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There is good reason to "hate" Hillary Clinton

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mudesi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 06:29 PM
Original message
There is good reason to "hate" Hillary Clinton
Edited on Thu Apr-03-08 06:59 PM by lynyrd_skynyrd
Give me some things Obama has said or done that even remotely compares to Clinton's actions in the last several weeks. You may not like him for various reasons, you may not agree with his policies, he may be playing dirty politics in much the same way as any politician does, but he has not

- Praised John McCain in order to tear Clinton down
- Accused Clinton of plagiarism (even though she is as guilty as he)
- Race baited
- Said the words "shame on you, Hillary Clinton!"
- Dismissed the states he has lost as irrelevant
- Openly mocked her
- Fabricated a lie out of whole cloth
- Actively attempted to help McCain win the election so that he may run again in 2012.

Hillary Clinton is not a Democrat. She never was. We have all always known this because she is not just a member of the DLC, but one of it's major players.

The DLC has never been about advancing liberalism. It has always been about maintaining the corporate power structure in Washington. It is a conservative front group whose purpose is to keep the status quo.

This primary campaign has exposed what we have always known about Clinton, as well as every "Democrat" in the DLC. Hillary Clinton is a DINO just like Lieberman.

So if anybody here is astounded at how we liberals can possibly "hate a Democrat", just click on some of the video links I included above.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
1. pssst... you mean Mocked him or us, no?
She makes me cry.....I can barely stand to look at her or hear her speak at this point.
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jconner27 Donating Member (356 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Not a fan of your guy either cat
I'm thinking of a word that best describes Barack.. let me check oh yeah I got it now phoney. And his supporters make Junior Bush pack of supporters look like rational thinking human beings.
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LukeSkywalker Donating Member (36 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #7
52. Phoney? Let's talk phoney....
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ExPatLeftist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 04:41 AM
Response to Reply #7
64. The OP said, "Give me some things Obama has said or done..."
Edited on Fri Apr-04-08 04:43 AM by ExPatLeftist
"...that even remotely compares to Clinton's actions in the last several weeks", not "what is a word you can use to describe Obama and then fail completely to back up." Giving reasons for things and simply stating opinion, for example "because he is icky" are two very different things. I have seen many Clinton supporters replying like this, by restating their opinion instead of giving reasons and backing them up. Please tell us why, specifically. Unless you are just going by "gut feeling" and irrational "hate", which seem to be the same things of which so many Obama supporters are unjustly accused...
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Pappy Donating Member (113 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #7
90. Barack is not a phoney, he's the real deal and is going to bring about change
Hillary is so yesterday's news and you know she sucks up to every corporate pig she can, because she wants money and power and thats all she cares about. Barack is so much above all that. He doesn't even take corporate money and thats why they are so scared of him. Obama is going to bring about the change we need in Washington. Go Obama!
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durrrty libby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #90
126. The Audacity of Hype. Sad how people fall for such an obvious fraud
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damonm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #126
128. Your meme-fu skills are WEAK, grasshopper...
unless you can demonstrate (with factual, verifiable example) how Obama is a fraud.
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quantass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #128
148. .
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PoliticalAmazon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #126
141. Speaking of fraud, did you see Hillary's boo-hoo performance today? n/t
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FightTheRight89 Donating Member (307 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #7
94. HA! HA!
Where do you get phony from, other than a silly gut feeling?
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BryMan Donating Member (76 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #7
120. Phoney....
Yeah, come to think of it that's what was making me feel that sick feeling in my stomach everytime I've watched HC speak. Thanks for clarifying it for me. :think:
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #7
138. Obama is the most genuine human being to run for Pres in the last 25 yrs.
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durrrty libby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #138
146. lol
:rofl:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #1
135. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
LakeSamish706 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
2. I couldn't have stated my case any better, Great post. n/t
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jconner27 Donating Member (356 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #2
22. Proving Obama supporters have nothing
Alright let's examine this further Obama and Clinton records match on every important issues but according to his supporters they're light years apart. According to Barack Obama he's bringing an new era of politics yet anytime his supporters talk about either Clinton you guys sound like those foaming at the mouth, knuckle dragging, crap throwing cave dwelling right wing republican from the 1990s. And it's one thing if Barack Obama was sitting on the threshold of winning the nomination and Hillary Clinton had like 300 delegate votes he doesn't have a clear cut majority and things could change from now to Denver. And the case I made the case you guys have no logical reason to support Obama because you need to use right wing talking points to use against Clinton. I mean if he's that good as you claim that he is, why you need these things? A kid can explain why he prefer one video game console over the other but Obama supporters can't explain why they support Obama over Clinton. Because you can't say record because they match, you can't say ties to corporation because both have ties to corporations and you can't say he takes stands he does not a stand on a issue.
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #22
38. I don't recall him crying when he was behind and he hasn't to my
knowledge fabricated a war record. He hasn't claimed to facilate the end of wars. In short, he seems pretty routed in reality. I support Obama because I truly believe he won't embarrass me. He won't turn up with someone else's wife in the middle of his term. He will always assume when he speaks to me and others that we have a brain and can understand things. He says 'we' and 'us' instead of 'I, me, my'. Your argument, jconner27, is full of crap. Frankly, you should tell me why I should change my mind that doesn't include demeaning your gal. I don't recall my guy ever trying to prevent the impeachment of a shit president, working to prevent unions from organizing the poverty-stricken people of the corporation he works for, nor taking dirty blood money from dictators for favors. He has been open about answering his critics face to face and he has all his personal records up for inspection. The day that Hillary is that open, when i can see the library donor list, when she can tell me WHY she is supposed to be so more capable when her record of statemen moments is sipping tea and faking gun battles makes her no more qualified than my dog. Until then, all you can do is insult people and make your candidate look worse in the doing of it.

If you tell me that half of this is Bill and not Hill, so what. You get both with this election and I am frankly tired of them both. They bore me. They make me sorry I lost friends and family defending them. They so weren't worth it.
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jconner27 Donating Member (356 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. When Obama supporters sound like Republicans
I'm not in the business to change cult followers minds, if you want Mr. What's behind door number two go right ahead. You attack Clinton for things that are best petty your guy has taken route that hasn't been seen since Bush in 2000 he claims he's going to bring an new era of politics first he allow his flunkies to push a story that Bill Clinton was racist when they knew what he meant when he said fairy tale, they leak a photo op between Bill Clinton and Rev. Wright to the New York Times and what did it proves a 20 second meeting vs a 20 year relationship. That's new era of politics right there and his supporters I swear half you bastards sound like Republicans from the 1990s again if Obama is everything you claimed he is then you see post that highlight Obama accomplishments and things he has done in the senate then repeat already debunked scandals about the Clinton white house but you can't do it because if you talk about Obama stint in the senate you'll be hard press to brag about anything.

As for degrading my own candidate how? I mention her voting record and his voting record match because you Obama supporters are saying things about her and him that's not true.. If you're going to put Hillary on the firing squad for Iraq I hope you got something left for your guy because he has voted to fund the war, and if you're going to attack her for "praising" McCain then I hope you have the same outrage for your guy when he says he and Bush was on the same page regarding Iraq. If you're going to go after Hillary for taking corporate dollars I hope you do the same for your guy because I doubt all of that 40 million he raised came from average supporters. And if you're going after her for not demanding impeachment of Bush I didn't see Obama asking for impeachment hearings better yet I didn't see him protest or hold a fill buster any of the war funding. And releasing records I guess when you haven't done much you have nothing to worry about, as for her records the best you ass clowns found was her first lady schedule.

He hasn't answer any critics don't give me that speech because that was merely damage control because he thought Wright was going to cause him some damage. Again if you and it seemingly half of the Democratic party wants to follow a fast path of losing another election go right ahead don't try to convince me otherwise. Obama is the person the Republicans want and you sir or lady want to give them what they want.
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cui bono Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #40
43. Read your own posts. You are using RW tactics and talking points.

I swear, every Hillbot on this board is so blind.

I can't fucking stand what she's done to this party. Maybe once the honeymoon period is over you'll see what she's done without the rose colored glasses.

"Don't give me that speech." You mean the one that everybody praised? The one that talked to Americans as if they were adults? The one that a Clinton supporter on this board actually criticised because it didn't have any good sound bites?

Sheesh.



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jconner27 Donating Member (356 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #43
45. You gotta be joking right?
The Rock had it right when he said: Know your role and shut your mouth..

Talking points where are they? Isn't it true he voted to fund the war?
Isn't it true it was his supporters that pushed the story that Bill Clinton was racist due to his fairy tale comment? Isn't it true he hasn't pushed for impeachment either? And for you comment Hillbot are blind is truly funny on so many levels because you guys make Bush supporters look like free thinkers. Again you want to ride the quick train to defeat go ahead don't ask me to ride with ya.
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svpadgham Donating Member (374 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #43
129. Cult Members
I noticed that there are a lot of cult members here. How come everybody that supports one candidate is called a "cult member" by everyone that supports another candidate? There's so much piddly name calling around here, I can't believe that anyone at DU is old enough to vote. When are opposing supporters going to get down to accusing the other candidate of having cooties? I'm sorry about generalizing, but that's how it seems to me. People used to present facts to support their chosen candidate or to give evidence against the other. Now it just has all just broken down to name calling. I have a theory to all the name calling, but I won't get into it because you are all a bunch of cock-sucking, Hillbot, Obamadroid, librul, douchebag, cult member, freeptard, trolls with cooties...Aw, shit...now I'm doing it too. :spank:





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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #43
142. psst! Hillary is the one using right-wing tactics - open your eyes (and ears!)
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 04:14 AM
Response to Reply #40
63. Sound like Republicans?
The ONLY thing you need to know to vote against Hillary:





"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans. I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans, family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."---Paul Wellstone


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greiner3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #40
78. "I'm not in the business to change cult followers minds"
To me, that says it all. How much do you get for professionally trolling here?
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Hamlette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #40
89. no one has to tell me what Clinton meant
I cringed and I had not made up my mind which candidate to support at that time. It was a racist comment. He might not be a racist but he said it and it was offensive.

Over the course of the last 3 months I've seen a side of the Clintons I either had never seen before or didn't remember.

You can support Clinton for a number of reasons, experience for instance, but don't turn a blind eye to how divisive she is.

