If you missed it earlier, turn on CSPAN now.... Obama's speech coming on....

[scheming daemons]

Watch CSPAN for the next 45 minutes.


....and remember what a Democrat sounds like.... what inspiration sounds like..... what WINNING sounds like.



"That's MY Patriotism!"

[Muttocracy]

1. and for those tuning in right this second, that's HRC shaking hands on the way out

The music will change dramatically in a few minutes. I'm hoping someone here will know who was behind the music at the event.

[Triana]

2. Just listened. Awesome! n/t

[Tactical Progressive]

3. Let's all pretend he didn't just trash his friend and mentor on national TV

to try to get out of a tough spot of explaining 20 years of his church beliefs.

Let's all pretend we're watching an honorable man giving a speech.

[scheming daemons]

4. Hey Metheun.... I thought you were suspended for 2 weeks.... welcome back!

[Tactical Progressive]

5. Not mp, sorry.

There are alot of us who see Obama for who he is.

[scheming daemons]

6. "see Obama for who he is".... Which I'm sure in your circles translates to "scary black man"

[Tactical Progressive]

8. Gee, you sound pretty racist

But Obama's betrayal of his friend and mentor crosses all color and gender lines.

[scheming daemons]

13. LOL.... Like you give a damn about Rev Wright's feelings......

...you're just pissed because Obama took your Rev Wright toy away from you....

...and off the table for the rest of the race.

[Tactical Progressive]

19. Off the table!? Are you insane?

Never mind that last question. You probably just forgot that there are Republicans in this race, even though it was their little prank that started all of this. They are going to have a field day with this from both sides.

And let's not forget who doesn't give a damn about Rev Wright's feelings, or his reputation. It's not me.

[scheming daemons]

20. By mid-summer, 90% of Americans will roll their eyes at the subject of "Rev Wright"

It's old news.... and it will be a worthless strategy in the fall.

Everyone who could be negatively affected by it have already moved.


It's like bringing up Lewinsky for Bill.... it has no bite any more.

[Tactical Progressive]

22. It won't be Rev Wright

It will be Obama's 20 years in that church.

And throwing his Rev under the bus for what Obama was part of will be what people remember about this episode.

Trust me SD, this isn't going to be remembered positively, and it shouldn't be.
Obama hasn't behaved well in this episode.

[scheming daemons]

23. Cutting Wright loose was a Sister Souljah moment... and it was the moment Obama won the Presidency..

...you'll see.

[Tactical Progressive]

31. Those are two completely different things

One was standing up for oneself against an attacker with an attitude.

This was attacking a long-time friend to avoid having to face a problem.

[scheming daemons]

33. Sister Souljah was about Bubba separating himself from Jesse Jackson.....

...it really had not much to do with Sister Souljah herself. She was just the tool Bubba used.



Tuesday, Obama separated himself from Rev Wright. In the long run, that helps him immensely... and is a net positive.

[Tactical Progressive]

36. Jesse Jackson?

I don't remember it that way, but it was a long time ago.

Refresh my memory - Why did Bill want to separate himself from Jesse?

[Tactical Progressive]

24. deleted - wrong place

[VolcanoJen]

7. Let's pretend that Clinton isn't embracing her enemies for short-term gain

Let's live in Fantasy Land. Let's buy a condo on Space Mountain.

At least I know who the Democrat in this race is.

[democrattotheend]

10. Don't have to pretend

I do believe he is an honorable man, and that's been his biggest downfall in this campaign. He tried to do the right thing by initially refusing to disown Wright, and he got burned for it. Wright left him no choice but to do what he did. I just hate the media for demanding that he denounce his pastor and held him accountable for things someone else said. He's the only candidate who's been repeatedly deemed guilty by association, and the double standard is sickening.

[Tactical Progressive]

17. He started off disdaining his friend and mentor,

There was no 'right thing' in it at all. The media then helped him get past it as quickly as they could.
'He said he wasn't there for that sermon. Case closed!!!'

Then when Publicans brought it up, he shoved his friend and mentor in front of a bus. After Wright had said nothing about Obama other than as a politician he has other considerations on what he can say, unlike a pastor. Which is exactly true and didn't denigrate Obama in the least.

Then Obama trashed him on national TV. Don't even try to pretend otherwise; we all saw it.

There's nothing honorable in what Obama did to Wright.

