Just a small reminder that many Democrats out in the "real world" still like both candidates.

[Skinner]

I just got off the phone with my mother, a registered Democrat, who lives in Pennsylvania and is going to vote in the primary today. She is not a political junkie like me, but she pays close enough attention to have a pretty good idea what is going on.

She still doesn't know which candidate she is going to vote for.

She said that she has "always liked Hillary" and would "love to see a woman in the White House." She also said that she "likes Barack's message of change" and likes the fact that he doesn't take PAC money from corporations.

We talked for a bit about the campaign, and I said that I agree they are both great candidates, and it is really tough to choose. My advice was to just go with whatever her gut tells her. We agreed that whatever happens in the primaries, in the end we are going to have a great nominee.

Which is a good situation to be in. :thumbsup:

Good luck to both candidates and their supporters today.

[Tyler Durden]

1. THANK YOU Too!

So TIRED of the shit. I hope the Party recovers from this.

[maddezmom]

2. quite a few on DU as well

They just don't hang out in GD-P. ;)

[Adelante]

39. You've ABANDONED us

To our rotten selves :cry:

[Rosa Luxemburg]

3. yes

[xchrom]

4. recommend

i have strong feeling on the subject -- but i realize many see both in a positive light.

[msongs]

5. then why allow deliberate lies on DU about a candidate?

this "obliterate" issue: the obama "fans" deliberately misquote and lie about what was Clinton said yet that is allowed here. and I don't even like clinton.

let us hope obama is NOTHING at all like his hateful supporters on DU.

Msongs

[Zachstar]

11. Trying to derail the topic already eh? More Conspiricy theories?

[Tinksrival]

6. Good words!

And I hope the Super delegates vote the will of the people! Let the voting begin! We are going to kick McCain's ass!

[cali]

7. yep. good democrats support both candidates. Having said that

I think certain results would be better for dems than others. For instance, if Obama comes within a few points of Clinton, that may well be the end of it. And the sooner we have a nominee, the better.

[Maddy McCall]

16. I disagree with you on "the sooner, the better."

Yeah, maybe for DU.

But certainly not for Democrats. Our two candidates have done an awesome job of waking up the American electorate and putting progressive issues before them.

People in rural conservative areas now see universal health insurance as an entitlement. They are against the privitization of Social Security...

If we select a candidate today, there will be very little media attention given to our candidate until the convention. Just like McCain is getting almost no attention.

I'm for keeping the discussion open. Nowhere else am I hearing that this primary season is bad for Democrats. It may wear on a few DUers' nerves because of the tenor of this forum...

Otherwise, it's a great thing.

[cali]

23. First of all, there will be tons of coverage on both nominees.

that's historically true. Secondly, you're not paying attention if you think this is only a concern of DUers. Howard Dean ring a bell? And I know a lot of people who are sick to death of the primary season and concerned that this war of attrition will OBLITERATE any chance of a dem winning the White House in November. I think it's fine- as long as it all ends in June.

[Maddy McCall]

24. No there won't. Proportionally, look at how little coverage McCain is getting.

Historically, there's relative silence leading up to the convention, compared to what we're seeing now.

As for Howard Dean, this is his first presidential primary as chair. I'd not use him as proof that this primary season is somehow destructive.

And, finally, you cite anecdotal evidence...since we're going to do that, my mom and I chatted about this yesterday as we were out and about town. She laughed at the idea that a few people are complaining about primary fatigue. She's 73, so I'll trust her judgement over a few political neophytes.

And, as for your "obliterate" comment: read up on the foreign policy strategy of deterrence. It's been around for half a century. Hillary certainly didn't invent it.

[cali]

26. McCain is receiving relatively little coverage because there's a brawl

going on between two historic candidates. It's beyond ridculous to compare his lack of coverage now to what will happen after the dems have a candidate. The two situations aren't remotely comparable. You really need to both educate yourself on the facts and take a logic course. Furthermore, I included anecdotal evidence because YOU did it first. You said no one was concerned about this outside of DU. Hell, that's not even anecdotal evidence; merely rank speculation, Ms. McCall. Oh, and you might also bone up on the uses of rhetoric. Hilly was saber rattling to impress/inspire fear. You don't use language like that unless you're trying to look tough and pumped up with tetesterone.

Have a bit more anecdotal evidence. My mother's in her 80s and has been a delegate to 4 dem conventions. She's been worried about it going to the convention for weeks. Try telling her she's a political neophyte. Oh, and she supports Obama. She has never had much use for hillary dearest. And it's not sexism, sorry. My mother worked for Ella Grasso and was an early feminist.