It's what drove some of us away. Hillary's problem is that she ran a campaign that played right into Obama's hand. Obama said: there is too much BS negative politics of personal destruction, bickering about unimportant stuff which prevents us from getting to the real issues.

You'd have to be blind not to see Hillary has become exhibit 1 of what Obama (and many of us) thinks is wrong with politics.
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BornBlue Donating Member (278 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #40
105. OK, where to start?
Rev. Wright, seems a good enough place. It is true that he said some very disturbing things. I will not say that he didn't, but I do not believe that for 20 years he repeated the same sentiment day in and day out. To say that he did is dishonest. The photo of Bill and Rev. Wright that was leaked to the press is fair game. Vetting Right? Honestly, I feel the photo of Hillary sitting next to their invited guest Rev. Wright at the prayer breakfast is far more telling of the type of people they may be. Since they had a relationship with the Rev., all be it casual, they purposely stayed out of the scandal because they didn't want to offend either side.
To touch on his non-existent Senate record, please see this link-Maybe this will clear things up for you.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/2/21/164117/783/290/461422
On to war funding. I am and have been against the war in Iraq since the beginning, but if I were in the Senate I would vote to fund it as well. I am not so selfish that I would happily leave troops in harms way with out support. You know what, that support costs money. Why do you want to punish the men and women overseas because of our administrations lack of fore-sight? They are in harms way, and the government put them there. We have a responsibility to provide for them the materials they need to survive so far from home and in such a dangerous situation. As a citizen of this great country I am embarrassed by they way we "thank" our troops for their service. This issue is very close to home for me, as my father is a Vietnam vet, now receiving disability from the government for injuries he sustained almost 40 years ago. The level of care he has received is laughable, and Obama has stated that he wants to take care of the men and women who fought for this country, what is wrong with that? Don't you know a single person fighting overseas that you care about, and want to make sure that they have the chance of returning home safely? My nephew will be leaving next month for his 4th tour overseas, and I for one and happy that the elected leaders have voted to fund them.
You erupt over White House scandals that has repeatedly been refuted, yet you have no problem re-spewing anti-Obama rhetoric that has also been refuted. The Bush-Obama on the same page has been proven an over-generalization made by Hillary herself. Hillary has portrayed herself in every way imaginable to figure out what the people want so we are left wondering who she really is. Obama has remained pretty constant through this process and should be praised for this. As a new-comer he has done his best to excite the people, and he has succeeded.
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damonm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #40
131. As with many (though not all) Clinton supporters, you do not let facts confuse you...
Clinton's outright fabrications are FAR from petty.

Moreover, their voting records are NOT identical - Clinton voted FOR the 2005 bankruptcy bill (WITH Bush, BTW), Obama against. So much for Clinton being for the little guy - she made it HARDER for average Joes to fight the credit card companies' predatory practices. Then she votes AGAINST the cluster munitions ban (AGAIN siding with Bush), while Obama voted for this amendment which would have banned the use of cluster munitions in civilian areas.
So in 3 major instances (including the IWR), Clinton sided WITH Bush, and AGAINST the American peoples' best interest. And now she wants to be President? Don't think so.

And as to "Obama is the person the Republicans want", get a clue. The Hannitites (people on Sean Hannity's forum) have been drooling over the chance to run against Clinton for over a year, while Obama has them pissing their pants - they know damn good & well they can't beat him.
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cameozalaznick Donating Member (624 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #40
134. Actually, I believe the Republicans want Hillary...
Or have you not heard that Rush Limbaugh is her biggest cheerleader.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #38
110. So your answer is: YOU'RE BORED.
Fabulous reason to make a decision. You haven't been sufficiently entertained by the first viable woman candidate for the president of the United States.

What a shameful, sad, vacuous admission.

But you go for it.

And don't forget to congratulate yourself for not being a racist.
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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #110
123. What is sad and vacuous is focusing on three short words in that post ...
... and pretending that was all they said.

And who gives a crap if HC is "the first viable woman candidate for POTUS"? What does that have to do with anything?
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #123
130. thank you, krkaufman. My family has suffered enough from the
clintons when they go on a tirade. My nephew was in Bosnia when she was pretending to be under fire. He was. I will never forget the year of hell that was. As for Hillary, my brother's last conversation with my mother was an argument over her, my mother defending her. My brother's last memory of his mother was a stupid fucking argument. I know my mom if she could see things now would not have had that with my brother. We've had enough of idiot tools. When a viable woman comes along, she will get my scrutiny. I found that poster to be as insufferable and mean as too many on her side of the fence. I wanted Edwards but I got over it. I suspect some of these tools will too. Or not. I don't care anymore. For you, krkaufman: :hug:
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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #130
140. Yours is a much bumpier road than mine relative to the Clintons.
Fortunately, we have been blessed to be free of any Right Wingers in the immediate family, at least any of the rabid variety, and so hadn't had to do much Clinton defending. The extent of our Clinton discussions usually centered around the kids (me & siblings) contesting that the Clintons weren't as bad as my mom, a left-of-center liberal Democrat, perceived, when the subject occasionally came up. Suffice it to say that my meals, of late, have become monotonous, what with all the crow I've been obliged to eat.
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #140
143. my mom, dad and I were and are far left libs. my brothers are not
but one can be reasoned with. my other had a fight with Mom and never had another conversation. she died before he could. we were the fiercest defenders of them both and now this? It sucks. Your mom sounds like a good soul. Its nice to have a family that is simpatico. Ketchup is nice on crow. ;) I find it helps with the taste myself. :)
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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #143
145. I feel like Bubba on Forrest Gump...
... imagining all the different dishes I can make in the crow theme. Crow pot pie, crow-ka-bobs, ...
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #110
127. hey, dipshit. I don't want Hillary for President because she says nothing
Edited on Fri Apr-04-08 04:26 PM by roguevalley
that I want to hear. She won't apologize for her war vote- something even Chuck Hagel did- and she has nothing new that will make things better. Don't even THINK that she will go after the bad guys who have broken the world. She's a part of that. She sees nothing about exploiting troops for her own benefit -Bosnia- and has no remorse nor has she the ability to apologize for that.

She's part of the old world that got us here. She has too many corporate friends and right wing religisos expecting pay offs for their support. She also is an arrogant fool to believe that the contest would be over by Super Tuesday. She is a fucking idiot. I will vote for the 'first viable woman candidate' for president when she shows up. I will not vote for a lying tool. If that pisses you off then fine. Vacuous? Fuck you.

as for the last line, I think it tells the whole story about you. consider yourself ignored.

EDIT: this is for aquart
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cui bono Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #22
42. What are you talking about? Clinton used the Republican playbook running
her negative campaign into the ground.

I'm sure Obama supporters (of which I'm not one) would love to talk about the issues and what each candidate has to offer but they don't have that much time when they are constantly having to fend off Rovian attacks from Clinton and her gang.

I haven't seen any Clinton supporters on this board say anything in support of Clinton, only against Obama supporters. And the fact that they defend her slimy actions in the campaign says a lot.

As the OP said, Obama has not used anything close to the vile crap Clinton has used.

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swishyfeet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #42
46. x2
Were it not for the kitchen sink (by a fellow dem) maybe we could hear a little more about issues. As it is, he's doing a fine job winning against it, which SHOULD end this crap about his glass jaw or being unable to compete against sleazy repubs.

It won't of course.

The goal posts, and selfish attacks against the presumptive nominee will keep on truckin...
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jconner27 Donating Member (356 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #42
53. Don't make things up dude it's not nice.
Boy you are a odd sort,

It's clear you couldn't pick out one thing that was consider a "RNC" talking point on my part so thanks for swinging and missing on that one. Second from the post and those call in progressive talk shows they can't even name one thing Hillary or her team has done against Obama it's mostly "I hate what she's doing" what she's doing? Uh um I just hate what she's doing. The only sin Hillary has commented in their eyes is not giving in to their chosen one.

And are you kidding me Cui most of the so called pro Obama post they're basically ripping things off his web site and I ask Obama supporters why they support him over Hillary and they can't do it. They either give me something very vague or they pretty much say he's not Hillary. Yeah that's productive reasoning isn't it he's not Hillary that's a legit reason right? And it says something more about you when you lie and you trying to call me out on something you guys do.
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madwivoter Donating Member (454 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #53
100. Very simple reason why I support Obama over Clinton:
-When Obama speaks, he speaks to us like we are adults and it appears to me that he says what he means.

-When Clinton speaks, she speaks with (in my opinion) an extremely condescending tone and I always feel like she's not saying what she means.

President Clinton has been displaying the same behavior as Hillary Clinton, finger pointing (literally) "It's all up to you..." (I don't disagree with what he says, I don't like how he says it).

It's about the tone.

On the subject of "hate", I think there are a lot of people around here who use the word very loosely and really don't mean it (I hope). I don't "hate" Hillary Clinton, I admit I do feel a bit sorry for her at times. There are a lot of trolls on DU lately and they have a pretty easy job. :shrug:
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quickesst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 05:16 AM
Response to Reply #22
65. "Obama supporters can't explain why they support Obama over Clinton. "
Maybe this will help. Thanks.
quickesst

<>

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lumpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #65
133. That guy in the cartoon has to be an Obama supporter.
Reminds me of the Obama whiners that post on this forum.
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IowaGirl Donating Member (539 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #22
80. Prehaps this link to an article on cult indoctrination will help you understand this phenomenon.....
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leeroysphitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #22
81. I can explain it all in two words: The War. She voted for it He didn't. PERIOD.
I know all the usual replies to this argument. Blah blah blah.

I will not, ever again, be voting for ANYONE that voted the Iraq war into existence. No second chances, no excuses, no explanations. I don't care what the candidate did before or has done since the vote if he or she voted to approve the IWR I don't vote for them.

