Why I would choose some Clinton Supporters to be in my fox hole.

[grantcart]

Let's start with the obvious.

Neither side has a monopoly of virtue and there have been some very obnoxious supporters of both sides.

There are some Clinton supporters: Bigtree and Tom Rinaldo for example (I know there are others but I have a hard time keeping track of all of the names here) who have continued to fight for Hillary on highly principled terms.

And they have done so against a deluge, a flood, a Tsunami of opposition. I admire that. I admire the fact that they continue to pursue their conviction and do so in an admirable way against incredible opposition. They have searched for high ground and the high path.


Unfortunately there are some Clinton supporters here who, it seems to me, hate Obama and have packed their bags and are simply trying to stir up the hornets nest as much as they can before the title 'preferred nominee' is formalized. It also seems that their activity is organized (possibly from another site). There are also republican trouble makers who pose as Clinton supporters to continue to divide us.


One of the sad realities about Clinton's changing of the metric and Rovian tactics is that it forces her loyal supporters to try and justify unjustifiable positions and remarks. Who at DU can possibly try and hold up the 'obliteration of Iran' as a positive development? Her disappointing explanation for her IWR has little possible positive spin beyond 'nuanced'.



For the Clinton supporters who have remained loyal and have kept to the high road - in some cases a higher road than I traveled - I admire you and wish that your candidate reflected the high qualities you so clearly demonstrate.


I hope that after Oregon we will be in the same fox hole because there are some Clinton supporters who personify the qualities of enlightened progressive world view, persistence, patience, loyalty and long term commitment to the principles of the Democratic Party.


Others may have particular Clinton supporters they admire but because of my 'half-heimers' memory I have over looked. If you do please add them below.

[onenote]

1. well put

and it bears mentioning again that there are, sadly, a number of obama supporters here who act like spoiled brats. I try to criticize them when I can.

But you are right, underneath the playground taunting and childish bickering that goes on (and that I too sometimes get sucked into) there are a number of solid citizens -- good Democrats -- on both sides of this fight.

[cliffordu]

2. Another fine insight, grantcart. Well done!!

:patriot:

[tularetom]

3. There are some DU'ers I've always respected who have turned out to be

rabid clinton partisans. While I despise the clinton campaign and its architects, I hold no malice toward anybody here. I will make my decisions about the general election after our party has selected its candidate. If at that time I feel that I cannot support the party's choice, I will cease posting here for the duration.

I would hope others reach a similar conclusion. We don't need bomb throwers here.

[Tatiana]

4. I would love to have principled fighters in my corner like bigtree and Tom Rinaldo.

I'd also like to have maddiejoan on my side in a fight.

The day that we all come together on the same page and of one accord (to beat John McCain) is the beginning of our pathway to a landslide Democratic victory both for the Presidency and downticket as well.

[Egnever]

5. You are a class act Grant

Me not so much :evilfrown:

I have to agree with you though on your two choices.

[ossman]

6. I'm imagining another hole to shove them into...

[grantcart]

7. you do realize that there are 100 other threads that you could have gone to

and dumped on Clinton Supporters right?

[Political Heretic]

12. K... you're not going to be on my all star team. :P

No team 4 u!

[Eurobabe]

8. I admire...

all the Hillary supporters who have had the sense to change sides. :hi:

Some have even come off of my ignore list. I'm not naming names. :applause:

[Olney Blue]

9. This is a wonderful post- thank you! It gives me more hope that we will

all come together just fine after the primaries!

[bigbrother05]

10. This is one reason I come to DU

to read thoughtful posts, plus reasoning, logic, Grantcart thank you for all your work

[grantcart]

33. thank you bb

[Political Heretic]

11. My all-star team would include a solid mixture of both some clinton and obama supporters

There are some real gems on both sides. :)

[FlyingSquirrel]

13. There are quite a few that I don't mind

goldcanyonaz, Auntie Bush and maddiejoan come to mind... not sure who else. I haven't gone crazy like some and put 300 on my ignore list, but I have started building it up lately I'm afraid. Even some who were on the same side when Edwards was in. But I'm gonna start afresh once we get a nominee. If I'm lucky I'll never have to ignore anyone again after that.

