Obama said some stupid shit.

[mattclearing]

I'm an Obama supporter. It seems to me that Obama said something pretty stupid, implying that people 'cling' to guns or to religion for reasons other than the fact that they happen to be important to their way of life. That is a dumb, condescending thing to say for anyone, much less a presidential candidate.

I can understand if he said they VOTED guns or religion or what have you, because that would be correct, that people who don't believe in government are more likely to vote wedge issues like guns and abortion, because they already are relatively certain that no candidate is going to fix their community and make jobs magically appear. That wouldn't be nearly as offensive, and I would imagine (and the Clinton supporters will no doubt think I'm being incredibly generous with this) it's probably not far from what he meant to say, but unfortunately, that's not how it came out.

Everything else he said, about trade and the attitude of bitterness towards Washington, the rhetoric he's saying now that is similar, but without the incredibly offensive part, I totally agree with. And I don't think there's anything controversial about saying people in areas where jobs are gone are bitter after being promised jobs every four years and getting less and less. That's just obvious.

It's not clear to me that Obama has apologized sufficiently for the stupid shit he said, or that he understands why it was offensive.

However, it doesn't change the way I feel about him or Hillary or John McCain. He's still right on more things than either of them, and he's still my candidate.

[thunder rising]

1. He's smart enough to have started this attack. He plays Clintons and McCain for free press

Also, this is much like the Wright attack where the 2 minutes was taken out of 10 minutes worth of context. There is (again) a video of the entire context which explains the statement. No apology needed, he's correct.

[mattclearing]

2. I'm almost tempted to regard it as another bait comment, but it's too risky.

I mean, the last time he did this was with the Reagan comment which totally sent the Clinton camp over the edge. This is similar, but a lot more dangerous, and that makes it seem less likely to be intentional.

Regardless, the Clinton campaign is going to take this way overboard, and I have a feeling it's not what they think it is. They want it to be a ticket to the nomination, and I doubt it's that big a deal.

[cooolandrew]

3. In all honesty he would probably be speaking of death threats that we all know he probably is gettin

Mike Malloy gets them you know for sure Obama is. Wish it weren't so but in full honesty we know it is. In in some ways he had to say this put it out in the open why folks turn to gun crime to excuse and vent their misplaced anger. it's not everyone but some feel this way.

[Life Long Dem]

4. How can it be other than the fact that they happen to be important to their way of life?

That was the whole idea of what he said. There's a mistrust of voting for what you want, unless you are voting on a wedge issue.

[mattclearing]

5. Like I said, I got what he was getting at.

But what he actually said was outrageous to a lot of reasonable people who have every right to be mad.

[JoFerret]

26. Your posting makes sense to me

.

[and-justice-for-all]

6. I do not think that is a stupid comment...

because they do 'cling' to such things and a majority wear them on their self.

[mattclearing]

7. Even if people do cling to guns and religion...

...it's not because they are bitter towards the government. It's because guns and religion are an integral part of their lifestyle.

[Life Long Dem]

I don't see that he implyed they weren't important.

But that's the only thing important and screw the dishonesty of a candidate.

[and-justice-for-all]

11. That's because he did not say such....nt

[mattclearing]

14. He seemed to imply that they were a crutch.

Like these people needed guns or religion to give their lives meaning because jobs weren't around.

[TLM]

12. Even if people do cling to WEDGE ISSUES LIKE guns and religion...WHEN VOTING.

Even if people do cling to WEDGE ISSUES LIKE guns and religion...WHEN VOTING.

You left some important details out...

Read the whole thing...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mayhill-fowler/obama-no-surprise-that-ha_b_96188.html

Full transcript:

OBAMA: So, it depends on where you are, but I think it's fair to say that the places where we are going to have to do the most work are the places where people feel most cynical about government. The people are mis-appre...I think they're misunderstanding why the demographics in our, in this contest have broken out as they are. Because everybody just ascribes it to 'white working-class don't wanna work -- don't wanna vote for the black guy.' That's...there were intimations of that in an article in the Sunday New York Times today - kind of implies that it's sort of a race thing.


Here's how it is: in a lot of these communities in big industrial states like Ohio and Pennsylvania, people have been beaten down so long, and they feel so betrayed by government, and when they hear a pitch that is premised on not being cynical about government, then a part of them just doesn't buy it. And when it's delivered by -- it's true that when it's delivered by a 46-year-old black man named Barack Obama (laugher), then that adds another layer of skepticism (laughter).

But -- so the questions you're most likely to get about me, 'Well, what is this guy going to do for me? What's the concrete thing?' What they wanna hear is -- so, we'll give you talking points about what we're proposing -- close tax loopholes, roll back, you know, the tax cuts for the top 1 percent. Obama's gonna give tax breaks to middle-class folks and we're gonna provide health care for every American. So we'll go down a series of talking points.

But the truth is, is that, our challenge is to get people persuaded that we can make progress when there's not evidence of that in their daily lives. You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. So it's not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

Um, now these are in some communities, you know. I think what you'll find is, is that people of every background -- there are gonna be a mix of people, you can go in the toughest neighborhoods, you know working-class lunch-pail folks, you'll find Obama enthusiasts. And you can go into places where you think I'd be very strong and people will just be skeptical. The important thing is that you show up and you're doing what you're doing.

[mattclearing]

15. I've read the whole quote.

He's equating religion with anti-immigration and anti-trade sentiment. Any way you slice it, that's going to piss someone off.

[TLM]

8. He was talking about voting those issues....

read the full transcript.... he is talking about wedge issue voters and why they vote on wedge issues.


The spin that he was talking about anybody who goes to church or owns a gun doing so because they are all bitter is ridiculous.

[mattclearing]

19. I've read the whole quote.

Yeah, it's ridiculous except the part where he said it. :eyes:

He didn't say that everyone clings to religion or guns because of their bitterness towards Washington, but he said that it's no surprise that they do. His implication is clear, and the fact that it isn't what he was even trying to make a point about is all the more problematic...because it's said off-hand as though it's plain to see...there are a lot of people who don't appreciate that.

It's not like presidential candidates don't know their words are going to be taken out of context, and it's also not like they expect all voters to read their full quotes and parse their context. It's a dumb mistake any way you slice it.

[BigBearJohn]

9. We need more people like you in both Democratic camps. A well-reasoned post IMHO.

Sign me,

A Hillary supporter.

I am not blind to Hillary's faults; however,
I feel she's the better candidate.

I have no need to call Obama any names.
I'll vote for him if he's the nominee.
However, I hope Hillary gets the nomination.

It's really a shame how old friends on DU are
tearing each other apart. I guess we just
feel passionate about our choices. I will
try to be more civil.

[Life Long Dem]

10. And soon to be an Obama supporter as well aye?

;-)

[mattclearing]

13. A nice post.

Thanks for this. Things do get ugly in GD-P, but I generally chalk it up to newbs and or trolls who will either chill out or disappear after the convention.

[Life Long Dem]

16. What is Hillary trying to make this into? Seems we can't be bitter.

As if she is saying go to her where we will not be bitter.

[mattclearing]

17. Basically.

"Come with me, where everything is sunshine and daisies, you can have universal healthcare, jobs, tax breaks, peace, prosperity, just vote for me, I can do it all."

[Life Long Dem]

18. So that would be the opposite of what Obama is saying.

Which then would have one ask, who knows what is really going on in this country. Obama who says people are bitter, or Clinton who says one is not bitter.

[mattclearing]

20. I made it clear where my loyalty lies.

It doesn't matter if 95% of what he said is true if the other 5% is totally condescending and completely overshadows it.

[Life Long Dem]

22. If I was implying you were not loyal, then I didn't mean that.

[Life Long Dem]

21. So,

we are to do what is driving people to wedge vote in the first place - as far as what Cliton wants.

Of all people we are to trust Clinton and not what Obama is making the whole issue about. Go figure.

[mattclearing]

23. People are a lot more willing to listen to reason if it isn't sandwiching an insult.

Especially when it plays into flyover country/Jesusfreak/gun-nut stereotypes, which is exactly why it's a problem.

[TomClash]

24. Sorry - what he said had more than a ring of truth to it

Everybody wants "honesty" from politicians and then they aer insulted when they get it. Here's what Barck said

"You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them.And they fell through the Clinton Administration, and the Bush Administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not."

"And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."


It may not be good politics to say this but what Barack said is largely true.

[JoFerret]

25. It's easy to imagine what he meant to say

and even understand/ agree with aspects of it.

But it was just so so stupid to say it the way he did. He's running for president of the whole country not the president of the ivy league. It was a mistake, a misstep politically speaking.

[writes3000]

27. I don't think it was stupid at all.

And I think you have to work hard to twist what he said into some kind of assault on small town Americans.

If people cannot count on their government to help them, they will cling to other things/institutions - and they will vote on those issues. Simple and true.