If you call that nothing then so be it.
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Harry Monroe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #81
95. For me, it's a bit more nuanced than that
I was an Edwards supporter before he dropped out. He and Hillary had both voted for the war, but Edwards had the courage and decency to apologize for his vote and go on record to say that it was a mistake. Hillary has never done that, and probably never will. To me, that speaks volumes about her. I admired John Edwards for his honesty, courage and decency to speak to Americans as adults, something sorely lacking now in politics. Obama also speaks to us as adults and speaks honestly and openly. And he has been against this war from day one. Clinton will never admit that her vote was a mistake; she is a political opportunist and panderer. To me she seems to simply be a Republican in Democratic clothing.
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shagsak Donating Member (328 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #22
102. You need to do more research
This is one OP of many that state in detail why so many Obama supporters are fed up with C. Ill concede that they don't differ too much on issue stances, however if you watched the two debate, C just doesn't look presidential. She looks hungry, angry, desperate. Obama doesn't and has never appeared desperate. He has never held anything back and tried to cover things up to make himself look more appealing. He is in your face and tells you like it is. Want him to answer some questions about his pastor? You get the ugly truth whether you really want it or not. You want to see his financial records? Would you like that in Excel or Word? Any more questions? Ask him. I haven't seen him dodge one yet.

Another thing about Obama supporters that you fail to see (even though the passion should be obvious) is that he truly inspires us. He makes us want to help the change happen. And right now we need a good leader we can get behind.
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jjr5 Donating Member (317 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #22
113. Okay . . .
Edited on Fri Apr-04-08 12:14 PM by jjr5
The sad fact is that you don't need Right Wing propaganda to criticize the Clinton campaign, you just need a moral compass. For goodness sake, she lied three times about Bosnia during speaking engagements - 3 times. That isn't "misspeaking," that's fabrication. She also won't apologize for her Iraq War Vote. Targeting Obama on Reverand Wright is just another ball game altogether, and the way she has squandered money in her campaign is disgusting. I mean, why is she in debt? What did the money go to? When you're supporters are giving you money you should take care of it and make sure that it is used wisely, enought to take you to where you need to go. You shouldn't be in the hole and asking your supporters for more money. What Right Wing propaganda? And yes, I am foaming at the mouth because I am angry about seeing "politics as usual."
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
3. He certainly DID race-bait
By objecting to the Hillary campaign's overt racism, he blatantly and intentionally brought race into the campaign!!

(Just anticipating the first Hill supporter response)
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Cant trust em Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. If you can complete other's arguments before they make them
is an indicator that too much time is spent on DU. I'm right there with you.

:toast:
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #5
56. prolepsis
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dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #3
28. If you steal their thunder...
what else do they have? :shrug:
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shagsak Donating Member (328 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #3
111. I don't know if I agree with that
Race baiting implies that he verbally attacked a race of people. I never felt attacked by him, please explain.
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NorthCarolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #3
112. The way I see it, it was the Media that brought race into the campaign
and has worked hard to keep it there. Dutifully painting the idea that the Democratic Party is the party of racism in oder to mellow the harsh, but very real, conception of racism in the Republican Party. The media is playing Democrats like a fiddle, and reading the myriad of posts on DU insisting "it was Hillary and Ferraro that injected race into the campaign" and conversely "no, it was Obama that was race baiting". Anyone think that there was no plan by the Republicans to use their media outlets to purposefully create discord and infighting amongst Democrats? Anyone think it funny that the media covers the Democratic discord when discussing the Democratic campaign, while conversely showing McCain on his mission to the Middle East looking all presidential and ready to take over on day 1? This entire campaign is scripted, and when the Diebold results come in for McCain in complete odds with exit polling the media will immediately pin it on discord amongst the Democrats that caused this "narrow win" by McCain. Get real folks, the script they're using is so painfully obvious that it's truly pathetic that more don't see it.
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Cant trust em Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
4. The "shame on you, Barack Obama" thing was more corny than negative
It was just lame. Politics aside, Hillary Clinton is a dork.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #4
83. It was lame - but it was intended to be heard on an endless loop
that week - and it was.
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Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #4
91. Funny you should say, "dork...."
That is so how I see her. She is just a whiney, clueless wanna-be. Phony as all hell, too.

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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
6. No there isn't
hate for dems shouldn't be allowed here. I can respect people disagreeing with her, but the hatred is just irrational.
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Agreed... while I prefer Obama
I'll vote for Hillary. May not like how she ran her campaign but damn man, my wallet and my conscience can't take 4 more years of neo-con rule.
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #6
23. is hatred always irrational?
What about hatred for Bush or Cheney?
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eggman61 Donating Member (10 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #23
109. hatred blinds
It's not irrational to hate people who do evil, it's just counterproductive. When you hate, you lose perspective, and that makes you unpersuasive. You see evil motives even where there aren't any. You start opposing good things because they are for them, favoring bad things that they are against--in other words, you give them control over you. Hate the things they do, hold them accountable, oppose them at every step, but don't hate them.
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Th1onein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #6
29. You hit the nail on the head!
Why join the bash the Democrat party? ANYBODY BUT MCCAIN!
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #6
54. Do we not hate Zell Miller? Joe Lieberman? Those are Dems too... the same caliber of "Dem" too..

Hillary's only interest in the Democractic party is to use it as a vehicle to attain personal power and wealth.

She has no use for the Democratic party or its ideals.


It's just a means to an end for her. Her thirst for power that she believes is her birthright.
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DeadElephant_ORG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
8. Well said. It's a distinction with a difference. n/t
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Upton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
9. Agree completely
she's always been a DINO looking out for #1. She could give a damn what happens to the party, it's all about Hillary.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
11. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
12. "Openly mocked her supporters" is the only thing would add
Excellent post.
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Cali_Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
13. She also asked Obama if he needed a pillow
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
terrell9584 Donating Member (549 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
14. he did race bait
I'll be attacked for saying this, but, it is true. Essentially, on stations in our area that have a predominantly black audience, Obama ran an ad attacking Clinton. Now, the race baiting comes in at the very end. And this never made the national news because it was a radio ad run on certain stations in advance of the Mississippi primary.

However, the race baiting comes in at the end of the ad. The phrase "I am ...... and I approved...." is said not with the speaking voice that you hear on TV, but with an accent that is meant to replicate a Southern black accent.

He didn't get publically called on it for this instance, but he also did the same thing last year when speaking in Selma, and the national media called him on it then. Since the criticism he recieved for that, he has not used this particular accent in speech (For the record, Hillary did the same thing too, and she also got called on it).

It may be parsing, but that ad was constructed in a very deliberate way and it had the exact same intent as the Jesse Jackson comments that Clinton makes. And sadly, it's a smart political strategy in this part of the world, because roughly half of all our campaigns around the race issue explicitly. It gets in there. Our Democratic Lt. Governor is basically in office because he ran one set of ads on primarily black stations and another ad on white stations and you could tell by listening to it why each ad was on the station that it was one. It's just a reality of life in this part of the world

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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. Yeah....well read this......
a post I wrote back on January 9th......which is when it had already started, the Hillary campaign race baiting, I mean: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4014875
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #19
32. here read this---the 4 page memo!---BO race-baits. plain as that.
QUOTE
RUSSERT: In terms of accountability, Senator Obama, Senator Clinton on Sunday told me that the Obama campaign had been pushing this storyline. And, true enough, your press secretary in South Carolina -- four pages of alleged comments made by the Clinton people about the issue of race.
In hindsight, do you regret pushing this story?


OBAMA: Well, not only in hindsight, but going forward. I think that, as Hillary said, our supporters, our staff get overzealous. They start saying things that I would not say. And it is my responsibility to make sure that we’re setting a clear tone in our campaign, and I take that responsibility very seriously, which is why I spoke yesterday and sent a message in case people were not clear that what we want to do is make sure that we focus on the issues.

Now, there are going to be significant issues that we debate, and some serious differences that we have. OBAMA: And I’m sure those will be on display today.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/15/us/polit...PPg1RgmjYp5ZFTw
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DerekJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 02:05 AM
Response to Reply #32
60. The link doesn’t work, can you fix it please
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 06:22 AM
Response to Reply #32
72. When copying and pasting a post from somewhere else, you need to do the link separately or it breaks
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LaurenG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
16. I don't hate her
I don't appreciate her "tricksy" ways or her extraordinary ability to so easily tell such tall tales. I don't appreciate the way she wounds her opponents by hitting below the belt and then when someone fights back they are labeled sexist. I don't believe she has our best interests at heart. As far as I can tell we're just those who vote for her so she can take the throne. Then she can go on about the business of taking over the world; with her corporate interests owning all the food and oil.

My "spidey" sense doesn't think she'll be a good fit, and I think we are ready for someone much more in line with a positive, strategic vision for the country which doesn't include the Clinton's. I'm ready to close the door on the past.

I don't hate her though.

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TZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
17. There are far better reasons to hate Bush
and its attitudes like the OP that does Bush-McCain's work for them.
Yay 4 more years of Repukes!!:sarcasm:
BTW..I don't like Hillary, support Obama but your attitude and the irrational hatred here STINKS.
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cbayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
18. My radically left democratic parents taught me
that hate is a destructive force wielded by those with no other tools. I often wonder where I am when I enter DU. The amount of overt hate on this board goes against pretty much everything I believe in.
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madmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 07:42 AM
Response to Reply #18
75. Thank You for this, cbayer, I agree 100%. This is NOT the democratic way!
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tigereye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #18
117. good post cb!
Edited on Fri Apr-04-08 01:00 PM by tigereye
:thumbsup:
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 07:06 PM
Response to Original message
20. DLCers like Clinton ARE liberal on social issues
and they perhaps sincerely believe that their positions are more likely to win elections. We need them in our caucus to maintain majorities and we need their voters. The thing that is revealing is what happens when they lose in a primary. If you look at what Lieberman did and what Hillary seems to be doing - they put their own ambition ahead of the will of the Democratic grass roots. Although Kennedy seemed to do the same thing in 1980.

I guess you might add, "lobbied her pledged delegates to switch" too, but the fact of the matter is that many of us who hate her, like myself, hated her long before she did any of those things. So we were probably quite ready to believe the worst about whatever was reported about her.

Earlier reasons -

IWR vote
meeting with Code Pink and NOW before the war
carpet-bagging in New York
Kyl-Lieberman

centrist Bill Clinton Administration
NAFTA
welfare reform
fairness doctrine
de-regulation - telecoms, banking
"era of big government is over"
tax cut rhetoric and tax cuts for the wealthy
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #20
92. That's basically "code" for saying the appeal on emotional issues to screw us for corporations...
... and other special interests who are their REAL constituency.