[grantcart]

16. Yes I agree with goldcanyonaz and maddiejoan are interesting and sometimes very funny.

[hogwyld]

28. Kick and I also admire the fairness of Rinsd

She/He has always defended Hillary with a sense of class that is becoming rarer and rarer these days. On both sides.

[ShortnFiery]

14. If they continue to "defend the indefensible" they will eventually be willing to

throw us "under the bus" too ... oh it may take a while but that's the way it is when totalitarian rule is governed with "feigned indignation" "fear mongering" and "false outrage."

Sorry, but I would not choose ANY "Hillary" supporter to share my fox hole and that now includes former general Wes Clark. IMO, his honor has been seriously compromised by continuing to support "The Clintons" who repetitively LIE and demonstrate morally bankrupt behaviors. :shrug:

[grantcart]

15. we aren't talking about surrogates, sychophants or those who are obviously angling for a job

We are talking about some of the Clinton supporters who have continued to stand by their candidate and at the same time said nice things about Obama. They are our friends.

[ShortnFiery]

18. Point taken. However, I wish the thoughtful Clinton supporters would consider all their lies ...

and there are MANY? The last WHOPPER that HRC vividly describes "Sniper Fire" should be the deal breaker. Please consider?

My late father was given a battlefield commission in Italy during WWII and my brother fought with the 101st Airborne in Vietnam. Trust me as a person who IS close to and friends of those who have TRULY been "under fire" - you don't forget and you don't "confabulate" = imagine it.

HRC flatly lied about something that our troops GENUINELY face day to day serving US. No, that ONE LIE would be driven home by the republicans and that attack would stick. Lying about being under sniper fire is not TREASONOUS like many combat vets consider "Jane Fonda's trip to North Vietnam" but it's disgusting to those who truly had to face such dangers.

Please excuse my bias - honorable Hillary supporters - because I can't understand how you can IMO, continue to "defend the indefensible."

[grantcart]

20. Thank you for your reply.

My point is that these are not THEIR lies. They are the spin that their candidate has bequeathed to them.

And many have tried to support it with reluctance. Others have not picked these offensive lines up and tried simply to find

higher ground.

Even if they tried to defend their candidate on shaky grounds can't we, in victory be magnanimous. If you believe the math, and

Obama supporters do (lol), then you can see the fat lady has just arrived in the parking lot.

In the upcoming battle wouldn't be nice to have some people around that are prepared to hang around and fight it out even if it gets

ugly?


None of the Clinton DUers were in Bosnia. None of them wrote Clinton's speeches. Can you imagine how uncomfortable it must feel

to have invested in your candidate only to see them stumble. Wouldn't you want to rush to help your candidate?


Obama isn't perfect. Only because he said so. When he puts his shoe right into the middle of it I am going to be there to say

it doesn't stink, that he did it on purpose, that having done it reveals a greater truth that is valuable for all to see, that those

were ugly shoes and that I am glad he did it because now he can throw them away, that he did it because he couldn't see because he

was carrying a load of packages for an elderly blind womman and he couldn't see where her dog was dropping, that . . . well you

get the idea.




Is it really fair then to dismiss Clinton supporters for doing the same thing, especially when some of them would post threads that

complimented Obama and went out of their way to never say anything inflamatory about him?

[ShortnFiery]

22. You're absolutely correct. I commend you for your empathetic spirit and humanitarian thoughts.

Yes, even though maddiejoan once called me "fire plug" :P :rofl: ... oh, I hold nothing, in particular, against the HRC supporters who don't automatically default to mean-spirited personal attacks directed AT another DU member vice the public candidates.

Yes, we all must PULL together against the republicans for the G.E.

Understood. :-)

[cbayer]

17. You are a hero.

You and your post represent to me what the Democratic party is all about. I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart.

:toast:

[grantcart]

21. your very kind

[bhikkhu]

19. Rec 10. There is talent and insight and passion on our side

(as Democrats, that is) and I would certainly hate to lose any of it...

[grantcart]

24. tks

[SunsetDreams]

23. man I love this post!!!

Thank you! I cannot wait until we come together as a party and kick some Repuke butt in Nov. I have noticed several Hillary supporters, that I've thought, man, I would like to strike up a conversation with that person....I wish we were on the same side. I don't think I am all that familiar with Tom Rinaldo's post, I'll keep an eye out. Bigtree has impressed me though for sure. There are a few others here but, for the life of me I can't think of their screen names. But people who I've seen post sensibly and rationally. We can disagree without being disagreeable.

There are some supposed Obama supporters that have made me scratch my head.

I know it's the heat of the primary, but I honestly think some of these people do not really support either candidate, but come here to stir up trouble. The vitriol in their posts is mind boggling that they could actually be Democrats. I surely hope not, because if they are, our party is truly in trouble.

Sorry if I'm rambling, I tend to do that late at night lol

[SunsetDreams]

25. K&R

[crankychatter]

26. The problem as I see it is the shit-stirrers and Clinton supporters are indistinguishable to me

I've been in danger

and I wouldn't trust these people with my back for five seconds

You're an old hand here grant and I always learn from you and appreciate your posts

I understand it's all (pleezjeezus) going to wind down soon and true Dems need to rally up and get with the program

so I "get" that and think I "get" this posting

but you're on your own... trust them? nah... not gonna happen here.

I'll be making phone calls and registering new voters in Missouri... explaining to people from ACROSS the political spectrum just HOW a President Obama will be the best one to represent THEM and true U.S. interests.

I think we could have the largest landslide in US History if certain people would wake up and smell the damn coffee.

Every single day this goes on... is an outrage to all sensibility and a threat to the world

[grantcart]

27. thank you for your post

We don't have to distinquish them. I named a few but also said I was too senile to remember which was which - I am more interested in the ones who will put themselves into that category.




But let us proceed on the premise that there are some that you do want to be on our side - remember now when virtually everyone

turned on them they didn't get soft and run away - would it not make sense to make it easier for the good ones to stay and join

the battle. In the end they will sort it out. Some will stay and some will go. Is there any harm in opening the door a little bit?

Is there any advantage in throwing out the wheat with the chaff?

[crankychatter]

29. nah... you're my role model man

u go, dawg

[TheDoorbellRang]

30. Some Clinton supporters I admire or respect or enjoy

Tom Rinaldo. I've never seen any but thoughtful, positive posts from Tom. Don't know anyone else on either side I could say the same about.

bigtree. Takes a special person to continuously contribute positive information for both candidates.

maddiejoan. Always stays cool under fire. I enjoy her arguments.

rug. One of the more subtle humorists on board. His posts often have me laughing out loud, but they're usually so short they often go unnoticed by most.

Maddy McCall. Does have posts to try to lighten things up now and then, which I think we all could use.

There's others, but those are the ones that spring to mind right now.

Thanks for this post, grantcart. It's good to step back and stop the bickering when we can and accentuate the positive.

[grantcart]

32. thanks

Maddy has a hilarious sense of humor

[maddiejoan]

31. Rest assured

(and I follow my candidate's lead in this)

I will be STRONGLY behind whoever winds up being the Democratic nominee,

[Tom Rinaldo]

34. Thank you grantcart for your very gracious sentiments

I will be there strong for Obama if he wins our nomination. My commitment to support Obama in that event is not in any way conditioned by a need for a reciprocal declaration from any Obama supporters for Clinton should she becomes our nominee. Everyone will reach their own decisions, but for me it is easy. I would be honored to fight for Obama against McCain if it comes to that.

[grantcart]

35. I look forward to it.

[Bonobo]

36. I would never be in a foxhole period.

[Beacool]

37. Rovian tactics????????

If he can't even take a few mild jabs from a fellow Democrat, how is he going to deal with the Republicans if he becomes the nominee? Hillary is much tougher and prepared to handle the job.

He has a weak jaw and an even weaker resume.

[ccharles000]

38. I am a Hillary supporter.

I do not hate Obama. I think he is a nice guy and will vote for him if he is the nominee.