Clinton didn't lie. (about the pregnant woman story)

[AGirl]

She said she was told that story by the Deputy Sheriff.

[DJ13]

1. Its always somebody else at fault for those words coming out of her mouth

:eyes:

[roguevalley]

120. given her bosnia fib, I would be really careful of what I said because

I was running for president, not village idiot.

[roguevalley]

128. UPDATE: Her campaign says they never vetted this story. Admit its

bunk. Go here: www.americablog.com

The NY Times has the article. The JedReport has video of Clinton telling the story again yesterday -- and it's not pretty. As Jed notes, "The level of detail with which Clinton tells this yarn is breathtaking." Today, the Clinton campaign admitted to CNN, "In this case, we did try, but were not able to fully vet it." What? How can that be? Seriously.

[Obamanaut]

151. And the WMD story wasn't vetted either. nt

[TML]

2. She lied

If she's going to retell that story to her supporters, then it is her responsibility to check her sources. She lied to the American people again.

[AGirl]

4. How do you know it's her supporter? It's the Deputy Sheriff who told the story.

You can say she should have check her sources, but you can't say she lied.

[TML]

12. Re-read my post

"If she's going to retell that story to her supporters, then it is her responsibility to check her sources."

I never said it was her supporter. Did I?

Quit defending the defenseless. She lied again. Get over it.

[11 Bravo]

40. A lie requires cognizance of the fact that a statement is false.

She didn't lie. YOU get over it.

[TML]

49. Why should I?

What's the matter? You don't like it when I vett your candidate?

[11 Bravo]

61. She's not my candidate. If you had been here for a while, you might know that.

However, your post count and disabled profile indicate that something else may be at play here. In any case, stick around. You may find that some of us call bullshit when supporters of any candidate post crap. The definition of the word "lie" is clear, and Senator Clinton did not lie. Should she be responsible for quoting a source of which she is not sure. I say yes. But failure to do so is not a lie.

[TML]

87. You want proof?

I'll have it for you when I upload it. Just because I have my profile disabled doesn't mean my opinions don't count.

Answer this: If you or I passed along a story that we knew couldn't be verified, we would be called liars. Why should you or I be held to a higher standard than Hillary?

[11 Bravo]

92. I'll have to fall back and rely on the English language.

Someone lied to her. She repeated what she had heard. If she was unaware that what she had been told was untrue, SHE DID NOT LIE! If you can't wrap your mind around that, then you are either so infatuated with one candidate, or so contemptuous of another, that you are no longer able to decipher what, I assume, is your native tongue.

[TML]

91. Here's your proof

Jed Report beat me to the punch. Here's the thread. Enjoy the show :popcorn:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x114882

[ekwhite]

150. I appreciate your support for Obama but

she did not lie in that case. She specifically said a deputy sheriff told her that story. The deputy sheriff did tell her that story. Her campaign didn't check out the story. That is a case of incompetence, not a lie. She should know better than to tell a story without checking it out.

[Royal Oak Rog]

51. She didn't push for free trade with

the Columbians either, her campaign manager did. Sooner or later she's got to take responsibility for her campaign if she wants to be seen as Miss 3am responsibility.

[roguevalley]

121. then she's delusional, or half witted, or completely out of her depth.

take your pick if you find lie offensive. being that careless is indefensible.

[Zhade]

132. So she didn't lie, she just didn't know it was true and said it anyway?

That's not a positive either!

[anigbrowl]

22. Does the phrase 'urban legend' mean anything to you?

You get on the internet, you read some wild story about a-friend-of-a-friend, you repeat it all over because it's HUGH!!!111!, then someone introduces you to snopes.com and you realize you were pretty gullible. Unless you're Hillary Clinton. Yep, she's one of the most powerful and well-resourced people in the country, perhaps the world, she's spent years in the public spotlight dealing with spin and counter-spin, but she's never heard of doing a fact check.

And some people say she's ready to take on the GOP in the GE.

[Adelante]

35. He hosted her in his home

I took the Deputy Sheriff to be a supporter :shrug:

[PoliticalAmazon]

63. Either way, she is unfit to be president...

...This is a pattern with her, and her vote on Iraq is another instance of her excuse making her situation worse.

She voted for the Iraq War, and did nothing meaningful to stop the war in the interim. She was silent on bringing our troops home for years. She runs for office. Now she says she voted for the Iraq war because she was tricked and didn't know that there were no WMDs and Sadam was not connected to 9/11.