[LSK]

42. the media is not discussing universal healthcare, they are discussing flag pins

and someones reverend and what the latest idiotic surregate said.

[NC_Nurse]

8. A great reminder that most people are not as invested as we are. At least, not

yet! I plan to enjoy the results tonight, even if my candidate doesn't put it away.
We are witnessing a new wave of political involvement by the public at large and
I'm am damn glad! :bounce:

[4themind]

9. I hope that "many"

is enough to carry the day in the general, if those polls about "would not vote for X" are true, and they don't heal before the election, then we're all toast, either way.

[Maddy McCall]

10. In GDP, it never was about liking one and hating another.

It's been, for the past four months, about spiting the opposing candidate's supporters. It's an easy trap to fall into.

I like both candidates. I prefer one over the other.

The microcosm of DU is certainly not representative of the bigger world. What's going on in GDP is a battle between supporters...an ugly one.

[whatchamacallit]

12. How'd you get a mom like that?

My mum hasn't voted... ever.

[SIMPLYB1980]

13. I agree.

I will vote for Obama if he wins the nomination, and I expect most Obama supporters will do the same if Clinton wins the nomination.

K&R

[SaveAmerica]

14. So, who'd she vote for?

;-)

[InsultComicDog]

15. Absolutely

a lot of people like them both and are looking at who they think will beat McCain.

[Oceansaway]

17. TOUCHE !!..n/t

[Bonobo]

18. What is this "real world" you speak of?

I have no idea what you're talking about.

You mean, including GD, the topic forums and the Lounge too?

:wtf:

[LisaM]

50. LOL, you are so right.

We're like those people in the Narnia books - the underground people in "The Silver Chair" - who are slaving away under the Narnian's feet and no one even knew they were there, until one day they popped up out of a hole in the ground!

[kentuck]

19. I think of what a strong ticket this would be combined...

Hillary is very strong in the industrial NE, including PA. Obama is strong in the Midwest and parts of the South. They are both very popular on the West Coast. It would be a tremedously strong ticket.

[bigwillq]

20. Yes I do.

I like both our candidates well enough. I am not 100 percent for Obama or 100 percent for Clinton. I voted for DK in my primary b/c I feel he is the most progressive, and the one most closest to my beliefs, of those that were DEM contenders.

However, I think either Obama or Clinton would make a wonderful president.

[ericgtr]

21. My sister is the same way

and my brother-in-law will probably vote for Obama but could go either way as well. They considering putting a sign for each candidate up in their front yard here in Oregon.

[MaineDem]

22. Yep, still a lot of undecideds.

I was until not too long ago. I actually like both candidates.

Thanks for the reminder and I echo your best wishes to both campaigns and their supporters.

[Bluenorthwest]

25. Here we don't vote for another month

The calls for ending the contest are misplaced. The contest is healthy for the Party, like it or not, and while many don't grasp the dynamics at all, it takes both of our candidates to make a show, and making a show is very important. In my state the GOP is broke and the Democratic Party is energized. We have just now started seeing commercials and discussing the Primay with those who are not addicted to the game. As a Democrat, I promote voting Democratic. That starts with voting. In my life many are too cynical to really be involved, or just too liberal to be heard much. Getting those people to vote is my gig. I will promote the candidate they are most likely to get up and vote for, based on that person, not on myself. I want them to vote in my Party. Period.
Here it is all about the poster's egos, people can push a button and get a reaction, for many who have not had much real world attention, that must be a real hoot. But I say that is what hurts the Party. Postings that are not attempting to win votes or support our Party in general I see as destructive to the Party.
Many people in both camps are over zealous in criticism of others and lacking in self inspection. I was among many Democrats recently, and I found that most are Skinner's mother, and I also found that many of the ardents on both sides are woefully uninformed. I'd say I'm undecied and get 'how can you vote for her, she voted for the Patriot Act' and I'd say, well so did he. And they did not know that. I'd hear, ' his minister is so bitter' and I'd say well, so am I and I agree with Wright more than I agree with Obama.
One thing I seriously take issue with is one of the camps attempting to paint themselves as activists and the other camp as the same as Bush. Voting for a candidate is not activism. I know many activists and they all support either Obama or Hillary, none support McCain. But when they say 'activists' are for Obama, while at the same time ragging on GLBTQ activists who hold the candidates' feet to the fire for being activists, they are hypocrites trying to co-opt the hard work of many people who may agree with them or may not. If that camp is activist, why is it they get so bent out of shape when they see actual activism? Obama has in fact said we must make the changes, so supporting Obama would actually mean being an activist and taking him to task when he is not correct. Same for Hillary.
Question away I say. Praising a candidate is a servile and empty excersize in my book. Condemning a good Democrat for running against your choice is disgusting. Disgusting. Teddy Kennedy ran against the Incumbent Carter all the way to the Convention with a gap in delegates far greater than what we see today. Teddy tried to get the delegates to switch to him during the Convention. Was Teddy trying to silence the will of the people, or was he running a campaign for President and trying to win? But Ted endorses Obama and Ted did what he did in 1980. A delegate gap of almost a thousand in the end, but he fought down to the wire. Against a sitting Democratic President.
I may wind up flipping a coin, as both have crossed lines I can not really cross for them. But I'm a Democrat so I'll vote for one of them. That is Democracy. We pick and then we back the pick. But first we get to vote. All of us.

