The whole Reverend Wright story is why we need separation of church-state

[SoCalDem]

Churches have been refuges, where like-minded people can go and let their hair down, so to speak. Until the video crazy era, pastors, priests could say anything they wanted, and get an AMEN from the congregants and even though later they might laugh about the nutty thing he said in church, it ended THERE..and it was among friends.

ALL faiths have something that , taken out of context or viewed by the wrong people, could be highly embarrassing for members of the church.

I'm sure that the snake-handling, talking-in-tongues fundamentalist churches would not pass muster, but MANY people in the country who attend those churches probably think they are perfect.

The Catholic church ADVOCATES breaking immigration laws, and other than Lou Dobbs, most people just look the other way because it IS a matter of church doctrine to comfort the afflicted and to help those in need..and who are more in need, than poor people desperate to have a better life?.. And there are many Catholics who willfully break church law by using birth control or having abortions or by divorcing, and yet they still consider themselves catholics..

I would bet my last dollar that there are MANY synagogues that are quite content about the Palestinian-Israel troubles, because their side has the upper hand..and I'm betting that a lot of fund raising goes on inside them..for political pressure to see things their way..Probably a lot of fiery rhetoric happens inside of synagogues.

The mainstream Presbyterian/Methodist/Lutheran churches that so many people remember from the '50s & '60s may be mild and boring, but there are LOTS of Evangelical churches that are quite "animated" in their worship and their message, but most of us don't see inside them because we are not members.

Mormon Temples have some pretty wacky rites too, but they at least had the sense to close them off to all but the faithful..But the secrecy adds to the intrigue and questions.

It should be no surprise, but apparently it IS, that African American churches are different from the churches that most white people attend. Their churches came to be because they were stripped of their own religions and beliefs, and forced to accept ours..and THEN denied access into the same churches as the masters attended.. Is it a surprise than an oppressed people would take the opportunity to express their indignation in their only place of refuge? It was a pretty sure thing that they were the ONLY ones who attended those churches, so why not let it all hang out..

Over the years, the tenor and feel of the churches stayed pretty much the same, because churches that are attended by a small unified group that stuck together for safety would just be that way..

To any outsider, a different way of worshiping can seem odd..creepy, scary, weird, silly..the whole gamut..

That's why religion and politics should stay away from each other..

Politics should be about the COMMONS.. the things that we ALL have to do to get along and be safe, prosperous & healthy..

All the other things should be PRIVATE and off limits. Some of those things, but not all , for sure:

1. what we DO in church
2. what we do in our bedrooms (and with whom)
3. what we do with our bodies
4. who we love
5. who or what we worship

Religion belongs to the PRIVATE part of people's lives..not the PUBLIC part. When we co-mingle them, we run into trouble.
I don't even want to know what church my politicians attend.. I don't care.

All I need to know are a few things:

are they honest?
are they fair?
are they smart?
do they care about all the people, and not just "their" people?

things like that..

what religion was...

Eisenhower?
Truman?
FDR?
Ford?
Nixon?
Johnson?

We knew about Kennedy because back then people feared that he would take orders from the Pope.. Carter made an issue of his "born-again" faith..and of course Georgie blathered on about his faith ..but that's probably more about the fact that he was so uninformed about everything else


Most of the presidents above probably has a "religion" but it was probably just a part of their resume, and no one made a big deal of , or even cared that much.

[no_hypocrisy]

1. By decimating religious neutrality, new problems have ensued.

Religion has become another facet of patriotism. You need it to prove you're a "true" American.

And not any ole religion. With political leaders who have "advisors" who lead christian megachurches and well financed religious nonprofits, there is an impermissible (constitutionally) impramateur towards christianity.

But not just any ole christianity. Fundamentalist, protestant sects that narrowly interpret the Bible in their own vision, without challenge. And this narrow-minded form of christianity has in its vision EVERYBODY being forced to follow its tenents and have the government on all levels assist it in this goal by enacting laws that benefit these religion and burden any other religious or nonreligious group. And these group want us to pay for their policies to be executed with our tax dollars.

