Clinton will lose for the same reason Kerry lost

[julialnyc]

Kerry didn't lose because he is an elitist (right wing talking point) if anything he lost because people didn't find him authentic (duck hunting? pandering with "I voted for it before I voted against it). Hillary Clinton turning into a beer drinking Annie Oakley is far worse than Obama poorly crafting together some words that are essentially true. These people are all wealthy and well educated (right wing criteria for elitist), but it's the authenticity that wins. John McCain is appealing to people because they find him authentic (the stupid "straight talk express"), Obama may have made a few errors when speaking, but he never shape shifts into something else. Hillary has become the master panderer and it's not attractive.


P.S Hillary, Gore didn't lose

[valerief]

1. He lost because Ohio elections were soooooooo dirty. Everything

was wrong with them from votes not counted to not enough voting machines to all the other regular dirty tricks. Florida, too.

[julialnyc]

6. right, I know that there could be fraud, but he should have killed GWB

and I think his fatal flaw was his pandering an inauthenticity.

[valerief]

9. He could have crooned like Sinatra and won every old-timer's vote

and it still wouldn't have mattered. The FIX was in. It was already decided that he would not win. The dictatorship was not going to give up its power.

[INdemo]

39. Agreed..The fix was in long before election day and I fear that

all the tools are in place to steal this one..Lets see how close the phony polls have Obama and McCain once this primary is over...
The corporations have gained so much power under the Bush/ Repuke administration they certainly aren't going to give that up easily...Democrats will uncover all the corruption that has taken place under Bush.With McCain it will be hands off and business as usual. Oil companies can expect to pay a windfall tax with Obama and with McCain they continue that free ride...So with all this and much more to lose they will not give up this election easily.

[blm]

16. BULLSHIT! Kerry hunted for 50 YEARS. He wasn't BACKED UP by the Dem pundit class

who let the RW rule the talk shows with their BULLSHIT that YOU decided to believe.

Try KNOWING your nominee julia - because YOU didn't do your job to know the truth, either.

There hasn't BEEN a nominee as skilled in so many sports as Kerry, and that includes the fact that he's an EXPERT MARKSMAN.

He was also an AUTHENTIC war hero - and an AUTHENTIC statesman who uncovered and exposed more government corruption than any lawmaker in modern history - and lazyminded dumbasses who don't know that would imply and say otherwise.

[julialnyc]

20. It's not a matter of how fabulous he is at any sport

It was how forced it appeared when he tried to show it off in a way that is anything but natural.


I'm sure Clinton may enjoy a beer..... but the whole scene at the bar did not come off as her natural habitat.

[blm]

21. BULLSHIT AGAIN - he hunted for FIFTY FUCKING YEARS and an expert marksman - if the talking heads

would have told the truth and repeated it the way they claimed Bush was a rancher cowboy the public would have seen him that way.

The Dem pundits and LAZY Dems who claim to be activists now are the ones who never bothered to get to know their nominee enough to defend him with the truth as effectively as Bush was defended with lies, fer chrissakes - and that's why Bill HAD his book tour in June and July - to make SURE the DEm voters DIDN'T get to know their nominee enough to defend him.

You showed YOUR colors - the truth was there and you chose to buy into the lie.

[julialnyc]

29. Listen, I really like Kerry and was thrilled to vote for him

But knowing the way the media works he wasn't very savvy at image control.

I think Kerry is one of Obama's greatest supporters and I can only dream of what it would have been like if he had won, but it's not wise for a party to ignore their mistakes.

[fedupinBushcountry]

32. Anything but natural?

For criminity sakes he wore a hunter's outfit, I thought that is what you are suppose to wear for when you HUNT, what is so god damned un-natural about that?

Just shows how people fall for crap and by the way that did not make him lose the election, republican dirty tricks in many states with Republican Secretary's of State just like Florida (Harris)for Gore.

[blm]

38. Now even Dems are easily told by the media that a lifelong hunter in a hunting jacket is 'phony' and

they suck the lies right up.

[fedupinBushcountry]

44. I know

it simply amazes me how easily they are suckered into elitist pundits spin.

[Exilednight]

23. You're missing the point. He might have been authentic, but he didn't come across as authentic.....

and Hillary is neither authentic or come across as authentic.

The OP is right, despite the Ohio fiasco, Kerry should have trounced shrub. The DLC and the 33% strategy payed off as well for Kerry as it did for Gore. The one time it did work it cost us both houses of Congress.

[blm]

28. BULLSHIT - if the media had accompanied those events with the TRUTH you wouldn't be repeating LIES

for them now, would you?

[Exilednight]

33. What lies would those be? n/t

[blm]

42. The ONLY reason he was cast as a phony was because corpmedia NEEDED him to be seen that way and

YOU repeat the lying image that they made sure to craft instead of STICKING with the TRUTH - they could have taken those pics and given an accurate narrative to go along with the photos - the press knew damn well there wasn't a more wellrounded and graceful athlete in DC than Kerry, but they needed to protect Bush.

Dan Rather has admitted they needed to protect Bush for the favorable rulings on media expansion they expected in a second term.

[Exilednight]

43. Let's be honest, Kerry looked like a dork when wind surfing n/t

[blm]

54. He didn't on the cover of Windsurfer Magazine in 1997. But you see what corpmedia TELLS you to see

and you never knew enough about the Dem nominee so you were easily manipulated that way.

YOU failed YOUR duty as a citizen who imagines yourself as an activist for the party.

[Exilednight]

59. WTF are you talking about? What was I suppose to do about Kerry looking like a dork?..........

Should I have ran out to the beach and told said, "Hey Senator, don't do it - they'll make you look like a dork."?

[julialnyc]

36. thank you... that was what I was trying to say

As sad as it is image control is important and while I'm sure Kerry is an authentic person, it was too damn easy for the right wing to paint him otherwise. I think Clinton will have a similar problem.

[InfiniteNether]

22. I second that. Ohio was definitely stolen. The best way to override

the neoconservative voting machines is to overwhelm them in all counties. Obama can do it.

[blm]

55. When machines are rigged by PERCENTAGES, then numbers don't matter. Kerry gained 10 million more

votes than Gore did. And that doesn't even include the 5 million 'lost' votes. In 2002 if anyone would have predicted the 2004 nominee would get 10 million more votes than Gore, it would have been deemed an overwhelming performance.

[InfiniteNether]

56. So what can we do?

[karynnj]

48. This shows more about you than Senator Kerry

I think you should self delete this as it is in poor taste and possibly illegal.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

8. I agree.

[GarbagemanLB]

2. BINGO. Hillary's weakness is trustworthiness and like-ability. I made a post earlier

about how Hillary's big mistake in this 'Bitter' bullshit was HER pushing the story herself. Not to mention going off on how she is more American and how she has secretly always loved guns and whatnot. Obama put the final nail in her coffin when he straight-out called her on it last night, calling her Annie Oakley. The polls show a distrust and dislike of Clinton, and Obama knows that.

THAT'S why people laughed when Obama said what he did last night. He was laughing himself and was totally at ease. I'm sorry, but Hillary doesn't come across that way, and that is why her pushing this bitter stuff will not help her.

[KingFlorez]

3. Kerry lost because he didn't properly defend himself

He didn't fight against the swift boat attacks hard enough and allowed the right-wing to define him. That was the problem with him.

[julialnyc]

12. there was that too I agree

[blm]

19. Bullshit - he did - the corpmedia didn't show his speech attacking swifts. and He WON.

The RNC stole that election for Bush and Clinton loyalists at the DNC sat on their hands for four years and LET them have it.

[Infinite Hope]

4. Exactly. n/t

[GarbagemanLB]

5. Key word: AUTHENTICITY. Obama (rightfully or not) has it. Hillary doesn't.

[roseBudd]

31. It is also referred to as charisma, Obama has it, Kerry, Hillary & Gore do not

neither does Dukakis or Mondale

[eridani]

49. Gore didn't have it in 2000

He sure the hell has it NOW, though. The trick was permanently shaking off "handlers." I bet if Clinton did that, she'd look way more "charismatic" than she does now.

[ProSense]

7. Pandering with "I voted for it before I voted against it? Do you even know what you're talking about

That was a spin by the Republicans and had nothing to do with pandering.

Duck hunting? I would say vote suppression and lies.

Oh, Kerry won the primary.

Hillary is no John Kerry.

[julialnyc]

10. Yes pandering

I voted for it before I voted against it was one of the stupidest lines I've ever heard and the Republicans wouldn't have had it to play with if he didn't say it.

The duck hunting was ridiculous and not being himself.

I do agree with you on voter suppression and lies, but the combination was fatal.

[ProSense]

24. No,

the facts have nothing to do with pandering.

[GarbagemanLB]

11. rightfully or wrongly, kerry indeed had an image problem. Was it the main cause of his loss? No.

It didn't help, though.

[ProSense]

26. There is a difference between media supported distortion and Hillary's lies

This is an apples to oranges comparison.

[eridani]

50. Not in the effect they have on the public, unfortunately. n/t

[fedupinBushcountry]

17. I guess not

It gets me how so many on DU don't know a damn thing about votes in the Senate.

The only panderer I see in this race name starts with a H and ends with a Y.

Oh and to the OP, John Kerry is probably one of the best surrogates Obama has and did you notice how his campaign took off once Kerry endorsed Obama, I did and so did many others. So please don't compare Kerry to Clinton they are like night and day

[julialnyc]

25. I personally loved Kerry and was very proud to vote for him

but that doesn't mean I couldn't see his flaws and where things went a little wrong.

[WillyT]

13. Word !!!

"Hillary Clinton turning into a beer drinking Annie Oakley is far worse than Obama poorly crafting together some words that are essentially true."

EXACTLY !!!

K & R !!!

:kick:

[Sequoia]

14. Annie Oakley?

I doubt she was a beer drinking swizzler. But she certainly was a crack shot. A better comparison might be Katie Elder.

