Google shows Dean-supporters need to admit for once, he was wrong

[Bombtrack]

Like

ttp://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,42915,00.html

Bush Makes Round of Farm States

Bush, tracking the transport routes of agricultural products and equipment, followed one of the combines built at the John Deere factory down the Mississippi River and west to Springfield, MO , where he spoke with farmers who use the machines at a feed mill. On Tuesday, he will speak at the port of New Orleans, where the grain the farmers grow is shipped abroad. Bush says increased trade is a matter of economic security and improved international relations

http://www.ci.watsonville.ca.us/information/Agriculture.html#top10

Top 10 Farm States in Billions of Dollars
California - 17.9
Texas - 12.1
Iowa - 10.2
Nebraska - 8.8
Illinois - 7.5
Kansas - 6.9
Minnesota - 6.0
Florida - 6.1
Wisconsin - 5.4
North Carolina - 4.9

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0511-01.htm

But Bush could not ignore the bill's importance with a view to November's legislative elections, in which farm states like Arkansas , South Dakota, Georgia, Iowa, Minnesota and Missouri could hold the key to overturning the Democratic Party's one-vote majority in the Senate.

-----------------

unless you missed his lie about being the only candidate from a
farm state;

A google search for "Farm states" did not produce any top links with Vermont, other than those about this recent Dean story, but it did return 5 other candidates states

That of John Edwards, Dick Gephardt, Carol Mosley Braun, and Wesley Clark

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jonnyblitz]

2. oh..

its the "he lied about being the only candidate from a farming state " or something like that. :shrug:

[papau]

53. Vermont economy is mostly farm - more so than other states - so

where is the lie.

110,000 farms is not as big a deal for Gep (even if more than the 6000 in Vermont) if industry is a larger part of his states economy.

Shall we compare to a Reagan "killer trees" where the numbers were 10 to 1 in the other direction, or Reagan's "country of Taiwan" that require a diplomatic mission by Bush to calm down? As if Bush 43 will lose the election because his opponent speaks better or avoids statements that can be "mis-interpreted".

[sandnsea]

75. Manufacturing is bigger in Vermont

Hotel sales is bigger in Vermont. The federal government is bigger in Vermont. I don't think farming is even in the top ten.

http://www.bea.doc.gov/bea/regional/gsp/

[Bombtrack]

83. 3 percent of all industry

.

[Padraig18]

63. So, you agree with me that it IS obtuse?

I find that very interesting, in light of something that just happened...

[papau]

73. What happened? - and yes Dean speaks with a lot of background

ground info that is assumed - a problem I also have so I can relate.

But I am not running.

But where is the proper mix between so much background you never get to the point, and a rousing speech?

I suspect in the primaries he needs less background as we are all on the same page for most things - but he will need to be less obtuse in the GE - or do like the GOP always do - have a handout for the media that explains all the references.

[jonnyblitz]

80. yes,

I did Paddy. very much so.

[babzilla]

4. the suspense is killing me

I'm sure the point will be along soon.

[BeyondGeography]

5. What he's saying

is Howard is not the only candidate from a farm state, just like he's not the only true Democrat, the only candidate to have opposed the war...

Oh, forget about it.

[Bombtrack]

6. did you miss his lie about being the only candidate from a

farm state.

A google search for "Farm states" did not produce any top links with Vermont, other than those about this recent Dean story, but it did return 5 other candidates states

[Padraig18]

8. I see.

IOW, you are .

I can beat one, too, just like this:

[Cocoa]

10. it's back!

the propagandistic, repetitive, homophobic, anti-woman, anti-ballet, anti-dem graphic that Rush Limbaugh loves so much.

I thought it was gone for good.

not to mention the non sequitur.

[Walt Starr]

9. Could I see a link to this alleged lie?

Thank you.

[One Taste]

12. Here ya go

http://mensnewsdaily.com/archive/newswire/nw03/talonnews/1203/123103-dean2.htm

"Dean (D-VT), according to the Post-Crescent in Wisconsin, said, "I understand farm issues. Nobody else comes from a farm state."

