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Obama's quite good when he gets smacked around a little bit

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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 07:52 PM
Original message
Obama's quite good when he gets smacked around a little bit
I love the tone tonight; fire in the belly, dripping with contempt for establishment politicians like McCain and Clinton and their bullshit. He does tend to get into a comfort zone because he's so confident in himself. When they see an opening they have to strike, but, watch out, the counterpunch often comes back twice as hard.
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LisaM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
1. Dripping with contempt certainly sums him up.
At least in my opinion.

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thevoiceofreason Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. OK Lisa, this one is for you now that you are an official sound-biter
This was just added to the Huffington Post article that started this mess:

OBAMA: So, it depends on where you are, but I think it's fair to say that the places where we are going to have to do the most work are the places where people are most cynical about government. The people are mis-appre...they're misunderstanding why the demographics in our, in this contest have broken out as they are. Because everybody just ascribes it to 'white working-class don't wanna work -- don't wanna vote for the black guy.' That's...there were intimations of that in an article in the Sunday New York Times today - kind of implies that it's sort of a race thing.


Here's how it is: in a lot of these communities in big industrial states like Ohio and Pennsylvania, people have been beaten down so long. They feel so betrayed by government that when they hear a pitch that is premised on not being cynical about government, then a part of them just doesn't buy it. And when it's delivered by -- it's true that when it's delivered by a 46-year-old black man named Barack Obama, then that adds another layer of skepticism.

But -- so the questions you're most likely to get about me, 'Well, what is this guy going to do for me? What is the concrete thing?' What they wanna hear is -- so, we'll give you talking points about what we're proposing -- to close tax loopholes, you know, roll back the tax cuts for the top 1 percent. Obama's gonna give tax breaks to middle-class folks and we're gonna provide health care for every American.

But the truth is, is that, our challenge is to get people persuaded that we can make progress when there's not evidence of that in their daily lives. You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

Um, now these are in some communities, you know. I think what you'll find is, is that people of every background -- there are gonna be a mix of people, you can go in the toughest neighborhoods, you know working-class lunch-pail folks, you'll find Obama enthusiasts. And you can go into places where you think I'd be very strong and people will just be skeptical. The important thing is that you show up and you're doing what you're doing.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mayhill-fowler/obama-no-s...

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LisaM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. I've read the comments many times.
I'm from a small town and you know what? The people there aren't bitter, probably are no more religious than people in the big cities, and I only knew one family where they owned guns and their father was a cop.

I would like to HEAR this speech, not just read it, to hear the tone of voice Obama used.

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thevoiceofreason Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #13
24. It was conversational
He was asked about his difficulty in connecting with small town midwestern folks.

Where are you (generally, I don't want to come across all creepy)?

If you are like me, in Texas, the small towns are still doing ok, primarily because of the booming oil industry. In the midwest, things suck. The government leaders for 25 years have been promising doing something to return prosperity to the rust belt. 25 years later, nothing. I'd be bitter as hell if I were a skilled machinist working at Wal-Mart. What Barack said is that he understood how these folks who had been left behind and ignored by their government would focus on the stable things in their life -- their right to bear arms, worship freely. etc. At times, this focus turns to being anti - anti immigrant, etc. (thanks Lou Dobbs). You really can't be backing up Hillary on this one -- this is an absolute joke.
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LisaM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. I live in Seattle but am from a small town in Michigan
that has been hit hard by the loss of jobs, first to the south, then over the border. I've always hated NAFTA because I grew up around so many union people, but I first saw the drain of jobs occur under Reagen, as corporations gained power and began to work for their shareholders.