[nichomachus]

18. Maybe Bonnie Parker?

[Sequoia]

40. Heh, heh....!

[julialnyc]

15. Also, why would Clinton bait Gore like that?

He didn't seem like he was itching to jump into this race and now his phone will be ringing for his feelings on her comments

[IndyHatedByBothSides]

35. To poison the well before...

...he can play elder statesman within the party.

[julialnyc]

37. Yeah... I was wondering if they knew something was coming

because it's seems really stupid to bait him into that position any earlier then they can keep him out of that role.

[bigtree]

27. Is it okay now to associate Obama with any character we want?

Annie Oakley and all . . .

[IndyHatedByBothSides]

34. But Hillary will get away with it...

...since she now appears to be the neo-conservative candidate.

Seriously. Two years ago, how many of you would have believed that Hillary would be despised by so many Democrats, including the bulk of DU, while at the same time celebrated by the neo-con punditry?

She's emerged as Cheney 2.0.

[roseBudd]

30. Kerry lost because he has no charisma and a funny looking hound dog head

And some people want us to nominate an annoying woman who lectures people.

[Carolina]

41. Amen!

lectures, lies, triangulates, spins... whatever, she does it.

[roseBudd]

46. What Hillary supporters fail to realize is that only they like her. Nobody else does. And a fawning

media would not make her any more likeable.

She is just plain annoying.

[julialnyc]

53. Not only that, but she inspires Republican turnout

People who might otherwise stay home will go vote against her. She is the villain of the right wing (unfairly so, but it's the truth)

[blm]

58. What a lookist post. Cancel securing the election process, because 'looks' will get votes counted.

Kerry WON and he LOOKED presidential no matter how you wish to distract from the FACT that he'd be in office today if Terry McAuliffe had done HIS Job after 2000 and secured the election process in states where he KNEW for FOUR YEARS the race could be stolen.

[Scurrilous]

45. K & R

:thumbsup:

[karynnj]

47. Kerry was authentic - thge difference is the media

As to I voted for it - it was a sentence summing up an answer he had given in detail moments before - he voted for a version of the spending bill that rolled back tax cuts, then voted against the final version that didn't. This was not pandering and it was explained a million times - with a media acting as if they couldn't remember for 2 minutes. As to hunting - Kerry is a hunter - one thing I dislike about him.

The fact is Kerry was far more a maverick than McCain - protesting VN, Going after the Contras when Democrats like Clinton and Gore were tacitly for funding the Contras, then fighting BCCI when everybody in both parties was against it. He is also genuinely more honest and straight forward than McCain ever was. Not to mention he is clean - while McCain was one of Keating 5 and has been very involved with lobbyists.

Just consider that the media treated purple heart bandaids as if they were silly novelty hats worn to the convention. Think about that. The Navy gave Kerry those purple hearts because he was injured. Think about that - he was a healthy 25 year old athlete. He still has shrapnel in his leg. Any of those wounds had the angle or his position been different could have left him dead or severely injured. he was lucky, if you think being hit three times is lucky! Of all the things in Kerry's life they could have used, this was the most pathetic. Kerry himself did nothing to deserve this - unless challenging Bush was a sufficient cause to use something like this to attack a man.

[Kaleva]

51. Perception is reality

[Beacool]

52. Hillary didn't "turn" into anything.

Hillary can drink and holds her liquor quite well (ask McCain), vodka and wine are her preferred drinks. Bill, is the one who can't drink worth a damn.

Also, she did learn how to shoot as a little girl during summers in Scranton. As far as hunting, she did it as a dare and bagged a duck. Chelsea didn't talk to her for days for killing that duck.

[Leopolds Ghost]

61. Why should we ask McCain, is he her new social secretary?

[ClassWarrior]

57. Well, besides the fact that Kerry didn't lose either, you're entirely correct...

From the Rockridge Nation web site, online home of framing guru George Lakoff:

1. What does a political candidate need to do to win voter confidence?
2. What are the traps that cause political candidates to lose credibility among the populace?

The short answer to the first question is that voters must identify with the candidate. Four things come together for this to happen. These things are values, connection, authenticity, and trust. The candidate must talk about values when discussing issues to consciously articulate the concerns that lead to political positions. The candidate must communicate values effectively to connect with people. This requires the speaker to always appear authentic so that they seem to believe what they say. A candidate who talks about values and connects with people in an authentic way will build trust, which encourages voters to select them over other candidates.

The second question can only be answered by understanding a few discoveries from the cognitive sciences about the human mind. It is not simply a matter of the policies a candidate supports. The merits of one policy over another will not win the hearts and minds of supporters who are looking for a leader that resonates with their hopes and protects them from their fears. No, what people look for in a leader is a moral connection.

http://www.rockridgenation.org/blog/archive/2007/03/12/thinking-points-discussion-of-chapter-1-winning-and-losing/?searchterm=authenticity

NGU.

[ORDem]

60. May be something to that, but this year the dynamics of the GE will be different.

In '04 there were a ton of hot-button State issues on the ballots and an incumbent running. Only if Hillary should win the nomination would the GOP turnout be high in nearly all States this time. McStain is not going to inspire them, that's for sure.

:dem: