How 2008 will be the biggest disaster since Michael Dukakis and Walter Mondale

[Fluffdaddy]

For the Democatic party. And Obama supporters don't even see it coming. Well I do and so does others................This is going to be bad, really bad.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/18/clinton-backer-distribute_n_97525.html

"This is the case against Obama that Karl Rove is developing. He's been pushing the Ayers-Obama link on FOX. . . . Most labor folks, myself included, wouldn't know Ayers if we tripped over him. But the FBI summary does contain some absolutely shocking examples of hardcore Communist ideology. With friends like these, who needs enemies....And given what they did four years ago, Democratic strategists ought to be alarmed that Rove is back to his old tricks."

[anonymous171]

1. lol FYI Mondale endorsed Hillary.

[Fluffdaddy]

6. And endorsement from a man that lost ALL BUT ONE STATE

[Leopolds Ghost]

173. Absolutely SHOCKING examples of hardcore Communist ideology!!!!

!!! You mean like in Acts 5:1-10 ?

(snip snip...)

Although anti-communist Christians do believe that Jesus encouraged all Christians to provide for the sick and the destitute, they also believe that it was not compulsory for ancient Christians to share their goods.
They assert that Acts 2:42 states that those who "had all things in common" chose to do this because they were among those "that believed."
Skousen also argues that Acts 4:32 implies that only those who "were of one heart and of one soul" had "all things common". Therefore, in the anti-communist view, a communistic lifestyle was an optional choice made by devout Christians; it was not a requirement.

Christian communists respond to this by citing Acts 5:1-10, which they hold to be additional evidence that the Apostles and early Christians did not view communism as something optional:

1 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession, 2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet. 3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? 4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. 5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things. 6 And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him. 7 And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in. 8 And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much. 9 Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out. 10 Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband. (King James Version)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_communism

[2rth2pwr]

8. He learned his lesson.

[Fluffdaddy]

30. Apparently not

[polpilot]

120. Did Hillary 'see' the disaster coming or does she like getting crushed by him?

[Fluffdaddy]

129. she is not getting crushed. She's not that far behind. Stop the lies

[Usrename]

156. It's an insurmountable lead.

She was crushed.

[polpilot]

191. spouting fluff's not helpful. Too late for her graceful exit. Now she'll have to be dragged off

stage.

[my3boyz]

266. Call the drs and get your meds increased if you believe that.nt

[roguevalley]

203. you have to be kidding. the record of someone doing things when

he was seven. ROve is the asshat who said he had The Math and was convinced that 2006 would be a wipeout for the dems. You really need to get a grip, hon. Doing Rove's work here is verboten.

[roseBudd]

161. He got a personality transplant? I had no idea.

[JoFerret]

144. I don't get your point

Mondale was and is a great democrat. So is Hillary.

I don't think you understand the real concern here. The concern is from people some of whom truly admire Obama and want to see him succeed.

None of us can predict the future. but only a fool would say that the GOP will not throw everything it has to defeat the democratic nominee.

All the "activism" in the world will not be enough. We need that base plus ALL the other bases to win this.

For the "activists" (whoever they are. my 76 year old neighbor is quite the activist and has been for over half a century. He is "activating" now for Hillary. Another octogenarian friend is "activating" for Obama) to go prancing around being divisive and pure is a recipe for guaranteed defeat in November. both of them are VERY concerned about this election and divisiveness it has wrought.

[Hepburn]

170. Mondale is a Democrat; Hillary is...

NOT. She is Bush-Lite.

JMHO

[JoFerret]

185. Well fyi yho

...is very offensive to me and to many democrats who consider themselves a loyal 'base".
Please stop trying to splinter the party with these "base"less opinions.
JMHO as a democrat of long standing.

[Hepburn]

239. You don't like my opinion of her....

...your problem. I will say it again...Hillary is BUSH LITE.

Deal with it.

[GoldieAZ49]

241. I look forward to your 'dealing with it' when half the party does not vote

for Obama if he is the nominee, the character lite candidate.

I hope you enjoy seeing red, on the electoral map that is.

[Major Hogwash]

250. You don't speak for half of the party.

You're just wasting your time thinking you do.

[Fluffdaddy]

276. This will be a disaster of biblical proportions. The Big O supporters

will be in a state of shock at 1201AM Nov.9th. This was our year and we fucked it up :(

[GoldieAZ49]

284. They don't care, they just want their bama

'clutching defeat from the jaws of victory' will be the new motto

[CTLawGuy]

294. so how is HIllary supposed to run an

"experience" campaign against McCain?

or is she going to run on fining people for not buying health care?

or is she going to run on ending the war she voted to start?

[PoliticalAmazon]

309. More DLCscare tactics. What do you think the GOP would do with Bill Clinton's DickGates? n/t

[Hepburn]

288. Hillary the known Sniper-Fire Liar was a loser from the day

...she put her hat in the ring. Her negatives are going through the ceiling and you think she can win? What planet are you from?

[JoFerret]

263. The awful thing is

that this attitude of yours- writ large - is what will cost the democrats this election.
As to who is more like GW Bush - well - a vapid born-again who people flock to, plucked from relative obscurity, who appears to stand for very little and who it wet behind the ears and has a very thin resume...who people find likeable, affable but who has no substance... etc.

Obama is no Bush in many way but the similarities are stronger than the differences.

What is actually going on here is that some are trying to erase the Clinton years completely. Hence we have all this Kennedy era hoopla. Johnson, Carter, Clinto - to be erased. the party elders have found a new prototype. And they flatter him and he flatters them and surrounds himself with father figure mentors.
To me - that is a crime.

[mwb970]

274. Obama is like bush?

Now I have heard it all!

[GoldieAZ49]

278. Obama: ah, ummm, ummm, ah, ah, er, ummm

Barack “I-didn’t-know” Obama
http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/03/24/barack-i-didnt-know-obama/


Capiche?

[mwb970]

279. What silly nonsense. /nt

[GoldieAZ49]

283. Yes it is, because he did know, he just thinks he is 'above' it all

[mwb970]

286. Fascinating. /nt

[Hepburn]

289. Now here is a case in point of total Hillbot Ignorant Stupidity....

...it is pretty much a given that Obama is going to be the nominee...and here you are with that totally immature "SNOB" poster and just fucking BEGGING for the Pubbies to put that all over the place.

Your immaturity and stupidity is so noted. Thanks for intentionally harming the chances of the Dems in November. Just remember your little snarky moment with that poster today when you see it used later against the Dems.

Sheesh...:eyes: Grow the fuck up, OK?

[GoldieAZ49]

296. awwwwwwwwww, poor bama baby!

Like that poster is his undoing. :rofl:

why do you think the media waited so long before breaking the stories on Obama? They have been holding onto this stuff for over a year. They waited until he was 3/4 of the way to the nomination intentionally! Once he is the nominee there will be so much more!

enjoy your bama, you deserve him.

[Hepburn]

300. It has NOTHING to do with Obama....

...it has to do with urging you to NOT help the RWs. Duh...:eyes:

But I guess either you are too ignorant to see what you are doing...or you prefer the RW position.

Your pick...

[Hepburn]

290. Yeah...that is soooooooo much worse that lying about sniper fire...

...point, point, clap, clap, cackle, cackle.

When one lives in a glass house, one should not throw rocks. :eyes:

[Why Syzygy]

306. Are you channeling Taylor Marsh?

I read that exact quote about flattery here today.
It really is advisable to think about something rather than just xerox.

[PoliticalAmazon]

310. I think Taylor is channeled via the kind of implant Cartman got in the alien abduction episode. n/t

[roguevalley]

204. have you not considered the HUGE pile of poo that is hillary's

baggage? they were discussing this on the teevee this afternoon, puzzling why hillary saying HER baggage has been pawed over for years somehow equates a pass. it won't happen. Her negatives, already HUGE will only increase and people will remember again their fatigue with the clintons. Everyone needs to do what they think they need to do but I'm not worried about this. Hillary has alienated so many people -ON BOTH SIDES- she would have to go ring doorbells by herself in the fall. Unless she takes the pot and pan marching band with her. :)

[susankh4]

270. The naivete' on the part of Obama supporters

is absolutely mind boggling.

Hillary's supporters, for the most part... want to see Obama succeed. I know I do. I also know he is not ready for prime time as a presidential candidate. And the ABC debate proved that.

I am in awe that Obama's supporters cannot see what a favor Stephanopoulis and Gibson have done the Dem. party in pointing up just a fraction of what will be thrown our way in the fall.

[Fluffdaddy]

277. Thank you.

[yourguide]

2. Dems also ought to be MORE alarmed that...

a fellow dem is taking the same tactics...

[yourout]

3. Desperate does not even come close to describing Hillarys campaign.

[writes3000]

4. If Obama beats Clinton, then just how strong is Clinton.

Isn't that the basic question?

Especially given the fact that Clinton went into this race with almost every advantage.

Now, we're supposed to ditch the winning candidate and throw our support to the losing candidate who's losing despite name recognition and huge advantages...

Just because you say so? No, thanks.