They are just using the social issues to get votes to go the way of a candidate that will still be beholden to corporate special interests, even though its against these emotional voters' interests to support their being raped economically by basically both parties when the DLC is empowered in the Democratic Party.
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NorthCarolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #92
121. You're exactly right
The DLC has moved the party far to the right of the party's base to a position that is in direct conflict with the best interests of their base. They claim they need this rightist position to make Dems electable and use the Clinton administration as their case in point. In reality though, the fact that the corporate friendly conservative DLC has held sway over the party is why we as voters are presented with voting options that offer very little policy distinction. Cases in point, ending the Iraq war is, contrary to what the media conveys, of primary concern with most Democratic voters and yet not one of the candidates remaining for us to vote for is an ardent anti-war candidate. Another is health care where the Democratic voter base overwhelmingly supports Single Payer Universal Health Care and yet our only available choices offer Universal Health INSURANCE on the Democratic side and status quo on the Republican side. We had a REAL Democrat running, Kucinich, and even though he was everywhere we wanted to be on the issues, we succumbed to the media ridicule and even parroted it on DU boards against Kucinich and his supporters because we have become so dependent upon the media telling us what to think. For my money, I hope that Democrats will research their choices in the remaining primaries and if a Democratic Candidate has ties to the DLC, VOTE THEM OUT.
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 07:07 PM
Response to Original message
21. you guys are so blind, it is actually getting funny as I just shake my
Edited on Thu Apr-03-08 07:08 PM by Evergreen Emerald
head in amazement at the short memories and pretzels you must have to twist yourself into just to write a distorted thread like this.
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #21
27. yet this is the best you can do for refutation?
Short memories? Did the same thing happen in 2004? Did Bill do so much good in the 1990s that we are required to over-look everything in this campaign? Would you please explain the 50 ways?
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Life Long Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 07:11 PM
Response to Original message
24. The only thing that seems to make sense in why she is still in this is
that she is in it so she can raise the funds to pay off all her debt to the vendors at this point.
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Blarch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
25. You forgot this...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/14/AR2007081401722.html

Clinton's campaign manager, Patti Solis Doyle, seems to agree with that assessment, having effectively vowed to run her operation much as Rove did his two successful national campaigns. "She expresses admiration for the way George W. Bush's campaign team controlled its message, and, given her druthers, would run this race no differently.... Bill Clinton pulled Rove aside at the dedication of the William J. Clinton Presidential Library in Arkansas. "Hey, you did a marvelous job, it was just marvelous what you did," Clinton told Rove, according to the book "The Way to Win: Taking the White House in 2008," by John F. Harris and Mark Halperin. "I want to get you down to the library. I want to talk politics with you. You just did an incredible job, and I'd like to really get together with you and I think we could have a great conversation."


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NM Independent Donating Member (794 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #25
76. I had no clue about that...
:wtf:

:puke:

:freak:

:puke:

:freak:
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Irishonly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #25
115. I think it proves
that democrats are not sheeple like republicans. We don't fall into nice, neat places like the republicans. We yell, holler and scream when we see something we don't like. It doesn't matter if it is local, state, or federal. Rovian politics backfire.

I try not to hate but I can intensely dislike.
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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
26. Except half of that is wrong.
Obama lifted word-for-word entire passages out of Deval Patrick's speeches without attribution. It isn't about whether you have permission, it is about whether you attribute. Any person who has ever written a paper before knows this. A slogan here or there, or a general idea is very different than multiple word-for-word passages.

Obama was the one that -started- the race baiting, after Clinton made a valid historical point about MLK and LBJ. His campaign sent a 4 page memo out to the news media about what an affront that was. That was what escalated everything.

She didn't openly mock him -- she mocked his view that the Republicans would change their ways as soon as Obama would get elected. And good for her -- Obama either knows that's not true or is living in a different world. People with stupid ideas deserve to be mocked. Even Obama thought it was funny (see the following debate).

Actively attempted to help McCain win the election so that he may run again in 2012? Right.


And I notice you don't have "sued all opponents off the ballot for an IL legislature seat," or "took credit for bills others spent years on in the IL Senate." Because those are things Obama has done. They don't fit your narrative.


Face it -- people on this board just look for excuses to hate Hillary. Not because of any one thing she has done during this campaign, but because she isn't as liberal as people would like.
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #26
33. aha, but isn't that enough of a reason right there
"she isn't as liberal as people would like"

I would add, she isn't as liberal as she pretends to be.


And "entire passages"? I never heard of more than 3 lines. Was it more than that, or are you calling 3 lines "entire passages"? Hillary's statement about Martin Luther King was just a stupid thing to say. By itself it was bound to cause resentment in the black community and Obama would be stupid not to reject and denounce it. The four page memo was discovered by the media, not sent to the media.

As a person who tried to run against Hillary, I would point out it was not necessary for her to sue people off the ballot, because she did the same thing with her money and fame. No New York politician had the guts or foolish optimism to run against her, and she did try to stop Tasini from doing so, didn't she? And she takes credit for SCHIP too, something that Kennedy and Hatch worked on.
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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. If it's because she isn't liberal enough, fine.
Edited on Thu Apr-03-08 07:49 PM by zlt234
I just wish everyone would be honest, and not blow everything out of proportion solely because of something indirect.

I still don't see why there is so much hatred though just because she isn't liberal enough. She takes positions that are more popular so that she can get elected. So does everyone else (who actually ever gets elected). That is cause for strong disagreement, but that doesn't make her any less of a democrat. If our entire party only accepted and nominated Kucinich, we would be lucky to break 20%, meaning that we don't get any steps in the right direction, ever.

I referred to those 3 lines as one passage, and there was another passage too. I'll try to find it. If anyone in college copied that much, they would fail the course at the very least.

As far as the 4 page memo was concerned, the point was that it was race baiting. What Hillary said was not race baiting. It might have been stupid, but it wasn't race baiting. The 4 page memo was what escalated it -- regardless of what might have happened had the memo not surfaced.

And is it really Hillary's fault that she has money and fame? That is so completely different than actually hiring an election lawyer to challenge all the other candidates so he could run unopposed. This is the kind of stuff that would get 20 threads on GDP if Hillary did it.

And she rightfully takes credit for SCHIP since she worked on it a lot. She never said she was the only person that ever worked on it -- of course that would be false, since legislators are the ones that pass legislation (and she wasn't a legislator at the time). Even Ted Kennedy praised Hillary's leadership on SCHIP at the time. With Obama, he actually "took over" and sponsored much of the IL democratic party platform that other people worked on for the previous 6 years and didn't get credit for. Again, the difference is stark.

http://www.houstonpress.com/2008-02-28/news/barack-obama-screamed-at-me/

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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 03:09 AM
Response to Reply #34
62. of course real liberals cannot get elected
which must be why conservatives like Bush and Clinton try so hard to pretend to be liberal, to pretend that they care about ordinary people.

Some positions may be more popular with the ignorant masses, but often that is because the masses are fed mountains of misinformation by groups with vested interests in duping them. Those of us who are fighting corporate cupidity and insidiousness tend to have a fair amount of hostility towards corporate shills and enablers.

That's why there is so much hostility, because she is one of the enemy who tries to sell herself as a friend.

Also you are wrong about college. I had at least one student that I remember very well did quite a bit of copying. Required to write a book review, he quoted from the book without using quotation marks or citing page numbers. He definitely got an F on that paper but did not flunk the class. I am probably too much of a softie. Tragically though, he died that summer in a car accident. The newspaper was full of friends saying what a great guy he was in superlative terms, and I could not help thinking "come on, he's not all that, he did plagiarize on that book review." Probably not even a story I should tell anonymously, since they are unworthy thoughts about a young man who died much too young. But he had kinda sullied himself in my eyes. Not beyond repair, but not to be discounted or swept over either.

That, however, is school work. Politicians often give speeches which were written by other people and it is rare for them to cite their speech-writer.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #26
137. 'Scuse me, but that's bullshit.
"Obama lifted word-for-word entire passages out of Deval Patrick's speeches without attribution. It isn't about whether you have permission, it is about whether you attribute."

That's completely untrue. We're not talking about research scientists here, we're talking about a couple of writers, one of whom said "Hey, here's some of my stuff. Feel free if you can get any use out of it." I'm a writer, and I can tell you that that's perfectly acceptable among peers and collaborators.

"Obama was the one that -started- the race baiting,"

Bullshit. Apparently in your world Obama forced Bill Clinton to compare him to Jesse Jackson, and he forced the Clinton co-chair to spread the debunked muslim smear, and he forced Hillary Clinton to say that LBJ was responsible for civil rights and not the civil rights movement. That statement was an attack on the idea of inspiration and popular movements--nothing less.

"She didn't openly mock him -- she mocked his view that the Republicans would change their ways as soon as Obama would get elected."

No, she mocked the idea that we could change people's minds, or the state of politics in this country. Clinton lives in the old politics world where it's just about motivating your base, trying to win over one tiny fragment of swing voters, and then screaming louder than the other side. That's a losing proposition for us.

"Actively attempted to help McCain win the election so that he may run again in 2012? Right."

That's what an endorsement IS, chuckles. Why do you think she's still trying to kneecap Obama even when she's got no hope of winning the nomination? It's "You'll nominate me or you'll have no Democrat."
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
30. There is a DAMN GOOD reason to HATE OBAMA
sounds prettey freeperish eh?


and very ugly
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. I assume he's using "hate" ironically
As in anytime anyone criticizes Hillary they're accused of spreading "HATE".

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RazBerryBeret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
35. I just posted my reasons
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LibraLiz1973 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
36. BULLSHIT he hasn't race baited!!!
:rofl:

That's been his MO for months
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JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 05:39 AM
Response to Reply #36
68. Yeah because you say so.
:eyes:
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quiet.american Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
37. Hell, yeah, dude. nt
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futuro Donating Member (14 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 11:10 PM
Response to Original message
39. I disagree
If we list the top 10 issues in America, we would learn that Hillary agrees with our views in almost all of them.
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JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 05:49 AM
Response to Reply #39
70. I don't think so.
Edited on Fri Apr-04-08 05:56 AM by JTFrog
Economy - She wants Greenspan to come back and finish the economy off.

Iraq/Iran - Duh, she voted for war

Health Care - she's an insurance company's wet dream. mandates for all.