If she knew the truth about the Iraq War and voted for it anyway, then she put her own personal interests ahead of the good of the country, and she is unfit to be president or hold any political position. She had access to much more intel than people like you and I, yet she claims she didn't know that the reasons for going to war were lies. She should have known and she didn't, and this also makes her unfit for any political position, especially the presidency.

Same with her lie about the woman and the hospital. Before she told such a story which makes a hospital look very bad, could actually cause them loss of reputation and financial losses, and she should have verified it. The hospital said her staff never called to verify it. She said they tried to verify it but had problems. But she told it anyway.

So it is either one of two things: if she knew the story was untrue and said it anyway, she intentionally wrongfully accused a hospital of the most unacceptable behavior, risking financial and reputation loss by the hospital. She put her own political needs ahead of risking harm to a hospital, and this makes her unfit to hold a political office.

If she didn't know and couldn't verify it, but told it anyway, this is REALLY bad judgment, especially since it could cause harm to a hospital, and this also makes her unfit to hold office.

[papau]

14. Never trust the police - always trust the Company denial - esp. if it helps to smear Hillary

[TML]

19. Never trust the police?

ROTFL!!! That's a minority talking point.

[papau]

26. Heck - the original source is the family of the dead women - but I guess DU judges them liars

[TML]

28. I never called that woman's family liars

Hillary told a whopper of a lie on stage. SHE is the liar.

[OzarkDem]

34. She lied about the woman and her child dying?

Do tell.

[TML]

37. She lied

About the woman not having insurance. If you were watching CNN, you would have caught that.

[OzarkDem]

41. Swiftboating Clinton on the backs of a dead woman and her child is wrong

and if you have proof that she made a deliberate choice and gave false information about this woman's tragic situation please do provide a link.

[TML]

43. Watch CNN

Or get the transcript from the 2pm EST segment from Ballot Bowl when it's available later today.

[OzarkDem]

48. No, I want you to explain

How a woman and her infant's deaths were justified and how Hillary Clinton lied about them.

Give me a link.

[TML]

50. I said watch CNN Ballot Bowl

or get the transcript when it's available LATER TODAY. What part of future tense don't you understand?

[OzarkDem]

68. Let me see if I understand this..

You, a new poster at DU, who has his profile disabled, is attacking someone who is defending Hillary Clinton from an attack by Obama supporters over a case where a woman and her infant died because they didn't get proper medical attention.

Clinton is being attacked by newbie Obama supporters because her source had the incorrect information about the woman's health insurance status. And she's being attacked in stories by a corporate controlled news source that opposes health care reform. And you want me to watch some story on their channel that is going to somehow make Clinton look bad.

[Name removed]

82. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[apocalypsehow]

111. Ah, and right on cue come the personal attacks. Classy, as ever.

:eyes:

[Zhade]

159. CLINTON LIED ABOUT THE MOTHER BEING TURNED AWAY, WHICH DIDN'T HAPPEN.

NT!

[Umbram]

170. Trust me - nobody would ask YOU to educate yourself with pesky facts. (nt)

[catgirl]

64. That's BS

The family didn't about the woman not having insurance. Hillary did.
Btw, have you seen Sicko?

[OzarkDem]

71. Yes I've seen Sicko and this woman's case is a perfect example

So why the attacks on Clinton for highlighting it?

[roseBudd]

95. Because that is not how showing up at an ER works, I know I've shown up at OH ERs...

numerous times, sometimes with unpaid bills and never been turned away. Or required to put up a $100 bill.

[OzarkDem]

101. She died in the ER

after getting turned away when she began experiencing complications.

By the time she got to the ER it was too late.

[ekwhite]

153. Actually, that claim was refuted by the hospital

She had insurance, and was being treated by one of the hospital doctors. The sheriff had the story wrong, Clinton repeated it. The campaign's only sin was not checking out the story. No lying involved, nothing to see here, move along.

[madmom]

130. I work with a woman who was turned away from an Ohio ER because of a bill

[catgirl]

98. Because she lied about the woman not having health insurance

that's why.

[ekwhite]

154. There is no evidence that she lied

There is plenty of evidence that she was wrong, however.

[catgirl]

127. And perhaps you AND Hillary should watch it again.

[Zhade]

134. BECAUSE SHE LIED ABOUT THE HOSPITAL TURNING THE MOTHER AWAY, WHICH DIDN'T HAPPEN.

I know clinton attracts the dumber among us, but try to keep the fuck up. You've been told this already.