I also spend a lot of weekends at a small town in Washington state. They are very liberal there (though they vote in a weird, maverick way - in 1992 they went for Perot, but in the 2000 primary, for Nader. Go figure).
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ampad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #24
29. Just more faux outrage from Hill supporters
Honestly, calling Obama condescending and elitist on this issue just tells you all you need to know about them. What was Hillary when as Obama put it voted for the credit card based bankruptcy bill? What was she? I tell you she sure wasn't looking out for the little people she is courting now. Where was the outrage and where is the outrage from that. Half of these Hillary supporters are fucking hypocrites when it comes to this issue. Obama said something that was taken out of context that was true. Hey, I'm from a small town as well and I can say this is true. I guess some of the hill supporters have never read What's the matter with Kansas which is required reading for every progressive IMO. As I said before Obama said something taken out of context Hillary had the power with a vote that she utilized to help keep those "bitter" people down financially. It doesn't matter to Hillary supporters though because it was Hillary, she is a girl, stop picking on her. It's crap like this that makes it very hard for me to support her if she were to magically win. The hypocrisy and faux outrage from her and her supporters is embarrassing and suffocating to the Democratic party.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #29
41. hilary and the m$$$$m better watch out what door they
open..there just might be a big ol' Obama Boomerang waiting on the other side.

These comments that hilary made remind me of when she ran out in front of the cameras when John Kerry needed Dem backup and instead got Brutus. She's a snivling, small minded politician, who ain't nothin' but bush league.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #13
34. yeah? well that hardly makes you an authority on all small towns
I live in a very small town in a very rural and poor area. Practically everyone owns a gun and yes, a lot of people are bitter and worn down by adversity. It does often do that. It doesn't mean that that's all they are, but a lot of folks here are definitely worn down by the grind.
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LisaM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. People are bitter and worn down in Detroit, too
It's not something that is endemic to small towns. It's an economic thing. There are people in Seattle who are bitter and worn down.
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mamalone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #34
54. Small town gal here...
and my experience echoes yours very closely. People here are very tired and yes.. bitter. They will vote for whoever spouts the "right" type of spiritual or patriotic language (and hey, if the candidate combines the two, then all the better) They will vote in direct opposition to their own self interest in the name of what they feel is a greater good... for example defense of the unborn or preservation of the family. Mostly they are wonderful, caring, deeply selfless people and that's precisely why they can be manipulated in this way.

It's sad, really....
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Frank Booth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #13
55. I'm from a small town, everyone (read: everyone) owned guns, and most were religious.
Most were also bitter at the lack of chances they had to improve their lives, and many turned to alcohol to try to get away from the bitterness and hopelessness. They were not bad people, in fact many were very good people, but life is tough in rural America these days.

You may not like Obama since he's a bit of a realist and he's not afraid to talk about the fact that this country has left a lot of proud Americans behind. But someone needs to confront these issues, and I, for one, hope that our next president's not too spooked by how Fox News will skew it to do so.
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. Because what this country needs is back stabbing and smoky room deals
as opposed to taking one on the chin and firing back?
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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. Your opinion sucks.
At least in my opinion.

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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
2. Chicago politics ain't beanbag!
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. !
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #2
45. got a better one from illinois
"i smell the meat cooking" paul douglas comment about election time...
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 07:55 PM
Response to Original message
3. "I'm skinny but tough"
Edited on Fri Apr-11-08 07:55 PM by Yael
He's a Chicago boy. They don't grow 'em any tougher than that.
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LisaM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. He's from HAWAII
He may live in Chicago NOW, but he isn't FROM there!

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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. He was raised in Hawaii
He became an adult in Chicago -- when life lessons are learned.

I can appreciate "All I need to know I learned in Kindergarten" and like works -- and can also appreciate that GD-P is like JR High School on most days, but beyond my character being formed in the formative years, life's lessons came AFTER I moved out of Mon & Dad's house...
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LisaM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #14
21. I thought he went to college in California,
then New York, and then Harvard Law School. It's news to me that he became an adult in Chicago.
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #21
30. Wiki to the rescue, again.
Following high school, Obama moved to Los Angeles, where he studied at Occidental College for two years. He then transferred to Columbia University in New York City, where he majored in political science with a specialization in international relations.

Obama received his Bachelor of Arts degree from Columbia in 1983, then worked at Business International Corporation and New York Public Interest Research Group before moving to Chicago in 1985 to take a job as a community organizer. He entered Harvard Law School in 1988.


