights into the bill.

Why are you upset with Ted Kennedy (who did not write this legislation) instead of Barney Frank? GLBT begged Frank to include Transgender protection and he rebuffed their pleadings.

[AGirl]

195. I was angry then , too.

[blogslut]

221. Then maybe you understand that these types of legislation are fluid

If this addition to ENDA passes both the house and the Senate, it opens the door for further additional rights down the line.

I am sorry that Transgender rights did not make it into Barney Frank's bill. That doesn't mean it won't be added later. Maybe sooner than you think, if we get a Democrat in the White House and over-majorities in the House and Senate.

I'm still mourning for the death of the Equal Rights Amendment. I hope to see it reborn, come next year. I'm not giving up that hope, regardless of anything.

[LittleClarkie]

199. I'm not sure why your outrage toward Ted Kennedy is being attached to his endorsement of Obama

I understand being angry at him for this bill, though I find it puzzling that Barney Frank authored the bill and made the omission. Does your anger extend to him as well?

But how is this tied to his endorsement of Obama? Why are you making that connection?

This should probably be a topic in the other forum.

And finally, shouldn't I get to know his endorsement first? Perhaps his endorsement should take me out to dinner or something.

[AGirl]

207. Well I have expressed my dislike of Barney Frank...

and the reason I mentioned Keenedy's endorsement of Obama is because that was a huge endorsement from a "Giant". I felt that I need to say how much I don't give a crap about his endorsement because Ted has lost my respect...

[TheWraith]

216. A bit of a volatile temper, don't you think?

Firebombing Kennedy and Frank, who've done more for gay rights than most of the rest of the Congress put together, simply because their bill isn't comprehensive, is rather extreme. Nobody can reasonably claim that they're not in support of the cause.

That's leaving aside the argument that says take all you can get now, and demand the rest afterwards--when there's precedent for expanded sex-discrimination laws.

[Forkboy]

244. Ahhh..DU...home of the funniest threads ever.

:rofl:

[AGirl]

250. Yup, being a transsexual who is discriminated against is FUCKING hilarous.

[Forkboy]

251. Yeah, I laugh about that all the time.

[hulklogan]

246. Fuck all the insensitive straight people in this thread who have no manners

I *heart* you AGirl :hug:

[AGirl]

248. Thank you. I love you too, Hulklogan. *First they ignore me, than they laugh at me, than they ...

[BlooInBloo]

264. So many people who don't matter to Clinton folks.

[kwenu]

266. Why is Ted Kennedy the only one singled out for fuck you treatment?

You're so full of shit AGirl. Kennedy wasn't even the original author. It was Barney Frank.

[Catherina]

270. Because Ted Kennedy endorsed Obama n/t

[AGirl]

280. You are full of shit. Barney Frank can kiss my ass too.

[undeterred]

268. I am very offended by "Fuck Ted Kennedy".

this is an obscene disrespectful anti-democratic thread.

[AGirl]

279. I am very offended that you are not offended at Ted Kennedy.

[Breeze54]

281. He's fighting to get this passed...baby steps, baby steps...

He knows these people and so should you! The fact that this very well may pass and then another 290 days to get the rest through should be hopeful to you. He's doing the best he can with whom he has to work with. I hope you're out campaigning for Progressive candidates for the Senate and the House. Ted needs our support in this fight, not your childish name calling. I'm surprised the bill has gotten this far, considering that the Dems barely have a majority in the Senate and we have 48 Blue Dogs who vote with Bush & the rethugs a lot of the time. That isn't Ted Kennedy's fault. That's the voters faults!
Instead of beating up Senator Kennedy, who IS on your side, help him by helping to get Progressives elected!!

[undeterred]

288. That is totally offensive to me.

YOU must be tarred and feathered immediately.

[Solon]

290. To be frank, YOU are the one who deserves to be tarred and feathered....

Attack someone who is pissed that their rights are being completely thrown under the rug? By Democrats no less, Agirl has EVERY fucking right to be pissed, and you are the one who is offensive.