[anigbrowl]

79. Sorry, with your record I'm betting you have the facts wrong.

You say this, but you don't provide any kind of link to back up your claim (as is typical). I don't mean to be rude, but you strike me as extremely unreliable. Please prove me wrong if you have actual information to the contrary.

[ekwhite]

152. Her source told it to her third hand

Her campaign did not check out third-hand information. Very sloppy.

[anigbrowl]

75. Yeah, like they would ID themselves if they couldn't back up the story

It seems not to have occurred to you that there would be coroners' reports, admission records, and insurance paperwork to back up their claim. They say the woman was in fact insured and that the deaths were the results of medical complications.

I'm inclined to believe them. My old man (now retired) was a regional health CEO (for an area about the size of CT) in Ireland, where we have a full public healthcare system. I was living there some years ago when a similar case blew up, to do with a pregnant woman who delivered early, had complications, and her and the child died in the back of an ambulance.

It was a big deal because the health authority had just closed a small (~30 bed) local hospital, and politicians who wanted to have a go at the government of the day were saying that if she hadn't had to make a longer ambulance journey she and the baby would have survived. Of course, they didn't bother to mention that the small local hospital had obstetric staff, and that the very limited surgical facilities it did have were so substandard as to be dangerous. In other words, the woman wouldn't have been brought to that hospital for that problem anyway.

Now, the only similarity in these cases are that a mom and baby tragically died and the story got turned into a political issue because there was an election coming up. But since my Dad and I had been about to take a vacation together, I happened to be with him throughout the whole media circus. The sad fact is that since medicine in a scary mystery to most people, they're far more willing to buy into a story of hospitals/ambulances staffed by incompetent butchers than deal with reality that delivering a baby is still one of a very high-risk medical situation, and when it goes wrong it tends to go really really wrong.

The sadder fact is that politicians are quite willing to capitalize on this whenever it suits them. Look at the whole Terry Schiavo BS.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[StevieM]

123. Once again, there is a brand new standard introduced for Hillary, demanded of her by the man

who's father was brought to America by the Kennedys.

Steve

[hedgehog]

3. It's too bad she didn't use this story instead.

The death of a Prince George's County boy this week from an infection that started with an abscessed tooth has spurred lawmakers to demand better dental care for poor children and has prompted a deluge of calls to local dentists for advice and appointments.

Deamonte Driver, a 12-year-old homeless child, died Sunday in a District hospital after an infection from a molar spread to his brain.

At the time he fell ill, his family's Medicaid coverage had lapsed. Even on the state plan, his mother said, the children lacked regular dental care and she had great difficulty finding a dentist.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/02/AR2007030200827.html

[OzarkDem]

25. The other story is also valid

at this time we only have the word of the hospital that the woman was uninsured. We don't know the details of the case or what the woman was told by hospital personnel that prevented her from getting medical care.

Those are the answers we need. Swiftboating Clinton on the backs of a dead woman and her dead child is beyond the pale for the Obama campaign.

[movonne]

5. I think it would have been a good idea to check this story out before

putting it out...this may not be her fault but someone should pay for not not checking this story out...

[AGirl]

7. I am fine with people having problem with her not checking out the sources, but saying she is lying

is wrong or unproven.

[TML]

24. Why is that?

If she's spreading a false story, she LIED to the American people.

[ekwhite]

156. No she didn't

It is only lying if she deliberately spread a false story that she knew to be true. The evidence is that neither her nor the deputy sheriff knew that the story was false. She was guilty of sloppiness, but not lying.

[JBoy]

6. From the title of your OP I wasn't sure which lie you were talking about.

[LowerManhattanite]

46. When you're constantly having to say “X person didn't lie!”...

...it probably means they've got a burgeoning credibility problem.

That said, has our loopy “OP” switched to maybe backing Harold Stassen for President?

[TexanDem]

8. Granted - but she needs to be credible, not spread rumors

[itsrobert]

9. Yes and Cheney told Bush there were WMD in Iraq

:sarcasm:

[OzarkDem]

29. Swiftboating Clinton on the backs of dead people is wrong

Regardless of how much fun you're having with this story, two people - a mother and her infant - died because of lack of access to proper medical care. Regardless of the veracity of the hospitals claims, something terribly wrong and terribly tragic happened as a result of that hospital's failure to provide adequate health care.

That you would choose to exploit their tragic, unnecessary deaths as an opportunity to swiftboat Hillary is a new low.

[itsrobert]

106. Whoa, Hillary is the one exploiting it for political gain

Up is down and night is day.

[ekwhite]

161. Ozark, the story was wrong

Quit calling it swiftboating. The mother had health insurance and proper medical care, as far as we know. You can't say that the hospital failed to provide adequate health care, based on what we know now. It appears that Clinton took a third-party story at face value, and got burned.

I agree with the OP that Clinton was not lying - she was mistaken. Defending her with swiftboating charges and false claims that the hospital failed to provide adequate health care is not helping Hillary Clinton.

[Zhade]

165. CLINTON LIED ABOUT THE MOTHER BEING TURNED AWAY, WHICH DIDN'T HAPPEN.

NT!

[Hepburn]

10. So what?

Did she ever think of just maybe:

1. Confirming this with the hospital?

2. Speaking to the family of the deceased?

3. Checking court records to see if a law suit was pending over the same?

:eyes:

Come on....she cannot be so dumb to hear something like this and not look into to. But then again...there's that sniper story....she might just be that dumb or think the voting public is.

[C_U_L8R]

11. She sure didn't speak the truth

however the Clinton's parse it

[LaurenG]

13. Will someone please tell her to stop it

Her campaign staff are idiots for letting her say things that aren't true. She may have believed the story but she needs to be careful since she's already "misremembered" a few other things. It's starting to look like a pattern emerging.

[pdxmom]

15. So she repeated a story that wasn't true. That is better in what way? N/T

[OzarkDem]

33. The story is true, the woman died unnecessarily

as did her infant. Something went wrong in the health care system to make that happen.

[pdxmom]

85. Please cite your source. I have seen nothing regarding her cause

of death.

[Zhade]

136. STOP LYING. cLINTON SAID THE MOTHER WAS TURNED AWAY, WHICH DID NOT HAPPEN.

Why are clinton's supporters so eager to lie for her?

[ekwhite]

163. The story is NOT true

Quit trying to claim that it is. The truth is that the women and her child died. There is no evidence that she died unnecessarily.

Here is a link to a New York Times article on the subject. Where is the evidence backing up your claim?

[Avalux]

16. Should have vetted the story before making it a highlight of her stump speech.

For all Hillary's experience in politics, she should know that.

[EFerrari]

21. Exactly. There are plenty of true stories out there.

I had my second baby at home because midway through the pregnancy, we lost our health insurance and didn't qualify for any help and had no rich uncles at the time. All we could afford was a doc to supervise the midwives. And that was in the 70s, not the 1930s. I'm sure other people have worse stories and were less lucky than we were that everything turned out all right.

[OzarkDem]

38. So the woman's tragic death was a rumor?

So because the hospital says the woman had insurance, the tragedy of her not getting adequate care that resulted in her death and her child's was a rumor?

Swiftboating Clinton on the backs of a dead woman and her child is beyond the pale. You should be ashamed.

[Zhade]

137. SHE LIED ABOUT THE MOTHER BEING TURNED AWAY.

No one is falling for your spin. You continue to fail, and you should be fucking ashamed yourself for lying so brazenly.

[ColbertWatcher]

17. For everyone bashing Hillary for her words...

...I hope you have the same reaction when McCain does it.

We can't bust heads like we used to, but we have our ways. One trick is to tell them stories that don't go anywhere. Like the time I took the ferry to Shelbyville. I needed a new heel for my shoe so I decided to go to Morganville, which is what they called Shelbyville in those days. So I tied an onion to my belt, which was the style at the time. Now to take the ferry cost a nickel, and in those days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on them. Give me five bees for a quarter you'd say. Now where were we, oh yeah...the important thing was that I had an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time. They didn't have white onions because of the war. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones...

[rocktivity]

18. She should have double-checked the story anyway.

She SHOULD have contacted either the family of the deceased or the hospital. She's running for president of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, not of a sorority!

:headbang:
rocknation

[OzarkDem]

20. The woman and her child died

and that may have been unnecessary. Modern medical care has greatly diminished these tragedies.

Whether she had insurance isn't as much the issue as what happened that acted as a barrier to her getting timely medical care.

Even people with insurance face high co-pays for appointments and treatment. Appointment clerks and low level staff often make mistakes and tell patients they owe cash copayments when they may not. There are a dozen things that the hospital could have done to prevent this woman from getting timely care.

Blaming the patient and Hillary Clinton and exploiting the story for political gain is wrong. Dead wrong.

[TLM]

112. Pathetic....

"exploiting the story for political gain is wrong. Dead wrong."


So where was your outrage when Hillary was lying about this dead woman and her dead child for her own political gain?


Why is your outrage reserved only for when someone called Clinton on yet again manipulating the facts and lying to try to prop up her failing campaign?


Read up, even Hillary's own campaign people said... they didn't bother to call the hospital to vet the story.

[catgirl]

27. You can't defend her on this one

She was a LAWYER. Lawyers check out the facts before presenting
anything. Oh, I forgot, she twisted things back then as well. The
young girl who was raped had her horrific story spun by Clinton.
The girl "liked older men".......

We don't need another liar in the White House.

[OzarkDem]

30. Making political hay with tragic deaths

what a great group of folks Obama and his supporters are.

[catgirl]

59. Wait a minute! SHE'S made political hay over someone death!

Don't even TRY to turn the tables on this.

[OzarkDem]

80. By pointing out the problems in our health care system

yes, shame on her for bringing the issue to light.

[Marrah_G]

97. Makes you wonder what site you are on, huh?

:crazy:

[catgirl]

99. Michael Moore brought this issue to light

and the fact that Hillary has received an enormous amount of money
from the health insurance industry. Good try.

And lying about the dead woman's situation is disgusting.

[OzarkDem]

102. You're so right

Calling attention to the unnecessary death of this woman because of lack of access and failures in our health care system is a terrible thing for Hillary to do. How dare she?
:eyes:

[LaurenG]

108. Again?

Are you still missing the point? She.should.tell.a.true.story. Why make a liar out of herself?

What is her major malfunction with all this made up emotional stuff. Hasn't she ever encountered real stories of real people where she was involved. That is the kind of story she should tell and then she wouldn't be in this mess. :shrug:

Here are the facts. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3256604

[catgirl]

124. I'm so NOT clueless!

The woman had health insurance. She dies tragically. Hillary used her death
as a campaign story, but she had to add lies to the story. This one won't go
away, even though you too, are trying to keep the lis going... I think that's
horrible.

[ekwhite]

164. Again with the spin

You must be deliberately misrepresenting the issue, no one could be that dense. This woman did not die because of lack of access to the health care system, as far as we know. We do not know what the cause of death was. It could have been one of many causes. Unfortunately, hospitals cannot save everyone who comes in the door of the ER. This is reality. Unless you have EVIDENCE that there was malpractice by the hospital, you should refrain from claiming it is their fault.

[TLM]

114. HAHAHAAHAHAHAAH!!! Spin any faster...

and we'll have to start calling you taz.



So it is horrible and wrong to use an embellished story of a dead woman and her child for political gain... UNLESS you are Hillary using it for your political gain. Then you are a hero for brigning the issue to light.


But if someone points out that Hillary lied about the details.... they are using the dead woman and child for political gain, and that's wrong... UNLESS Hillary is doing it.

[Zhade]

138. That's what SHE'S doing, you fucking moron. Stop lying to defend the indefensible.

NT!

[tishaLA]

148. LOL! but how do you REALLY feel Zhade?

[Zhade]

160. Sick and tired of liars and their lying supporters!

I hate lies. They are the death of all that is good, and some here are all too willing to just make shit up and deny proven lies for a liar who deserves no quarter.

I get a little passionate about that. : )

[dchill]

172. "Making political hay with tragic deaths"

You are just priceless. You know damn well that "Obama and his supporters" aren't the ones with the "political hay" in mind - especially on this Clinton-embellished non-starter that cynically abused the tragic truth about the deaths of this woman and her child. The story was EASY to vet. It is illegal in Ohio for hospitals to deny care because of inability to pay. Clinton just saw something she could use - to make political hay. As it were.

[NJmaverick]

31. Instead she irresponsibly retold a false rumor

That she knew was so far fetched she tried to have it verified (only they couldn't, as the story was untrue). Yet she told the story anyway. So she isn't a liar (in this case) just an irresponsible person who's statements can not be trusted to be true.

[OzarkDem]

36. The woman's unnecessary death was a rumor?

The failure of the hospital to provide her and her infant with adequate care to prvent their deaths was a rumor?

Do you have a link for that?

[NJmaverick]

39. You have no proof that it was unnecessary death or that

the hospital failed to provide adequate care. So why are you claiming such? You seem to be playing fast and loose with the facts, just like Hillary

[OzarkDem]

42. Did the woman die? Did her infant die?

[NJmaverick]

47. Those are the only KNOWN facts

To add any more "facts" would be improper and irresponsible to say the least (one could argue it would be dishonest as well, but I wouldn't take it that far).

[OzarkDem]

52. Ex-fucking-actly

all the more reason why this story needs to be fully investigated before we tar and feather Hillary for having the temerity to bring up the case of the tragic deaths of a mother and her infant and the failure of our health care system to prevent them.

[NJmaverick]

54. The story should have been fully investigated BEFORE

Hillary started telling it as a factual story. That should have been the time that should have been done. That shows that the accuracy of her statements can not be trusted to be true or accurate. That's not a very good trait for a potential president

[OzarkDem]

70. The woman's insurance status doesn't alter the story

Its a diversion from the fact that the woman received substandard care and died as a result.

[roseBudd]

96. There is no evidence she received or died from substandard care so it is not a fact

[OzarkDem]

103. Maybe some day you'll end up in the same situation

bleeding to death from complications of giving birth to a stillborn child and not being able to afford a copay.

[roseBudd]

107. That does not change the fact that this anecdotal heresay is not established fact

[Zhade]

158. CLINTON LIED ABOUT THE MOTHER BEING TURNED AWAY, WHICH DIDN'T HAPPEN.

NT!

[TLM]

115. Hillary said she did not have insurance...

So if she DID in fact have coverage... then yeah it does alter the story, it proves hillary lied AGAIN.


Now where is your evidence that this woman was denied care?

[catgirl]

67. Yes, and then she added to the story

for her own benefit. How sick!

[NJmaverick]

45. Do you have proof that this was an "unnecessary death"

Do you proof the hospital did not provide her and her infant son adequate care?

You don't have any proof or facts, that's exactly what Hillary did. Make a statement as if it was factual, with out having any sort of solid indication that it was true.

[OzarkDem]

60. Its highly likely they were unneccessary

And this is perfect opportunity to do a full and open investigation of the case, for all to see. A great opportunity to show how fucked up our health care system has become in the US.

Medicine has advanced very far these days so that women and infants, when given full access to quality medical care, are unlikely to die. The big problem is full access to quality medical care.

Did you know the US has infant mortality rates now that are on par with third world countries? This shit should not be happening here and deaths like this are the result of either poor, inadequate or untimely medical care. And yes, even women on Medicaid - which was probably her situation - do not get quality care. Ohio has made a practice of controlling Medicaid costs by putting up as many barriers to care as possible.

If you would rather hide the culpability of the health care provider and the health care system in these deaths, in order to score points against Clinton, be my guest. Prepare to be judged for doing so.

[TLM]

117. If it was highly likely, then why did Clinton's campaign say....

The woman, Trina Bachtel, did die last August, two weeks after her baby boy was stillborn at O’Bleness Memorial Hospital in Athens, Ohio. But hospital administrators said Friday that Ms. Bachtel was under the care of an obstetrics practice affiliated with the hospital, that she was never refused treatment and that she was, in fact, insured.

“We implore the Clinton campaign to immediately desist from repeating this story,” said Rick Castrop, chief executive officer of the O’Bleness Health System.

Linda M. Weiss, a spokeswoman for the not-for-profit hospital, said the Clinton campaign had never contacted the hospital to check the accuracy of the story, which Mrs. Clinton had first heard from a Meigs County, Ohio, sheriff’s deputy in late February.

A Clinton spokesman, Mo Elleithee, said candidates would frequently retell stories relayed to them, vetting them when possible. “In this case, we did try but were not able to fully vet it,” Mr. Elleithee said. “If the hospital claims it did not happen that way, we respect that.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/05/us/politics/05woman.html?_r=3&ei=5090&en=7824b4f8ea3b363d&ex=1365134400&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin&oref=slogin&oref=slogin


So now, where's your proof that she was denied care and died because she couldn't pay 100 bucks?

[Zhade]

140. CLINTON LIED ABOUT THE MOTHER BEING TURNED AWAY, WHICH DIDN'T HAPPEN.

NT!

[ekwhite]

166. Actually, I do

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/05/us/politics/05woman.html?ref=politics

[Erin Elizabeth]

32. She was stupid for not checking it out before using it

in her speeches.

She was stupid for not using one of the many horror stories that she could have had verified as true in advance.

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

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[Erin Elizabeth]

53. And how am I stupid?

What story did I pass on without checking out its veracity?

[NJmaverick]

56. You are far from stupid Erin

Unfortunately you are seeing the frustration of people who are seeing their candidates campaign go down in flames.

[catgirl]

69. So funny, I was accused of being stupid too

for posting a fact about the Clinton Foundation. Probably by the same
poster! It sucks being backed into a corner.

[OzarkDem]

74. Spinning tragic deaths to attack Clinton

and elevate Obama, who opposes universal health care, hurts everyone. Some day, when you need health care and can't get it, you will realize the error of your ways.

[Erin Elizabeth]

76. Where did I mention Obama?

It was STUPID of her to repeat a story that she did NOT KNOW TO BE TRUE. Period. You think she's got to repeat unverified stories in order to get us health care? Are you being SERIOUS????

[LaurenG]

109. No Obama and Hillary's plans are similar, neither is great

they BOTH need to rework the plan. Another hint, people do not like having their wages garnished by politicians.

[catgirl]

125. Clinton spun the tragic death of this woman.

Clinton and you.

[Zhade]

142. CLINTON LIED ABOUT THE MOTHER BEING TURNED AWAY, WHICH DIDN'T HAPPEN.

NT!

[Zhade]

143. dupe

NT!

[NJmaverick]

55. Her staff tried to verify it and were unable to do so

It's been my experience when you can't verify a story, there's a good possible that the reason is that it isn't true. So Hillary is guilty of being irresponsible and showing you shouldn't trust what she tells you.

[Erin Elizabeth]

57. Ack! That's even worse!

So they couldn't verify it and she just went with it anyway. Smart move!

[NJmaverick]

66. That goes to show the sort of sound judgement we can expect

Judgment is a very important trait, in a President

[tammywammy]

162. Agreed!

[bowens43]

58. yep, with hillary it's always someone else's fault.

She really is pathetic.

[kevinmc]

62. If She cannot have small stuff checked out before she blabs it as fact ....

why should anyone believe she would not just take any nonsense given to her as President and blab that as fact .... we already have a Dumbass in the White House who does that we don't need another one in there.

[NJmaverick]

65. She did try and have it checked, only they couldn't verify it

[kevinmc]

73. well then it never should have been used ...

kinda like yellowcake from Niger never should have been used in the SOTU Speech Dumbass gave. If you can't be trusted on the information you give out you cannot be the Leader of this country. ... well you can be... but you will never have the trust you need to lead it.

[BlooInBloo]

77. It's obvious to anyone who cares in the least about the truth.

[NJmaverick]

89. Pretty much it

She shows she lacks the proper judgement to lead this Country

[anigbrowl]

81. If that's true, that shows even worse judgment

Hillary of all people should know that such stories are scrutinized. Look at how the GOP and their supporters did a full-on investigation of that little boy who was in the SCHIP ad last year, down to what kind of fittings they had in the family kitchen.

And she expects us to believe she's better prepared to face the 'pubs in the GE? :crazy:

[NJmaverick]

90. Very good point

I was thinking the same thing

[OzarkDem]

72. Yes, Hillary is responsible for their deaths, bad Hillary

Way to spin a story.

[kevinmc]

78. Talk about spinning ... you should get a job as her spokesman ....

I never said she was responsible for their deaths .... I said she couldn't be trusted to give accurate information. But some people eat up anything that a politician says as fact....




......you apparently are one of those people.

[Crunchy Frog]

88. Who the fuck said that?

I guess candidate supporters really are like their candidates in a lot of respects.

[Zhade]

144. CLINTON LIED ABOUT THE MOTHER BEING TURNED AWAY, WHICH DIDN'T HAPPEN.

NT!

[ekwhite]

168. What?

Who has said that Hillary was responsible for their deaths? :wtf: Hillary Clinton mis-spoke based on poorly vetted information. I have argued with Obama supporters who call it lying, I most certainly will argue with a Clinton supporter who is spinning to the point of lying.

[anonymous171]

83. She was misled. Just like when she voted for the IWR.

[catgirl]

126. Well said!!

[SoCalDem]

84. Gee, there's that "bad information" again.. Just like george gets

why am I not surprised..

[Milo_Bloom]

86. And bush was told Iraq had WMDs

[redqueen]

93. I agree with you.

It wasn't the best idea to just take the guy's word for it, though, obviously.

[Maribelle]

94. The saddest part in this story is that the hospital went and exposed the identity

of one of its patients and the medical treatment this patient received.

I would guess this hospital fractured a lot of HIPAA laws as they made themselves part of the story. I hope their crimes are prosecuted.

[OzarkDem]

104. Yes, but now they're clamming up about the details

of offering proof of insurance or that the woman had access to the care she needed. Citing patient privacy.

I hope the family sues the pants off them.

[TLM]

119. They can't release any details that have not already been made public

Funny you had no problem with Hillary talking about a patient's private treatment details, but when the hospital points out the truth that they did not deny any care, you scream and cry that they care braking the law.


LOL!!!! This spin is pathetic, like the Iraqi defense minister, just deny deny deny.


If hill was caught on tape smackign a baby, you'd blame the baby then deny hillary even has arms.

[ekwhite]

169. So you are accusing them of violating HIPAA

Then you accuse them of clamming up on the details? That doesn't even make sense.

[anigbrowl]

122. Not True.

http://mydailysentinel.com/articles/2008/04/04/news/news00.txt The Daily Sentinel of Pomeroy, Ohio revealed her identity, because her death made news last August.

[ORDem]

100. Technically you are correct, but on the heels of the Tuzla lie, this doesn't go well for her

in the MSM I'm afraid.

:dem:

[OzarkDem]

105. There wasn't a Tuzla lie

and the Obama swiftboating tactics are making me think the Democratic Party should disown him.

[TLM]

118. LOL No Tuzla lie?

So she did dodge sniper fire?

So now you are calling Hillary a liar, since hill has since retracted her lie about running from snipers.

[Zhade]

145. You're delusional. The video proves you wrong.

You fail.

Again.

[Umbram]

171. If HRC told her supporters the Earth was flat, some would believe it. (nt)

[NeedleCast]

110. She only repeated a lie without checking the facts

Gotcha


(P.S. It's still a lie, even if she's only repeating it).

[apocalypsehow]

113. Either she lied or she failed to make sure her facts were straight before she opened her mouth.

That makes her either a knowing liar or an incompetent manager of her affairs. Either/or, take your pick.

Gee, that's just the sort of President I want answering the phone at three a.m., alrighty...:eyes:

[thewiseguy]

116. Yes I know! She misspoke again...

[FightingIrish]

129. Was his name Curveball?

[Zhade]

131. Oh, so she just repeated an unconfirmed story that tarnished others' reputations?

Yeah, that's sooo much better!

[Maine-ah]

133. I'm not going to be one that said she lied.

However, you would think that someone running for president would be careful of the things that they say, and to always make sure what they're retelling is the truth

I personally would like to have a president in office that is actually going to do the research and have the proper and true facts before they make any decision. If she can't even do that, or her staff can't even do that, I'd rather she not be in the White House.

[tabasco]

135. Clinton didn't lie! Now that IS newsworthy!

Congrats Hillary! See if you can do it again! :toast:

[DemGa]

139. The Obamas care only about the smear attack

They would call Hillary a liar and every other filthy name until she is destroyed (not all, most)-- then move merrily on with their fraudulent "hope and change."

I cannot distinguish them from the right-wing attackers with whom they are aligned.

[Zhade]

146. CLINTON LIED ABOUT THE MOTHER BEING TURNED AWAY, WHICH DIDN'T HAPPEN.

NT!

[BlueIdaho]

It depends...

on what the meaning of is... is

Can you see why folks find the Clintons brand of honesty just a little hard to swallow - its just too cute by half.

[BlueIdaho]

141. delete

Weird - third double post this week... sorry!

[Zhade]

147. CLINTON LIED ABOUT THE MOTHER BEING TURNED AWAY, WHICH DIDN'T HAPPEN.

NT!

[ekwhite]

149. True enough

But her campaign should have checked the story out. The Clinton campaign is very poorly run. How can she make the case that she is the better candidate?

[mudesi]

155. How is it possible for people to make these excuses?

And they say Obama people are like a "cult".

:eyes;

[EffieBlack]

157. So, will we stop hearing that Obama "lied" about his family's Kennedy connection, which he had been

told by his relatives?

[donheld]

167. Do you, AGirl, believe Hillary has ever lied about anything?

[DemVet]

173. Clinton supporters....

...you will never be able to convince the Oba-maniacs ANYTHING positive concerning Hillary. They are just too filled with hate and loathing for a couple (Bill and Hillary) that they had unbound admiration for (if they are true Democrats, that is...I personally doubt it of some) just seven or less years ago.

Let them stew in their own hatred...I'll just be Senator Obama would be proud of them. :sarcasm:

[Name removed]

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