The attacks on Dean could work to his favor in the General Election

[Walt Starr]

It's a simple equation. All of the garbage is being outed and vetted right now. If Dean continues down the path he is on, all of these phony baloney garbage attacks will have all been out there for a long time before the Re-pubs can sink their teeth into them.

"That's old news."

"George, we went over that time and again during the primaries. The voters have heard that nonsense and they know the validity of your accusations."

"Ladies and gentlemen of the press, it's fairly obvious to me that pResident Bush's campaign staffers failed to pay attention to the Democratic Party primaries because that wasa brought up by <insert Dem candidate's name here> before Super Tuesday and we explained it then. Of course, if you look at the poll numbers now, maybe that will explain why they appear to be desperately re-hashing old attacks in the hopes that they can do something to turn around their miserable failure of a campaign."

So, I'm through fighting the garbage attacks because I can see the Dean campaign does a very good job of answering the accusations and the accusations will have been fully vetted before *'s team can ever get their hands on them.

Fire retardent clothing fully in place. Flame away.

[grytpype]

1. It looks like the more Dean is attacked...

... the stronger he gets.

[glitch]

2. People are fed up with the establishment, so when the establishment attack

Dean should be smiling.

[KaraokeKarlton]

9. He does get stronger the more he's attacked

He's always been that way. That alone makes him the best one to go up against Bush because all Bush can do is attack. His policies suck, he has done an awful job on damn near everything he's touched. It's not like he can point to a great record or anything. All Bush has is the money to attack the Democrat nonstop. Dean has proven that such attacks just help him. If Dean is the nominee, he will point out all of Bush's failures and talk about his great record of accomplishments in Vermont. Bush will just attack, attack, attack which will energize Dean's supporters even more, cause them to send Dean even more money, fight harder and nothing sticks to Dean anyhow. Making Dean the nominee essentially neutralizes Bush's ONLY campaign weapon.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

18. It's "cognitive dissonance." Only works w/emotionally attached" supporters

It doesn't work with "casual" or more "logical" supporters. The majority of Dean's supporters are not "issues-driven" people (the Progressive ones, anyways). This is an "emotional" phenomenon. In addition, only a "long term" supporter will become that tied in to a candidate.

http://www.afirstlook.com/archive/cogdiss.cfm

In addition, the danger is that people who are the most hard-core supporters are also the most likely to be "vehemently" opposed and angry should that person become disappointed. THEY can be a candidate's worst nightmare...

[Cocoa]

3. that applies more to Kerry than to Dean

what's more "phony-baloney" than Skull and Bones, and the thrown medals?

Maybe to Clark, too, for the Hugh Shelton smear.

Dean is getting a lot of conventional political criticism.

[patricia92243]

8. The saying "What doesn't kill Dean, only makes him stronger is correct

[Cocoa]

11. here's how it's incorrect

the world doesn't revolve around Howard Dean. That statement, and a lot of Dean's campaign, is too Dean-centric.

[rucky]

4. You're assuming Dean's not going to say anything controversial in the GE

The Dem strategy has been to take everything Dean says & match it with something else he said - most of the time out of context. Then the Dean defense team steps in.

Dean does play good defense. Trouble is, with each attack - GOP or otherwise - it's that much less offense he gets to play. Dean's gotten this far by controlling the debate. That part of his momentum has been slowing down because of the constant attacks.

In the future, Dean may do well to take a page from the * playbook: Dismiss attacks as silly partisanship, or politics as usual, and move forward.

[Walt Starr]

17. That applies to all of the candidates

Yours included.

[rucky]

23. I don't have one yet...

but Dean's on the short list.

:)

[Walt Starr]

31. When you get one, it applies to that one too

:)

[lurk_no_more]

5. I wish you luck

You an't seen nothing yet!




” JAFO”

[Dookus]

6. a few thoughts...

First, this could be said of any candidate. I don't see why this would apply to Dean more than anybody else.

Second, this only works provided the attacks are, in fact, adequately dealt with. Just dismissing them as "we've been over that" probably won't cut it.

Third, and most important, the attacks (against ANY nominee) will not likely be specifically historical, biographical or policy-oriented. They'll be personality-oriented. Think back to Gore. Those kind of attacks are much harder to confront, especially if the media go along with the perception.

[Walt Starr]

10. Thank you, you are absolutely correct it applies to them all.

I used Dean as Dean has, in my opinion, been attacked more than the rest of the field combined.

[barbaraann]

7. Ordinary Dems have been begging elected Dems to fight since

the 2000 election; but with few exceptions, elected Dems have only enabled the BFEE and represented corporations and the wealthy.

Many, many ordinary Democrats feel betrayed and see the attacks on Dean as evidence of the betrayal they have been feeling.

[blm]

12. Dean isn't getting 5% of what he has coming.

The media still has him mostly protected and keeps presenting him as a victim, just like they did Bush.

They won't focus on his scores of gaffes, inconsistencies, lies and distortions until he is the nominee.

[Walt Starr]

13. That applies to all of the candidates

Yours included.

[blm]

26. Really? Some others aren't as vulnerable on as many points

as Dean is.

And the Dean campaign HAS been throwing bombs at them since January. In fact, DOCTOR Dean made sure to attack Kerry even while he was OFF the campaign trail during his cancer surgery and recovery period.