[AGirl]

309. Thank you for seeing from my point of view.

[TheDonkey]

282. This battle is not NEW. Stop deluding yourself

[Solon]

289. Hmm... there are a lot of assholes on this thread...

A bunch of fucking poseurs who pretend to be for GLBT rights, fucking trolls and fakers. :puke:

[cboy4]

293. Why is it a disproportionate number of assholes

flock to LGBT threads like vultures?

Rhetorical question, of course, as a truthful answer would violate DU rules.


on edit, typo.

[Solon]

294. Because they are homophobic and transphobic assholes, that's why...

I'm seriously wondering if all this "the enemy(Democrats) of my enemy(Republicans) is my friend" shit is even working, for anyone.

When you have so many fuckers who laugh and scoff at REAL WORLD discrimination faced by AGirl and so many others, I seriously wonder who the fuck labeled this a liberal board. No better than freepers, the lot of them. Fucking assholic sycophants!

ON EDIT: I rarely follow the rules, especially when it comes to calling people out, especially when it comes to bigotry. I remember getting one of my own threads DELETED for calling out Obama Supporters who were being homophobic. Links and names were included, I didn't give a shit, some people I'm sure read it before it was pulled by the Mods. To be honest, I think that rule shouldn't be enforced in specific cases of calling out bigotry, if nothing else.

[cboy4]

296. Yea, I got into it with a bunch of pricks in GD who

get aroused calling people who pick grapes in the 110 California sun for 5 dollars an hour, "illegal aliens."

No better than freepers indeed.

[Solon]

297. I can never understand why people have to demonize the poor and oppressed...

for trying to survive or fight for their rights. I never can, and I don't consider those who do as worth the spit I'd waste if I met them face to face. They are no better than the freepers, in fact, in some ways, they are far worse, supposedly they are more informed, so they should know better. The freepers at least have just plain old ignorance to fall back on.

[saltpoint]

301. Big Ted Kennedy fan here.

Love the Kennedys.

[saltpoint]

304. CAN one actually fuck an endorsement? Picnic tables, sure. But endorsements?

By that theory, the more candidates there are in a primary race, the more everyone gets laid.

I like it.

[theboss]

307. The "T" on LGBT has always had a tenuous link, has it not?

I don't think anyone can deny that there have been huge strides in the acceptance of Lesbians, Gays, and Bisexuals in recent years. However, transsexuals are still largely looked upon as something akin to mental patients by a huge percentage of the population - even among some of the LGBT community, I think.

I think there are very practical political reasons behind this exclusion. Getting this legislation passed will be an uphill struggle even without the far more explosive transsexual issue attached to it.

[walldude]

311. Yeah fuck Ted Kennedy, and Obama, and Hillary too

Give us more of this:













Yeah 8 years of republican rule. Gimme more.

[Mimosa]

313. 8 more years fine with single issue voters

Walldude, your photo montage says it all. PRIORITIES count.

[Toasterlad]

314. Thanks. Willing to Give Up Your Rights Until I Have Mine?

If not, STFU, hypocrite.

[Mimosa]

315. STFU and namecalling: you're a class act, ToasterLad

You don't know me. And namecalling is supposed to be a no-no here. However at my home forum there are a few gay people who might love to educate you. If you're a kid, I was working for gay rights back after Stonewall. Shows what you don't know.~LOL~

[Toasterlad]

316. What a Great Job You've Done.

Thanks for the gay marriage. Oh, wait...you haven't got me that yet. What exactly was involved in your work for gay rights besides declaring them a low priority?

P.S. Bring on these mysterious educating gay people. I'm sure they'd have lots to tell me about not wanting equal rights until after every other problem in the country has been fixed. Or haven't they beamed that message to your brain from Fantasyland yet?

P.P.S. If you're NOT willing to give up your rights until I have mine, I'm only calling you what you are, hypocrite. Get your mysterious educating gays to explain that to you.

[Ken Burch]

319. I understand your outrage about the legislation...

But what does it have to do with who Ted endorsed for the nom? It's not like you can assume he'd be taking a different position if he'd endorsed HRC.

The thread title should be about the bill, not presidential politics, since it has no connection to presidential politics.

My only question is, if the bill includes transgender protections and is defeated because it does, are you saying the rest of the LGBT community should be OK with that outcome? It's not like such a defeat would lead to transgender rights being added next time.