Gephardt (D-MO), who hails from a state with 110,000 farms, took exception to that statement from Dean who hails from a state with only 6,600 farms."

[Walt Starr]

13. Very funny

Ya know, the link you gave me alleges the following:

according to the Post-Crescent in Wisconsin

Yet I cannot find the article on the Post-Crescent in Wisconsin site.

When you link to the original source on this one, I'll believe it. Somehow that site you linked does not strike me as a credible source.

on edit: Damn, one of the most right wing sites I've ever encountered!

[Bombtrack]

17. question is, are Dean-supporters incapable of real Dean accountability

take a look at my response (post 16)

[Padraig18]

24. About like some other supporters, I suppose.

Not naming names, mind you...

[Cheswick2.0]

33. OMG, I could never vote for Dean now. Someone says he said ..........

he is the only candidate from a farm state! Forget thousands of Dead Iraqis! How can we quibble about dead people now that we know about the tragedy of "the alleged FARM STATE LIE"?

:cry: <----- see my shock and awe? (I always cry when I am shocked and awed)

[Bombtrack]

has Dean said that thousands of Iraqi's died so he could be the nominee?

I mean, that wouldn't surprise me, but this proclamation surely went underreported

[Padraig18]

41. LOL!

again, aren't they?

:hi:

[Trajan]

34. You present an impossible scenario ...

A 'perfectly truthful' human being ....

and then insult those who do not go along ....

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm ....

To err is human ... Dean is human ....

To insult his supporters for HIS humanity is simply lame .....

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

31. Did you really look?

“I understand farm issues. Nobody else comes from a farm state. I understand health issues because I’m a doctor. I know how to get jobs because I was a governor for almost 12 years.”
http://www.wisinfo.com/postcrescent/news/archive/local_13929087.shtml

[Bombtrack]

16. Candidate packs the house

http://www.wisinfo.com/postcrescent/news/archive/local_13929087.shtml

“I understand farm issues. Nobody else comes from a farm state. I understand health issues because I’m a doctor. I know how to get jobs because I was a governor for almost 12 years.”

[Walt Starr]

54. Thanks for the credible source

Your first source was not believebale because it is an incredibly right wing site.

[Bombtrack]

65. Where?When did I post something from an incredibly right wing site?

You need to reread my posts.

[Walt Starr]

69. Sorry, confused you with ptm16

n/t

[polpilot]

21. We need an Trivia Political Pursuit site...or Fun Farm Facts...or a

Winning with Whining site

Dean '04...

[HFishbine]

39. North Carolina is hardly a farm state

What a lousey way to measure what is and is not a farm state. California is THE farm state? Only 20% of NC's economic activity is from farming. No matter how that may rank it in terms of total farm production, that hardly makes it a farm state.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

3. Won't happen. Facts don't matter.

[Lefta Dissenter]

7. Well, obviously, we need to

KILL GOOGLE!!!!!!!!!!!!


edited, because bold is more fun.

[ErasureAcer]

11. But, but, but...Braun, Edwards, Clark and Gephardt aren't MAJOR candidates

So Dean didn't lie. :eyes:

[Trajan]

15. As a Democrat ....

who would support EITHER Dean OR Clark OR Gephardt OR Edwards OR ...

WHY demand Dean be called a 'liar' ??? ...

Perhaps he simply misspoke ??? ...

Sheeeesh: ... as one who leans toward Wesley Clark, I must say I despise this kind of viciousness .... even against Dean, whom I do not prefer ....

WHY be so ugly about such a small claim ????

[Feanorcurufinwe]

18. When someone 'misspeaks' about one thing

and then 'misspeaks' about something else, and then 'misspeaks' about something else, and then repeats it, and then 'misspeaks' about something else, and then 'misspeaks' about something else, and then 'misspeaks' about something else, and then repeats it, and then 'misspeaks' about something else, and then 'misspeaks' about something else, and then 'misspeaks' about something else, and then 'misspeaks' about something else

I get suspicious.