In 1985, Barack Obama (or B. Hussein Obama, if you prefer) would have been 24.

Personally, I didn't begin to really "understand" life until I was 30. I am now 40.

Perhaps you were an early bloomer...
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LisaM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. No, but I do consider 24 to be an adult.
A young adult, granted. But still an adult.

I personally don't see him as heavily identifying with any one place - both an asset, and a hindrance, I guess. An asset, because he can't be typecast and has a varied background; a hindrance, becuase it makes it difficult to identify with him.
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. This I can appreciate
I am a migrant child, living in the northeast (US), the southeast (US) and the middle east (world).

That is not for everyone, and does cause problems. It is being the jack of all trades and the master of none (bad example, but I know you get my drift).

Thanks for sharing that -- good insight.
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LisaM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. Thanks, I was trying to phrase it in a way that didn't sound critical
Because I didn't mean it to be.
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. No offense taken and the insight is appreciated
Sometimes I forget that perception is key and we all come from different places.

Good weekend to you. :hi:
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LisaM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. And you!
:hi:
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Starbucks Anarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #11
26. Then Hillary isn't from New York.
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. LOL!!
Edited on Fri Apr-11-08 08:23 PM by Yael
Okie, lets do some figgering on this one.

Obama graduates college and moved to Chicago to be a community organizer, later to run for state office.

Hillary is about to end her reign as first lady and purchases land in NY in order to justify a senate run.

Your take on any apparent differences here?
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Starbucks Anarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. No kidding.
Not to mention that Arkansas, Pennsylvania, New York and Illinois are always trumpeted as Hillary's "home states," yet somehow, Obama is "from Hawaii."

:rofl:
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #31
43. And what's wrong with being from
Hawai'i? B-)
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Starbucks Anarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. It's all right by me.
:D
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uberblonde Donating Member (993 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #28
33. Obama was smoking pot in high school...
While Clinton was babysitting the children of migrant farm workers.

Yeah, I see a difference.
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. And while in HS I smoked pot while babysitting immigrants
Whats yer point -- that she didn't inhale, or that she didn't get caught?
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #33
49. I can see you're sucked in by hilary's lies..
Obama is in high school doing what high school students do and with hilary's record on lying about her adventures in Bosnia..I don't believe a word that pandering liar says..

"Why Hillarys Lies are Important"

- March 24, 2008, 9:53PM
Hillary Clinton has been caught in a series of lies and misrepresentations during the primary campaign. To some of her supporters, these lies may seem trivial and insignificant and even politics-as-usual. However, please consider the serious impact of these lies by placing them in the context of the past seven years of the Bush Administration and the legacy of expanded executive power that he leaves behind. In particular, consider the dangerous message that the Clinton campaign sends by employing similar tactics to achieve her political goals.

1. The Florida and Michigan Primaries / The Delegate Count
Hillary agreed to honor the DNCs decision to strip Florida and Michigan of its delegates after their primaries were moved up into January in express violation of the DNC rules. She did not change her position on the validity of these primaries until she found herself unexpectedly behind in the delegate count and desperately needed to claim the delegates that she had won in these unsanctioned contests. As her chances of winning the nomination became increasingly slim in recent weeks, we have been presented with threatening and desperate lines of reasoning for why these primary results should count as is. At the same time, Clinton and her surrogates continue to propose different metrics for determining who should win the nomination even though there is and has been a clearly defined process in place for several decades.

Please think about the implications of changing election rules after the fact. We have suffered through at least one stolen presidential election and the manipulation of untold numbers of Congressional and state elections through various vote tampering and voter intimidation schemes used by the Republicans and their allies. The American people (and especially Democratic voters) have lost faith in the integrity of the election process. The Clinton strategy to continually change the rules for determining the Democratic Party nominee sets a dangerous precedent that could lead to increasingly un-Democratic elections in the future if it is allowed to succeed. If anything, we need more transparency and methods of accountability in our elections in order to repair the damage done in recent years and to restore our confidence in the Government.