[ScarletSniper]

13. Bingo! Even if I wasn't an Obama supporter, I'd take my chances with the non-DLC candidate first...

[krawhitham]

16. Hillary CAN NOT win GE

All McCain has to do is mention in a debate he knows what real snipper fire is really like and does not need to make up lies about it

DONE STICK A FORK IN HER


That is something he will attack himself, no 527's involved


the 527's will attack here on so many other issues but this issue when personally leveled by McCain will be the final nail

[WillyToad]

178. There is no way McCain can win, regardless

All the democrats have to do is hammer endlessly how McInsane wants to stay in Iraq forever and continue the bush tax/borrowing scheme for eternity.

Lame little irrelevent attacks against the Democratic nominee won't do anything this time around.

[AndyTiedye]

257. Sadly, That Will Work Just As Well Against Hillary as Against Obama

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

148. Nominating Hillary GUARANTEES loss. Obama brings many more voters into the process than he'll lose.

[WillyToad]

181. Fully 1/3 of the Democratic party say they will not vote for Obama

No talking points from Obama rally's can change that fact. If Obama is the nominee, he will have to do some serious talking to his supporters, who have driven 1/3 of the party away from their nominee with their negativity. If Obama can bring Hillary supporters to his side, then he will win by a landslide, but he will not magically pull replacements from thin air if he arogantly brushes them off.

The Unity that Obama talks about is just not materializing

[krawhitham]

189. Then they are not democrats, fuck um

I hate Hillary but I'll still vote for her even if she does steal the nomination

[roguevalley]

205. 61 posts, unless I get letters from one third of the party, I don't believe

it. I held my nose and voted for Kerry though I loathed him as a candidate. I would postulate that those ninnies are not dems to start with and I hope they get drafted first.

[dano81818]

295. i like obama and am disgusted by hillary but i am afraid

that if obama is the nominee, FL def goes red along with probably ohio. i don't think any new voters who enter the process will be able to overcome that electoral advantage.

so either we have the shrew, who would probably win both states, or a candidate we like who will probably lose them.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

5. Your D L C avatar says it all.

[tokenlib]

9. Clinton machine=DLC machine, case closed n/t

[la la]

23. how about this?

Obama Machine= MoveOn Machine?

eh?

[tokenlib]

31. MoveOn does not sell out the New Deal tradition of the Democratic Party n/t

[Name removed]

54. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[patrice]

35. So? Which one is closer to actually being us? nt

[la la]

67. Is that

dick cheney----on DU???

lordy, lordy!

:evilgrin:

[patrice]

72. "lordy, lordy!"? You must be somekind of Fundy Bible Thumper. nt

[la la]

202. heh heh

no I'm not--sorry! Far from it!

[stillcool]

40. I'm a Move-on Member..

and I don't hold public office.

New Democrat Movement
GROUP

The right wing current of the Democratic party, characterized by its neoliberal economic policies, support of Israel, desire to increase defense spending, and links to heavy donors and fundraisers.

Believes that "left-wing" positions are not politically viable. Describes itself as "moderate and pro-growth". Probably responsible for erosion of the Democratic Party's historical labor and minority base due to support of treaties like NAFTA, lack of support for affirmative action and poverty programs, and their siphoning away of campaign funds from minority groups.

At the national level, the movement was founded by the Democratic Leadership Council (501c4 educational non-profit, founded 1984) and includes the House New Democrat Coalition (founded 1997), the Senate New Democrat Coalition (founded 2000), the New Democrat Network PAC (founded 1996), the misnamed Progressive Policy Institute (501c4 think tank, "Bill Clinton's idea mill", founded 1989), and the umbrella funding group The Third Way Foundation (501c3 non-profit, founded 1996).

Since coming to power within the Democratic Party with Bill Clinton's presidency, the New Democrats/DLC have worked towards "essentially the same purpose as the Christian Coalition... to pull a broad political party dramatically to the right" according to John Nichols of The Progressive.

DLC operatives actively worked to sabotage Howard Dean's candidacy for the US Presidency in 2004, claiming that the "far-left" Democrat was wrong to attack George W. Bush's tax cuts and national security policies.

Corporate contributors to the DLC and New Democratic Network include Bank One, Citigroup, Dow Chemical, DuPont, General Electric, Health Insurance Corporation of America, Merrill Lynch, Microsoft, Philip Morris, RJR Nabisco, Chevron, Prudential Foundation, Amoco Foundation, AT&T, Morgan Stanley, Occidental Petroleum, Raytheon, and many other Fortune 500 companies.

The New Democrat Movement is sometimes referred to as the Dixiecrat movement due to the DLC's origination in the southern states, their desire to get rid of affirmative action, and their membership's overwhelming whiteness.

"Democrats should shift the primary focus from racism, the traditional enemy without, to self-defeating patterns of behavior " --Chuck Robb, 2nd DLC Chairman, Governor & Senator of the Great State of Virginia, White Man, 1986.

"I'm from the democratic wing of the Democrat Party" --Paul Wellstone, progressive Democrat, criticizing the New Democrat Movement.

"Democrats for the Leadership Class" --Jesse Jackson, progressive black Democrat, describing the DLC.

Official Website:
http://www.ndol.org

[la la]

61. okay--

I'm an ex-MoveOn member. I'm tired of donating my time and money for whatever MoveOn decides to support on any given day.

[stillcool]

76. I voted in the Move-on poll...

actually I participate in all their actions.

[roguevalley]

207. well, I am sure the DLC will take your money.

[calimary]

147. Um... The idea of MoveOn Machine doesn't threaten me a bit. In fact, it would be

an attractant. But then again, I'm a MoveOn.org supporter - financially as well as philosophically.

[roguevalley]

206. moveon has done more for this party in getting money and people

going than that fuckwit DLC ever did. They were created to help bill and it pisses me off HUGELY how people turn on them. The list of 'dead to me' is probably two miles long and even if Hilarity got there, she would still need all the organizations and people and states that she dissed to have a minute chance. Fat chance.

[Hepburn]

291. Move-On is the real deal. The DLC are RW Pubbies in Dem clothing. n/t

[Fluffdaddy]

11. Yes it does. Proud DLC member

[anonymous171]

28. Proudly elitist.

[msallied]

182. Wow. You're a Neo-Con! Awesome!

:sarcasm:

[patrice]

243. And who, exactly, appointed you and the rest of the DLC "Leader" of anything, except yourselves. nt

[gmudem]

304. New Democrats = Old Republicans

And we have the sackless, corporate DLC to thank for the Democrats major congressional losses in the 90's and early 00's.

I didn't think there was such a thing as being a "proud member" of the DLC. I would think they would be too embarassed to admit it.

[blm]

26. DLC Clinton wing of the party = BFEE Lite.

.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

43. Not sure the term "lite" is even relevant anymore.

More like an equal opportunity enterprise with the BFEE.

[blm]

52. The Trojan Horse wing of the BFEE would be even more accurate, eh?

.

[New Dawn]

195. DLC = GOP

[Hepburn]

240. DLC....

...:puke:

[Selatius]

7. I hate to say it, but at this point, I can see McCain beating either Hillary or Obama in the general

Whoever wins the Democratic nomination will be red-baited regardless.

[Fluffdaddy]

15. The Big O supporters are happy to close their eyes to the facts and go down in flames in Nov.

[patrice]

25. As much as "we" might love him, Big Dog supporters can't see how many Americans

want to barf every time they see him. DLC supporters need to get out more - out of their clique - and find out what the rest of the country thinks of the Clintons.

[Selatius]

48. At this point, I think Hillary supporters are just as blind. Nevermind the DLCers. n/t

[roguevalley]

208. you seem to believe that McCain is clear on all fronts. This dork has

more holes in him than swiss cheese. Some rogue group will spill the beans that he made propoganda for the Viet Cong and that coupled with his cheating, war-mongering, lobbyist-savings and loan bullshit will sink his sorry ass.

[AndyTiedye]

252. McCain Has Plenty of Baggage (Can You Say "Keating 5"?) But The Media Will Not Speak Of It

The MSM LOVES McCain. They will do everything in their power to keep the people from hearing anything ill about him.

[newmajority]

215. The only one going down in flames is Hillary. And the sooner the better

I'm praying for Tuesday.

Sing it Bon.........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikTxIsGwbKg

[merh]

223. you did read that he said both Hillary and Obama, not just Obama

and it would seem that Hillary would stop trying to tear down Obama if she cared about a dem winning office. It appears that the DLC doesn't want to accept the truth, that is that they are destroying our chances and tearing down the party.

[my3boyz]

267. Oh so you admit Obama will be the nominee! Finally some sanity. Thanks.nt

[PoliticalAmazon]

312. Hillary can't win. Republicans won't vote for her, and she's alienated half of the ....

Democratic Party.

Hillary Clinton can't win in the general election. There is simply no way she could get more votes than can John McCain, and here's why:

1. Republicans won't vote for her. She is so thoroughly loathed and mistrusted by the majority of rightwingers, they would rather vote for Satan than Hillary Clinton.

2. Many Democrats won't vote for her.

A. Many Democrats view her campaign tactics as similar to the Bush/Rove campaign tactics. These tactics infuriated Dems during the 2000 and 2004 elections, and have alienated many Democrats who do not want another four years of the kind of turmoil and destruction visited on the American people by the Bush administration.