[EFerrari]

27. I've thought about this in the hours since you posted it and

I'm jealous. The people I know off line are nearly as polarized as this forum has been. I'm going to try not to talk to my mom today so there is zero chance of an argument. And that's sad because she's my favorite political junkieness buddy, even more than my sons or my friends because she enjoys theory and strategery.

Hillary stole my mom!

lol

[bleever]

63. That proves

she's evil.

:hug:

[onenote]

28. damn you and your damn rational thinking!!

you'll never fit in around here


:sarcasm:


smilie added because the number of sarcasm impaired people here these days is frightening

[beachmom]

29. Which is why the primary does NOT predict the general election.

A lot of people who just watch a little news are convinced that if Hillary win PA today, Obama will lose PA in the G.E. That is not true. The Hillary voters, most of them, will vote for Obama and vice versa. The polls only show short term passion; most Democrats are going to vote for the DEMOCRAT in the G.E.

[barb162]

30. Thank you!

[Bigleaf]

31. I don't believe that there are that 'many' Dems in the 'real world' who like both candidates.

As a matter of fact, in most if not all political races, the majority choose sides and tend to like their candidate and dislike the other(s) for a variety of reasons. That's just my opinion.

[DemExpat]

32. Great reminder today. My friends and acquaintances are split about 50/50....

with never ANY animosity involved in polite but spirited discussions.

What a difference to here on DU!

Both are really great candidates. :kick:

DemEx

[Bucky]

33. Screw it! Come November I'm writing in Sigourney Weaver!

She's hot!

[flowomo]

34. Yep... I was still uncertain as I went to vote this morning....

I was leaning in one direction but found myself debating the strengths and weaknesses of each candidate one last time. It was not an easy choice because I like them both. I am comfortable with my ultimate choice but would not have been unhappy going the other way.

[sandnsea]

35. Gosh, if people are lied to

it's no wonder they don't know what the hell they're voting for. I don't understand why so many people are afraid to face the truth or tell the truth. The woman is a nightmare, there are 100 different reasons she shouldn't be the candidate - hell her "security umbrella" is reason enough in itself. If Bush said that, this place would come unglued. Hillary says it, and people still call her a good candidate. Sorry. :crazy:

[izzybeans]

36. Many Democrats here do too. Shhhh.

Oh no I've said too much.

[Terran]

37. Injecting sanity and perspective into the fray?!

What the heck is WRONG with you?? :rofl:

[OneBlueSky]

38. I respect that, but there are just as many that don't particularly like either . . .

some of us don't see either candidate as having the intestinal fortitude to do the one thing that's required to turn things around in this nation -- take on the corporations . . . whether it's the war, or healthcare, or loss of jobs, or environmental degradation, or contaminated food, or election fraud, or whatever, some of the prime moving forces behind every one of our critical issues is corporate greed and the lack of corporate regulation . . .

unless a president is willing to enlist in the class war firmly on the side of the people and against the corporate/government oligarchy, no real change will ever happen . . . and since both Clinton and Obama receive tons of money from corporate interests, the chances of them doing things like strictly re-regulating corporations and demanding that they, for example, clean up their environmental messes are slim and none, imo . . .

[cbayer]

40. I'm with your mom.

In my real world, a lot of people are happy with either choice. Those that have a strong preference are all able to have a rational discussion. I don't personally know anyone like many of the people posting on DU.

On the other hand, I doubt that many of these posters behave in the RW like they behave here.

[Beaverhausen]

41. Here here

Your mom is good people.