2. The Bosnia Fabrication / Exaggerated Experience Claims
Hillary fabricated a story about a dangerous, life-risking visit to Bosnia in order to gain stature as an experienced negotiator in international conflicts and war. While this type of embellishment can seem almost comical, it represents a willingness to distort reality in order to influence the public perception. This is the same type of distortion that the Bush administration used to justify the war in Iraq, although the magnitude of the lie is certainly on a different scale. The Bush administration falsified reports, cherry-picked intelligence, used unreliable sources, and employed fear-mongering tactics to convince the American public that our safety was at risk and as such, you were either with us or with the terrorists. The lies used by President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney are impeachable offenses and should be condemned by all Americans. Sadly, the Clinton campaign seems to have shown a shocking willingness to employ the same tactics to create a more favorable reality and to rely on divide-and-conquer rhetoric to weaken opposition. Her attempts to frighten the American people by conjuring up 3 AM phone calls are bad enough, but her vote of confidence in John McCain over Barack Obama should be seen as treason against the Democratic Party.

3. NAFTA
Hillary lied about her position on NAFTA and used her lies in a calculated way to influence the Ohio primary. Recently released White House documents confirm that Hillary had been an active proponent of NAFTA prior to its passage, and she has continued to support it publicly in her speeches and memoir. However, while campaigning in Ohio, she claimed to have been privately against NAFTA during the Clinton presidency and believes that it should be rewritten to protect American jobs and workers. This type of maneuvering is reminiscent of the behind-closed-doors policy-making that the Bush administration has used during the past seven years. Specifically, Bush and Cheney have made policy decisions without providing transparency to Congress or the public, and President Bush has repeatedly ignored the rule of law by issuing signing statements and disregarding the parts of the laws that he doesnt agree with. If we cannot trust Hillary to be truthful about her positions on critical legislative issues now, how can we trust that she will be truthful as president?

These are just three examples that illustrate the concerns we should have with a candidate who demonstrates a sense of entitlement to the nomination and is willing to lie, misrepresent, threaten, and divide in order to obtain the nomination. President Bush and the neoconservative movement have greatly harmed this country by the creation of an imperial-like presidency. This election is not just about whether a Democrat or Republican wins but if the checks and balances are restored to the three branches of government. The framers of the Constitution were in such fear of an imperial president that mechanisms for impeachment are prominently and explicitly included in the Constitution. If Hillary Clinton is willing to use lies and deceit to win the Democratic nomination, what assurances do we have that she will not continue to use them once she is president?
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/03/why-h ...

<snip>

"Her response to being caught lying to a military audience, when she invented a story about being under sniper fire in Bosnia, was to say it wasn't surprising she got some things wrong, seeing how she spoke millions of words every day. What a magnificent idea, that if you say lots of words some of them are bound to be fantastic lies. So if you listen carefully to horse-racing commentators they say things like "And it's Teddy's Boy still leading three furlongs out as they come up to the fourth last fence with Nip and Tuck two lengths behind by the way I fought a tiger once, punched it clean out and they're all safely over."

<lots more>
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/opinion/article3 ...

"It's not that lying to pad the resume, avoid Indictment or to advance her political fortune is anything new for Hillary Clinton. She famously said she was named after Sir Edmund Hillary (debunked); she told New Yorkers she was a Yankee fan when she lived in Chicago (debunked); she told rural New Yorkers that she was a "duck hunter" (debunked); she claimed that her daughter Chelsea was jogging around the World Trade Center at the time of the 9/11 attack (debunked by Chelsea herself.) And, those subpoenaed Rose Law billing records just happened to show up one day on a hallway table in the most monitored home in America!"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Debunking the latest Hillary lie: She started criticizing the war before Obama did.
Edited on Sat Apr-05-08 10:49 PM by NJSecularist
I know, I know, we've all lost track at the amount of lies she's told. But this one takes the cake.

Let's rewind back to April 21st, 2004:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/21/iraq.hillary /


"HILLARY: NO REGRET ON IRAQ VOTE"

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton said she is not sorry she voted for a resolution authorizing President Bush to take military action in Iraq despite the recent problems there but she does regret "the way the president used the authority."