B. Many Democrats view Hillary's policies , as shown by her actions since the WJClinton administration, to be similar to the Bush/Rove policies. Worse, it is easily proven that she is now lying about her prior stances on important policies, and this truth-shift started just about the time she started running for the presidency.

C. Hillary has repeatedly insulted Democratic Party voters who voted for Obama, and some of these Obama supporters will now not vote for Hillary under any circumstances.

3. There would be a huge increase in GOP voter registration and voter turnout. Hillary on the general election ticket would be the best register-to-vote and get-out-the-vote tool a political party every had. Unfortunately, it would be the REPUBLICAN PARTY. Rightwingers who had never bothered to vote before would come down out of the hills to register to vote if it meant they could vote against Hillary Clinton. And, they may so much enjoy kicking Hillary in the metaphorical kiester in the voting booth, they might show up for future elections to see if it is as much fun using the voting booth to kick other Democrats in their metaphorical kiesters. This surge of new Republican voters might be enough to definitvely shift the balance between the numbers of voters in the Democratic Party and Republican Party. As a bonus, this would negatively impact future elections, as these newly-registered Republicans continued to vote against all Democrats because they hate Hillary Clinton so much.


4. Veterans won't vote for her. If Hillary was in the general election, she would be going up against a bona fide war hero, John McCain. The Republicans would certainly emphasize this McCain strength, and use any opportunity to discredit Hillary in this regard. Now that she has lied--FOUR TIMES--about being under sniper fire, she has given them a golden-plated issue on which to attack her. McCain (and many other U.S. veterans) HAS suffered sniper fire. Hillary lying about experiencing sniper fire is not only a cheap political campaign tactic, it is an insult to real war heroes like McCain, and many other U.S. veterans who have truly suffered from sniper fire. The GOP would annhilate her on this issue alone. Hell, the GOP wouldn't even need to swiftboat Hillary Clinton. She swiftboated herself.


5. American workers won't vote for her. Loss of American jobs to outsourcing has taken a large toll on the American worker and our economy, and this is a large concern of American workers. An issue that has not been addressed in the Democratic primary is the fact that Hillary has been an eager proponent of outsourcing jobs overseas, and the Clintons are very involved in sending American jobs to India. They have financial and political interests in continuing to send American jobs to India. In fact, Hillary Clinton has promised her India corporate clients that outsourcing jobs to India would continue, and advised them not to pay attention to the American worker backlash.

6. Americans with military -draft-age children, and Americans against the Iraq quagmire will not vote for her. Hillary has been strongly for the Iraq war. She voted for it, and continued to stalwartly stand by her vote right up until about the time she started running for president. In addition, despite almost daily promising voters that she will bring our soldiers home from Iraq, on the nationally broadcasted ABC-hosted debate she said that if any Middle Eastern country attacked Israel, there would be immediate drastic retribution from the United States. She indicated there would be an "umbrella of deternece" over the entire Middle East to protect Israel. Obviously, this policy directly conflicts with her promises to bring the troops home. The only way her "umbrella of deterence" could occur is if she reinstituted the military draft. There simply are not enough volunteers left to support such a huge soldier-slaughtering policy.

She just can't win.


Indeed, at this point the only way John McCain can win in the general election is if Hillary Clinton is the Democratic Party candidate.

Why do you think rightwinger forces like Limbaugh have urged Republicans to vote in the Democratic primary for Hillary Clinton? Because they KNOW they can win against her as the Democratic candidate.

And would we want her as president, if she did manage to win?

Even if she did become president, we would be stuck in another four years of Bush policies. During her time in the Senate she has endorsed with her votes almost all of his worst policies and appointments, despite our pleas with her to stand up for the American people and not cave to the neocons. There would also be another four years of investigations of the Clintons' actions in the White House.

Also, we would be made to suffer another four years of Bill Clinton's unending DickGates. As my Midwestern mother would say, "A skunk doesn't change its stripes overnight," so we could look forward to Bill Clinton's continuing womanizing in the White House, with an anticipated DickGate II, Return of DickGate, and DickGate: The Horror Continues.

These are all reasons why Hillary Clinton is unsuitable as a Democratic Party's presidential candidate. In the first place, she can't win, and even if a miracle occurred and she did win, she would continue the destruction of our nation Bush Jr started.

[ginnyinWI]

19. there are a lot more registered Dems than Repubs now.

How can they win? Are all the Indies going to vote for McCain or something?

Then there's money. Obama is fund-raising rings around old John.


With more money and more voters, the only way he loses is if there is thievery at election time, on a grand scale. Because I don't think he'll be getting only 52% of the vote. Hopefully it will be a fraud-proof majority of the vote.

[Selatius]

42. I just don't think it's wise to underestimate the Repubs at this point.

GWB only won roughly 48% of the popular vote in 2000, and Gore won just slightly more, with the rest going to Nader and Buchanan and others. It was enough for the thing to be stolen. McCain may be able to get 48% nationwide.

[liam_laddie]

146. MY view of 2000

is that the SCOTUS selected Bush 43 in a partisan coup, which selection was counter to all previous states' rights cases and which was "not to be used as a precedent." It was a "Per Curium" opinion, not even a written decision! :thumbsdown:
"Fat Tony" Scalia, IMHO, is as responsible as Cheney, Greenspan, you name 'em, for the shitstorm that is now our once-upon-a-time experiment in a democratic republic.

[calimary]

151. Here, we agree. It's never a good idea to underestimate the republi-CONS.

Which means we have to work all the harder on opposition research on mcsame. HARDER. And put it out there EVERYWHERE we can, EVERY WAY we can.

Maybe if the DNC doesn't put out sufficiently hit-below-the-belt stuff about mcsame, WE need to. Maybe we need to generate our own ads and videos and stuff and saturate the market. Poison the well so thoroughly that a whole lot of GOPers stay home.

[roguevalley]

209. bush cheated both times. you forget he cheated. we don't underestimate

anyone. don't overestimate uncle fudd.

[AndyTiedye]

254. Yes They Will. The TeeVee Will Tell Them To, and You Know How "Swing Voters" Are

How can they win? Are all the Indies going to vote for McCain or something?

Sadly, yes. Neither of these candidates have much appeal among independents. He doesn't need all the independents, he just needs most of them, which he can easily get.
Diebold will take care of the rest.

Then there's money. Obama is fund-raising rings around old John.

Doesn't matter. The Repiggies don't need to raise money. They've got the MSM, which ran the Swift Boat stuff endlessly FOR FREE in '04. Think of that as about a 4 billion dollar campaign contribution from the MSM. Do you think this year will be any different?

[Why Syzygy]

307. Most of the Independents around here

are going for Ron Paul. He will probably carry our county.
I'm Independent and will be going for Obama.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

51. I seriously doubt it.

The Republicans are stuck with Bush and what he has done. McCain can only offer more of the same, as can the Republican Party.

If nothing else, the state of the economy will sink him. Though I'm not a fan of either Hillary or Obama, they'd have to really work hard to blow this election.

Even the usually apathetic American Public starts to pay attention when a lost war has lost all purpose, their kids still come home in coffins, and they're losing their jobs, houses, and can't afford the latest goodies.

I seriously doubt that the predictable flag-waving, bogey-man erecting, God shouting, will have it's usual effect on the electorate this time around.

[ginnyinWI]

63. yes: it's a change election. And we sure need it! n/t

[patrice]

83. May I refer these folks coming on here and saying BHO is a Lefty, or a Marxist, to you, please? nt

[Capn Sunshine]

79. Because this strategy worked so well in 2006

No wonder you DLC guys cling to the 90's. You just don't understand the new politics that is funded by the people and not the corporations.

Or maybe you DO.

[Selatius]

86. Who said I supported the DLC? What's killing me is McCain so far is getting a free ride.

I deplore the DLC's economic positions, and I'm a socialist. I find it rather insulting to be considered a DLCer.

[Mooney]

122. They cling to the 90's and live in fear of 2004.

The campaign that Hillary Clinton is running is 4 years late. People are not impressed any more by a list of what other countries besides Iraq she's itching to attack.

[Leopolds Ghost]

174. Hate to see it? You should be happy to see it.

It will be fun to watch the death of anti-left sentiment on live TV as the corpmedia wakes up and realizes half of its viwers aren't old enough to remember the cold war.

[chascarrillo]

10. Senator McCarthy, is that you?

Oh no, a communist! Lynch him!

[Liberal Gramma]

12. In your opinion

Mine is different--I think it'll be a landslide for Obama. His campaign has registered hundreds of thousands of new voters, brought out the young, and appealed to moderate Indys and Reps. No Democrat was ever going to get the votes of the people who fear the word "liberal," so that bloc was never in the mix.

[DJ13]

14. So you prefer listening to Rove over fellow Democrats?

You Hillary supporters have lost all touch with reality.

[Fluffdaddy]

21. Rove have proven himself over two elections. I wish we had a Rove

on our side :(

[SoonerPride]

32. FUCK THAT NOISE

I would quit the fucking Democratic party if we had some motherfucking slimeball cocksucking demon twisting and smearing the good works of others merely to win an election.

