Dean offered an olive branch to Florida. Delegate apportionment not settled.

[madfloridian]

He offered them a seat at the convention. He offered them hotel rooms. He has said all along he would do that.

In spite of that, Florida delegates will not get to vote on important issues concerning the nominee selection until a nominee is chosen or both sides agree. The latter is not likely to happen.

Floridians Now Booked to Return to the Fold


Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean gestures during an interview with The Associated press, Thursday, March 27, 2008, at DNC Headquarters in Washington.

Updated 2:12 p.m.
By Jonathan Weisman
After months of animus and finger-pointing, Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean offered Florida's Democratic House delegation an olive branch this morning: He booked them hotel rooms in Denver. It may not seem like much, but Florida House members hailed the gesture and the tone of the morning meeting as a breakthrough. Dean had pledged he would do everything in his power to seat Florida's delegates, months after he stripped the state of its convention voice after it moved its primary forward against party rules.

"Good tone, good tenor, everybody's on the same page," declared Rep. Alan Boyd (D-Fla.). "I now have confidence we can get this thing done."

Rep. Debbie Wasserman-Schultz admitted they were no closer to figuring out how those delegates would be apportioned. Hillary Rodham Clinton wants the results of the nullified Jan. 29 primary respected, while Barack Obama wants a 50-50 split so the apportionment wouldn't effect his lead. Wasserman-Schultz said everyone agreed it would take a few more contests to decide on the math.

"That won't be up to us," Boyd said. "The decision needs to be made by the campaigns."

The hotel gesture is not meaningless. There was real fear that by the time the standoff is resolved, no rooms would be left in Denver.

They further agreed they "will continue to work towards a solution to ensure delegates are seated and logistics are in place for a Florida delegation in Denver."

The deal has been started, it is not yet done.

Howard Dean said last night that he was not going to bend the rules toward either side.

DEAN: I would very much like to have Florida and Michigan seated. Because of the circumstances under which they held their elections, essentially which were not valid elections, they aren't going to be seated the same way that everybody else is.

They can be seated in one of two ways. ]One, they can be seated by agreement between the two campaigns if there is no clear winner, or, two, they will be seated I suspect by whoever does win the nomination. Whoever wins the nomination will control the credentials committee, which will control the seating. And I strongly believe our nominee is going to want Florida and Michigan in the hall. Under which rules, that will depend. The nominee will set the rules.

Overtures have been made, but this thing is not fully settled.

[Symarip]

1. Thanks for the update (n/t)

[madfloridian]

2. Well, someone will come along soon and tell me I am lying.

It's happened 4 times today already.

[Symarip]

3. I know they will

You're obviously full of malicious bullshit and lies with all your sources sited and everything.

[madfloridian]

5. That's what they have been telling me today.

:hi:

[JeffR]

6. Screw them!

You've done exemplary work on this issue for months now, and if anyone on DU - and sadly, there are many - wants to rush in with the same tired old allegations, I can assure you that many more of us appreciate your thoroughness, your even-handedness and your insight on this.

Your critics here have made utter fools of themselves. You, on the other hand, have been absolutely heroic.

[madfloridian]

8. It gets to me though, thread after thread.

I try not to let it get to me, but it does. It is just so easy here now to call someone a liar. Who knows who might believe it.

[JeffR]

12. Idiots will believe it, and there's no way to convince idiots.

Don't be discouraged. Thinking people need information. You've been providing that tirelessly. Though a Floridian but not a Florida voter, I've been following everything you've posted on this. Not only because what happens at home still matters to me, but because the truth matters above all. You deserve nothing but praise. Your critics and naysayers can go to hell.

[UALRBSofL]

30. JeffR This is the first time I've posted on a MF thread

in a long time. I'm not complaining or disagreeing with her posts. I'm just doing what it takes to do to get our votes counted without posting it on DU. The more I report on DU what's going on in florida and what were doing, the more resistance we get so I don't even mention this issue any more. That's all I have to say about MF's threads.

[Johnny__Motown]

9. 4 times? . oh come on.. that can't be true

KIDDING......

[madfloridian]

10. Yep. 4 times just today. I decided to start keeping track of who and how many.

It is getting to be a pattern.

[Tatiana]

4. First of all, I must say that Dean looks great in all the appearances he has made of late.

Very natural, confident, relaxed, at ease and comfortable. I think he knows how this will play out.

There have been negotiations behind the scenes. MI and FL (especially FL) seem to be stepping away from thumbing their nose at the DNC, and consequently, the DNC is now ready to negotiate in good faith. Listening to the Michigan governor and FL Dem party leaders over the past months, I have been very disgusted with how they let their respective citizens down in their quest for relevancy.

Personally, I think that as the truth is coming out regarding the incompetence of the Dem party leaders in those states, those elected officials are getting an earful from their constituents. Voters are not stupid. Some Michigan Dems switched and voted in the Republican primary for Romney to try to help our chances. They didn't think their election would count, so they made the best choice that they could with their vote. They should have held a caucus. The DNC would have paid for it.

I will be so happy when this thing is settled.

[madfloridian]

7. You make some excellent points.

Negotiating in good faith is not something Florida Dems have been doing. I hear some are ready to shut up and compromise now.

[Tatiana]

15. Yes, they are ready NOW. Now that they have been shown to have been the ones at fault.

Florida lost a hell of a lot of money from the lack of campaigning and advertisements in the state.

Michigan also could have used the potential infusion of $$$ into their depressed economy.

Not only did the Dem leaders in those states screw over the Dem primary voters, but they screwed over the local businesses, schools, and other vendors who lost out on potential income. They screwed over the residents who longed for the opportunity to see and hear from the next President of the United States. I have family in Michigan and they are looking at our fellow Midwestern state of Indiana with a bit of disappointed envy. They are furious with Levin and Granholm.

Now that these leaders have come down from their high horses and are ready to deal with reality and not fiction, maybe we can get a fair and equitable solution.

[madfloridian]

22. It has taken this long for many Floridians to come around.

Two nights ago someone called and said they were upset about Hillary claims of sniper fire. Then he really let loose. He is not very politically savvy, but he knows what is right and wrong.

He said why are all of the FL Dem leaders always attacking the leader of the party.

[joshcryer]

11. Politico on how those delegates can be apportioned and Credentials Committee commentary:

“In a very closely contested race where both sides are going to have roughly equivalent numbers of pledged members of committees, is a big deal,” said Devine. “I assume that Michigan and Florida people are going to be in favor of Michigan and Florida people being seated.”

Politico reported Monday <http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0308/9298.html> that an analysis of the Credentials Committee vote, minus the 14 votes allocated to Florida and Michigan, showed that Clinton will not have enough pledged votes on the committee to deliver a majority decision in her favor.

Her only hope of getting the committee to vote out a “majority report” supporting her position relies on her ability to persuade an as-yet-undetermined number of the 25 committee members appointed by party Chairman Howard Dean.

Obama, who is all but certain to finish with more pledged votes on the committee, is unlikely to have enough votes, however, to capture a majority without also winning support from the 25 Dean appointees.
When the 14 combined votes of Florida and Michigan are counted, the Credentials Committee consists of 186 members who cast 183 votes. Four of those members are allocated to American Samoa, Guam, the Virgin Islands and Democrats Abroad, with each casting a .25 vote.

While the DNC position would not dramatically alter Clinton’s prospects, it could, at a minimum, get her several votes closer to a majority on credentials, depending on whether the committee seats are allocated according to the actual voting results in Florida and Michigan.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0408/9350_Page2.html

(page one discusses their getting seated, allowed into the DNC, represented, now all that remains to be seen is if the credentials committee will vote in their favor, the OP seems to think no, I think otherwise)

[madfloridian]

13. Obama will control the credentials committee.

FL can not vote on things involving themselves and the nominee.

[joshcryer]

14. That's our disagreement, and because it's future speculation we can't know.

But I was right that the DNC would seat them.

And I can't concieve of Obama refusing to do so.

It would be as if they were never there.

[madfloridian]

16. Only if he is the nominee. You are confusing in what you keep saying

Nearly everyone thought they would be seated at the convention, but they will NOT be given the same voting rights until a nominee is chosen or until both sides agree.

Obama is not crazy, and he is not going to agree to seat them as long as Hillary is saying she is going to win.

If it were anyone but Hillary, the Dem leaders would be stomping all over them. But Big Bill is a former president, and they are showing respect and letting them trample.

Obama is not going to make a deal against his best interest.

[joshcryer]

17. Since neither candidate can win without SDs I think party unity will be the best course of action.

Obama cannot piss off those SDs are the ones making that decision.

And why would he care about seating them or not if it doesn't hurt his pledge delegate majority?

[madfloridian]

20. I give up trying to understand your thinking.

[joshcryer]

21. :shrug: guess I'm back on ignore

Not sure what's faulty in my thinking.

[madfloridian]

23. Not yet. Not when your post is still there saying I lied.

In the other thread. I keep my friends close and my enemies very very close.

I am going back and checking for an apology. I don't see one yet.