NAFTA/Outsourcing/Jobs - Pushed NAFTA as first lady and can you say TATA?

Environment - She thinks we can regrow mountain tops.

WFRA - She laid the ground work for doctors, pharmacists, therapists and other professionals to bias their treatments according to their religious beliefs.

FEPA - She wants to save my kids from violent video games but voted to send them to the front lines.

BANKRUPTCY Bill - She voted in favor of the bankruptcy bill. If that needs explanation.....

Telecom Silence - She has stayed silent on the spying of Americans because she is beholden to telecom lobbyists.

Patriot Act - She has no problem helping Bush dismantle the constitution.

NCLB - Biggest damn failure to my family out of the list. I have three special ed teenage boys being pushed to drop out of school.


NO SHE DOES NOT AGREE WITH MY VIEWS ON ALMOST ALL OF THEM. She has failed to stand up to Bush on every single issue that has been important to me and my teenage boys. Period.







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Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #39
103. Not in this lifetime....
...:eyes:

Let's start with support for the IWR, OK? A show of hands...how many of us support that?

Then there is NAFTA...anyone on that bandwagon? Hands please!

And...of course, there is the Clinton legacy of DOMA and DADT...you for that one? I'm not.

GMAFB.......
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 11:12 PM
Response to Original message
41. K & R.
n/t.
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
44. K&R!!!!!!
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Tarheel_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 12:20 AM
Response to Original message
47. Agreed....k&r
:kick:
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kerry-is-my-prez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 12:23 AM
Response to Original message
48. "Hillary Clinton is not a Democrat" - oh brother. And 29 recs.... sad.
Shows what a cesspool this place has become.

I don't hate Hillary and I don't HATE McCain or Obama. They're politicians. Bush I hate, Cheney I hate.
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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 12:25 AM
Response to Original message
49. No...there are very few reasons to "hate" anybody...
:)
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ekwhite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 12:36 AM
Response to Original message
50. I can't really recommend this thread
I have just come from reading H2O Man's excellent post, and it has me thinking. I'm not sure that "calling out" Clinton supporters is the right thing to do. It makes us feel good (myself included), but does it really help convince the undecided voters who happen to wander into this place that Obama is the candidate to vote for? Obama is ahead in the popular vote, in pledged delegates, and in fundraising. We can afford to be magnanimous, and it probably helps our candidate more if we act that way.
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GrandmaJones7 Donating Member (118 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 12:37 AM
Response to Original message
51. If you are looking for HATE, try Rev. Wright
a.k.a. Obama's "Minister of HATE."

I am not looking to "understand" Rev. Wright's LONG history of hate-speach. I am looking for an apology!

Folks its not too late, VOTE HILLARY!
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #51
55. Rev Wright isn't running for office.... if he was, you'd have a point...
...
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #51
87. Condemnation prior to Investigation...
is that one of Clinton's strategies? Or is that your own?
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beezlebum Donating Member (927 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #51
97. another jerk calling wright's speech hateful
Edited on Fri Apr-04-08 10:22 AM by beezlebum
get the full context first, and then if you still think it's hateful...:eyes:

the only people who could possibly honestly see that as hate speech are either plain ignorant or are conservative twerps.

and it's tired and it's ALL YA GOT!

kicking and rec'ing OP
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guruoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 01:26 AM
Response to Original message
57. Lather. Rinse. Repeat.
:boring: :boring: :boring: :boring: :boring:
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 01:34 AM
Response to Original message
58. If your whining about Hillary being DLC, then you better whine about Obama being DLC-ish
Obama has DLC written all over him. He just isn't officially a card carrying member because, as always, he wants it both ways.

Ford predicted the DLC will play a major role in the issues debate that unfolds in the 2008 Democratic presidential primary process. The group will not side with any one candidate, he said, even though the organization has close ties to a number of potential nominees, from Vilsack to Sens. Hillary Rodham Clinton (N.Y.) and Joe Biden (Del.) to Gov. Bill Richardson (N.M.). Even Sen. Barack Obama (Ill.) has expressed interest in "finding ways he could work with the DLC," according to Ford. (Ford describes Obama as a "personal friend" and says they talk regularly.)

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/thefix/2007/01/fords_next_move.html

From a year ago:

DailyKos straw poll shows shows Kossacks prefer John Edwards 37% to Obama’s 27% with Wesley Clark a distant third at 14% (the Blogometer has checked these numbers at 6K, 13K ,and 16K votes and there has been no change in the %s). Netroots ambivalence towards Obama’s candidacy seems to stem from two related sources: 1) his perceived centrist/Liebermanesque/DLC rhetoric; 2) and his inability/refusal to lead take the lead on a major progressive issue (especially the war).

http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2007/01/obama_wire_the.html


The DLC doesn’t necessarily pre-select candidates, but they do keep an eye out for possibilities. Obama has been on their watch-list for some time. Now that they see his sex appeal, they may rally behind him. He could be Hillary without the polarizing effect, a real possibility to hold the office.

http://pieceofmind.wordpress.com/2007/01/18/obama-lieberman-and-the-dlc/
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #58
93. That's why I supported Edwards earlier, but with Obama there is doubt, but Clinton NO doubt...
Edited on Fri Apr-04-08 09:55 AM by calipendence
that they're DLC. Obama has actually tried to distance himself from the DLC, whereas Clinton appeaers on the banner of their home page.

For me the campaign of "hope" that Obama has is that he MIGHT be a good candidate and not follow corporate interests, whereas I KNOW that neither McCain nor Clinton are working for our interests vs. corporate interests.

If we had instant runoff voting, I'm damn sure I'd vote for someone like Ralph Nader as msy first choice with the Dem as my alternate. The only thing that's having me vote for one of these two now is to make sure that McCain isn't president.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #58
136. The best you can do is "your candidate is almost as bad as my candidate"?
Even if that were true, which it's not, even remotely, you still lose that argument. Of course you lose my any reasonable metric, so I'm not surprised that trying to kneecap the presumptive nominee is your only remaining tactic.
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 01:55 AM
Response to Original message
59. rationalization and justification
I am no fan of Clinton, but this is getting a little obsessive and out of control.

Are you sure you are trying to promote the Obama candidacy? Doesn't seem like an effective way to go about it.

Who cares if you have good reasons to hate? All haters think they have good reasons.
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democracy1st Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 02:53 AM
Response to Original message
61. K & R
thanks good post
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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 05:39 AM
Response to Original message
66. Here's Hillary's excellent record. Please highlight the "not a Democrat" parts.
Senator Clinton supported the interests of the NARAL Pro-Choice America 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the The Humane Society of the United States 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Trust for Historic Preservation 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People 95 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Education Association 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Wilderness Coalition 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Defenders of Wildlife Action Fund 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the League of Conservation Voters 95 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Children's Defense Fund 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Association of University Women 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Organization for Women 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the U.S. Public Interest Research Group 91 percent in 2006.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the U.S. Public Interest Research Group 100 percent in 2005

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence 100 percent from 1988-2003 (Senate) or 1991-2003 (House).

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Public Health Association 80 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the International Brotherhood of Boilermakers 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Service Employees International Union 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the United Auto Workers 93 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the AFL-CIO 93 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the United Electrical Radio and Machine Workers 84 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Worker 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Federation of State, County & Municipal Employees 88 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Federation of Government Employees 83 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Committee for an Effective Congress 95 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Americans for Democratic Action 100 percent in 2005.

According to the National Journal - Composite Liberal Score's calculations, in 2005, Senator Clinton voted more liberal on economic, defense and foreign policy issues than 80 percent of the Senators.

According to the National Journal - Liberal on Social Policy's calculations, in 2005, Senator Clinton voted more liberal on social policy issues than 83 percent of the Senators.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Alliance for Retired Americans 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Disabled American Veterans 92 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Bread for the World 100 percent in 2003-2004.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the The Partnership for the Homeless 100 percent in 2003-2004.
http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=WNY99268

She was promoting universal coverage before it was cool. Furthermore she helped to create the SCHIP program. And most importantly she was dead on in the debate the other week where she said political will was the most important thing needed to push health care reform through and we know without a doubt she has that.

She has fougt unrelentingly for a woman's right to choose as well as women's rights both domestically and abroad

Create a Strategic Energy Fund - Hillary has proposed a Strategic Energy Fund that would inject $50 billion into research, development and deployment of renewable energy, energy efficiency, clean coal technology, ethanol and other homegrown biofuels. Hillary's proposal would give oil companies a choice: invest in renewable energy or pay into the fund. Hillary's proposal would also eliminate oil company tax breaks and make sure that oil companies pay their fair share for drilling on public lands. Instead of sending billions of dollars to the Middle East for their oil, Hillary's proposal will create a new clean energy industry in America and create tens of thousands of jobs here.

Champion a Market-Based "Cap and Trade" Approach - Hillary supports a market-based, cap and trade approach to reducing carbon emissions and fight global warming. This approach was used successfully to limit sulfur dioxide and reduce levels of acid rain in the 1990s. By capping the amount of emissions in the environment and allowing corporations to buy and sell permits, this approach offers corporations a flexible, cost-efficient method to do their share to reduce emissions and combat global warming. The program will reduce emissions, drive the development of clean technologies, and create a market for projects that store carbon dioxide.

20% Renewable Electricity Standard by 2020 - Hillary believes we need to shift our reliance on high carbon electricity sources to low-carbon electricity sources by investing in renewable energy sources, such as solar and wind. As President, she'll work to require power companies to obtain 20 percent of their energy from renewable sources by 2020.

Make Federal Buildings Carbon Neutral - Hillary believes that the federal government should lead the way in reducing carbon emissions from buildings. Buildings account for 40 percent of U.S. greenhouse gas emissions, and the federal government owns or leases more than 500,000. Hillary would require all federal buildings to steadily increase the use of green design principles, energy efficient technologies, and to generate energy on-site from solar and other renewable sources. By 2030, all new federal buildings and major renovations would be carbon neutral, helping to fight global warming and cutting the $5.6 billion that the federal government spends each year on heating, cooling and lighting.