Most of the other campaigns had no desire to attack other Dems and had much less experience at it. Dean had many years of attacking Democrats under his belt, especially the progressive Dems.

[Walt Starr]

32. Nope, all of the candidates are equally vulnerable

The only one who is possibly more vulnerable is yours.

[sandnsea]

14. There you go

Now you get it.

[ThirdWheelLegend]

15. His actions and words...

Sure baseless attacks may wear off by the GE. They should. As they should with any candidate that is the eventual nominee.

However, if Dean is the nominee, Dean's dishonest and misleading tactics and the way he treated his fellow dems will not be forgotten. Progressives and lefty liberals alike may not be so swayed to hold their nose and vote for deception(D) over deception(R).

TWL


TWL

[Walt Starr]

16. That applies to all of the candidates

Yours included.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

21. This is only something that works with long-term supporters who are

"emotionally attached" and make "emotional" decisions - based on their feelings. The "logical" supporters will mainly look at his record and the issues and pick them apart. They don't look at personality....

Logical thinkers are more likely going to go to Clark or Kerry (the intellectuals) who operate "logically."

[askew]

24. Wow, that is an insult.

Personally, as a Dean supporter, I did approach this logically from an issues standpoint and I selected Dean. I selected Dean, because while Kerry may have been a great liberal through 2000, he hasn't voted that way since. And Kerry has not represented what I want in a President or a Democrat on issues or character since then. As for Clark, I am not going to support someone who has never held an elected office for President of the U.S. I think that is foolhardy. And while he has some great positions on paper, that is all they are right now. I am concerned with domestic issues and I do not believe that he has the experience to work with a bi-partisan congress to move legislation, to work a media that will be against his agenda and to play the game with special interests. This takes experience that you do not get in the military. I think Dean has that experience. He also has a strong record of being pro-choice, balancing the budget, providing healthcare to his citizens and owning unpopular positions (civil unions bill). That is what I am looking for in a President and Democrat, which is why I am supporting Dean.

[hellhathnofury]

27. Great post. n/t

[JPJones]

19. Karl Rove

If Max Cleland is unpatriotic, what will he do to Dean?

$200,000,000 worth of 'America's funniest Dean gaffes'.

[HFishbine]

20. Karl Rove, not a factor

The boogey man will have resigned because of the Plame affair by May.

[Walt Starr]

33. This applies to all of the candidates

Including yours.

[JPJones]

40. Or not

'America's funniest Lieberman gaffes'

'America's funniest Gephardt gaffes'

I don't think so.

'America's funniest Dean gaffes'

Now that works.

"If you know much about the Bible -- which I do --..."

[Walt Starr]

41. I do

All of them are making gaffes. Every last damn one of them. The only reason anybody is paying attention to Dean's is he's hands down with little doubt going to be the nominee.

Yep, you can certainly pull this bullshit on any of the candidates, moreos on yours than any other (whoever the fuck yours is).

[windansea]

22. cool

all Dean supporters should slather me with praise for my relentless attacks
:)

[Scott Lee]

25. should be qualified with "substantive attacks"

No offense there.

[Walt Starr]

34. You attack on an obscure internet message board

Your attacks have infinitesimal to no effect on the overall primary race. other than to infuriate supporters of the candidate you attack who post and lurk on these boards.

[w4rma]

36. And waste our time which could be spend writing letters. (n/t)

[Walt Starr]

38. Good point!!!

I've taken to limiting my time on DU, as evidenced by the recent replies to a thread I started yesterday!

;)

[windansea]

37. DU is obscure??

hmmmm...that's debatable...been getting a lot of press lately

you realize that lots of people just lurk...never even join or post

I'd imagine that more than a few eyes have been opened by reading pros and cons posted at DU

If the effects of posting ones opinion are so INFINTESIMAL ...why do you bother??

[Walt Starr]

39. Yes, DU is obscure

I doubt if even 5 % of registered voters have even heard about it and less than 1% have actually come here. Certainly less than 1 one-hundredth of 1% are registered here, and that last figure isn't even accounting for tombstoned members and and the, quite obvious I might add, sockpuppets controlled by other registered users.

As a group, the log cabin Republicans are certainly less obscure than DU. Freerepublic, though I hate to admit it, is also less obscure than DU and they are a VERY obscure internet message board.

[windansea]

42. true but every little bit helps

1% can sway an election...anyway..no matter...my original post was just a joke...actually agreeing with your premise that the attacks and vetting of Dean (or any candidate) can make them stronger

also...FYI...I am an actual real person...not a sockpuppet...and this is my only identity on DU

[AngryAmish]

28. ding ding ding ding

[stickdog]

29. Attack Dean at your own peril. Lieberman, Gephardt and Kerry have

already completely destroyed their campaigns with their incessant anti-Dean attacks.

Who's next?

[slinkerwink]

30. C-c-c-c-c-c-c-llllllllllark.

cluck.

[w4rma]

35. Many Cons only see "Democrats hate Dean". So they take a look at him.

The attacks are too whacked out and all over the board to do damage, IMHO. They can't find any single thing to harp on and engrain in folks heads, because there isn't anything.