FUCK THAT.

HE IS PURE EVIL.

[Fluffdaddy]

36. Give me someone that knows how to win, any day of the week

[SoonerPride]

41. Obama is winning, unless you hadn't noticed.

Thanks for playing.

[Danger Mouse]

44. Fuck that. We should never sell our soul...not even to win.

[Warren DeMontague]

107. Then why the hell would you want to support Hillary? She's LOSING.

How about someone who not only knows how to win, but also does so by speaking honestly and raising the tone of debate- as opposed to dragging the party and the nation down into the gutter at the same time?



Sounds good to me.

[patrice]

78. Solidarity, SoonerPride!

IF we're ever going to do better, we MUST start doing better.

NGU!

[DJ13]

34. Thanks for showing your true colors

When you would rather side with the enemy than your fellow Democrats its time you side with them permanently by leaving.

And take your traitorous candidate with you.

[Fluffdaddy]

39. Not saying I want Rove, Just someone that's low down and dirty LIKE ROVE

[SoonerPride]

45. So you admit you have no moral compass.

Screw that.

[Fluffdaddy]

53. Screw compass. I want to fucking Win. Do what needs to be done,

Like the GOP.

[SoonerPride]

55. Then you are a hopeless case.

Win at all costs makes you the same as them.

You need counseling.

[stillcool]

64. Do what you always do..

get what you always got...I guess you are happy with the state of our union.

[patrice]

90. There IS more than one way to win.

And becoming "them" IS losing in the biggest most enduring way.

[Leopolds Ghost]

177. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again,

And expecting a different result.

[roguevalley]

211. ends justifies means = bush

[Spirochete]

260. So just join them

You wouldn't have to change your ideology any, and it would be a lot less stress on you, knowing you were on the winning side.

[my3boyz]

269. Well, if you condone Tonya Harding type tactics you certainly have the rt candidate. nt

[DJ13]

62. You're just incapable of seeing the truth

First, Hillary is NOT "the tougher candidate" as she's LOSING to Obama.

Second, the voters (of both parties) are tired of the kind of politics that the Clintons and Rove represent, and if you doubt that ask yourself why Obama is still just as popular after the Clintons, the GOP, and the MSM have tried damaging him for the last two months.

Its not working.

Last thing, I suggest you study up on what your avatar represents.

[PatGund]

46. I'm glad we don't

I'd rather lose ethically than win unethically.

The GOP has embraced the "lie, cheat, and steal to win" lack of ethics that Rove symbolises. If the DLC wants to go that route, they're no better than the GOP and do NOT deserve to be called Democrats.

That being said, I believe we're going to win against the GOP smear machine this November. But not if the DLC choice is the nominee, because the GOP has been frothing at the mouth to run against her for years.

[Fluffdaddy]

57. You know what they call people that rather lose ethically than win ?

LOSERS

[PatGund]

66. Thank you for showing your moral compass.

Those of us with functioning morals and ethics will just have to win without you

[Fluffdaddy]

81. Or get our Butts kicked like in 84 and 88

[doublethink]

91. Curious ...... the more responses I read of yours in this thread ....

the more I wonder why your posting on a 'PROGRESSIVE' site at all. Look up the definition of 'progressive', and what it stands for. Peace.

[Fluffdaddy]

98. Different degrees of progressivism I guess.

But I'm a progressive and a life long Dem.

[roguevalley]

212. no, they call them humans. people like you who believe what you

do are called bush.

[Straight Shooter]

103. We do. His name is Robert Gibbs. He is the Obama campaign's communications director.

The Dean-morphs-into-Osama ad was directly attributed to Gibbs and his PAC. Robert Gibbs is notorious for his ability to destroy Democrats. So, in that instance, although he is like Rove, we don't know how good he would be in helping Obama to fight McCain.

Axelrod's other team member, Plouffe, I believe, was responsible for helping the mysterious Kerry/Gephardt alliance which managed to destroy Dean, also. There were some weird shenanigans going on right before Iowa.

The media, of course, delivered the coup de grace, but in a most unmerciful manner.

[thoughtcrime1984]

136. Yeah, we need a fucking Rove

Go back to freeperville!

[msallied]

186. I think you should save yourself the time and become a Republican

since you're so intent on doing that which separates US from THEM.

[roguevalley]

210. Rove is going to be buried in trials, siegelman just one of many.

We don't need rove. That fat asshat will be squeeling for his life elsewhere.

[my3boyz]

268. Oh hell know...the fact that you want someone like Rove on our side shows

you are just like Hillary...a Tonya Harding type of personality.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

17. Nothing like a little red-baiting from the DLC. EEEK!! Communists!!!

[Better Believe It]

22. They Will Red-bait Obama

Republicans will red-bait Obama with a little help from Democratic Party "liberal" leaders.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5577752

[bread_and_roses]

271. I know - it's hilarious, isn't it? (n/t)

[Crunchy Frog]

18. You think they wouldn't do the same thing to Hillary?

Boy are you delusional.

[The Traveler]

20. So what do men and women of courage do about that?

We pick up this big gnarly football called the truth and we run right at the center of their line. There is no one, absolutely no one, sufficiently pure to defuse the Republican smear machine. So shall we surrender, and nominate someone like Lieberman?

I say we we hit them with the truth. Again. Again. Again. And while we may lose this time, they will be bloodied and exposed.

The Republican Party has sold America out again and again. Let's talk about it on the grand stage of the General Election. Let's trust the people for a change. We're supposed to be Democrats, goddamit. Let's stop cowering like mice before the cat.

[Fluffdaddy]

27. I don't care about the truth. I want to WIN. Hillary is hard core e-nuff

to beat the GOP at their own game. While the Big O will stand there crying............it aint fair It aint fair

[SoonerPride]

49. She's a whining crying weakling

And they would make her cry more

[Danger Mouse]

56. Snipergate will destroy her against McCain, a genuine war hero.

[The Traveler]

68. No candidate wins the GE

It is all about the candidate's ability to marshall the party and those like minded. It is the ground game that wins it.

And if we don't care about the truth and doing the right thing ... impossible to accomplish without popular support ... then victory is pointless. We must learn, educate, rally, organize and rise. Obama has many things wrong, in my view. (Hillary is by far the superior policy analyst.) But this he has right, and I have come to regard it as the vital consideration.

[roguevalley]

214. hillary lives three feet up her own ass. every vote she's taken in

six years has been in her own self interests. didn't you hear in the debate how if anything happens in the middle east, she is going to nuke it? She is a whining baby. Tough? Make me laugh. You equate boneheaded bullheadedness with strength.

[Bensthename]

24. Some one needs to get the balls and bring up Hillary's baggage here

to shut these Hillbots down.. I can't do it. I've tried to start a list of Clinton's crap to post but it is long and looks bad.. I don't have the heart.. Hillary is lucky that Obama does not use them for sake of shutting out the Hillary voters..

[ClassWarrior]

29. Anyone who describes a good Dem as a "disaster"...

...isn't a Dem.

NGU.

[Hoof Hearted]

235. Yeah. OK. Hillary gets called way worse in EVERY SINGLE THREAD on DU.

[doublethink]

33. Don't see'it' coming ????

Hillary's been doing 'it' and continues TO DO 'IT' ...... why wait for the repubs to get in on the action??? Geesh amazing how much of the Democratic Party Hillary thinks she can throw under the bus and still believe she can pull this off. Not just the primary, but the GE, she's burning down the house. It's bad NOW for the Democratic party Fluffdaddy and 'it's Hillary's Rovian tactics that have been making it so. It's illogical at this point, boggles the mind. But whatever spins your tickler, maybe this is just what you and Her actually want.

Let's just hope the SD's are smarter than that and end this thing now. Peace.

[RazBerryBeret]

59. well said, and hello

doublethink!!!

Hillary has now kissed off 3.2 million voters by bashing MoveON--who thinks that was a good move?????

[doublethink]

112. And that's just the latest part of our 'Big Tent' she's thrown in the trash.

What's the word .... hubris ..... narcissism ..... whatever, I'm beginning to think there is something mentally wrong with Hillary at this point? Anyway hello back at ya RazBerryBeret !! :hi: Obama's gonna take this thing, later than I'd like it seems, but we gotta keep the pressure on ..... peace.

[doublethink]

116. Hey it just clicked ...... your one of my new friends on the myspace .....

band site !!! Thought the name sounded familiar !!! How's it going? Hope your having a wonderful Saturday !!! I'm getting too fired up on DU off and on today .... in-between chores ... keep checking back in to see what else in here pushes a button or two of mine !!! Good to here from ya! :hug:

[dkf]

37. And didn't McGovern endorse Hillary? haha.

[Mika]

38. Sure am glad that the world wide communist revolution didn't happen.

Sure am glad that world wide corporate domination stopped it.

:eyes:

[Leopolds Ghost]

184. But you just know foreigners are out there conspiring to overturn the glorious corporate revolution

Counterrevolutionaries, spies, and anti-globalization agitators!

