Let's see what the critics had to say in 1992 about the movie The War Room.

[Exilednight]

In The Washington Post's review of the film in 1993, critic Desson Howe referred to "a Mickey Kantor comment about the people of Indiana (when it looks as though Clinton's ahead in Dan Quayle's state)."

And a 1995 story in the Sydney Morning Herald said that "As for the good folk of Indiana, they are still recovering from the 1993 documentary War Room, which revealed the grim truth behind the Clinton election campaign. It showed Mr Kantor bursting in on election night to tell other campaign staffers that incredibly, Mr Clinton was doing well even in Republican Indiana. 'And those people are s---!' he declared breathlessly."

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/05/the-mystery-of.html

[leftofcool]

1. Poor Trapper

It's dead. He's off eating a sandwich and just doesn't know it yet

[JackORoses]

17. it's not dead. it's just getting warmed up.

Kantor and the direcor Pennebaker have already contadicted themselves.

Kantor said:
Kantor today denied to the Huffington Post that he had called Hoosiers "s---." "I was talking about the polling and not the people," Kantor said.

Pennebaker said:
As for the "Those people are s---" line, Pennebaker told Smith that Kantor had said, "he says they must be s---ing in the White House."

So was it the Pollsters or the White House?

I think you know the answer to that... It was the Hoosiers.

[JoFerret]

69. So - revised that opinion yet?

?

[lapfog_1]

2. I wonder why Kantor didn't sue them back then...

we wonders we wonders...

[Hissyspit]

3. They misheard it then, too.

Kantor is talking about the White House.

[Exilednight]

4. Kantor didn't complain then. n/t

[newmajority]

5. LIES !!!!1111!!!!!

IT'S OBVIOUS THAT SOME TERRAIST LOVING BAROQUE HUSSEIN OSAMA SUPORTER WENT BACK IN TIME AND CHANGED THOSE NEWSPAPER REVIEWS!!!!11!1!!! THOSE MUSLAMOFASCIST LOVERS WILL STOP AT NUTHING TO KEEP OUR GODESS OF WAR FROM WINNING THE PREZIDENCY SHE EARNED BY BEING MARRYED TO BILL CLINTOON!!!1!!!!1!1!! THIS IS A HUGH SERIES EXPOZURE OF OSAMA CAMPAIGN TRICKS!!!1!!!!!111!

[Lady-Damai]

8. LOL.....n/t

[Lucky 13]

66. Some Obama supporter has the power to go back in time?!? All I got was this stupid pony!

And a PHENOMENAL nominee.

GOBAMA!!

[madmom]

6. If this is an exact quote, it sounds to me like he was referring to the republicans. IMO

[Buzz Clik]

7. Gee, I hope this doesn't interfere with Hillary's crucial campaign in Indiana.

:sarcasm:

[ORDagnabbit]

9. and when you listen with headphones you hear the other comment quite unmistakably as well.

[Quixote1818]

10. How did that fake Youtube video get blased back in time?

:rofl:

[suston96]

11. The movie's director has spoken out about the YouTube version......

May 02, 2008

Pennebaker: Clip Doctored

I just spoke to D.A. Pennebaker, the director of "The War Room," who said his film had been doctored to produce a widely-viewed YouTube clip.

In a clip from his film on the 1992 Clinton campaign, posted to YouTube today, Clinton advisor Mickey Kantor is -- according to subtitles -- seen referring to Indiana residents with an expletive and to his colleague George Stephanopolous with a racial slur.

"He does not say that. He does not say that," said Pennebaker, after viewing the clip.

He said the initial expletive referred to the anticipated reaction in the Bush White House to the fact that Ross Perot's polling numbers were holding strong.

"What he says is he’s surprised Perot’s numbers are holding," said Pennebaker in a brief phone interview. "He says they must be shi**ing in the White House."

The second expletive, he said, appeared to have been entirely fabricated, with new audio dubbed onto the original movie.

Look at the original movie linked hereabouts and you can see that the YouTube version has been fabricated.

[olkaz]

12. This makes five pastes.

Keep on going.

[suston96]

19. 5 pastes? How many threads are there trying to promote the fabricated YouTube clip?

Instead of counting my pastes, why don't you argue against what I paste?

[olkaz]

20. I am. In multiple threads.

And I don't even paste my content each time!

Weird, right?

[Exilednight]

22. This isn't about the "fabricated" youtube clip, this is about the original..............

the original does not have the part with the "white n----r" comment, but does have the comment about Hoosiers being shit.