[Texas Hill Country]

43. k&R

[Texas Hill Country]

44. k&R

[Psyop Samurai]

45. Hate to spoil your tea party, but this feel-good stuff doesn't fly.

But then, I'm NOT a political junkie. I'm a citizen and a victim of criminals.

Your mom has a pretty good idea what's going on, but still doesn't know which candidate she is going to vote for? Interesting, though not possible. You advised her to go with her gut? How about going with facts and evidence?

I'm in Pennsylvania, as are my elderly parents. I presented them with the facts and evidence (an abbreviated version to be sure, but facts and evidence nonetheless). We are in agreement what's to be done.

The statement that we will have a great nominee no matter what happens in the primaries is patently false. You didn't notice there was a war, did you? And I don't mean the premeditated genocide on the other side of the globe. For real facts and information, I would recommend a site called democraticunderground.com. Good luck.

edit to add:

What you refer to as the "real" world is what I call the pretend world.

[uponit7771]

46. I agree, we're atypical voters.

[suston96]

47. Exit polls are showing that Democrats like both candidates almost equally.....nt

[musicblind]

48. Thank you, this democrat likes both candidates. I may be voting for

Hillary, and I do support her... but I, believe it or not, actually do like Obama as well, and I will fight for him in November if it turns out he is the nominee. Which does seem more likely at this point. I have never understood why liking one candidate means you have to DISLIKE the other. :hug:

[Lil Missy]

49. I like different aspects of each, and will gladly support either one in the General Election. n/t

[pinto]

51. kick - tonight's about PA Democratic voters. Hard fought primary in a good, important Dem state.

:kick:

[blonndee]

52. Good news indeed. Thanks for the reminder.

[cliffordu]

53. K&R

Howdy, Skinner!!

See?? I didn't even flame ya!!!

:toast:




By the way - Thanks for a lovely Democratic Underground!!!

:patriot:

[BootinUp]

54. I will glady rec this thread.

Good thinking Mama Skinner and Skinner.

[Sparkly]

55. K&R

First thread I've dared even click on tonight! :hi:

[Zuiderelle]

56. Here's one. This place is certainly not representative of the real world, fortunately.

:thumbsup:

[bridgit]

57. Yeah, that's what I say: good luck to both. And thank you from mentioning the "real world"

:)

[ananda]

58. Either Obama or Clinton will be..

.. lightyears better than Bush and McSame.

[Lebam in LA]

59. Thank You:)

[SPKrazy]

60. We have a couple of good candidates

and I haven't made up my mind that either of them is better than the other. One day one will appeal more than the other to me.

They both have strengths and weaknesses that I see and I will just say I will support whoever is the nominee. I hate to think that as a party, we might have civil war so to speak, but the fact is that both candidates are very close in delegate counts and I think it is unlikely that either will say "oh I better get out of the way" so we have a wild ride ahead of us.

I tend to stay out of GD-P usually because it just seems like it is a H. vs. B. place, and a lot of vehement anger comes out.

I'm angry about the war, energy prices, food prices, job loss, problems that are not unique to the U.S. economy and are worsening worldwide.

I just hope that whoever the nominee is can a) articulate some solutions to these problems, and b) beat the hell out of McLame!

Great post Skinner!

:thumbsup:

[DeepModem Mom]

61. I made the same point in a thread earlier today. In fact, I myself like them both.

Thanks, Skinner!

[bleever]

62. My mom's primary is next,

and I already envisaged our conversation about it following the same lines.

"Love thy enemy?" Hell, love thy friend!

[K8-EEE]

64. Sadly, I am no longer in that category.

When I voted in my (CA) primary I would have been fine with either Clinton or Obama, but I've been increasingly disgusted by the Clintons and their Karl Rove type tactics -- to the point where I wuold have a tough time voting for her in the GE at this point.

[Stand and Fight]

65. Thanks for posting this...

I fear many on here forget this all too often in the heat of their passion for their candidate of choice.

[LibertyorDeath]

66. "a pretty good idea what is going on"

"she pays close enough attention to have a pretty good idea what is going on.

She still doesn't know which candidate she is going to vote for."

It doesn"t take a rocket scientist to see Clinton is a

Democrat In Name Only,

My daughter is Seven and she can see it for fuck sakes.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

67. Thanks for this post, Skinner. To those who "hate" either candidate, this quote seems

apropos:


“Hatred is self-punishment. Hatred is the coward’s revenge for being intimidated.” - Hosea Ballou


My Democratic friends, family and coworkers are enjoying this primary and, even better, talking about it and paying attention.

:kick: