Hillary = Nader

[Stop Cornyn]

I've been a Kucinich supporter and an Edwards supporter.

I have defended Hillary's health care plan as preferable to Obama's, but I ultimately came down in favor of Obama over Hillary because he will have a positive down-ballot effect in Texas and Hillary will have a negative down-ballot effect here, but I have previously rejected the idea that Obama and Hillary are very far apart in ideology.

Unfortunately, the offensive tone of Hillary's campaign in Pennsylvania has persuaded me that she's given up on 2008 and is willing to resort to disingenuous attacks which elevate her own negatives at a faster rate that she is raising Obama's because she is now simply trying to torpedo the Democratic Party in November so she can run again in 2012.

In effect, Hillary has become Nader. She is running to promote her own agenda (which some may agree with and other may disagree with) but which has become an anti-Democrat agenda in terms of its ultimate effect in November.

Am I the only one who feels this way? Please let me know I'm not alone in this feeling.

[billyoc]

1. Man, I've seen Nader-bashing before, but this takes the cake.

:rofl:

[Stop Cornyn]

2. I am actually a big fan of Nader and his commendable history of consumer advocacy. I understand why

he runs as a third party candidate, but I cannot rebut the idea that the ultimate net effect of his campaigns has been to the detriment of the Democratic Party. I'm getting that same anti-Democratic vibe from Hillary.

[cliffordu]

29. yeah, what did he do that was SO bad to deserve this??

:rofl:

[Lucky 13]

3. Stop insulting Nader!

:)

At least he didn't assault the other candidates character. He ran a campaign on his own merits, which just so happened to fuck us out of an election. Hillary is running a campaign on the glimmer of hope that she might be able to tear the front runner down enough so as to make him unelectable. She uses dirty tricks and distortion to convey a twisted message.

[Independent-Voter]

4. Pretty much. Nader's gotten more narcissistic as he's aged, but then again, so has Veruca

[RaleighNCDUer]

5. If she has an anti-Democrat agenda it's because she isn't a Democrat.

She is a DLCer, and their self-proclaimed "third way" is meant to define themselves as being neither republican nor democrat.

As I've been saying for years.

[NJmaverick]

6. Nader never got as nasty or personal

but at the rate she is going, she has the potential to cause as much damage to the Country.

[Lilith Velkor]

7. YAAY! Let's shit all over her supporters like we did with Nader's the last two elections!

What could possibly go wrong? It's not like we need their votes in the general! :bounce:




:eyes:

[Stop Cornyn]

8. Where did anyone say anything bad about Hillary's supporters? Personally, I'm one of those few Obama

supporters here who would agree with the statement that there has been more nastiness from Obama supporters at DU than Hillary supporters at DU.

My objection is with Hillary and her campaign, not her supporters.

Aside for the few obvious douchebags, the worst thing I would say about 90% of Hillary's supporters is that they are being a bit naive about her mathematical prospects for success, but as a former Kucinich supporter I'm obviously not someone who would scold another person for supporting a candidate with almost no mathematical chance of success.

[Lilith Velkor]

21. Riddle me this, then

If she is, as you say, "trying to torpedo the Democratic party so she can run again in '12," what party is she going to run with?

(And if you say "Republican," you get a haddock upside the head. They won't have her.)

BTW, getting ~500 out of the remaining ~800 delegates, including supers, is a longshot but not impossible, which is obvious unless you use campaign rhetoric instead of the ol' noggin.

[Stop Cornyn]

24. First, if Hillary's efforts to torpedo the Democratic Party in 2008 are successful (which I don't

anticipate), then I suspect that she would run as a Democrat in 2012. In this unlikely scenario, instead of accepting blame for torpedoing the party in 2008, she'd say "I told you so" as her 2012 campaign theme.

Second, you say that Hillary getting 2/3 of the outstanding delegates is a longshot but not impossible. Where do you get such an idea? It's like saying Hillary pole-vaulting 20' is a longshot but not impossible. Nonsense! It is impossible. Maybe someone under some circumstances could pole vault 20' but Hillary can't. Likewise, maybe some hypothetical candidate could get 2/3 of the remaining delegates, but Hillary can't (and neither can Obama, by the way).

I say this based on past performance. Hillary is losing more and more as the campaign goes forward, but she's losing incrementally. Obama is winning incrementally. If you look at the past aggregation of delegates, neither candidate is going to pick up 2/3 of the remaining delegates unless one candidate withdraws (or her campaign capsizes). There isn't a mathematically realistic scenario where Hillary can get 2/3 of the remaining delegates.

Just as a bug will continue to twitch after its head is removed, Hillary's campaign may go forward, but there is no prospect of viability.

[genie_weenie]

9. Not EVEN close! Ralph has done far more for the health and safety of the US.

[Triana]

10. I know ppl who will vote for Nader if Hillary gets the nom (n/t)

[cbayer]

11. Letter from Nader to Clinton

Posted particularly for all you fake dems who are trashing her in defense of him in this thread:

"Senator Clinton:

"Just read where Senator Patrick Leahy is calling on you to drop out of the Presidential race. Believe me.

I know something about this. Here’s my advice: Don’t listen to people when they tell you not to run anymore. That’s just political bigotry.

"Listen to your own inner citizen First Amendment voice. This is America. Just like every other citizen, you have a right to run. Whenever you like. For as long as you like.

"It’s up to you, Hillary. Just tell them — It’s democracy. Get used to it.

"Yours truly, Ralph Nader"

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0308/Whos_got_her_back.html

[yourguide]

12. She's worse than Nader, she doesnt have the ethics he has.

[IsItJustMe]

13. Self interest pretty well sums it up for me also. Sad, but it is what it is.

[IsItJustMe]

14. dup

[rug]

15. Obama = Humphrey.

Another 1968 General Election.

[goldcanyonaz]

26. Or Mondale.

[Stop Cornyn]

27. So Hillary is Nixon? I can see where you're coming from, but I think that too harsh ...

[followthemoney]

16. Don't vote for evil in any degree.

In effect, Hillary has become Nader. She is running to promote her own agenda...

...And the agenda of those who vote for them.

How dare these candidates not appeal to the Democratic Party for permission to run.

[TragedyandHope]

17. You give her too much credit

I kid. I kid.

[Araxen]

18. Alot of people feel she's positioning herself

to guarantee she can run in 2012 by bringing Obama down. So you aren't the only one.

[bvar22]

19. Nader is open and honest.

He runs openly against the Democratic Party on ISSUES from the outside.

Hillary is hurting the Democratic Party from the inside (DLC).

[phantom power]

20. I disagree. To become like Nader...

she would have to run as a 3rd-party spoiler, if she loses the nomination.

[Stop Cornyn]

22. No, that would make her Lieberman. Nader never did anything so underhanded as to run as a Democrat

in the primary and then only switch to an independent after the Democrats rejected him.

Hillary is a Nader in that her campaign (1) no longer has any realistic chance of winning and (2) appears calculated to harm the Democratic Party's chances in November.

[lib2DaBone]

23. I Love Kucinich and Edwards...

What a ticket that would be? Kick Nancy Peolosi under the bus and flop that big old IMPEACHEMNT THINGY right up thar on the table.... yee-haaa

[Yanez Houston Jordan]

30. Me too

[Stop Cornyn]

31. What's NOT to love?

[wrando]

25. Hillary is worse than Nader

That's why I'm voting for Nader

bill from ct

[Bluebear]

28. Well that's helpful.