[scheming daemons]

18. Yeah sure.... now you're a defender of Rev Wright.... whatever...

[Marnieworld]

9. THANK YOU

ive been dying to see this

[Tactical Progressive]

11. Is that anything like 'the fierce urgency of Obama's personal ambition'?

I'm pretty sure that's not what Martin Luther King meant when he said that.

[scheming daemons]

12. LOL.... A Hillary supporter talking about someone ELSE'S personal ambition.... . how cute....

[VolcanoJen]

16. ROFL ROFL ROFL

You can't really be serious, can you?

Hillary's not ambitious, is that your argument? Hillary isn't politically expedient and opportunistic in a short-term manner?

[Tactical Progressive]

21. I'm not delusional enough not to notice Obama's extreme ambition

There's only one group of people I can think of that think this guy is in any way, shape or form, interested in anything but what's good for Obama.

Hillary has ambition. And she's spent a lifetime in politics helping the right people out, to earn her ambition's desire.

I can think of another high-profile politician right now who hasn't done anything of the sort.

[VolcanoJen]

35. And all of these people behind him, all this enthusiasm.....

... what are we, to you? Just cultists signing on to drink the kool-aid?

I've been on this site since day one, Inauguration 2001, and I'm reduced to the lowest common Democratic denominator. It's downright depressing, listening to you lot.

Hillary:Ambitious = OK, the awesome, really great.
Obama:Ambitious = Hasn't done anything, too new, not his turn, we can all just wait.

The main reason I couldn't support Hillary from the beginning is that I never really felt she was "fighting" for "us." I'm still there, even more so. Every day, she just ratifies my decision. I do thank her for that much, I guess.

[Tactical Progressive]

40. Who said he doesn't have supporters?

Listen Jen, it would take a long, long post for me to describe what I think about the Obama supporter phenomenon, and you probably wouldn't like most of it. For here I'll just say I don't think it started out with bad intentions, and I was really rooting for Obama as I've long wanted a black man to be President, for all kinds of the right reasons. But the behavior it has spawned has been abominable from the start, for alot of reasons not wholly the fault of Obama's truest supporters, but adopted by them anyway.

As to this point, I don't think you have the slightest claim on ambition framing. Hillary's ambition has been portrayed - by the right and the media to start with, long before Obama, but again adopted in its ugliness by Obamanation - as a reflection of the broader context that women with ambition are ugly, backstabbing bitches, while men are altruistic practicioners of the general good. It's one thing that is really going to backlash against Obama, thanks to people like Matthews and Olbermann. It deserves to be brought up about Obama if nothing but to balance the scales just a little bit. And let's not forget it was one of Obama's earliest smears against Hillary playing to that ugly stereotype.

Hillary has been fighting for us for decades, dear. She doesn't have to make you feel it because you don't want to feel it anyway. Obama has done virtually nothing for anyone, though he likes to pretend he has. It isn't his turn, and not in some silly, superficial take a number at the deli-counter way, but to depths so much more substantial than that that you probably don't even have the background to understand. Similar to how it is way past time for an African-American President in ways so far past the well we haven't had an AA President yet so it's time we did. There are real, huge, historical, deeply cultural reasons for whose turn it is for both, and it's not Obama's.

You have gotten tagged as cultists across the net long before I ever said anything because of the ways you act. It goes beyond 'everything in the cult is good, everything outside the cult is bad'. Obama supporters have gone directly to 'everything in the cult is godly, everything outside the cult is evil', with all of the childish perspective it takes to achieve that kind of thinking.

You have not the slightest idea of how much resentment and bitterness Obama's supporter's unbelieveably ugly behaviors have generated. My guess is that they have destroyed him three times over.

[VolcanoJen]

43. Oh, my goodness.

For context and background, I'm a Gen X working-class white woman Democratic party loyalist/activist. Cut my teeth on the Dukakis campaign as a paid staffer, my first big show, and yes, I was young then, but I'm certainly not now.

Did you really just call me "dear"? Did you honestly finally admit that "it isn't his turn" and that you were once enthusiastic to have a "black man as President"? Did you really just say "Obama has done virtually nothing for anyone" and that he's "pretending" he has?

I have never been spoken to in such a condescending manner by anyone in seven years on this board as I just experienced from you. Wow. You spelled it all out, you're all I've been talking about, and I totally get you. It's kind of refreshing to see such honesty. In a way, I thank you for it, even though I am quite shocked and taken aback. There's no point in being gentle with me, since I really do want to know where you're coming from.