[RazBerryBeret]

47. the facts.

the repugs are going to cheat some votes.

the only way we can win is by a big margin.

the way to get more votes is to engage more and new people.

The only way we can do that is speak truth to power--to the PEOPLE.
(corporations don't vote)...

WHO has been successful with this ?

have you seen this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYUkyvpA_a8&NR=1


the marching crowd has been estimated @ 5,000, this after the rally crowd estimated at 35,000. I think that is amazing! and powerful!!

THIS is what we've been waiting for!

THIS is the only way we can win!!!

[Danger Mouse]

50. Haha, DLC? The haves or the have mores? Which do you represent?

:rofl:
Secondly, considering that Clinton can't take down Obama, how the hell is she going to beat McCain?
What happens when McCain, in a debate, mentions snipergate?
'I know what real sniper fire is like'
Bam. She's done.

[newmajority]

58. Yes.... 2008 will be a "disaster"

For the DLC, that is. Bill Clinton is the only DLC'er who could ever win an election, and now it's obvious that his wife can't do it. The Repuke Lite policies of the DLC are being exposed to more and more Americans, and they don't like what they see.

Bitter? Angry? You bet your ass they are, and they aren't forgetting who made NAFTA a reality.

Even some of the original DLC'ers have seen the writing on the wall and are bailing out of the sinking ship. Reich and Richardson being the most recent examples.

The Republican wing of the Democratic party is on life-support. Let's hope they pull the plug on Tuesday.

[rhombus]

60. Didn't Rove predict Republicans would hold on to Congress in 2006? heh?

How did that work out? Rove is full of himself. And his tactics are so transparent to voters now.

[Fluffdaddy]

69. Yes he did. But the DLC read his book and beat him at his own game

And we can do it again with Hillary as the leader of the party.

[anonymous171]

70. ROFL!

:rofl: Laughable.

[patrice]

97. Your elitist assumption is that people are too stupid to catch on to Rovian tactics. nt

[Warren DeMontague]

108. Bullshit. It was opposition to the Iraq War that delivered us congress in 2006.

Something that your so-called conventional wisdom, values-voters-pandering, self appointed "experts" couldn't grasp in 1,000,000 years.

[gmudem]

305. Don't be ridiculous.

It was precisely because the Democrats shed the DLC policy of acting like Republicans while pretending to be Democrats that real Democrats won. Notice how the only contested Senate race that Democrats lost was in Tennessee.

But hey, at least Harold Ford has time to lead the neo-liberal DLC.

[dbonds]

65. You have a DLC avatar.

The DLC has been the worst thing ever to the Democratic party. They have tried to take over the party and remake it as republican light. The DLC is what allowed the 94 congress to go republican and the eventual election of shrub.

[Fluffdaddy]

71. Bull. The DLC is the reason we won back both houses

Putting republican light democratic candidates in red states..................AND WON

[dbonds]

75. Dream on.

[Arugula Latte]

84. What utter crap. The DLC has done untold harm to the Democratic Party.

The grassroots and Dean's 50-State Strategy are the reason we won back both houses!

[SOS]

111. In 1994 the DLC did a great job, losing both House and Senate

In 2006 it was the people sick of the war that did the job.

DLC web site article title: "Why the war was right"

[New Dawn]

197. BS

The American people voted to end the Iraq War and impeach Bush. Meanwhile, the DLC hacks in Congress have given Bush everything he wanted and more. A more accurate name for them would be the Antidemocratic Leadership Council.

[roguevalley]

216. 'republican light democratic candidates' are bastards with blood

on their hands. the times have changed and people are not going to put up with bullshit anymore. First exhibit of evidence? Hilarity losing.

[leftstreet]

253. R.O.S.S. P.E.R.O.T.

Sheesh! Is everyone here too young to remember history?

[Heathen57]

262. I call Bullshit on this one, Fluffdaddy

The DLC lost both the house and senate in the 1990's with their Republican ideals.

The only reason that we now have a narrow majority in the house and senate is because of Dr. Howard Dean and his 50-state strategy. He connected with the common voters and convinced them that they mattered and could make a difference. The DLC doesn't believe in that at all. They want to sit in their 'Ivory Tower' and dictate to us who and what we will vote for.

And what they are dictating is that Corporate Fascism is good for the masses. That is pure Republican and total crap.

[Willo]

73. Obama's so-called "dirt"

can be brushed off his shoulders. So, we're good.

Hillary however, will need excavators, loaders and a convoy of dump trucks. Frankly, there's no place to dump or hide that much dirt.

[ulysses]

74. let's see - pro-Clinton, invokes the ghosts of Dukakis and Mondale...

Yup! DLC supporter.

[lisa58]

77. Tell it to the Super Delegates if you're so sure

[roguevalley]

217. the superdelegates will tell everyone in the next few days and they

are going to be saying OBAMA!

[kwenu]

80. Only if WE make it so. Hillary will NOT be given the nomination through fearmongering.

Either she earns the nomination because of what SHE has to offer or SHE needs to go home. This is just another desperation article and post that does Hillary no credit.

[Arugula Latte]

82. Oh, if only we could go back to the days when the DLC pulled the strings!

:rofl:

[doc03]

87. Name one non DLC President.?

[Alexander]

154. Jimmy Carter.

[doc03]

164. I don't even know if the DLC existed back then

but Jimmy Carter at that time was considered a centrist and was elected because he could carry some southern states being a born again Southern Baptist. At that time he got the religious right vote, then in 1980 and ever since the Republicans have had a lock on that vote.

[Alexander]

176. No, it didn't, but it exists now and he's not a part of it.

Hopefully we'll have another non-DLC Democratic POTUS after this election.

[Danger Mouse]

192. Uh, genius, the only DLC president was Clinon.

[doc03]

89. Name one Move on .org President?

[Alexander]

155. Move On was created to help Bill Clinton until the Clintons threw them under the bus.

You know the title "Move On" originally meant "move on from impeachment", right?

[doc03]

85. The Rev. Wright thing alone

will beat Obama. The white male blue collar worker will not vote for Obama they will be this years McCain Democrats.

[Fluffdaddy]

88. Thank you........... The truth is not always pretty.

And before anyone call me a racist, I been black all my life

[doc03]

96. Today's Democratic party has moved so far left

they are just out of touch with reality. Sure Obama wins far left votes in a Democratic race but in the GE election the Democrats never win unless they run a centrist candidate. That's just the way it is. Remember Zell Miller he was probably what put the nail in Kerry's coffin, this year you will hear Lieberman rip Obama apart.

[newmajority]

130. If this party was "far left", Cynthia McKinney would be the Democratic nominee

If we were even what was considered mainstream Democrats in the 1970's, Dennis Kucinich would be.

Obama is no far left Liberal. God, how I wish he were. He is, however, the best chance we have of getting the country out of the hands of the corporatists, and back to the people. And the people includes people that I don't agree with, nor do I need to agree with them in order for the country to work as it should, once again. There is room for (non corporatist, non neocon) Republicans in this country. Just not in my Democratic party.

Hillary, on the other hand, was a Goldwater Girl, and a president of the College Republicans. She never moved one millimeter to the left from that position, and is now considerably to the right of it. Barry Goldwater would probably be scared to death of her neocon politics.

[doc03]

159. JFK would be considered a

neo-con by today's standards.

[Leopolds Ghost]

187. No, he'd be considered a leftist, by Overton's (right wing think tank) own admission:

http://www.swordscrossed.org/node/53

[doc03]

190. I don't see where JFK falls on that chart? Since it is a right wing

think tank they probably call Pat Buchanan a leftist. Kennedy apparently believed in the trickle down theory he cut taxes on the rich to stimulate the economy. Kennedy was a hawk, he came very close of incinerating the whole planet. He ran on the a military agenda he called "The Missile Gap" (which didn't exist). He was responsible for the failed attempt at the Bay of pigs. He escalated our involvement in Vietnam. Actually the only progressive thing to come out of his Presidency was LBJ used the sympathy people had for JFK in order to push the Civil Rights legislation thru.

[AndyTiedye]

256. I Think This Graphic Describes the Situation Better

[comrade snarky]

140. Oh yes,

A rousing Lieberman speech at the republican convention will end the Obama campaign.

Have you ever heard Joe speak? He couldn't light a fire with a bucket of gasoline and a road flare.

Oh and by the way, which is it? Is Obama a Marxist leftist who cant draw the middle or a secret republican who wants to destroy the left? I've heard both so may times I'm not sure which smear to believe. Help me out here!

[rockymountaindem]

219. If you think Zell Miller won *anybody* over with that shark-jump moment

I've got some swamp land you might be interested in.

[roguevalley]

220. 'far left'? you are on the wrong board

[roguevalley]

218. it hasn't hurt him so far. why don't you go and look in Hillary's

hymnal, there are FASCISTS, NAZIS and other white trash there. She CHOOSES to be with them even though it means being segregated by sex. Yeah, she's the Queen of Peace alright.