"How could they have been so poorly prepared for the aftermath of the toppling of Saddam Hussein?" the New York Democrat asked Tuesday night on CNN's "Larry King Live."

"I don't understand how they had such an unrealistic view of what was going to happen."

April has become the deadliest month for U.S. forces in Iraq since the war began more than a year ago. The U.S.-led coalition faces insurrections on several fronts, including the Sunni Muslim stronghold of Fallujah, west of Baghdad, and the militia of a Shiite Muslim cleric in Najaf in the south.

To the disappointment of some antiwar liberals in her Democratic base, Clinton, the former first lady, voted in favor of the Iraq war resolution in October 2002.

"Obviously, I've thought about that a lot in the months since," she said. "No, I don't regret giving the president authority because at the time it was in the context of weapons of mass destruction, grave threats to the United States, and clearly, Saddam Hussein had been a real problem for the international community for more than a decade."


Let's fast forward to June 14, 2006.
http://www2.nysun.com/article/34404


Senator Clinton was met with loud booing, hissing, and protest chants during a speech at a conference of left-leaning Democrats yesterday when she repeated her view that American troops should stay the course in Iraq.

Mrs. Clinton called the Iraq war a "grotesque mistake" before adding "but we cannot bring the troops home until they make sure Iraq has a unified government," a comment that set off a round of raucous booing from all parts of the hall where the Washington conference of Campaign for America's Future, mostly made up of Democrats, was held.

"I do not think it is a smart strategy, either, for the president to continue with his open-ended commitment, which I think does not put enough pressure on the new Iraqi government," said Mrs. Clinton, as protesters stood up and began chanting "Bring the troops home, bring the troops home."

"Nor do I think it is smart strategy to set a date certain. I do not agree that that is in the best interests," she said. While some applauded Mrs. Clinton as she left the stage, a group of several dozen continued booing her until she had left the hall.

The trend of events are very clear. She supported the war until it was political suicide for a Democrat who wanted to win the Democratic nomination to do so.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5401107





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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #26
46. not many are claiming her here......
hell we have ronnie and lincoln...and maybe obama.

ok hillary too.....
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 07:55 PM
Response to Original message
4. Obama: "I'll be looking for your support and advice also Hillary...
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
6. that's because he is just naturally good and those attacking him are liars
frustrated angry assholes bitter over not being able to do what he can.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #6
51. Talk about
Bitter!
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knixphan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
9. Agreed!
Similar to when I play basketball, I always start out mild-mannered, and then there's the inevitable dirty foul by some idiot with a misplaced elbow to my mouth.

Then I'm there with my puffy lip for a second...and then the rush.

The righteous anger - it flows into my legs, my hands... and suddenly I'm playing like a pro, and extremely focused.

Don't piss a player off, you're just gonna bring out his A-game.
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. And he's got game
The line about McCain was especially good; "It took him three tries to figure out people were losing their homes and I'M out of touch?"
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 08:04 PM
Original message
Wait -- I thought our candidate was supposed to support and endorse McCain
as being "ready on day 1".

Now I'm confused again. :cry:
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 08:05 PM
Response to Original message
18. I know...just think how confused you'd be if it was 11 p.m. and you were 60
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. Indeed.
I might confuse poetry for sniper fire and throw my bookbag to protect my child.

Its been known to happen.

:shrug:
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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. That's not a bad analogy. Unless you have no A game and then...
...you start stammering, laughing and talking about angels dancing on the head of a pin.

  That donkey's got a KICK!

:kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick:

PB
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knixphan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. lol - nice!
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #9
23. great analogy
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Erin Elizabeth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #9
48. Yep. It's good to know he's great under pressure.
Great analogy.
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
16. It's surgical

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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
17. We need a president who performs well under fire- and we are going to get one!
n/t
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 08:06 PM
Response to Original message
19. It seems the "20 years" studying a master of the Jeremiad wasn't wasted.
I find it remarkable that the Clinton campaign didn't pick up on that little fact of "schooling" ... by a very good student.