Protecting Against Exposure to Toxic Chemicals - Hillary wants to make the products we use safer, especially for children. There are tens of thousands of chemicals used in the U.S. and hundreds of new chemicals introduced each year, but little health testing is conducted for many of them. Hillary would require chemical companies to prove that new chemicals are safe before they are put on the market, and would set more stringent exposure standards for kids. She would also create a "priority list" of existing chemicals and require testing to make sure they are safe. To improve our understanding of the links between chemicals and diseases like cancer, Hillary would create an "environmental health tracking network" that ties together information about pollution and chronic diseases.

Hillary's Record

In the White House, Hillary led efforts to make adoption easier, to expand early learning and child care, to increase funding for breast cancer research, and to help veterans suffering from Gulf War syndrome who had too often been ignored in the past. She helped launch a national campaign to prevent teen pregnancy and helped create the Adoption and Safe Families Act of 1997, which moved children from foster care to adoption more quickly and the number of children who have moved out of foster care into adoption has increased dramatically.

She was instrumental in designing and championing the State Children's Health Insurance Program, which has provided millions of children with health insurance. She battled the big drug companies to force them to test their drugs for children and to make sure all kids get the immunizations they need through the Vaccines for Children Program. Immunization rates dramatically improved after the program launched.

Hillary has been a leading member of the Environment and Public Works Committee since she was elected to the Senate. Today, she chairs the Superfund and Environmental Health Subcommittee and in that capacity has promoted legislation to evaluate and protect against the impact of environmental pollutants on people's health and clean up toxic waste.

Global warming and Clean Air
Spoken out forcefully about the need to tackle global warming in hearings, speeches, rallies and on the Senate floor and co-sponsored "cap and trade" legislation.
Worked to reduce air pollution that causes asthma and other respiratory diseases by writing and helping to pass new laws to clean up exhaust from school buses, and other diesel-powered equipment.
Supported legislation to reduce pollution from power plants, including harmful emissions of sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxides, mercury, and carbon dioxide - emissions that contribute to poor air quality, smog, acid rain, global warming, and mercury contamination of fish.
Aggressively fought the Bush Administration's ill-advised attempts to weaken clean air laws.

Improving Water Quality and Protecting Drinking Water
Helped to overturn the Bush Administration's attempt to allow more arsenic in drinking water.
Cosponsored legislation to protect lakes, rivers and coastal waters by fighting the spread of destructive invasive species, such as the zebra mussel.
Helped ot pass new clean water laws, including measures to protect New York City's water supplies and clean up Long Island Sound.

Protecting Public Lands
Fought oil company efforts to pen the Artic Wildlife Refuge in Alask and Pacific and Atlantic coastal waters to drilling.
Cosponsored the Roadless Area Conservation Act, which prohibits road construction and logging in unspoiled, roadless areas of the National Forest System, and voted for additional funding and manpower to combat forest fires in the west.

Reducing Dangerous Chemicals and Cleaning Up Hazardous Waste
Supported legislation to restore the "polluter pays" principle by reinstating a chemical company fee to fund cleanups of highly contaminated "Superfund" waste sites.
Cosponsored the "kids-Safe Chemical Act," which requires chemical companies to provide health and safety before putting new chemicals in consumer products.
Proposed legislation to create an environmental health tracking network to enable us to better understand the impact of environmental hazards on human health and well-being.

Tackling the Toxic Legacy of 9/11
Pushed for health care benefits for first responders, residents and others whose health has been impacted from breathing the toxic dust and smoke in New York City after 9/11.
http://www.mydd.com/story/2007/8/20/134810/677

Hillary Clinton co-founded the Arkansas Advocates for Children and Families, a state-level alliance with the Children's Defense Fund, in 1977. In late 1977, President Jimmy Carter (for whom she had done 1976 campaign coordination work in Indiana) appointed her to the board of directors of the Legal Services Corporation, and she served in that capacity from 1978 through the end of 1981. For much of that time she served as the chair of that board, the first woman to do so. During her time as chair, funding for the Corporation was expanded from $90 million to $300 million, and she successfully battled against President Ronald Reagan's initial attempts to reduce the funding and change the nature of the organization.

Following the November 1978 election of her husband as Governor of Arkansas, Clinton became First Lady of Arkansas in January 1979, her title for a total of twelve years. Bill appointed her chair of the Rural Health Advisory Committee the same year, where she successfully obtained federal funds to expand medical facilities in Arkansas' poorest areas without affecting doctors' fees.

Hillary Clinton chaired the Arkansas Educational Standards Committee from 1982 to 1992, where she sought to bring about reform in the state's court-sanctioned public education system. One of the most important initiatives of the entire Clinton governorship, she fought a prolonged but ultimately successful battle against the Arkansas Education Association to put mandatory teacher testing as well as state standards for curriculum and classroom size in place. She introduced Arkansas' Home Instruction Program for Preschool Youth in 1985, a program that helps parents work with their children in preschool preparedness and literacy.

And a bit of stuff from the White House :

The First Lady worked to investigate reports of an illness that affected veterans of the Gulf War, which became known as the Gulf War syndrome. Together with Attorney General Janet Reno, Clinton helped create the Office on Violence Against Women at the Department of Justice. In 1997, she initiated and shepherded the Adoption and Safe Families Act, which she regarded as her greatest accomplishment as First Lady.

Along with Senator Ted Kennedy, she was the major force behind the State Children's Health Insurance Program in 1997, a federal effort that provided state support for children whose parents were unable to provide them with health coverage.<124> She promoted nationwide immunization against childhood illnesses and encouraged older women to seek a mammogram to detect breast cancer, with coverage provided by Medicare.<125> She successfully sought to increase research funding for prostate cancer and childhood asthma at the National Institutes of Health.<43> The First Lady worked to investigate reports of an illness that affected veterans of the Gulf War, which became known as the Gulf War syndrome.<43> Together with Attorney General Janet Reno, Clinton helped create the Office on Violence Against Women at the Department of Justice.<43> In 1997, she initiated and shepherded the Adoption and Safe Families Act, which she regarded as her greatest accomplishment as First Lady.<43> As First Lady, Clinton hosted numerous White House Conferences, including ones on Child Care (1997),<126> Early Childhood Development and Learning (1997),<127> and Children and Adolescents (2000),<128> and the first-ever White House Conferences on Teenagers (2000)<129> and Philanthropy (1999).<130>

Hillary Clinton traveled to over eighty countries during this time,<131> breaking the mark for most-travelled First Lady held by Pat Nixon.<132> In a September 1995 speech before the Fourth World Conference on Women in Beijing, Clinton argued very forcefully against practices that abused women around the world and in China itself.<133> She was one of the most prominent international figures at the time to speak out against the treatment of Afghan women by the Islamist fundamentalist Taliban that had seized control of Afghanistan.<134><135> She helped create Vital Voices, an international initiative sponsored by the United States to promote the participation of women in the political processes of their countries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton

More:
http://clinton.senate.gov/issues/nationalsecurity/israel/index.cfm
http://clinton.senate.gov/issues/nationalsecurity/darfur

The following are polls from progressive groups, rating Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, on how often they vote for progressive issues. For each group, http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/011142.php

Clinton Vs. Barack Obama (progressivepunch)
Overall Progressive Score: 92% 90%
Aid to Less Advantaged People at Home and Abroad: 98% 97%
Corporate Subsidies 100% N/A
Education, Humanities and the Arts 88% 100%
Environment 92% 100%
Fair Taxation 97% 100%
Family Planning 88% 80%
Government Checks on Corporate Power 95% 97%
Healthcare 98% 94%
Housing 100% 100%
Human Rights & Civil Liberties 82% 77%
Justice for All: Civil and Criminal 94% 91%
Labor Rights 91% 91%
Making Government Work for Everyone, Not Just the Rich or Powerful 94% 90%
War and Peace 80% 86%
easures to protect New York City's water supplies and clean up Long Island Sound.

HILLARY'S EXPERIENCE ON THE WORLD STAGE:

Her historic speech at the UN Fourth World Conference on Women in Beijing in 1995 not only galvanized women around the world, it helped spawn a movement that led to advances politically, legally, economically, and socially for women in many countries over the next decade. Among other initiatives, she spearheaded the Clinton Administration's efforts to combat the global crisis of human trafficking. She persuaded the First Ladies of the Americas to use their collective power to eradicate measles and improve girls' education throughout the western Hemisphere. And she is widely credited with helping women in Kuwait finally win the right to vote.

As First Lady and now as a two-term senator who represents the most ethnically diverse state in the nation and who sits on the Armed Services Committee, Hillary Clinton has become a fixture on international issues over the past 15 years. She has traveled to more than 80 countries, going from barrios to rural villages to meetings with heads of state. She has consulted with dozens of world leaders - Nelson Mandela, King Abdullah, Tony Blair among them -- on matters as diverse as America and NATO's roles in Kosovo, eradicating poverty in the Third World, and the plight of women living under the Taliban in Afghanistan.

Today, she is one of the most influential voices in the world on human rights, democracy, and the promotion of a "new internationalism" in foreign affairs that calls for a balanced use of military force, diplomacy, and social development to strengthen American interests and security globally.

While American First Ladies historically have made great (and often overlooked) contributions to our nation, Hillary Clinton's wide-ranging experience on international issues as First Lady is unprecedented. Indeed, she is the only First Lady to have delivered foreign policy addresses at major gatherings of the United Nations, the World Bank, the Council on Foreign Relations, and the World Economic Forum.

Hillary Clinton has been fighting for the rights of children for special needs for decades. In her first job out of law school working for the Children's Defense Fund, she conducted research that led to Congress passing the Education for All Handicapped Children Act of 1975, the landmark bill mandating that all children with disabilities be educated in the public school system. later, she helped improve the education of children with special needs by working to reauthorize the Individuals with Disabilities in Education Act. In 2005, she sponsored an amendment to increase funding for the act by $4 billion dollars. She also cosponsored the Personal Excellence for Children with Disabilities Act, a bill that promised to help schools recruit and retain new special education teachers, and better prepare general education teachers and staff to work with children with special needs.