[joshcryer]

24. There will be no apology unless I am shown to be wrong.

And since 'my thinking is not understandable' to you it should be quite difficult for any bridge to be gapped here.

[madfloridian]

25. Then I will keep you nearby. I will do what I have to do.

We have been this route often before. I will stand up for my rights now.

[grantcart]

18. Offer them unlimited hotdogs and beer and they will cave

[FlyingSquirrel]

19. Thanks for the continued updates and all your hard work.

:hi:

P.S. I KNEW he'd seat them.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=5161457

[BigDaddy44]

27. Throw in Nintendo Wiis

Those things are IMPOSSIBLE to find

[madfloridian]

26. Email from Hillary's campaign yesterday.. She is really using FL as a tactic.

She is manipulating the voters of two states who refused to play by the rules. She is not being honest.

From a post by hockeymom yesterday:

"Dear ,


It is a bedrock American principle: we are all equal in the voting booth. No matter where you were born or how much money you were born into, no matter the color of your skin or where you worship, your vote deserves to count.

But millions of people in Florida and Michigan who went to the polls aren't being heard. The delegates they elected won't be seated at the Democratic National Convention in Denver this August -- and that's just not fair to those voters.

The people of Michigan and Florida must have a voice in selecting our nominee for president. I have repeatedly called for seating their delegates.

Click here to join me in showing our support for seating Florida and Michigan delegates at the convention.

This is such an important principle, and I appreciate you standing up with me.


Sincerely,


Hillary Rodham Clinton "

[progressoid]

28. I'm glad I don't have to go anywhere but DU to get the scoop on this. Thanks MF!

[Alter Ego]

29. Fine. Seat them, but don't grant them a role in deciding the nominee.

They broke the rules--and Dean is already bending them to let this pass. If we bend them once, other states will bum-rush the primary limits.

[madfloridian]

32. No, not really bending the rules at all.

I think everyone expected they would be allowed at convention. I know I did.

Now, the candidates or the nominee will decide how their votes count.

[bvar22]

31. Thanks, mf.

Your work is appreciated.
:patriot:

K&R

[Scurrilous]

33. Thanks for the info.

:thumbsup:

[madfloridian]

34. Florida in return ridicules Dean for it. Way to go, Florida media.

http://www.news-press.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080403/OPINION/80403047/1075

"INSTANT EDITORIAL: Howard Dean surrenders to Florida"

"As Nelson in “The Simpsons” would say, “Hah-hah!” Howard Dean, chairman of the Democratic National Party, has said Florida’s delegates to the party’s national convention will be seated after all.

That’s despite the early primary the state held in January in defiance of the rules of both national parties.

Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton still have to negotiate how the delegates will be apportioned between them, but Florida has called the party’s bluff, and Dean blinked.

Now we need to press ahead against the primary system that triggered the rogue primary in the first place. Instead of giving the early voting each presidential election to the same small, unrepresentative states, set up a system of regional primaries, and rotate the order of voting."

[cyclezealot]

52. One thing for sure.

New Hamshire won't blink. The Secretary of State insists NH will be first, no matter what. Even if their primary is Christmas day of the preceeding year.

[madfloridian]

35. Video of the meeting with Dean and FL delegation.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x114124

Video of Dean discussing these issues with Campbell Brown.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x114121

[Texas Hill Country]

36. so basically, they will be seated but make no difference... nice.

[Zachstar]

37. If clinton wants to be foolish then fine. Obama will seat them 50/50 once we get to the convention.

I can't believe Clinton wants to continue this idocy. The whole point of the move was to seat them so they wont affect the outcome. Can Clinton not understand that?

[DerekJ]

38. Thanks Madi.

And thanks for your information yesterday on my thread, I was freaking out, and you managed to calm me down :)
:yourock:

[Major Hogwash]

39. Damn, madfloridian! You're more accurate than the MSM.

I know that sort of sounds like a backhanded compliment, but I didn't mean it that way.

I mean, the MSM isn't even being as accurate as you have been on this story.

And that's kind of surprising, but not all that surprising, since Bush got into office to begin with, ya know.

[madfloridian]

41. The media has not changed much since 2003 and 2004 when they took us to war

and silenced the voices who spoke up. Like Phil Donahue for starters. He was gone just snapping your finger. When Aaron Brown, though pretty conservative, tried to question things...he was soon gone as well.

Dan Rather. Plus the lady from MSNBC who was fired for saying too much against the war. Can't think of her name now.

[dansolo]

40. Split them halfway

Apportion them according to the primary, but only count them as a half, and don't give the superdelegates a vote. If that is offered, Obama should accept.

