Howard Dean JUST SAID on The Daily Show that THEY ARE GOING TO SEAT the FL and MI Delegates!!!

[Up2Late]

AT the CONVENTION! NOT KIDDING!:bounce:

Just said it, and I think he JUST came from DLC meeting!

[DJ13]

1. Ah, but he didnt say they would count on the first ballot

I wouldnt get your hopes up.

[jefferson_dem]

2. I agree with Chairman Dean! Seat them!

...just not based proportionally on the illegitimate votes cast in the bogus primary elections.

[babylonsister]

5. What do you think about Kucinich's plan? Here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=108x130089

[LWolf]

35. I don't care for it, for the reasons mentioned in my response there. nt

[democrattotheend]

21. Go ahead and seat them based on the illegitimate votes

Even if they did that, Clinton still can't overcome Obama's delegate lead.

[FlyingSquirrel]

25. I'd agree if you dropped the delegates down to 50% and no supers.

perhaps also doing a compromise in MI between the Obama 50/50 and the other most likely scenario where he gets the Uncommitted vote.

[Zachstar]

3. 50/50 as anything else is unfair.

[Zynx]

10. That would be pretty absurd.

Then their delegations essentially don't matter. Also, while in Michigan that would appear to possibly represent Michigan Democrats, I can't make a good argument for how 50/50 represents Florida Democrats.

[berni_mccoy]

27. No, what is absurd are the "elections" MI and FL held.

[BeatleBoot]

Lol!

Bite me.

Show up to the election and then your votes will count.

You cannot NOT SHOW UP and then VOTES for UNCOMMITTED get counted for you?

Please.

Utter Fucking Bullshit.

Leaders show up.

Leaders Lead.

[Kittycat]

13. You can't count an election that's been ruled by a judge as void either.

50/50 in MI is the only fair option.

[BeatleBoot]

20. Non-Committed Didn't Even Get 50 % of the Vote. Ain't NO WAY !

See you in Denver!

:hi:

[goclark]

28. Didn't Dean say they would always be seated?

What changed?

[Up2Late]

16. Fair or not, that's not the plan, time to start working the phones...

...you folks have 40 something percent Michigan Uncommitteds to convince to vote for Obama at the convention, good luck to you all.

Seriously, get to work (but try not to piss off the undecideds).

[Cronus Protagonist]

17. That would require a change in the rules

I thought that was not a good thing?

[BeatleBoot]

4. 'Ya Think?

The morons on here who thought that they wouldn't must have been Republican Trolls.

That sums it up.

That - or they weren't around when this shit used to be hashed out at the conventions.

[Joe the Revelator]

9. You're right, it will be hashed out at the convention, where Obama will control the floor

Wanna think he's going to take away his own nomination??

[indimuse]

36. What are you sayin?/

control the floor.?

[dbmk]

39. Pledged delegates control the floor

The floor ultimately decides if the credential comittee can't agree. And thats seated somewhat based on delegate distribution.
Afaik you need 20% there to veto and send a decision to the floor. Meaning that the Obama camp will basically control the decisions.

Could be wrong, but thats how I've understood it.

[sandnsea]

6. Of course they are

After we have a winner and the loser has released their delegates to vote for the winner. Then we'll seat MI & FL.

[writes3000]

7. Yep - Because the SDs have already decided who the nominee will be.

Democratic nominee for President of the United States: Barack Obama.

I'm jumping up and down, too!

[wileedog]

8. Of course they will be seated - when it over.

[Lucky 13]

11. They'll probably be seated last and split evenly.

Or some such arrangement. Dean won't seat Michigan as is with Obama's name not even on the ballot.

[madfloridian]

12. He has BEEN saying that for ages. They will be counted differently

in a way that suits the nominee....or both candidates.

[Up2Late]

30. I don't think that's what he said tonight, but watch for yourself, replay coming up NOW!

On Comedy Central.:applause:

[quakerboy]

14. The question has always been when

There was never any doubt that they would be seated. But is it before or after the presidential nominee has been chosen? Last I heard, the plan was most likely after.

[book_worm]

15. Of course they were going to be seated, this isn't new.

But they aren't going to be seated with any big Hillary advantage if that's what you think.

[Up2Late]

22. That's what I think...

...wasn't it something like 65% for Hillary in Michigan?

Yeah, something like that.

[John Q. Citizen]

18. Of course they will be seated. No body ever said they wouldn't. They just won't go toward

determining the nominee.

In America (and most of the world) we don't recognize elections as legitimate if campaigning isn't allowed and if ballot access isn't open.

This has been a very good example set for state parties to follow the rules they agreed to.

[graycem]

19. He's been saying

they would be seated all along, and he's also been saying they will not affect the outcome of the race. What exactly has changed?

[ruby slippers]

23. I just sent emails to my FL delagates urging them to vote for Obama or

I told them I will vote for McCain or stay home and that I am taking names and that I will not vote for them if they vote for Hillary.

PS I don't really mean it, but it sounded good and may make them think....but then again....

And, if they seat the delegates without Barack being able to campaign in FL, I think that stinks to the highest of political maneuvaring by the dynasty.

God, do I hate living in Florida. Time to move!

[hell-bent]

34. I live in Florida (6 months) and my vote and the 874K votes

for Hillary should just be forgotten? GMAFB! By the way, I live in central Florida and I saw Obama's TV ads on numerous occasions. WTF? No campaigning....Did not see one Clinton ad. You Obamatrons want to win this nomination at any cost to the democratic process. BTW, it was the Florida Repuke legislature than passed the early primary in the state. Why should almost 900K votes for Hillary be thrown out?

[Poll_Blind]

24. HEY THERE- He's said this a couple of times before. Really. The trick is...

...how they are going to be seated.

  That's the news flash. When they say how they're going to be seated.

  This isn't the third time but probably the second that I've seen someone post this as a revelation. It's not. It hasn't been for weeks, maybe over a month. It's all about how much power they're given.

  And don't hold your breath, because it's going to be months, probably to the convention, before we find out in what portions and how much weight they're given.

PB

[livingmadness]

33. Absolutely correct

I watched Dean and he was very careful to add that they would be seated in a way that was fair to each of the campaigns, and the voters etc. There was no indication whatsoever that they would be seated as is. Quite the opposite.

[grannylib]

26. He said it's going to be tricky, since they have to be fair to

the candidates, the voters in Florida and Michigan, and to the states that followed the rules, so I don't think it's as clear cut as it may sound...
I've always felt bad for the voters in Florida and Michigan; it sucks that party leaders screwed them over by knowingly violating rules and knowing the penalty they'd pay for doing so.

[Up2Late]

29. Replay coming up after the break, kick! n/t

:kick:

[gal]

31. He has already said they would be seated...

Just not how. He has also said they would be sat in a way as to NOT determine the nominee.
Which is fair.

[Adelante]

32. You haven't been listening, apparently

Seating them is not at issue.

Did he really say he'd just come from a DLC meeting or do you mean DNC?

[Up2Late]

46. He didn't say DLC or DNC, I just remembered they were having a meeting this week...

...and it appeared he was just back from it, so I was just guessing about that. I posted the video link below this post, check it out and report back what you think he was talking about, it was a very choppy conversation.

[mmonk]

37. There should be a way to seat delegates from both states.

The difficulty comes from the fact nobody wants to work on solutions on methodology.

[indimuse]

38. The chants of “The delegate count!

Thursday, May 01, 2008
New Math

The chants of “The delegate count! She can’t beat the delegate count!” get more frantic by the minute, mostly because they become less relevant to the General Election outcome with every new revelation about The Precious. Obamacans think they can win with simple math, 1 + 1 + a whole bunch of people we don’t count and – Yay! --- we have our candidate. They refuse to acknowledge that a presidential election is more akin to an algebraic equation, with variables and unknowns getting factored in when you least expect it.

One of the questions Hillary answered in the Indianapolis Star interview was a math question, and she gave it a proper algebraic answer. (Our girl’s good with numbers, after all.) When asked about Obama’s allegedly insurmountable pledged delegate count lead, Hillary responded in two ways: first that she is ahead in popular vote count because she won Florida and Michigan and, second, that voters regarded vote counts as the basis of legitimacy, and the remaining primary states darn well wanted to have their votes counted. She emphasized the legitimacy of the Florida vote in particular and then threw down the political math challenge to the Obamacans. Are you really going to try to pick the nominee without counting Florida and Michigan? How do you think you can get the necessary Electoral College votes from them in November if you don’t allow them their primary votes now?

With every poll, every interview, every primary, it becomes clear that Hillary is the strongest Democratic candidate, the person who actually is going to attract a significant number of the moderate, old-line “Rockefeller” Republicans’ vote. So, what is up with this game of political chicken? Can’t Dr. Dean count? What is the gamesmanship going on here?

Florida and Michigan must be seated. It is GE suicide if they aren’t. This does not automatically give Hillary the nomination, but she takes back the position of front runner if they are counted before the other primaries are done. It changes the calculations of the voters, and the Obamacans are desperate to prevent that from happening.
To have them seated and be allowed to vote and have Obama be the nominee, The Precious must win 2214 delegates (BTD says 2209) before the convention to prevent Florida and Michigan from affecting the outcome. This might also include counting his delegates from Florida on the presumption they will be seated.
This is not going to happen, especially after this week’s news.
As long as Obama cannot win 2214 without Florida and Michigan, the pressure continues to mount to include them precisely because they will and should affect the outcome. It’s called voting for those of you unsure on the concept of democracy.
Deans dilemma is he has three outcomes, none of which are acceptable:
Refuse to seat Florida and Michigan, pray Obama can edge up to 2025, and declare him the winner because FL & MI broke the rules. As I said back in March, this truncated nomination will not be seen as legitimate by the voters. Those two states will go red in the GE.
Seat those states and take the risk that the super delegates will bolt en masse to Hillary, eviscerating claims of Obama’s support and inevitability. It will also send the party to victory in November.
Force Hillary out of the race so that Obama is the only one left standing and the remaining voting can be called off. This will also result in a GE loss, but it would avoid a convention fight, or so Dr. Dean hopes. This is the only strategy left with a prayer for The Precious, and is why we see such bellowing and threats aimed at Hillary.

So, why? At this point, I’m not sure there is any way for Dean to get himself out of this mess, and he’s probably decided he might as well be shot for a sheep as a lamb. But what was the original calculation that has ended up with deficits in the balance sheet and red ink everywhere? There is no way to know for certain, but I think the idea was that any Democrat was going to win the general, so it was the best time to run a relatively weak candidate. I also think the original plan was that Edwards would be the front runner, handily neutralizing Clinton and then we would have an Edwards/Obama ticket. When you look at the early polling, however, a funny thing happened on the way to the elite coronation – Hillary was (and remains) the most popular among Democrats. Edwards was not different enough for him to get any traction. The leadership threw its weight behind Obama in order to take down Clinton and preserve their power. With the full force of the Stevensonian wing and the MSM, it was almost enough.

Hillary fought back as only a Clinton can, refusing to succumb to the pressure. Now Obama, an insubstantial candidate at the best of times, is demonstrating the fallacy of Dean’s original calculation. The Precious can’t get the numbers to win the election, and looks likely to fall short with the nomination as well.

So, why does Dean persist in this course, to the detriment of the party? We may never know, but he should have known better when it came to Michigan and Florida. He knows how to do the math. He should have made his candidate stand up and take the risk to demonstrate before it was too late whether he could win in a direct election. The fully legitimate primary votes of those states are necessary to finishing the equation of a Democratic win in November.

If a candidate will not stand up for those states in the primary, how can the party expect those states to stand up for the candidate in November?

It just doesn’t add up.
Anglachel

[lojasmo]

40. Follow along: D ENN C Not DLC. EOM

[olkaz]

42. He would have been covered in slime in the interview if he has just come from the DLC.

Ba dum ching.

[lojasmo]

41. They'll be seated to nominate Obama by accliamation. EOM

[Up2Late]

43. The Dean on The Daily Show video is up at SpikeTV!

Here's the direct link: <http://www.spike.com/episode/27209/st/2976993>

And here's the link to the Daily Show's page at SpikeTV: <http://www.spike.com/show/17676>

Btw, even though SpikeTV is a Viacom website, the site is not fully "family friendly" or "Work safe."

[Tommy_Carcetti]

44. Finally.

About time, Dr. Dean.

Disenfranchisement is not a hallmark of the Democratic Party. Leave that to the bastards on the other side.

[Hoof Hearted]

45. He's trying to save his ass. It's a little late though.