[EFerrari]

92. That is one of her last talking points. Thanks!

[Fluffdaddy]

93. Someone has to bring you Big O supporters to the water, And make you drink

Time is running out

[EFerrari]

95. Your effort is wasted on me.

I don't normally listen to either the presstitutes or to clumsy bullies. :)

[roguevalley]

221. since he's winning, I think you need to drink, hopefully something

non alky

[Saturday]

94. Unfortunately I don't think Obama can win the GE either. nt

[doc03]

99. I wish it wasn't so myself but I don't think

Obama can win. I go to work every day in a union shop and I am telling you Obama is not going to get the white male blue collar vote. You can call them names if want but sadly those are the facts.

[Fluffdaddy]

104. I work with blue collar white males union members all day long as well. And you're Right

They may not tell a pollster this, but they are not voting for "this" black man for POTUS.

[Leopolds Ghost]

188. Scare quotes meaning "this or ANY".

[roguevalley]

222. everyone I know is voting for him. we aren't scared of accomplished

black men and neither should you folks.

[MrSlayer]

224. I have similar experiences.

I work Union construction and the guys hate, absolutely hate, Hillary and don't care much for Obama. These people do not follow politics and will vote against their own interests out of simple ignorance and bigotry. It's not all of them but enough of them. We should have went with Edwards.

[CTLawGuy]

299. I, for one refuse, to pander to bigotry

FUCK those people.

[MrSlayer]

302. I agree but they are supposed to be our base.

It makes little sense to me. Ignorance is not just on the other side of the aisle.

[CTLawGuy]

308. don't want em

if that's our "base" we might as well be Republicans.

[Fluffdaddy]

100. I guess you will be receiving PM's from members about leaving DU as well

:)

[doc03]

105. Probably so, but I want a Democrat in the Whitehouse

just as much as any of them and from what I gather from talking to other people around here anyway Obama will go down big time.:banghead:

[jbm]

101. this is why I don't like Obama..

He doesn't carry the counties or the demographics to win, and he must know this. I understand that most people prefer feeling inspired to the actual counting of probable votes, but surely Senator Obama understands the impossibility of a general election win. I get that a Hillary win would have been tough too, but her potential vote count at least made a win look possible. Her offer of the vice-presidency to Obama was a solution to this situation. When he refused it, I could only assume that it had to be because his ego outranks his concern for the country, the people, and the party.

[roguevalley]

225. you would do well with your scary little lies if you left this part out:

"it had to be because his ego outranks his concern for the country, the people, and the party."

It rather turns your sad post from one that might halfway be genuine into a personal screed. Your post is laughable. He's beating her ass and he will win the election. John McCain is a joke.

[ecdab]

102. These "Republicans will attack Obama - Oh NO!" threads are so dumb.

And the authors of these ubiquitous threads always frame them in a manner that suggests Obama supporters think he will not be attacked by the GOP, while at the same time the authors actually acting like Hillary will not be attacked. Maybe there is a reason why Hillary treats her supporters (and pretty much everybody else) like they are contemptibly stupid.

[PM7nj]

106. Either one of them will get slimed...

but there is more shit to smear the Clintons with. They have been doing it for 20 years and can't wait to fire up the RW-Clinton-hate-machine again.

[doc03]

110. I'm still waiting those two lists

What Non DLC Presidents have we elected?


What Presidents has Move-on.org elected?

[newmajority]

115. Bill Clinton was the only DLC President ever elected

And he only got 43% of the vote, so it's not much to brag about. Perot was actually leading for a while, and might have actually won, if he hadn't dropped out, and then back in.

Not sure how I would have felt about Commander Pie Chart as President, but I do know one thing for a fact.

We wouldn't have NAFTA and all the similar shit that followed it.

There's your "successful" DLC president. Not much to brag about, is he?

[ecdab]

124. The DLC was founded in 1985 - so the answer is everybody prior to

that, however - I fail to see what that has to do with all these posts about the scary Republicans and how we should all hide from them, because their transparent BS is too much for all us timid Democrats to stand up to.

[EFerrari]

119. I just saw a RW nutcase making this exact argument this morning.

"Obama is Dukakis!!!!!!!!!11 RUN!!!!!!!!!11111

LOL

So transparent.

[Vinca]

109. Well, I'm changing my allegiance. Hillary people seem to think

she'll be immune from the right wing smear machine, so maybe she should be the candidate. Why on earth would Rove mention Bill Clinton and his stable of bimbos? After all . . . that's past tense . . . isn't it? Would they bring up all the criminal convictions associated with the last Clinton presidency? No, of course not. How about the uranium mining money and that Burkle guy with the Cayman Island connections? The Republicans would never think to mention it. And so what if the Saudis practically own the Clinton Library - doesn't mean a thing. As for the purported pictures of Bill and someone who isn't Hillary, I'm sure that's just a bit of teasing from the right. So there we go. I'm backing Hillary. :sarcasm: :rofl: NOT!

[comrade snarky]

143. Yeah!

Hillary is the only one who could win the general election!

Pay no attention to the fact that she cant even win the primary. That's irrelevant. Means nothing. Look! An angry black preacher! And he's not wearing a flag pin!

:sarcasm:

[Vinca]

145. Hillary is so patriotic she doesn't NEED to wear a flag pin.

:rofl:

[roguevalley]

227. they seem to think that because her shit has been aired for twenty

years that somehow it isn't fatally toxic. that somehow that gives her a pass. even the media was talking about that with wonderment this afternoon. it just makes it easier for fucknuts to make commercials about her and remind us why we are so sick and tired of their acres and miles of bullshit behavior.

[kid a]

113. Fluffdaddy! You need to get out more. You are WAY too old-school.

And in dire need of some Aricept.

[shayes51]

114. You are right, but Obama's supporters

just don't see it coming. Thanks for the post. You are brave!
:grouphug:

[EFerrari]

117. How brave is it to post talking points?

Nancy Pelosi hates American workers by opposing the Colombian Free Trade Agreement.

There, I'm brave, too!

[shayes51]

287. Anyone who gives her/his opinion in a hostile environment

is brave and worthy of respect.

[Fluffdaddy]

118. I fear a huge disaster. The GOP will have 4 years to pack the supreme Court

And all the advances the left have gained will be moved back 50 years.

[kid a]

123. Um...Hillary has done good job of getting that ball rolling in 2 months

[roguevalley]

228. don't worry about the supreme court. if hillery gets in, she said in

the debate that if anything happens in the middle east she will nuke it. when we're all dead, it won't matter.

[Nitrogenica]

121. Hillary has such a huge list of possible smears it makes this entire post moot.

sorry.

[Mooney]

125. I'm always amazed at how people can overlook this.

Hillary Clinton is massively unpopular. Always has been. Nobody but the most rabid Democratic partisans would possibly vote for her in the GE.

Reading off a list of all the possible smears the GOP could use against her would take as long as reading off all the names on the Vietnam War Memorial Wall.

[Nitrogenica]

127. Thank you, and the reason we don't hear about them yet is Barack hasn't gone there.

The right wing will.

Only a fool would think not.

[Mooney]

133. Obama did mention her high negatives in the past

and quite a few HRC supporters became outraged that he would say such a thing. He was accused of being a Republlican, if memory serves.

It's a completely obvious and well-known fact that HRC is massively popular among the American electorate. HRC supporters who pretend this isn't the case might as well be flat-earthers. Although flat-earthers are always describing the people who differ with them as being "duped," so I guess it's par for the course.

[mwb970]

280. Exactly correct.

You nailed it in four sentences.

[Armstead]

126. You're a Scardey Cat!

So Big Bad Karl is going to once again reprise the 60's against the Democrats?

Based on some inconsequential acquaintance of Obama?

Ohhhhh noooooo Mr. Bill!

Fer Christsake, don't you think they going to do something similar to Hillary if she's the nominee?

Maybe if Democrats stop being so scared of what the Republicans might do we might actually run a successful campaign.

And memo to Hillary: It doesn't help for a fellow Democrat to be laying the groundwork for Rove.

[madrchsod]

128. do`t vote for him if you think he`s going to lose

it seems there are a lot of people who do`t believe that he will lose to john.

are you really afraid of the republicans?

[Fluffdaddy]

131. "are you really afraid of the republicans?" YES!!

[Armstead]

135. Which is why the republicans keep winning.

[AndyTiedye]

132. More Like 1972 than 1988 I Think

It would have been a tough race against McCain anyway, but the primary race has doomed us.
We are headed for disaster in November, and it doesn't matter which candidate limps out of the DNC convention this summer to be our nominee.

I hope we don't lose the House and Senate too.

[roguevalley]

229. THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING! You act like this is

2000. A buncha shit has happened since then. Google is your friend. And this nomination will be over before the convention.

[AndyTiedye]

303. The Sky Fell in 2000, When Gore Won the Presidency He Deserved and Had It Stolen From Him

[thoughtcrime1984]

134. The DLC should become a third party

They could own all the wishy-washy middle of pandering to corporations, but not being TOO Republican. I despise the DLC, and am sick of settling for the bullshit that we have gotten for the last 28 years. Power to the people, not just to the select few!

[Dr Fate]

139. One of their top members, Joe Lieberman has already led the way on that one.

n/t

[thoughtcrime1984]

142. Yeah, quite the leader that stinky piece of dung is. Traitorman. nt

[HereSince1628]

137. Why would anyone post the ensign of the Elitist Branch of the Conservative Branch of the Democratic

Party?