Most recently, she has called for greatly expanded funding to the National Institute for Health to investigate treatments for children with disabilities. And she has put forth a comprehensive and detailed plan to help children and families affected by autism, with numerous elements that correspond very closely to what families in the autism community have been demanding for years.

some points on her legal career:

1969 Truehaft, Walker and Bernstein in Oakland, one of the most liberal law firms in the country. They defended the Panthers.
1970 Yale University - city legal services, provided free legal advice for the poor.
1971 Staff attorney, Children's Defense Fund in Cambridge, Massachusetts
1971 Carnegie Council on Children, legal consultant.
1974 Impeachment Inquiry staff in Washington, D.C., advising the House Committee on the Judiciary during the Watergate scandal.
1974 University of Arkansas, Fayetteville School of Law - One of only two female faculty members.
1976 Worked pro bono on child advocacy.
1978 Jimmy Carter appoints Clinton to the board of the Legal Services Corporation.


Education

Wellesley College where she majored in political science.
Yale Law School, where she served on the Board of Editors of the Yale Review of Law and Social Action.

Political Activist Experience

Pragmatic Liberal

Always fascinated by radicalism, she wrote her senior thesis on a great radical organizer of poor people, Saul Alinsky of Chicago. Though when she was offered a job by Alinsky, after she wrote about him, and she turned him down--because she didn't think he was effective enough. She said to her boyfriend at that timebe in politics you have to win. And it didn't look to her like Alinsky was winning enough of his battles. She came to question his methodology and concluded in her thesis that larger government programs and funding were needed, not just community action at the grass roots.

She was the commencement speaker at Wellesley in 1969, chosen by her fellow students--there had never been a student commencement speaker there before. The scheduled speaker was Sen. Edward Brooke of Massachusetts, who Hillary had campaigned for, a Republican, the first black to be a member of the U.S. Senate in a hundred years. In his remarks he was patronizing, Hillary thought. He seemed to defend the Nixon administration's conduct of the war, and didn't mention the wrenching events of 68. When he finished, Hillary got up and extemporaneously excoriated him. As a result of that speech, she was featured in Life magazine as exemplary of this new generation of student leaders. They ran a picture of her in pedal pushers and her Coke-bottle glasses. That article made her well known in the student movement in the U.S.

She monitored the Black Panther trial in New Haven. She monitored the trial to see if there were any abuses of the rights of the Panthers on trial, and helped schedule the monitors. Her reports were turned over to the ACLU.

1971 Senator Walter Mondale's subcommittee on migrant workers, researching migrant problems in housing, sanitation, health and education.

Political Campaign Experience

1964 In high school, volunteered for Republican candidate Barry Goldwater.
1968 New Hampshire, Eugene McCarthy primary challenge to LBJ.
1972 Campaigned in the western states for 1972 Democratic presidential candidate George McGovern
1976 Jimmy Carter Presidential race, served as an Indiana campaign coordinator.

The Clinton Campaigns (Bill Clinton has stated Hillary played pivotal roles in his campaigns)

1974 Bill Clinton's Congressional race (L)
1976 Bill Clinton's Attorney General race (W)
1978 Bill Clinton's Governor's Race (W)
1980 Bill Clinton's Governor's Race (L)
1982 Bill Clinton's Governor's Race (W)
1992 Bill Clinton's Presidential Race (W)
1996 Bill Clinton's Presidential Race (W)
2000 Hillary Clinton's Senate Campaign (W)
2006 Hillary Clinton's Senate Campaign (W)

Legal Experience

1969 Truehaft, Walker and Bernstein in Oakland, one of the most liberal law firms in the country. They defended the Panthers.
1970 Yale University - city legal services, provided free legal advice for the poor.
1971 Staff attorney, Children's Defense Fund in Cambridge, Massachusetts
1971 Carnegie Council on Children, legal consultant.
1974 Impeachment Inquiry staff in Washington, D.C., advising the House Committee on the Judiciary during the Watergate scandal.
1974 University of Arkansas, Fayetteville School of Law - One of only two female faculty members.
1976 Rose Law Firm. In 1979, she became the first woman to be made a full partner.
1976 Worked pro bono on child advocacy.
1978 Jimmy Carter appoints Clinton to the board of the Legal Services Corporation.

She was twice named by the National Law Journal as one of the 100 most influential lawyers in America, in 1988 and in 1991.

First Lady of Arkansas

1979 Chaired the Rural Health Advisory Committee
1979 Introduced the Arkansas' Home Instruction Program for Preschool Youth, a program that helps parents work with their children in preschool preparedness and literacy.
1982 - 1992 Chaired the Arkansas Educational Standards Committee

She was named Arkansas Woman of the Year in 1983 and Arkansas Mother of the Year in 1984.

Clinton had co-founded the Arkansas Advocates for Children and Families in 1977.

Served on the boards of the Arkansas Children's Hospital Legal Services (1988-1992)and the Children's Defense Fund (as chair, 1986-1992)

Corporate board of directors of TCBY (1985-1992),Wal-Mart Stores (1986-1992), and Lafarge (1990-1992)

First Lady of the United States of America

"She's very smart ... people rightly give her credit for having been a participant in the Clinton administration and for doing some heavy lifting on issues." Barack Obama, speaking of Hillary Clinton's White House experience and contradicting Obama supporters - The Daily Show with Jon Stewart 8/22/07



When asked about his wife's role in his administration in August of 2000, President Bill Clinton said "She basically had an unprecedented level of activity in her present position over the last eight years.''

1993 First to bring a serious universal healthcare plan to be considered by the US Congress
1997 Helped develop the Adoption and Safe Families Act of 1997

The First Lady led the effor on the Foster Care Independence bill, to help older, unadopted children transition to adulthood. She also hosted numerous White House conferences that related to children's health, including early childhood development (1997) and school violence (1999). She lent her support to programs ranging from "Prescription for Reading," in which pediatricians provided free books for new mothers to read to their infants as their brains were rapidly developing, to nationwide immunization against childhood illnesses. She also supported an annual drive to encourage older women to seek a mammography to prevent breast cancer, coverage of the cost being provided by Medicare.

Hillary Clinton was the only First Lady to keep an office in the West Wing among those of the president's senior staff. While her familiarity with the intricate political issues and decisions faced by the President, she openly discussed his work with him, yet stated that ultimately she was but one of several individuals he consulted before making a decision. They were known to disagree. Regarding his 1993 passage of welfare reform, the First Lady had reservations about federally supported childcare and Medicaid. When issues that she was working on were under discussion at the morning senior staff meetings, the First Lady often attended. Aides kept her informed of all pending legislation and oftentimes sought her reaction to issues as a way of gauging the President's potential response. Weighing in on his Cabinet appointments and knowing many of the individuals he named, she had working relationships with many of them.

She persuaded Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin to convene a meeting of corporate CEOs for their advice on how companies could be persuaded to adopt better child care measures for working families.

With Attorney General Janet Reno, the First Lady helped to create the Department of Justice's Violence Against Women office. One of her closest Cabinet allies was Secretary of State Madeleine Albright. Following her international trips, Hillary Clinton wrote a report of her observations for Albright. A primary effort they shared was globally advocating gender equity in economics, employment, health care and education.

During her trips to Africa (1997), Asia (1995), South America (1995, 1997) and the Central European former Soviet satellite nations (1997, 1998), Hillary Clinton emphasized "a civil society," of human rights as a road to democracy and capitalism.

The First Lady was also one of the few international figures at the time who spoke out against the treatment of Afghani women by Islamist fundamentalist Taliban that had seized control of Afghanistan.

One of the programs she helped create was Vital Voices, a U.S.-sponsored initiative to promote the participation of international women in their nation's political process. One result of the group's meetings, in Northern Ireland, was drawing together women leaders of various political factions that supported the Good Friday peace agreement that brought peace to that nation long at civil war.

Hillary Clinton was also an active supporter of the United States Agency for International Development (USAID), often awarding its micro-loans to small enterprises begun by women in developing nations that aided the economic growth in their impoverished communities. Certainly one of her more important speeches as First Lady addressing the need for equal rights for women was international in scope and created controversy in the nation where it was made: the September 1995 United Nations Fourth World Conference on Women in Beijing, China.

Senator From New York

After the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, Hillary worked with her colleagues to secure the funds New York needed to recover and rebuild. She fought to provide compensation to the families of the victims, grants for hard-hit small businesses, and health care for front line workers at Ground Zero.

She is the first New Yorker ever to serve on the Senate Armed Services Committee.

She has introduced legislation to tie Congressional salary increases to an increase in the minimum wage.

She helped pass legislation that encouraged investment to create jobs in struggling communities through the Renewal Communities program.

She has championed legislation to bring broadband Internet access to rural America.

She worked to strengthen the Children's Health Insurance Program, which increased coverage for children in low income and working families.

She authored legislation that has been enacted to improve quality and lower the cost of prescription drugs and to protect our food supply from bioterrorism.

She sponsored legislation to increase America's commitment to fighting the global HIV/AIDS crisis.

She's working for expanded use of information technology in the health care system to decrease administrative costs, lower premiums, and reduce medical errors.

She's worked to ensure the safety of prescription drugs for children, with legislation now included in the Best Pharmaceuticals for Children Act, and her legislation to help schools address environmental hazards. She has also proposed expanding access to child care.

She has passed legislation that will bring more qualified teachers into classrooms and more outstanding principals to lead our schools.

Hillary is one of the original cosponsors of the Prevention First Act to increase access to family planning. Her fight with the Bush Administration ensured that Plan B, an emergency contraceptive, will be available to millions of American women and will reduce the need for abortions.

She introduced the Count Every Vote Act of 2005 to ensure better protection of votes and to ensure that every vote is counted.

Senate Armed Services Committee

Subcommittees:

* Airland
* Emerging Threats and Capabilities
* Readiness and Management Support

Senate Committee on Environment & Public Works

Subcommittees:

* Subcommittee on Superfund and Environmental Health (Chair)
* Subcommittee Clean Air and Nuclear Safety
* Subcommittee on Transportation and Infrastructure

Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor & Pensions

Subcommittees:

* Children and Families
* Employment & Workplace Safety
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johnlal Donating Member (974 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #66
99. You forgot:
Voted to authorize war in Iraq.
Voted to authorize military action against Iran.
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NorthCarolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-05-08 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #99
147. You forgot:
Voted for Senate Bankruptcy Reform Act Of 2001.

1999-2000: Clinton Received Almost $210K From Finance/Credit Companies, Credit Unions And Commercial Banks During Her Senate Campaign. In Clinton’s 1999-2000 Senate campaign she received $13,600 from finance and credit companies, $5,475 from credit unions and $191,260 from commercial banks. (Center for Responsive Politics, accessed: 7/26/07)
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lwcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 05:39 AM
Response to Original message
67. Obama hasn't race-baited?
You slay me!
http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=aa0cd21b-0ff2-4329-88a1-69c6c268b304

Hasn't fabricated a lie? That's a good one.
http://www.correntewire.com/oopsie_2

Hasn't dismissed states he lost as irrelevant? That's right he's (finally) proud of all 48 states:
http://www.correntewire.com/the_48_state_strategy

Yup, he's run a high road campaign:
http://www.attacktimeline.com/

Just like he always does:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-070403obama-ballot,1,57567.story

Good thing his mentor wasn't Joe Lieberman, and that his voting record isn't virtually identical to Hillary's. Otherwise it would be weird that you hate her all the way off the Democratic island and yet praise the Hopeful One.

As always, believing it makes it so.

___

The Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy, now at my new home: Correntewire.com
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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 05:40 AM
Response to Reply #67
69. All his followers do is call everybody racists.
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crankychatter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #69
79. only a racist would post this
Edited on Fri Apr-04-08 08:29 AM by crankychatter
just kidding... oops I forgot

you're supposed to be ignored
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Erin Elizabeth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #69
96. Really?
I've not called anyone a racist.

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IowaGirl Donating Member (539 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #67
77. I love to start my day reading a really good post like this!!!!
:kick: :kick: :kick:
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AlertLurker Donating Member (877 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 06:16 AM
Response to Original message
71. PRESENT.
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JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 06:35 AM
Response to Reply #71
73. Yeah, how dare he make us hate him using a common voting option
in the Illinois Senate.

How seriously lame is that?
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IsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 07:38 AM
Response to Original message
74. I will not vote for McCain, but at least he is loyal to his party. I can't say the same for Hillary
For me, it's Obama or bust. I won't vote for a back stabber.
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crankychatter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
82. I don't see good reasons here so I'll give you some
Iraq War Vote and subsequent parroting of Administration justifications... include recent assertions that we gave Iraq "the gift of freedom," and blaming THEM for all subsequent mayhem.

Couldn’t be bothered to read the NIE before casting her pro-Iraq war vote

Support of Israel's brutal attack on South Lebanon when even Bush was critical

Opposed banning of landmines

Opposed limiting export of cluster bombs

Giving Bush Green Light to attack Iran with resolution declaring Republican Guard a "terrorist" organization

Voted for Patriot Act

Voted to extend Patriot Act with permanent revocation of our Constitutional Liberties

Criticism of the International Court of Justice for its landmark 2004 advisory ruling that the Fourth Geneva Conventions on the Laws of War is legally binding on all signatory nations.

Has made pro-torture declarations when queried regarding "ticking bomb" scenario

Opposed the complete repeal of DOMA (the Defense of Marriage Act)

Hillary-care with it's mandates will give a very profitable monopoly to big pharma, big medical and big insurance industry backers... WHILE entrenching us in a system that will be used to justify NEVER moving toward true single-payer which this country desperately needs. Ask ANY government employee and they will tell you that, only the upper grades get Blue Cross... everyone else gets an HMO. HMO's are CLASS GENOCIDE.

Clinton's War Criminal Advisors:
Madeleine Albright, she was the main force behind the Iraq sanctions that killed more than 400,000 Iraqi civilians.

General Wesley Clark, he was the one who ran the bombing of Serbia in the former Yugoslavia, came out and publicly said that he was going after civilian targets, like electrical plants, like the TV station there.

Richard Holbrooke, in the Carter administration he was the one who oversaw the shipment of weapons to the Indonesian military as they were invading—illegally invading East Timor and killing a third of the population there, and he was the one who kept the UN Security Council from enforcing its resolution against that invasion.

Strobe Talbott, he was the one who, during the Clinton administration, oversaw Russia policy, a backing of Yeltsin, which resulted in turning over the national wealth to the oligarchs and a drop in life expectancy in much of Russia of about fifteen years—massive, massive death.

And you have various backers of the Iraq invasion and occupation and the recent escalation, people like General Jack Keane, Michael O’Hanlon and others.

Clinton's Senate Record:
Hillary Clinton, who has been in the Senate for eight years, has authored or co-authored only 20 bills, 15 of which were concerned with honoring this-or-that person, naming roads, bridges, and post offices after them, or designating holidays. While Obama has been working like a house of fire, she’s been a passive space-filler, showing no initiative, and content to sit back, collect a paycheck, and vote on other people’s work.

NOW, we have a candidate that, although not MY first choice and NO saint, has done an end run around the PAC dominated, old school system of campaign financing, with OUR help online. The perception of change from this old system of corruption will motivate MILLIONS of cynical and politically marginalized people in November. Clinton represents the old way... and Americans across the political spectrum are SICK AND TIRED of War Profiteers and Transnational Corporations having more say in our government than WE DO.

OK, you may hate her now.
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LaloBorges Donating Member (115 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 08:53 AM
Response to Original message
84. No reason and no room for "hate"
"hate" should not be in anyone's vocabulary and never promoted as you are trying to do here, not even towards people like Bush and Cheney and least of all against someone like Hillary Clinton. Yes, she has run a terrible campaign and made some comments that she should not have but I believe she has been ill-adviced by her people.

Also remember that she was running a very clean campaign at the beginning and she was up on the polls, until John Edwards and Barack Obama started attacking her during one of the debates. She should have kept going the way she started but must have recieved bad advice and went into a silly atack that has hurt her more than helped her.

Also remember that she and McCain have worked on policies that have been very good for the country, and of course that was when McCain was a true maverick and not the shadow of one that he has become.

I am ashamed at the "hate" that the Obama supporters continue to display, we should be united and not carry on with this inmature behaviour.

I do like Hillary, but I will admit to her multiple mistakes during the campaign, and if Obama wins the nomination I will support him and so should you if Hillary wins the nomination, which I doubt she will but one never knows. This kind of behaviour only fuels the republicans, they enjoy it more than the Obama supporters.

Shame on you...
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Just-plain-Kathy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 08:53 AM
Response to Original message
85. Great post!!
The DLC is just a way of staking the deck for corporate America. If Obama doesn't win this year, corporate America does.
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
86. Clinton & Obama, as well as their supporters, remind me of my two youngest nephews
Clinton would be nephew A and Obama is nephew B.

Nephew A is older than B by 15 months, when they were little he would sometimes become annoyed with B and slug him for no apparent reason. He would, deservedly, get punished for that. But, just as often, newphew B was more passive agressive and would pick, pick, pick at his brother until the older one reacted. The younger one would then stand there wailing and pretending he had done nothing and didn't deserve this treatment. What drove me nuts, was their parents refused to see what the younger one was doing and just thought the older one was "mean to his brother".

I just can't understand how we wound up with only these two choices. I want Clinton to stay in the race so I can cling to my fantasy of a deadlocked convention and another choice.

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reddconsole Donating Member (31 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
88. NEITHER candidate
has engaged in race baiting...that's the Corporate Media's own fabrication.
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Zambero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #88
104. I agree! Sensationalism sells
Hillary Clinton is not a racist, and Obama is not sexist. Enter "surrogates", "political journalists", overzealous followers, and the usual assortment of MSM talking heads who will connect the dots in any wayward fashion to prove their point (= BIAS).
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johnlal Donating Member (974 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
98. Thank you for that
I cannot understand how anybody can endure the Joe Lieberman drama, and then act as if Hillary Clinton will be any different.
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Erin Elizabeth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
101. ...
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
106. If you don't mind my asking: who the fuck gave you the right to decide who is a Democrat?
I'm an Obama supporter, but this post and many of the comments in it are as full of shit as anything I've seen on GD-P.

Get over yourself. Democrats come in a variety of shapes and sizes, with a variety of positions. If you want a party where everyone acts in lockstep -- and every position that they take is identical to the position you would take -- go start your own party.
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parkeradison Donating Member (82 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
107. Regarding "hating Hillary"
I understand what you're saying, but "hate" is a strong, negative emotion. I suggest that you spend more time loving Obama and less time hating Hillary.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
108. Hook, line, and sinker.
And you're not even thrashing in the water. Might as well have been scooped up in a net.
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Ronnie Donating Member (674 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
114. After reading this thread, all I have to say is
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GoneOffShore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
116. I don't hate her but I do think she's becoming more Gollum like as time goes by


"The Houses isss mine, won't let tricksy Obama hobbit get it, No we won'ts will we Preciousss?"
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Baby Snooks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
118. "Neo-Con Artists"
Edited on Fri Apr-04-08 01:04 PM by Baby Snooks
The "neo-con" movement was just as much involved with domestic agenda as it was foreign agenda and the "neo-con artists" merely diverted everyone's attention by focusing on the foreign agenda when in fact the real agenda was the domestic one since that was the foundation for both agendas. We were all led astray by the Pied Piper. And have found ourselves in the river. Drowning.

They hijacked the Republican Party and apparently hijacked the Democratic Party as well. They are one party. The Republicrat Party.

And Hillary Clinton is of that party. She does not represent the people. Neither did Bill Clinton.

That is just reality. Some just simply don't like reality.
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
119. Hill is not one of us...KR
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
122. Hate is a very strong word
I don't hate many people, and I reserve that for people who truly are despicable, the lowest of the low.

People like Rove, Cheney, Rumsfeld - they deserve hate.

I might dislike Hillary, but I don't HATE her.
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placton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
124. I am gonna just start posting on these hate messages
U my friend are the one who is no dem, but lost in the love of Obama.
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bbgrunt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
125. hear! here!!!
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bluerum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
132. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
How "liberal" of you.
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bigwillq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
139. Obama and Clinton are both centrist DEMS
There is really not too much of a difference between those two candidates.

However, each would make a much better president than McCain, which is why I am planning on supporting whichever gets the DEM nomination.
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Shae Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-04-08 09:44 PM
Response to Original message
144. Okay Mr. Skynyrd
I have to respectfully disagree.
Hillary Clinton may not be on the progressive side of the party, but she is a Democrat.
Democrats aren't stamped out of the same dough with cookie cutters. We're not cloned from one original Democrat.

We're not the party of exclusion. We're the big tent people.
It serves no purpose to fragment us further.
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