"You probably don't even have the background to understand." Apparently, you believe I want to vote for Obama because he's an African-American. OK. I get it. I hear you, so very loud, so very clear. You represent in one post everything I and my friends have been talking about for months now. This is the best cut-and-paste I could have ever hoped for.

"You have not the slightest idea."

Yet we're the elitists, Obama supporters. We're the cultists. All of this while being preached to by Clintonistas telling us we have no idea, dear, that it isn't his turn, that he's done virtually nothing, that we're sexist and look down upon women with ambition (while being women with ambition, of course).

If anything, this is an epic battle for the heart and soul of the Democratic Party. Bring it. We're going to fight you for it, we're going to beat this down and street-fight this out, all while dealing with the death throes and drama. Now, more than ever. Thanks for making it crystal-clear.

As if I didn't already know it. Dear. It just breaks my heart that you would even begin to speak to young, fresh voters the way you just spoke to me, while trying to build a majority. Please tell me you're not in local Democratic outreach, because had I been approached with your crossed-arm attitude when I first reached out to this party, I'd be an independent to this day. Thankfully, I was never treated in such a manner back in the day.

Yowch. And to think of all those sleepless nights working for the Clintons, day in, day out, only to be met with this when I decided to leave the fold. It's just epic, isn't it?

[cliffordu]

38. I WANT someone who has a fierce ambition -

and the fucking chops to back it up.

He just beat the shit out of one of the most fearsome political machines ever assembled.

He is a Constitutional scholar and a street organizer.

She represented Wallmart.

All that business acumen and she's broke.

He's making more than he spends, from koolaid drinkers like me.

I want the smartest fucker in the room to give me my country back.


Gobama.

[Nedsdag]

30. You have a lot of nerve knocking Obama's "personal ambition."

Does the name Lani Guinier ring a bell?

It should because she was thrown under the bus because of "personal ambition" by her so-called friends the Clintons.

[Tactical Progressive]

34. Lani wasn't a 20-year close personal friend and mentor of the Clintons

that Bill was trying to disavow any belief in or affinity towards.

Not really that similar.

[EFerrari]

14. Darn, I'm going to miss it this time, too.

Is there anywhere we can stream it after the fact? :(

[Muttocracy]

32. here are some links

Obama: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5793048

C-span is replaying both of them again at 5:30am eastern time, and they're pretty good about getting video up the next day.

[EFerrari]

44. Thank you! n/t

[Vote2008]

15. On meet the press on Sunday also!

[Tactical Progressive]

25. Obama is going populist tonight

to try to cut into Hillary's appeal.

Problem is, every speech seems a little less rousing, a little more like politician talk.

Not bad, just less inspiring each time out.

(Yes, that's a halfway compliment for Obama from me.)

[scheming daemons]

26. A) Watch the last 10 minutes B) with 1.5 million donors, averaging $100..he's ALWAYS been populist

[Tactical Progressive]

27. deleted - wrong place again

duh!

[scheming daemons]

29. Listening comprehension problem by you: "I was against this war in 2002, 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7..."

...

[Tactical Progressive]

28. Did Obama just say he voted to extend the Iraq War in 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 & 2007?

because that's not quite accurate. He wasn't in the Senate in 2003 and 2004.

He only voted to extend the war in 2005, 2006, 2007 & 2008.

Being so anti-war and all.

[malik flavors]

39. My God, get over it. Read a book, play a video game, do something. You take this far too seriously

If I didn't know better I'd think you were Chelsea Clinton or some other close relative of Hillary's.

Why can't people just support their candidate without shitting all over everything else?

These are the people that will vote republican if their candidate isn't nominated, despite that fact that both dems have the exact same policies. It's just nutty.

[Tactical Progressive]

42. Wait a minute

Tell me you didn't just say:

"Why can't people just support their candidate without shitting all over everything else?"

as an Obama supporter.



And yes, I'm one of those people, for reasons you mostly wouldn't understand.

[BenDavid]

37. I heard him in 04 and knew then he was a fraud and a fake.

Plus, I found he to be a bigot too.....

[Tactical Progressive]

41. I didn't realize he was a fake until the Primary started

But it hasn't been to hard to figure out since then, even with the media protecting and promoting him every way they can.

How did you catch on so early?