[madfloridian]

42. Sharing something I read at another site. .. kind of special.

There were many "side" groups that split off from the Dean campaign. Many are still active today. One of them is Blankets for America.

Here is the website.

http://www.blanketsforamerica.com/

Here is a note from the person whom I think founded it. I don't think she will mind that it was shared. From HEP site:

"Well, now I'm euphoric because I got a note from Howard Dean today. Our Blankets for America (Dean Corps) 4th anniversary was 3/24/08. Since Howard's been taking a lot of heat I wrote a letter for the group telling him that we'd made 1,515 blankets all because of him. We wanted him to know we support him and his words and work and that we continue to work in our communities because he inspired us.

So he wrote back with lots of kind words and said he appreciated our support a lot. I think maybe we accomplished our aim with the letter and gave him a little "warm fuzzy" during a harsh time."

Just thought that was nice.

[sybylla]

46. That is very nice!

Thanks for sharing and for all you do, madfloridian!

[madfloridian]

43. FL superdelegates already getting unpleasant...Wasserman Schultz

http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?rn=3906861&cl=7249026&ch=4226716&src=news

on Anderson Cooper that night.

[blondie58]

44. thanks again,madfloridian

I am so sorry that certain people are reacting in such a way towards you. It is amazing as you are basically just printing the FACTS. I for one, appreciate your truthful and rational points that you post.

[madfloridian]

47. That means a lot.

It really does.

[Iggo]

45. Gawd, what a fucking mess.

We (Dems) should be sweeping into power with the blessing of the people and a HEAVY mandate. But instead we're doing our level best to snatch defeat from the jaws of certain victory.

I think I'm madder than the floridian right now.

[cyclezealot]

49. The Nation is not as upset at the Fla. hassle as the process itself.

the process that drags out the nomination by the two remaining ankle biters for about half a year. The defeat was not caused by Florida, Michigan. But, the blood feud between Hillary and Obama. The Two victors that likely will drag down the whole party. Two victors given to us by the big money that buys their attack ads.

[cyclezealot]

48. heck with it .

I would not bother to go. maybe Georgia would hold the Florida banner. The Bulldogs hate the gators anyway.

[mhoran]

50. Thank you for staying on top of this topic.

Your posts have been very informative and valuable. Please continue.

[krkaufman]

51. I love the framing of the article, from its first paragraph...

"After months of animus and finger-pointing, Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean offered..."

... as though it was Dean who was angry and finger-pointing, rather than the members of the Florida Democratic leadership.


Thanks for the continued followup, madfloridian.

[madfloridian]

53. I am amazed at the way some of the journalists use words...

Did he want us to think Dean was causing the animus? Or was it just a misuse of word order? Hard to tell.

[krkaufman]

54. I wondered that, too, especially after seeing your later post Re: Debbie W-S.

I initially thought it was sloppy reporting, but after seeing your DWS post regarding her framing of Dean as the instigator of conflict, saying he was now "less combative."

Similar to the Tim Padgett articles you'd linked (whose framing was so egregious I've remembered his name), this reporter, Jonathan Weisman (WP), seems to assume the framing of the Florida Democratic leaders. I think a big part of the problem is that Dean is trying to remain non-partisan, and isn't seeking-out media to spin things his way, while every damn Florida Democrat involved in creating this mess is smearing Dean and the DNC at every opportunity they can find -- or create.

[madfloridian]

55. Did you see this post and the links in it?

Debbie is at it again. They do not plan to stop. Be sure to follow the first link in this post to a post by WesDem of a meeting where the Clinton donors put Dean on the spot and he stood up to them.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1967

Also here is a video from ABC of Sam Donaldson and others discussing how Dean is being pressured unfairly. I think it is pretty good discussion.

http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?rn=3906861&cl=7242824&ch=4226716&src=news

They are going to continue this all the way to convention unless the SDs get their fill and step in. Dean doesn't have the authority to do much more than offer to seat them and give them rooms.

[krkaufman]

56. No, hadn't read those, yet. Thanks, mf.

Lordy, I'm really growing to loathe these power-mad people. It's no wonder that Florida's election have been so problematic over the years; the Democratic leaders appear not to have any rooting in fair play and basic decency.

[madfloridian]

57. Seated, not counted.

Except in Hillary's own mind.

[dansolo]

58. Why don't they just split the difference in FL?

Incur the original penalty (50% reduction of delegates and no superdelegates) and use the result from the primary to apportion the delegates.

Obama would like a 50/50 split, and Hillary wants the original results to stand. This method would basically split the difference. This the only way, and it is 100% consistent with the rules. Even Bill Nelson suggested something like this.