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1776Forever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
25. Yes and it makes us stronger too! I said we need to be vigilant! Focus!!!
They (Clinton's/McCain/Corporatist/Repub's) want us to run from Obama!

WRONG!!!! We are not going to be fooled!!! NOT THIS TIME!!!!!!!!!!!

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knixphan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
36. image du jour
don't piss off the O.

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Erin Elizabeth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
47. Now THAT'S something I *really really really*
like about him!

Damn, I can't wait to see him debate McCain. That's gonna be AWESOME.
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
50. It was a THANG OF BEAUTEOUS BEAUTY !! K&R
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #50
52. It was, it was
I just watched it in the video forum. I am so excited
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supporter77 Donating Member (11 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-11-08 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
53. Obama Lied to the American People - Hillary never voted for the bankruptcy bill !!!!
Hillary Clinton never voted for the Brankruptcy Bill of 2005. Hillary Clinton was the sole Senator not voting on the bill, because that day Bill Clinton had heart surgery

From Senator Clinton's official statement on the bill:

This bankruptcy bill fundamentally fails to accord with the traditional purposes of bankruptcy, which recognize that we are all better off when hard-working people who have suffered financial catastrophe get a "fresh start" and a second chance to become productive and contributing members of society. With the passage of this legislation, which makes obtaining this fresh start more expensive and more difficult, we are ensuring that many responsible Americans will continue to be buried under mountains of debt, and unable to take back control and responsibility for their lives.


In the days before S.256 was finally brought to the floor Senator Clinton voted for every amendment which would have added consumer protections to the bankruptcy bill. Amendments which were repeatedly rejected by both the Republican majority and far too many Democrats. She even voted against cloture in an attempt to keep the final bill from coming to a vote at all.

Several commentors correctly noted that Hillary Clinton supported the earlier bill (although she voted for amendments adding consumer protections in that bill as well). She wasn't the only Democrat to change her position (voting for the 2001 bill and against the 2005 bill) and I'm not qualified to compare the differences between them.

However, several articles have discussed her change of position, including this recent article in the NYTimes.

For what it's worth, Democratic Senators Akaka, Cantwell, Dorgan, Feinstein, Leahy, Levin, Lieberman, Mikulski, Murray, Nelson (Fl), Schumer and Wyden switched in the same direction as Clinton. John Edwards, who also voted for the 2001 bill, suggested he would have switched his vote as well.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/08/08/clinton-and-the-bankruptcy-law/

http://jinchi.blogspot.com/2007/03/hillary-clinton-and-bankruptcy-bill-of.html


from the nyt.com article...

As first lady, Mrs. Clinton worked against the bill. She helped kill one version of it, then another version passed, which her husband vetoed. As a senator, in 2001, she voted for it, but it did not pass. When it came up again in 2005, she missed the vote because her husband was in the hospital, although she indicated she would have opposed it.


The bill popped up again 2001, which was Mrs. Clinton’s first year in the Senate. She worked with Republicans on it and was one of 36 Democrats who helped it pass the Senate, saying it had been improved from when she opposed it. Still, this version was vigorously opposed by consumer groups and unions, and ultimately did not become law.

Explaining Senator Clinton’s support for the bill in 2001, Phil Singer, a campaign spokesman, said, “She helped forge a compromise in the 2001 bill intended to ensure that custodial parents got child custody payments.” She opposed the bill later, he said, because “unfortunately, that provision was stripped from the 2005 legislation.”
The bill was always tricky for her because it divided her party as well as two opposing constituencies in New York: banking interests and the unions. Between 2000 and 2006, commercial banking interests gave Mrs. Clinton $685,000, according to www.opensecrets.org, the Web site of the Center for Responsive Politics. That is a fraction of the tens of millions of dollars she has raised. Banks ranked 13th in the list of industries that gave her contributions. (Her top contributors, by industry, were lawyers, who gave her $6.5 million over the same period.)

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/08/08/clinton-and-the-bankruptcy-law/


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