How much longer before the Lemon test for religious neutrality is overturned? And the return of compulsory prayer in the classroom, compulsory New Testament studies in public schools, missionary work using public education and funds, public funding of religious schools wholesale, etc.

And more importantly, as religion and government blend as scrambled eggs do, what will it be like as we won't be able to coexist together as a country because we will become fractured sectarian groups in the Balkans, suspicious of one another, avoiding anyone who isn't in our group leading to hostilities. I certainly don't want to live in a country like that.

[Perry Logan]

2. Since the churches have jumped into politics, I say we start taxing the churches right away.

[SoCalDem]

3. I have always been in favor of that..

When I was a kid, the Monsignor lived ina a HUGE house right across the street from the County Club, and had CARPETING in his garage, and kids went to church in the drafty old cathedral without warm coats..and all we heard every Sunday was GIVE GIVE GIVE..:puke:

[Perry Logan]

4. I say no more Christianity till the Christians get together and agree on their story.

[JoFerret]

5. Be scrupulous about removing tax status for a start

Politicking in the pulpit and pamphlets = no tax free status.

Good works? Return government to one that cares for its people.

[izzie]

6. I think what you did not add is that some churches think that

what the Pastor tells the membership to do they do and believe. In the Congressional Church (UCC Wrights church) we were always told to think for our self. So what the Pastor said was not always what you should be doing and thinking God gave you a mind to think and to think over that Pastor and some churches just do not do that. People just do not understand free thinking. Control of peoples minds by the heads of churches has been a battle since Adam and Eve I guess. On top of all this I do think that how we have treated the people of the Middle East has caused the blow back we are now seeing and 911. I see Wright as being right.

[MonkeyFunk]

7. The separation of church and state

has nothing to do with whether the electorate can or should consider the religious beliefs of a candidate when choosing whom to vote for.

If Huckabee had gotten the nomination, there'd be plenty of discussion here about his religious beliefs. That's perfectly fine, and has nothing at all to do with the constitution's establishment clause.

[JTFrog]

8. Separation of Church and State is another big reason I can't support Hillary and

no I did not vote for Kerry in the primaries in '04. I did however vote for him in the GE as I will be forced to do if somehow Hillary steals this thing.

Time for a Prayer Circle
Clinton and Kerry launch an unlikely crusade for religious freedom at work

The problem for Clinton and Kerry—two of the Democratic Party's biggest names and its most likely presidential candidates—is that a broad swath of their left-wing base thinks the bill is a backdoor means to curb individual rights, and has come out hard against it. Heavyweights like the American Civil Liberties Union, Planned Parenthood, and the Human Rights Campaign contend that, in practice, "workplace religious freedom" could allow a nurse to refuse to give the morning-after pill to a rape victim. Or it could allow a school counselor to proselytize on "sins of the homosexual lifestyle" to a gay teen.

"None of us say we don't want religious freedom," says Rachel Laser, of the National Women's Law Center, which opposes the bill. "We just don't want something that would harm women's and gay people's and, for that matter, anyone's civil rights."

Most other Democrats have shied away from signing on to the bill so far. Indeed, among Senate Democrats, Clinton and Kerry stand nearly alone. (Of the five Democratic backers, four, including Senator Charles Schumer, are from the tristate area—where the Catholic and Orthodox Jewish bases are important.)

Clinton's office has been notably quiet about her involvement, perhaps indicating that any credit she hopes to get for pushing the bill would come not from the larger public, but from the kind of select religious interests she's been courting lately as she lays the groundwork for a possible White House run in 2008 (see "God Is a Centrist Democrat," March 2). Her office says the senator will work to fine-tune the bill as it moves to the Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions, where she sits.

http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0514,lombardi,62680,6.html

And now embracing Wright-gate Hillary is damn near encouraging a religious test for the office of the President of the United States. How many more times must she scoff at and tread upon the Constitution before people see her for the DINO she is?



(and a trip down memory lane brought me across this thread, and all I'm saying is that there sure is a world of difference on some folks views of religion in politics during this primary since Wright-gate sprung up.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3757932)

:shrug:


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