Besides, the thread starter is not asking Dean supporters to say he is a liar, just to admit, for once, he was wrong.

[Bombtrack]

23. Dean to me is the O'Reilly of the democratic party

and I hate them both equally. There should be a picture of them in the dictionary next to the word blowhard

[Bombtrack]

19. I didn't demand he be called a liar, I want to see if they're capable of

saying he was wrong, because they seem to be the biggest apologists since the new "pro-McCarthy" people on the right

[mbali]

35. But you don't understand

calling Dean wrong means you're calling him a liar.

If you say that Dean is not the only white politician talking about race to white audiences or that his confederate flag remark was misguided, means you're calling him a racist.

If you say that you don't think Dean can beat Bush, you're playing into Rove's hands.

Dean is infallible and your failure to acknowledge that fact means that you are a Bush-lite, cockroach supporting DLCer.

Get it now?

[Padraig18]

45. I demand ham, eggs and some wheat toast!

Do you see me getting it, Bombtrack? :eyes:

[Lefta Dissenter]

22. it's the pattern

that is so disturbing. Dean says a lot of things that later need retraction, clarification or apology. He also says a lot of things that sound arrogant. He minimizes the candidacies of other Dems, and has appeared to base his own campaign on misrepresenting himself and the other dems.

I don't feel the need to see him called a liar, I just feel the need for an honest Democratic nominee and President.

That's MY feeling, at least...

[ErasureAcer]

30. he didn't mis-speak about Kucinich

he put out an ad saying he was the only candidate against the war in NH a couple months ago.

then he apoligized...as if he didn't know Kucinich, Sharpton, Braun and Clark(dunno if he was in the race yet) opposed the war.

So basically Dean got caught. As he had no other choice but to apoligize.

All is great...or so we thought...but then he runs an ad in NH claiming the exactly same thing...

"the only candidate to oppose the war" was the big headline in BOLD letters.

How the fuck is he going to apoligize for something and then do it again?

Dean didn't mis-speak...he is blatantly lying to get ahead of the pack.

sheesh...as someone who is concerned about this country...can't I demand a little FREAKING honesty from a potential candidate to be president of the united states...

is that asking too freaking much?

HELL NO!

Dean's lies piss me off.

[HereSince1628]

14. I recognized it as a silly thing to say immediately

and I'm caught in my support between Dean and Kucinich (although I've done volunteer work for Kerry...don't ask).

My immediate thought was that Vermont was a tourism state, but I saw no point in pursuing a clear mistaken thing to say.

Figures don't lie but ... you know. If you defined farm states as states whose economy is dominated by agriculture the above list in Bombtrack's post would look very different. I would not be surprised to see Dean's statement defended in such a way, perhaps even successfully, but I'm not gonna bother to invest the time to check that out.

Because,I am willing to admit that it wasn't a smart thing to say. In many other ways he could have said that he believes he can demonstate that he is farm friendly and he believes he is the best choice.

[Padraig18]

28. "The most rural state" would have been a better choice of words.

But it's a silly damned 'issue'... :eyes:

[Feanorcurufinwe]

44. Another BS statistic

I've heard this many times but I'd like to know where it comes from. Vermont the 'most rural state'? What exactly is that supposed to mean? Alot of my family lives in Vermont -- I live in Montana. The reality is that Montana is alot more rural than Vermont. I guess it's like the old saying, there are three kinds of lies: "Lies, damned lies, and statistics."

[Bombtrack]

51. Alaska makes Vermont seem like Jersey

. I still haven't seen a "he was wrong" from any of the open minded progressives that populate the Dean "movement" here

[Padraig18]

56. If you could step away from Kerry for a minute..

... and look at it objectively, you'd see what a ridiculous 'issue' this is. I sat at lunch today with a bunch of farmers, and they could give a rat's ass what Dean said; they did, however, find it absolutely HILARIOUS that the other candidate's have their panties in a wad about it.

Wonder why your candidate is imploding? Wonder no more--- it's because America is laughing out loud at him.