I just don't get THAT at all. You expect we should take anything posted seriously? Seriously?

Your either a kulak or a serf. You shouldn't be happy with either.

[Dr Fate]

138. Rove could do the same w/ Clinton's Weather pardons. Same difference.

I wish the DLCers would just go join Lieberman's 3rd party and split up the right.

[doc03]

158. You see what happened when the far left tried to

get rid of Lieberman. I don't think you understand the average working guy doesn't get that involved in politics, they have been convinced by the MSM that Lieberman and McCain are straight talking maverics and thay vote their beliefs rather than a straight party line. I heard many times from former Democratic voters McCain should pick Lieberman for VP.

[roguevalley]

230. I loathe people saying everyone is stupid and doesn't pay attention.

do you understand that kind of thinking gave us abc's debate? I hope McCain picks that shithead for VP. Nothing better. As for straight talker, he hasn't even been turned to yet. Obama will demolish his sorry ass. His own side is gearing up to mangle him too.

[ima_sinnic]

141. bookmarked! so I can throw one of the most asinine "projections" back atcha when it proves totally

clueless.

with the repuke party enjoying about 28% popularity, with the Iraq War very VERY unpopular, with repukes leaving their party and admitting to liking Obama (have you seen the Republicans for Obama website and similar?), with McCain = Bush, only older, with the very obvious contrast of the tasteful, positive, New Millennium transparency of Obama against the shabby, clunky, dinousaur, last millennium McCain --McCain is toast. I don't care if we run Carrot Top, the Dems have this sewn up.

And the DLC is a bunch of imperialist Democrats in Name Only, who don't care about anything except their corporate lords and masters and their greed-head bottom lines. You wear that DLC avatar as though it were something to be proud of. But we've gotten wise to the DLC. Don't you have an inside traders' meeting you're late for?

[unblock]

149. oh noes!!!!!!1111!!!!!!1 republics can atttakkk dems/??/? what wlllsz we dooz???

[Hawaii Hiker]

150. Bullshit...For the most part, leading up to the 84 & 88 elections, Republicans

were seen in a much more favorable light than compared to now....I hated Reagan with a passion, but he was a fairly popular president, & it wasn't too hard for George HW to win in 88...

Things are totally different now...Many HATE Republicans & for damn good reason; highly unpopular war, most corrupt & dishonest administration ever, sinking economy, horrible reputation with the rest of the fucking earth, etc..

That asshole Rove couldn't prevent Republicans from losing House & Senate in 2006 midterms, & I really think most people will not buy his BS anymore...

[AndyTiedye]

259. More Like 72 Than 88

Nixon was unpopular, the war was REALLY unpopular, but their ability to spy on the Democrats (Watergate), plus the willingness of the MSM to attack the patriotism of all who opposed the war allowed them to utterly destroy us in the election.

and here we go again :(

[azmouse]

152. I think I'll just run around screaming like my hair is on fire....

Oh brother... :eyes:

[AtomicKitten]

153. Hey DLC boy: Guess which finger I'm holding up?

[Alexander]

157. DLC = Dim-witted Losing Centrists

The same entity that wanted to oust Howard Dean after his 50-state strategy helped us finally win Congress after 12 years.

[roseBudd]

160. I don't remember Mondale Or Dukaksis having rallies attended by 35,000 could it be...

they had absolutely no charisma??????????

[CoffeeCat]

162. I love seeing the DLC wing of the Democratic...

...party, frantically grasping at anything they can--as the SS Hillary sinks.

Seriously. This is funny.

As far as I'm concerned, Hillary and the DLCers who support her, can all
shrivel up and fall into oblivion after Obama secures the nomination. You're
a cancer on our party.

There are warmongering neocons in the Republican party and unfortunately, that
same slime has infiltrated the Dem party--the DLC faction.

They'll do anything and say anything--including making the same arguments as
Karl Rove--in order to perpetuate their war-centered, elitist, corporatist agenda.

[Alexander]

163. Yeah, here's hoping this election finishes off the DLC once and for all.

That bunch of right-wing losers has cost us enough elections.

[CoffeeCat]

171. Yes, let's hope they'll be relics...

...after this round.

Anyway, if we wanted warmongering neocons--we'd become Republicans.

I'm sick of this sell-out filth in our party.

[roguevalley]

232. The DLC has allowed asshats to win and drive everyone in the

fucking poor house. I cannot UNDERSTAND people voting and lobbying against their own interests.

[walldude]

165. OMG!! OBAMA IS A COMMIE!1!1!!!!!! I"M SERIES!

LMFAO.. Obama will walk all over Rove like a bad rug. "Rove is up to his old tricks" Yes he is. Problem is Obama isn't the same old candidate.

[Swamp Rat]

166. DLC = PNAC

[patrice]

245. Thanks Swampy! The 2nd one actually happened! I saw it on YouTube!

Are you publishing yet? Would love a coffee-table size book!!

Solidarity, Swamp Rat!

[ksdemocratsforthewin]

167. I sincerely doubt we can loose this election. Even with thing as are.

It's going to be hard to be beaten by more of the same. I mean that as a campaign slogan to.

[BzaDem]

168. There are a few of us that see it coming. That's why there is a vocal minority on this board that

supports Hillary.

Many Obama supporters say Hillary supporters won't vote for Obama because they are "Hillbots." That's BS. Many Hillary supporters support Hillary because even taking her problems into account, they *pale* in comparison to Obama's electoral problems. Many of us will tirelessly work for Obama if he is the nominee. We just aren't so delusional as to think that will turn a big loss into a win. Many Hillary supporters are simply doing what they think is best for the party (though I'm sure most people on this board will disagree, because most people here hate the DLC and love Obama).

[doc03]

169. Myself Hillary and Obama would be my last two choices

I can hold my nose and vote for Hillary but absolutely not for Obama. I think the Obama supporters are going to have a lot of crow to feast on this November. They will blame their loss on the Clintons no doubt and the votes weren't counted excuse.

[Fluffdaddy]

183. I will vote for Obama if he is the Democratic choice

I'm a Democratic first last and always. But we will lose,I feel it in my bones

[roguevalley]

233. Tell me one thing that the fucking DLC has EVER done that helped

me or my country. One thing. (I am not talking about how they helped bill. I want to know what they did to make anyone in this country better.)

[Leopolds Ghost]

172. dupe n/t

[burythehatchet]

175. CALL CONGRESS RIGHT THE FUCK NOW!!!!!!11!!!!one!!!!eleven!!

[bigwillq]

179. So is Clinton the better choice?

:shrug: I think no matter who the nominee is, the GOP is going to try and smear them.
We just have to be tougher.

[Blue-Jay]

180. If you think Clinton has a better chance in the GE than Obama, then provide some evidence.

Otherwise, stop repeating shit in hopes that it'll magically be true.

[Mooney]

194. That evidence doesn't exist.

There is, however, overwhelming evidence that she would get her ass handed to her in the GE. The American people hate her fucking guts. This has been apparent since 1992 to anyone with a pair of eyes.

[patrice]

248. And if they don't hate her, they hate Bill. It's a 2-fer. We'll vote for them because we're

Democrats, but that doesn't mean that much to most people and they think one justice is the same as another, so they're not worried about SCOTUS.

[IsItJustMe]

193. In your wet dreams Rush. In your wet dreams.

[bluestateguy]

196. The MSM threw out the McGovern/Mondale/Dukakis boogeymen to stop Howard Dean in 2004

It's like Democrats have personal demons and nightmares about these elections from 20-36 years ago. People! Get over it! That shit was a long time ago.

This whole McGovern analogy was used to scare Democratic primary voters away from Dean in 2004, so that we would pick the "safe" choice: John Kerry. Please.

[Mooney]

200. Seriously.

It's also amusing to hear Hillary supporters argue that the superdelegates should give the nomination to her to avoid a Mondale-style loss, since the superdelegates chose Walter Mondale!

[roguevalley]

236. Howard dean gave people and money to my state and its in play

now, for the first time since the 80's. One howard dean is worth all the DLC bullshiters wrapped up.

[MethuenProgressive]

198. "An Obama candidacy would be a roll of the dice." - A quote from someone with more polictical savvy

...than all of DU rolled into one.

[Mooney]

199. ...and whose wife told him to shut the fuck up last week.

[roguevalley]

238. Oh yes, bill clinton. And who cheated on this great woman every

time he ever got. What does that tell you about his judgment and true feeling for his wife?

[Bjorn Against]

201. And Hillary and her supporters are more than happy to help Rove...

Why the hell do you present this shit as if it is legitimate? If Karl Rove does use it he is going to point right at the Hillary supporters who used it first and say "see many Democrats think this is a legitimate question to ask as well."

Hillary and her supporters seem more than happy to help Rove out these days.

[merh]

213. DLC and labor

that doesn't even compute

:rofl:

[MethuenProgressive]

226. Belgian Endive = Arugula

He's toast.