[demwing]

26. I've listened to the original. You are wrong

The audio is there. If its fake, its faked on the original DVD.

[Exilednight]

33. The original DVD is faked? So now you're accusing the director? n/t

[demwing]

68. You know thats not what I meant

I'm saying that since the origianl can not have been faked, whatever we hear on the original must be accurate.

[Hissyspit]

34. The audio doesn't have to be faked. People are mishearing Kantor

because its very quiet.

He was talking about the White House.

Let it go, people.

[Quixote1818]

15. Both Youtube versions are identical and one is directly from the movie

The only way one was doctored was the subtitles. However, the audio was not changed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_wKOgMNs0U

[suston96]

23. And I repeat, the director of the original movie has spoken. I have been repeating his words....

....and will continue to do so.

He clearly and precisely narrates what the actors in his movie said. And what they said is nothing like what the fabricated clip or the careless and inaccurate writers in 1995 stated.

But keep talking it up. It will get to Obama and then he can stutter and stammer his way out of a clearly fabricated smear which will be attributed directly to his campaign.

[demwing]

27. The director doesn't clear up anything

He just states his opinion, and pretends its a fact.

[demwing]

28. The director doesn't clear up anything

He just states his opinion, and pretends its a fact.

[Radical Activist]

70. The Director is a friend of the Clintons.

Of course he covers their asses.

[mkultra]

38. i watched the original

Kantor says "those people are shit, excuse me".

As for teh second item, i think its to hard to make out.
Original reviews from when the film came out quote Kantor as referring to folks from Indiana as shit.

Its a mixed bag.

[meow mix]

13. K&R

[Warren Stupidity]

14. WaPo rewrote their archives to match the doctored video.

That is obvious isn't it?

[WeDidIt]

16. Kill that Air National guard Story

Give Dan Rather a fake copy of the real documents and the story will be about the forgery and not the truth underlying the story.

Sounds familiar.

[suston96]

18. Got a link to the Sydney Morning Herald? Sydney, Australia? 1995? Very funny. But actually -

- here is what the director of that movie says TODAY:

May 02, 2008

Pennebaker: Clip Doctored

I just spoke to D.A. Pennebaker, the director of "The War Room," who said his film had been doctored to produce a widely-viewed YouTube clip.

In a clip from his film on the 1992 Clinton campaign, posted to YouTube today, Clinton advisor Mickey Kantor is -- according to subtitles -- seen referring to Indiana residents with an expletive and to his colleague George Stephanopolous with a racial slur.

"He does not say that. He does not say that," said Pennebaker, after viewing the clip.

He said the initial expletive referred to the anticipated reaction in the Bush White House to the fact that Ross Perot's polling numbers were holding strong.

"What he says is he’s surprised Perot’s numbers are holding," said Pennebaker in a brief phone interview. "He says they must be shi**ing in the White House."

The second expletive, he said, appeared to have been entirely fabricated, with new audio dubbed onto the original movie.

[olkaz]

21. Hahahaha, that's the second time you pasted that INTO THIS THREAD ALONE!

Holy lord you are desperate.

This is really getting hilarious.

[suston96]

24. There is a perfectly good reason for that - nesting or sub-threads -

- many posters don't read the entire thread.

But what about arguing about what I post? You are the desperate one. Your wet dream went down the toilet and now you are left with counting a poster's pastes. LMAO!

[olkaz]

30. Wet dream?

I'm just having a blast watching you guys have to be on the defensive over this.

It really is funny, especially after watching a month and a half straight of 100% Reverend Wright.

Turnabout is fair play, you know.

[Fermezlabush]

25. Sure he did! They just voted his guy in against expectations - why not slam them?

:wtf:
It's not like Clinton didn't have enemies before Hillary started to run. What sense does it makes? From a civil,rights activist?

[4_Legs_Good]

29. For Chrissake, can some just watch the freaking movie and verify or debunk this???

It's a common release! I have it at home sitting on the shelf. It's even apparently subtitled.

He said it or he didn't say it. What's in the freaking film? Why are we relying on a YouTube clip that may or may not have been doctored!?!@?!

It's a f*cking fantastic film, btw.

David

[Hissyspit]

32. I have listened to the clip dozens of times with excellent earpods over & over,

the full scene with full context, with my eyes open and my eyes closed.

Kantor is without doubt referring to the White House reaction to the new poll numbers favoring Clinton over Bush in Republican states.

To Carvelle: "Those people are shitting..."

To Stephanopolous: "How would you like to be in the White House now?"

[Exilednight]

35. And I hear "These people are shit.". It doesn't make much sense to say shitting. n/t

[Hissyspit]

37. Yes it does.

The people in the White House are shitting themselves over the new numbers from Indiana and Texas.

Let it go. There is nothing there.

I can't stand Clinton and know there's nothing there.

[Exilednight]

40. That's not what he says. Good attempt at spin. This is exactly what it says............

"Look at Indiana, wait wait, look at Indiana.......

42-40. It doesn't matter if we win, those people are shit. Oh, excuse me."

[jmg257]

41. Bull shit. He says ".we win...those people are shitting...oh excuse me..???..in the white house"...

"how would you like to be the one trying to ?block? this ?wound??"

[Exilednight]

43. I don't know where you get shitting from. Just before he says "we win".............

he says "it doesn't matter if we win."

It doesn't make sense to say "it doesn't matter if we win those people are shitting, oh excuse me."

That makes for piss poor English and a very lame excuse.

[jmg257]

48. He is talking about the people in the white house - they SHOULD be quite shaken up that they are

trailing in Indiana (VP's home state), & tied in Texas, etc. It makes great sense. Especially if the follow-up comment was along the lines of "how would you like to be trying to SPIN this one"? Or something similar.

[Exilednight]

49. What? So now you have to pretend to know what he says afterwards...........

even if you put the DVD on subtitles it says "inaudible" after he says "excuse me".

The subtitles don't says "shitting", they say "shit".

[jmg257]

52. Don't pretend what he says afterwards..just KNOW what I hear/see and what I am not so sure about.

He DEFINITELY says "doesn't matter if we win", & "those people are shitting...u/oh excuse me...", & "in the white house", and DEFINITELY says "how would you like to be trying to..." Other then that, I just know what it sounds like - (i.e. the end ain't "worthless white...)".

[Exilednight]

53. You know he says "shitting" and I know he says "shit" since that is what I clearly hear. n/t

[jmg257]

54. Agreed. Especially since "shit" is a subset of "shitting" :)

and "shitting" makes sense with what he says after the interruption about "in the white house".

[Exilednight]

58. Where did you go to school?

Shit, in the context he used it, is an idiom. Shitting, in the context you believe, would make it an interjection.

I don't know where in the hell you come up with subset.

[jmg257]

71. "Subset", as in a smaller part of..."shit" - a small part of "shitting". See now?

So you were right - he DID say "shit", as in "shitTING"

[4_Legs_Good]

56. You know, saying "Those people are shit", doesn't really make much sense

I mean, come on. I dunno, these guys don't particularly hate Indiana, do they? I don't believe it.

Sorry, I'm a HUGE Obama supporter, and not only does this seem much ado about nothing bordering on the absurd, but I just don't buy it. These people are politicians trying to get votes, why would they say something silly like that.

CONVERSELY, I can totally undestand why some guy would watch the movie, hear what he thinks he heard, freak out, put it on YouTube thinking he's found gold. So I really don't buy that whoever put it up is an evil manipulator either.

David

[Exilednight]

59. It doesn't make sense to say "shtting" either.

"those people are shitting, oh, excuse me." It's not like he graduated under Bush's every child left behind program. I also find it amazing that people are willing to dismiss what others have heard over 12 years ago.

[4_Legs_Good]

65. Yeah, but he knows he's being filmed.

I dunno, I feel odd cursing when I'm on film or around kids and people I don't know. Again, politicians who know this stuff could come back to haunt them.

When Bill Clinton curses on the campaign trail, MSNBC makes a big deal of it.

It's actually funny the way we live in this protective bubble that supposes that public figures don't curse and when they do "OMG!!!".

Anyway, I can buy "shitting" more than "those people are shit."

Again, though, I haven't verified it in the movie yet (which I will do promptly upon returning home).

I don't think this kinda thing will hurt the Clinton campaign much anyway, but they MIGHT be able to bluff a "Obama will sink to this fraud" bologna in order to cut down a few more votes in IN.


The "heard over 12 years ago" that you mention is from the review? Now that's the best evidence I've heard so far, and one of the only things that makes me seriously consider it.

David

P.S. Youtube blocked at work, so I'm totally screwed for now.

[Hissyspit]

42. He says shitting. You can see his mouth just barely make the final syllable.

I'm not spinning. I can't stand Hillary Clinton anymore.

I voted for Barack Obama in the NC primary. I just don' t like seeing this ridiculousness on DU.

[Exilednight]

47. I don't see his mouth move after he says "shit". Shit is the last syllable his mouth forms ........

saying "oh, excuse me."

[Hissyspit]

50. Say 'shit' and 'shitting.' What does your mouth do?

It's a very subtle difference. Especially in an informal conversation. But it's there, and it's there with Kantor.

This is much ado about nothing.

[Exilednight]

51. I went to the mirror to actually see. If I say "shit" my mouth forms a semi-smile...........

if I say "shitting" my lips take on a half-pouting form. Two distinct shapes.

[Hissyspit]

60. Oh good god.

If you say it fast in a sentence within an informal conversation, leading into another word, and realizing you're swearing in front of a documentary, the syllable would probably almost dissappear for you, too. Believe what you want. I give up.

Kantor was talking about the White House reacting to the new Clinton poll numbers in Republican states, and he reacts in exactily the way you would expect him to - THE WHITE HOUSE IS SHITTING THEIR PANTS.

[Exilednight]

61. Where do you get "The White House is shitting their pants"? On the DVD it says............

inaudible after he says "excuse me". I don't care how good anyone's hearing is, but you can't make out what he says after "excuse me".

[Hissyspit]

62. It's true that it is even quieter, but he says something to George to the effect of

How would younlike to be in the White House war room or the White House right now. Which is what you would expect him to say, since they were running a campaign against George H. W. Bush and Dan Quayle. It certainly was not 'white niggers.'

Just because subtitles on a DVD say some is inaudible doesn't mean it is for everyone. It just means it was to the subtitler.

[Exilednight]

63. I know the "white n-----s" video is doctored. The part I'm talking about is "those people are .....

shit". The subtitles then pick back up and say something about "how'd you like to be the one to lose Texas." or something to that effect, which is referring to Bush possibly losing a repug strong hold and his home state.

[4_Legs_Good]

39. That sounds pretty definitive. Are you watching the movie or the YouTube

Have you compared the sound from the YouTube with the movie?

If the movie is so clear, then the next question is to the doctoring.

Not that any of this really matters, it's a damned YouTube! But it woudl be interesting to know for sure. Weird how this viral stuff really affects things.

David

[Hissyspit]

46. The sound on the YouTube clip is amplified not doctored, best I can tell.

But the amplification causes distortion. And the subtitling on the viral YouTube clip is leading.

[meow mix]

31. K&R

[tabasco]

36. Those lawyers are going to have to sue these newspapers now!

And everyone else with good hearing!

[Zachstar]

45. Indeed!

[Zachstar]

44. Quite interesting.

[ecdab]

55. I'm fairly sure Kantor's intention wasn't to say that the people of Indiana

were shit, but it sure sounds like that is what he said. I think he caught himself mid-swear because of the camera, and a reference to the people in the white house came out sounding like a reference to the people of Indiana.

I would expect that Obama will not touch this - but many of Obama's supporters will spread it around (not all - I'm an Obama support, and unless something more comes out - I ain't touching it). After the whole "cling" thing was taken out of context and beaten to death by Hillary supporters many will feel fine about taking this one out for a test drive and seeing if it has any traction - I doubt it does.

[JoFerret]

57. I enjoyed it very much back then (1993)

Captured the essence of a great and invigorating campaign. I can assure you that if I had heard anybody using racist slurs I would not have felt that way. That would have been antithetical to the whole ethos of that campaign and very shocking. Whatever their faults may or may not be that is not who the Clintons are nor their campaigns. So - did not happen is my take. just racial divisiveness. I would check out some sleazy GOP group for the source although i have (obviously) no evidence of any such thing.

[4_Legs_Good]

67. Agreed on the film

I particularly actually liked the bit near the end when Clinton won, and George S. comes out and gives a little speech about the meaning of the win, which, maybe for the first time in the film, we actually see a sentiment of something beyond politics. Most of the rest is about the game, the win, the tactics. Only then to we really see what it's all about, and it's very interesting that in the whole sport of the campaign, they didn't completely lose sight of the reason behind it.

At least, that's my recollection, and, along with the "biggest exercise in masturbation in history" line, is the most memorable part of the film.

David

[JoFerret]

73. Reminds us of the excitement of that 1992 campaign

I think some Obama followers have some of that same feeling.

But it is too bad if they see a need to trash those who won in 1992.

[Lucky 13]

64. WELL WELL WELL

Interesting indeed.

[meow mix]

72. K&R