[sandnsea]

77. I'd be happy to explain it to them

Lie 3,349. I know farmers, my grandfather was a farmer, a Missouri farmer. If I laid out the lies, they'd get it. And they wouldn't be laughing.

[dsc]

20. Well let's see I think of CA and IL

when I think of farm states all the time. And never do I think of the Dakotas, Minnesota, or Wisconsin.

[Lefta Dissenter]

26. well thank goodness you're not

going to be my president, with so little knowledge of the economies of so many states! :)

[Padraig18]

36. As an Illinoisan:

We're not a 'rural state', IMO, when compared to NE, SD, ND, etc. ; the largest part of our economy IS agriculture, but we are a very diverse state, economically. :)

[wndycty]

25. Google is controlled by Rove. . .

. . .I don't know why you think that any thing that shows Dean to be untruthful should be considered objective.

[Scott Lee]

42. no no, it's controlled by Satan. An angel told me.

[Capn Sunshine]

27. THE HORSE IS DEAD FOR GODS SAKE

Only at DU would someone beat it for an extra two days.

What, Night of The Living Dead is you favorite movie?
Is this why this seems okay to you ultra microparsers?

Doesn't anyone actually WORK on their candidates campaign?

[Padraig18]

32. For future refernce:

http://www.btinternet.com/~tonyrichardson/ horse.gif (remove the space)

:hi:

[Scott Lee]

37. I detect another entry in the "poop" Hall of Fame coming soon

Of course, this little canard will have to be repeated a few dozen more times to make it there.

But it will.

[Padraig18]

46. They keep the URLs on a Rolodex.

Every time their candidate's campaign implodes again, they copy and paste an 'oldie but goody'. :P

[Scott Lee]

49. It would be easier if they just stuck them on the macro keys

Wouldn't it? That way it's just F2.....F1......F4,F4,F4....F2......

Hell you wouldn't even have to break for lunch!

[Padraig18]

50. Shhhhhhhhh!

Don't give them ideas, Scott! :P

[Monte Carlo]

40. Some of us have jobs.

And don't have time to donate to campaigns.

[retyred]

43. A horse is dead?

Can I beat it too?


retyred in fla
“Good-Night Paul, Wherever You Are”
So I read this book

[Padraig18]

47. Sure! Go ahead!

:P

[KaraokeKarlton]

38. The amount of dollars means nothing you know

What matters is whether or not farming is one of the top state industries or not. In Vermont, farming is in the top 3 industries with manufacturing and tourism. As for Arkansas, isn't most of their "farming"/agriculture from "tree farming"?

[Bombtrack]

48. well at least 2 media outlets at the opposite ends of the pol spectrum

as well as the only table easily searchable identified those states as farm states.

Just because they actually have some complexity, and couldn't be mistaken for Canadian provinces or ski-resorts, does not automatically make whatever howard Dean doesn't want to be a farm state, not a farm state.

[KaraokeKarlton]

57. It's not going to work...

nice try, though.

Apparently you don't understand the way industry ratings work. I'm pretty sure every state has some farms, so by your argument all states would be "farm states". States with the massive corporate beef farms and slaughter houses fall under farming as well, and they bring in massive amounts of revenue and end up quite high on the list. However, that kind of agriculture/farming has a very different set of issues than small family farms do. Both Vermont and Iowa share the small family farm issues. North Carolina have a lot of corporate Tobacco farmers. Again, that's a different set of issues. Braun, as much as I like her, is not a major candidate and stands no chance whatsoever of getting the nomination.

So, both Vermont and Iowa are VERY similar in that small family farming is one of the leading industries of both states, and it is and has always been one of the MOST important state issues. Dean does have a much better understanding of Iowa's farming issues than anyone else running. It can't be denied or explained away by simply posting a link that shows the profits of corporate beef farms and slaughter houses.

[Leilani]

62. Have you ever

had New Jersey tomatoes or New Jersey sweet corn? Yum!

This is the funniest discussion I have seen at DU.

[Bombtrack]

67. it actually isn't a leading industry in Vermont. It makes up 3 percent of

industry

[Padraig18]

59. This is the MOST ridiculous 'issue' yet.

And there have been some REAL doozies, so far. :tinfoilhat:

[donco6]

52. who cares. eom

[Bombtrack]

55. when a big group of apologists make up 99.9 percent of a campaign

at least on the biggest dem message board. That should be a cause of concern. They havn't proven me wrong yet.

[Padraig18]

58. YOUR candidate looks ridiculous.

So does Gephart. America is laughing out loud at how they have their panties in a wad about a basic "Who gives a rat's ass?" 'issue'. Wonder why your candidate is imploding? Wonder no more... :shrug:

[farmbo]

60. Google shows: Bombtrack needs to get a life :)

Get in a car and DRIVE TO VERMONT!

You will see farms. And cows...lots of cows.

It is their highest grossing industry-- by far.

Valerie Plame's outing by a political operative-- THAT is a campaign issue. Whether Vermont is a bigger "farm state" than Missouri is NOT a campaign issue.

And, respectfully, please quit calling Howard Dean a liar.

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Shanty Oilish]

64. Say it again, brother!

Say it loud! :)

[Bombtrack]

66. It's whether it's the ONLY farm state, not a bigger one

which it isn't.

And farming and agriculture only make up 3 percent of Vermonts overall industries

[Padraig18]

68. Depends on how you define 'farm state', doesn't it?

:shrug:

[Bombtrack]

70. Arkansas has a larger percentage of it's industry within farming than

vermont. Those are the facts.

Every candidate has more net farms and farm revenue than their state than Dean, and Clark has a larger percentage of his state, almost a 4th more within agriculture more than Vermont.

[Padraig18]

71. Links? Citations? Proof? n/t

[Bombtrack]

79. not that your ever going to admit Dean said anything wrong, but here

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/

click on any state

click on:
(Browse more data sets for _____) above right hand side of table

click on:
Economic characteristics

scroll down table for
INDUSTRY
Agriculture, forestry, fishing and hunting, and mining

here is what you will find. Vermont isn't doesn't have a dominating farm industry as a percentage of industry and it's well beaten by Arkansas, and not way far ahead of NC

here are the percentages
CT .4
NY .6
IL 1.1
OH 1.1
NC 1.6
MO 2.2
VT 3.0
AR 3.7
IO 4.4

[papau]

74. Times Argus gives most rural numbers every year - and Vermont "wins"

just about every year (they just recently got more people than cows into the state - about mid 500 thousand for each, but cows have dropped of late! - and you can not find a state capital that has fewer folks than the 8000 in Monpelier.

I'd be interested in the link to the data that shows Ark more rural than Vermont on an economic basis.

[Bombtrack]

76. he didn't say his state was most rural, he said he was the only

candidate from a farm state.

[Guaranteed]

72. What I think Dean actually said was that he was the only candidate from

a "marmot" state. "MARMOT," people. :+

[Capn Sunshine]

78. This just in--HORSE STILL DEAD

film at eleven.

And how was YOUR day?

[windansea]

81. is the Soviet Union a farm state??

:evilgrin:

[mzmolly]

82. Kudos to you Bombtrack for wording this delicate issue in such a

non-inflamatory manner. :toast:

"Dean supporters need to admit (for once) that Dean is wrong."

you make it found so charming really.

No wonder a thread of this nature has survived the scrutiny of DU's moderating team. Only such an artful characterization could manage getting across the point, while remaining sooo respectful. Much appreciation/humiliation from this *wrong* Dean supporter my new friend. :hi:

[Bombtrack]

84. well you people are obviously incapable of critism towards dean

giving or receiving, I'm sure there are a few, but they obviously aren't here

[EarlG]

85. Inflammatory

"Google shows Dean-supporters need to admit for once, he was wrong."

We're trying to foster decent discussion here. I know we're not doing very well, but at least people could make an effort.

Locking.