[wisteria]

231. People aren't going to buy into the character assassinations this time.

Just because you serve on the same committee and you have spoken to the man does not make you a communist. Rove's tricks are old hat and the Communist fear card is laughable.

[Hoof Hearted]

234. Think George McGovern, but less electable.

[Coexist]

237. tell Rove that Alabama called

it needs him to pop on by for some tea.

[GoldieAZ49]

242. Obama will make Dukakis, Mondale and McGovern look electable

in comparison

he is joke, a bad bad joke and we have been hoodwinked.

[Life Long Dem]

244. Obama was 7 or 8 yrs old when Ayers did whatever he did.

And this is stronger than Wright? Going on what? The recent polls that have Obama up by 20 points from Newsweek and down by some with Gallop? Or how about the 35,000 plus in Philly yesterday. What makes you think Ayers will or has any impact?

This is just more bullshit from Clinton. Did you know Ayers is a professor now? Tuesday... where are you?!!!

[dano81818]

246. it's funny how the authors of this "report"....

use karl rove to justify their negative attacks on obama.. think about it... the whole idea that hillary supporters HAVE to do this because rove would is just about the most most ridiculous thing i've ever heard! no one is forcing them to do ANYTHING! talk about refusing to take responsibility for one's actions! and, sorry for all the exclamation points!!!

[oasis]

247. k and r. Wake up Democrats.

[mnhtnbb]

249. On Friday night in liberal Chapel Hill, NC, a regular group with whom

we get together sat around discussing the election. To a person, we all agreed that whether it was Obama or Clinton, McCain would win. We were all quite dejected.

[zulchzulu]

251. Don't worry. We have anything KKKarl flings set on Smash To Bits...

The Ayers story is garbage.

Mayor Daley of Chicago and others have come out supporting Ayers. Add that if we're going to base someone to how they were on the same board for an affordable housing foundation and a $200 contribution to Obama's state senator bid, that's jackshit.

We can bring out McCain's Keating Five history that cost tax payers millions if homey wants to play that shit. Add that there will be 527s attacking McCain for his POW experiences. That ain't gonna be pretty for John... not that I support it, but you can bet it's coming.

KKKarl is irrelevant. This fear of KKKarl crap is coming from the Clinton campaign... if you think KKKarl wouldn't want to run against two Clintons with fresh scandals galore, then you're not paying attention.

[burythehatchet]

255. where would we be without fluffers?

[davidpdx]

258. Glad to hear the Clinton campaign and their supporters

are taking their cues from Karl Rove. I actually was likely going to be one of the few to show some compassion late next week when the Hillary campaign implodes. Given some of the posts lately, I'm less likely to care when you guys are crying your eyes out.

[nemo137]

261. As opposed to Hillary Clinton.

Hillary Clinton. Hillary Clinton, for whom the right has been sharpening the knives since 1992. Hillary Clinton, of the Clinton Body Count, which, by the by, people believe. Hillary Clinton, who spend 8 years having shit, not mud, but shit flung at her in the White House.

At this point, "your candidate will get smeared" is not a persuasive argument for either side.

[JoFerret]

264. The Obama campaign has set out to erase the Clintons

In so doing they will split the party and lose the election.
Not only the Clintons but also the legacies of Johnson and Carter.

Obama is the original empty suit surrounded by his older male mentors - Daschle, Kennedy, Kerry et al- all those men too weak to take on Bush and work to impeach him. but they can trash Hillary and they can trash Bill. And so they do.
Classic bullies.

And as a result they will fracture the democratic base. There will be a price to pay for their reckless narcissism. And we will all have to pay it.

[JTFrog]

265. Another opposite day in HillaryWorld.

[JoFerret]

272. I do think they want to erase the Clintons. Yes

Why else would Obama trash the Clinton economy? he should point to it as a exemplar of democratic success instead of trashing it. The man has no scruples.

[JTFrog]

275. You think that NAFTA and repeal of Glass-Stegall should be held up as a exemplar

of democratic success?

Bill was quite generous in laying the groundwork for economic disaster and the Bush administration brought it to fruition.

I assume you agree with Clinton's choice of Greenspan coming to the rescue on the foreclosure crisis as well?

The Clintons have no scruple, no morals and no leg to stand on when it comes to democratic values.

NAFTA
Welfare Reform
Telcom Deregulation
Repeal of Glass-Stegall
Iraq Sanctions/Bombings/Lies about WMD's

Throw in Hillary's latest contributions;

IWR
Kyl-Lieberman
Patriot Act
MCA
NCLB
Bankruptcy Bill
Voted against banning cluster bombs
Silence on Telcom immunity
Mark Penn

And that's just a small list of what I can come up with off the top of my head.

I really think Hillary supporters must have invented their own dictionary.

[OzarkDem]

282. The Ted Kennedy strategy - ego before party

Always a bad idea, always proven wrong.

[SanchoPanza]

273. Fear of Red Baiting?

One wonders where people get the idea that the DLC has no spine.

[OzarkDem]

281. I hate saying I agree w/ a DLC'er

But this scenario has been obvious for quite some time. Its breathtakingly simple. Its the elephant in the living room, so to speak.

It was also obviously the reason why those questions were asked in the last debate - to show leaders how poorly Obama scores w/ voters when these issues are brought up. It should have been a "come to Jesus" moment for the uncommitted super -D's.

Obama has a good political future ahead of him, if he doesn't commit career suicide by trying to force himself on the public too early. He's not ready and he's vulnerable to these kinds of attacks. If he finishes his first term and spends more time in the Senate, he'll have the chance to create a public record of accomplishments for himself that will help him overcome these things next time around.

Be patient Obama, and you build a record and reputation that will help you overcome this stuff. This is a contested race, these are real, strong Republicans. You can't win this one, so walk away for now and survive to run another day.

[Fluffdaddy]

292. "Be patient Obama, and you build a record " Well said

Obama is not ready for prime time

[TragedyandHope]

285. Lemme guess, Clinton supporter?

Sorry, it's not going to work this time. The influence of the FOX/Rove mentality is rapidly in decline and making their arguments for them only makes you one of them. Really. Bush has screwed the country so badly that even people susceptible to that kind of thing in the past are finally ready to move beyond that kind of garbage.

This kind of argument holds exactly no weight. If you want to support your candidate, support her positive characteristics, track record and policy positions. Parroting the RW argument is counter-productive for your candidate and for the Democratic party.

[eridani]

293. Yeppers. The Communist Threat is soooo series!?!?!

Better watch out, or you might get crushed under a statue of Lenin being toppled by a crowd of Latvians wearing Guess jeans.

[IsItJustMe]

297. Screw your fear. They will go after either candidate. We will just have to beat them, regardless

of their tactics. It is what it is.

[DrFunkenstein]

298. You Are The Only Person "Pushing The Ayers-Obama Link" ...Which is Why

Clinton suffers much more from the attacks made by her campaign than Obama does.

[Duder]

301. Fluffdaddy for Clinton?

Ironic.

As for the DLC they’re thankfully a minority of corporate elitists in the Democratic party that have exaggerated their importance both in the past and present. Clinton had no coattails. You don’t beat a Republican by being a Republican.

Rove is history and if you go back through the history of elections it’s always the new campaign manager that wins. This year it’s Axelrod. You’re peddling defeatist disaster negativity to the wrong party in 2008 because…

yes, we can and will win.

[Eurobabe]

311. Goodbye.

[ahill]

313. Attn. all DEMS! Boycott the Democratic Nat. Committee. Sign the Petition!

This is a petition pledging to cease all contributions to the National Party while retaining the right to donate to the candidates directly.

www.dncboycott.com

We feel that the rules governing the primary election are out of date and causing infighting within the party. This could have been avoided with a few fundemental rule changes to the process.

Please take the time to read the objectives. If you agree, please sign the petition and tell the ones you know. Our first goal is 100,000 signees.

Thanks
Joe

[suffragette]

314. Still ticked off because Obama didn't allow the DLC

to categorize him as DLC?

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20050321/berman

Going Nowhere: The DLC Sputters to a Halt

In May 2003 the centrist Democratic Leadership Council published its yearly list of "100 New Democrats to Watch." The DLC frequently puts out these lists as a way to publicly solidify its identification with the New Democratic movement within the Democratic Party. The 2003 list, however, contained a number of questionable additions, including then-Illinois State Senator Barack Obama. As a state senator, Obama had continually passed progressive legislation--a record that he vowed to add to when he began his run for the US Senate on a platform of clear opposition to the Patriot Act, the Iraq War and NAFTA, all positions anathema to the DLC. The puzzling addition caused The Black Commentator magazine to wonder, a month after the DLC list came out, whether Obama had been "corrupted" by the centrist group. Obama's reply to the Commentator was indicative of how the DLC plays the "New Democrat" card.

"Neither my staff nor I have had any direct contact with anybody at the DLC since I began this campaign a year ago," Obama wrote. "I don't know who nominated me for the DLC list of 100 rising stars, nor did I expend any effort to be included on the list.... I certainly did not view such inclusion as an endorsement on my part of the DLC platform." After realizing that his name appeared in the DLC's database, Obama asked to have it removed. The message was clear: The DLC needed Obama a lot more than Obama needed the DLC.